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pro audio and the macbook...
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fisherKing
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:11 PM
 
(posted since there will never be a 12" powerbook replacement..!)

i need a new laptop, waited for october 14. i want small & light, so the macbook is a possibility. but...i do audio.
i was going to get the apogee duet (apple's preferred interface, and designed to work with logic); but it's a firewire device.

i DO have a usb interface i can use for now. but...also, no 7200rpm drive option. can i do 'pro' audio work on a 5400rpm drive? (i could easily swap the drive out myself, i guess...but annoying apple won't sell this to me with one).

am just disappointed with the 'no-more-choice' philosophy; and i do not like glossy screens! apple:
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Eug
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:13 PM
 
So, is this a rant, or a real question?

Anyways, you might be better off getting a refurb 2.1 or 2.4 GHz whiteBook and swapping the drive out.

Or else, you'll have to succumb to the upsell and get a MacBook Pro.
     
analogika
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:14 PM
 
I'm not sure what you're asking: There is no "pro" audio that doesn't either use Firewire or an ExpressCard.

The internal 5400 RPM drive will be okay for moderate tracking, as long as it's not too full.

But why would you care? Rather than pay Apple's premium, just try it out, and if it doesn't cut the mustard for your needs, just walk down to the nearest corner computer store and buy a 7200 RPM yourself for $90 and spend another $2 on a screwdriver and be done with it.
     
fisherKing  (op)
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
So, is this a rant, or a real question?

Anyways, you might be better off getting a refurb 2.4 GHz whiteBook and swapping the drive out.

Or else, you'll have to succumb to the upsell and get a MacBook Pro.
it's a rant, AND a question!

will probably go for the new 13", use my usb interface, and swap the drive IF i have problems with logic.

am an apple hater today (and for the first time...)
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
analogika
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:19 PM
 
I've decided that I'm not going to bother until the second revision.

These machines aren't *that* much faster than my current 2GHz blackbook, and the bigger issue than speed, to me, is being able to install more than 4 GB RAM.

Next revision will hopefully bring both. (AND perhaps the return of FW to the 13" form factor - hah!)

The hard drive will not be a deciding factor, since hard drives are dirt cheap and so easily swappable.
     
fisherKing  (op)
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
I've decided that I'm not going to bother until the second revision.

These machines aren't *that* much faster than my current 2GHz blackbook, and the bigger issue than speed, to me, is being able to install more than 4 GB RAM.

Next revision will hopefully bring both. (AND perhaps the return of FW to the 13" form factor - hah!)

The hard drive will not be a deciding factor, since hard drives are dirt cheap and so easily swappable.
yeah hear u. but since i sold my 12" powerbook (sigh), need a laptop now. likely, say february, we'll see the next revision with speed bumps, bigger drives, etc...but doubt we'll see a case redesign with an added FW port on the macbook. aaargh!
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
audvidsvs
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:24 PM
 
I am looking at the same questions really but for somewhat different reasons.

I have a Black Macbook now and I was just waiting to be thrilled with the new Macbook but the Firewire ommision is a dealbreaker for me.

I too can not get out of my mind how much I love my 12"PB and I was dreaming of its design returning.

I just left the Apple Store here and out of 9 different "Genuis" I spoke to,not one could understand or even guess what Apple was thinking when they killed the Macbook for those of us who need Firewire.
The machine is BEAUTIFUL, much better than the pictures had me beleive but.....

I realize we may be a minor piece of the marketing puzzle but a puzzle only works when all of the pieces are used.

I am so aggravated by this I can not stand it. Not that I have any actual alternatives.

So I guess the Blackbook is still the only deal for me,it is fast enough has Firewire and works fine.
But it is no 12" and that Form Factor is what I hope for.

Ed
     
fisherKing  (op)
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Oct 16, 2008, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by audvidsvs View Post
I am looking at the same questions really but for somewhat different reasons.

I have a Black Macbook now and I was just waiting to be thrilled with the new Macbook but the Firewire ommision is a dealbreaker for me.

I too can not get out of my mind how much I love my 12"PB and I was dreaming of its design returning.

I just left the Apple Store here and out of 9 different "Genuis" I spoke to,not one could understand or even guess what Apple was thinking when they killed the Macbook for those of us who need Firewire.
The machine is BEAUTIFUL, much better than the pictures had me beleive but.....

I realize we may be a minor piece of the marketing puzzle but a puzzle only works when all of the pieces are used.

I am so aggravated by this I can not stand it. Not that I have any actual alternatives.

So I guess the Blackbook is still the only deal for me,it is fast enough has Firewire and works fine.
But it is no 12" and that Form Factor is what I hope for.

Ed
i TOTALLY hear u; the 12" powerbook was my favorite mac (i had to give it up, it does not play well with one of my main apps, Reason 4). i cannot understand how apple forgets segments of it's market (including pro users who want a matte screen); for apple, we have all become ipod people!
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
audvidsvs
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Oct 16, 2008, 06:00 PM
 
Indeed it does seem that way.
Wouldn't you think they might have done some training for the employees so they might just be aware of any objections walking in to these glaring omissions?

Evidently the Apple strategy is o simply act as though nothing they have sold in the past matters and just keep themselves pointed forward,by their own new compass.

I am mad and feel a little betrayed.
Who got us using Firewire in the first place?
     
mduell
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Oct 16, 2008, 10:00 PM
 
The spindle speed of the drive isn't going to stop you from doing pro audio work.
     
fisherKing  (op)
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Oct 16, 2008, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
The spindle speed of the drive isn't going to stop you from doing pro audio work.
just a shame i can't have: a smaller laptop, AND an apogee duet firewire interface. apple really has become a consumer company (altho the mac pros are great machines)
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
analogika
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Oct 17, 2008, 04:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by audvidsvs View Post
I just left the Apple Store here and out of 9 different "Genuis" I spoke to,not one could understand or even guess what Apple was thinking when they killed the Macbook for those of us who need Firewire.
Canned response:

As much as it pains me: We've basically been pros leeching off the consumer product segment due to the inclusion of a port that has lost its meaning in the consumer market. If Apple can make an extra $700 off people who don't have a choice, they'd be stupid not to. (Though, of course, they still offer the white MacBook, so really, nothing has changed for us, except an even cheaper entry level.)
     
CharlesS
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Oct 17, 2008, 04:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
If Apple can make an extra $700 off people who don't have a choice, they'd be stupid not to.
The problem is that those people do have a choice - they can just get a $600 Dell and put an ExpressCard in it. Having a minimum entry point of $2000 for something that's $600 with your competitors kinda makes you look bad.

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Eug
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Oct 17, 2008, 04:45 AM
 
Does FW Target Mode work with Express Card FW ports? Just wundrin'. My guess is no.
     
analogika
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Oct 17, 2008, 04:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
The problem is that those people do have a choice - they can just get a $600 Dell and put an ExpressCard in it. Having a minimum entry point of $2000 for something that's $600 with your competitors kinda makes you look bad.
Show me the audio pro prepared to make that choice.

(I'll even let you exclude Logic users from the argument.)


No: there are a number of audio people working on both platforms, but anybody who's spent time doing serious audio work on Mac OS X is NOT going to switch back to Windows exclusively just because the only portable options are now the MacBook Pro or the same white MacBook that's been sufficient for the past two years.
     
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Oct 17, 2008, 05:02 AM
 
What if someone buys that $600 Dell and gives it the Hackintosh treatment? It seems to be where Apple is forcing many of its loyal customers to go these days, with such limited choices being offered.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
hempcamp
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Oct 17, 2008, 05:16 AM
 
I'm not into "pro" audio as in recording, but I am an audio enthusiast and was planning to get an Apogee Duet. Even though I won't be getting a MacBook any time soon (I just got a used 12" PB to complement my iMac), I'm now pretty sure I won't make the Duet investment because down the road it may not work.

Hopefully we'll see something as elegant and integrated as the Duet for the FW-free future.

--Chris
Current: iMac 20" 2.4/4/320 / iMac G4 800
Portable: iPhone 3G White/16 / 12" PowerBook 1.5/1.25/80
Former: PowerMac G5 Dual 1.8 / iBook G3 700 / PM 7500, 3G iPod 10GB, 5.5G iPod 30GB
     
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Oct 17, 2008, 05:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
can i do 'pro' audio work on a 5400rpm drive? (i could easily swap the drive out myself, i guess...but annoying apple won't sell this to me with one).
Why not?
Larger drives will give you more throughput, regardless of rpm (my new 5.4k 250 GB drive is faster than my old 7.2k 100 GB drive). If the drive isn't fast enough for you, you can always swap it later.
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analogika
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Oct 17, 2008, 05:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
What if someone buys that $600 Dell and gives it the Hackintosh treatment?
NOBODY is going to entrust their livelihood to a hacked $600 Dell system running an unsupported operating system.

It's just not going to happen.
     
CharlesS
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Oct 17, 2008, 06:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Show me the audio pro prepared to make that choice.
Does Apple have a 100% market share among musicians?

If it's anything lower than that, then audio work on Windows must at least be usable on some level.

Frankly I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be any workable audio software on the dark side, and if Apple insists on making their hardware unacceptable for audio work, that to me just creates an opportunity for Windows audio software developers.

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analogika
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Oct 17, 2008, 08:03 AM
 
It's a lot more of a hassle under Windows, and I've yet to meet anybody who'd switch BACK.

And while a number of production studios did switch to Windows in the late 90s and with XP (which finally made the platform viable), and most of Europe started out on Atari rather than Macintosh and thus eventually made the transition to Windows while the Mac was still stupidly unaffordable here, Macintosh has always dominated the professional music market.

The fact that OS X doesn't need to be set up and fine-tuned for audio production (CoreAudio and CoreMIDI offer performance out of the box that require quite a bit of tweaking and well-matched components on a Windows system), along with the fact that Apple is giving away a $7000 software package for $500 has been pulling musicians and studios alike over in droves.

Nuendo 4 alone is $1800. Add the computer to that. How does setup that compare to the MacBook Pro plus Logic Studio (let alone the low-end white MacBook)? And that's a system that WON'T obsolete your prior investment, since it will run both your old Windows software AND your Mac packages.

Caveat: Unfortunately, I'm unable to find market share info for audio production. My Google-Fu fails. I am not worthy.
     
fisherKing  (op)
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Oct 17, 2008, 09:10 AM
 
i just know for myself, i am not switching platforms. i PREFER os x. i know it well, can troubleshoot it if. all my apps are mac.

i love the platform, resent having no choices in hardware... since apple IS the os x hardware company, they should be offering better options. but so it goes...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
mitchell_pgh
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Oct 17, 2008, 09:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
NOBODY is going to entrust their livelihood to a hacked $600 Dell system running an unsupported operating system.

It's just not going to happen.
Bingo... only a fool would do such a thing.

This firewire issue reminds me of the mini-tower issue... an example of Apple ignoring a segment of potential users.

I've actually been considering buying a Dell or something and hacking OS X to run on it. I want a tower that doesn't START at $2800+ (I'm not saying the Mac Pro isn't worth every penny, but if I could get a tower working for under $1000, I'd be happy. Granted, I could never update it once I got it running :-)
     
   
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