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Was Steve Jobs a d-bag?
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besson3c
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Oct 23, 2011, 04:38 PM
 
Reading these snippets of this new authorized biography and putting all of the pieces together, my picture of the man is constantly shifting.

I realize that these snippets might be manufactured to generate website traffic, to sell a crap load of books, or whatever... Perhaps reading the biography I'll be left with more of a warm and fuzzy feeling, but right now it's looking like maybe it is smart to temper admiration for the man?

- Not there for his kids (as acknowledged by him)
- Chinese factories (Apple's eventual acknowledgement of the suicide rates in their factories might be damage control)
- Environmental record (possible damage control there too)
- Jobs vowing to spend the $40 billion in Apple's possession to destroy Android (if this should be taken literally being willing to blow $40 billion dollars out of personal vendetta while not taking what is best for the company and its stockholderes is not cool)
- Jobs trying to get Bill Clinton to get Robin Williams to do ads for the company
- Jobs calling an employee a virgin, saying that Gates should drop acid
- Jobs manipulating Obama to loosen up regulations when it is not clear that Apple is not whom these very regulations are designed for given their record in some areas

Again, I'm keeping an open mind. Maybe those regulations should be destroyed, maybe Apple's environmental and foreign production isn't as bad as some would have you think, maybe Jobs was being hyperbolic with the Google $40 billion thing, blah blah blah...

Have some of you been struggling with positioning your feelings pertaining to Jobs in light of some of these stories/biography snippets? My feelings are definitely further complicated by the fact that he is dead, respecting the dead, etc.
     
mattyb
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Oct 23, 2011, 04:54 PM
 
I had an argument about Jobs and charity giving at work the other day. Lets just say that I couldn't find much evidence to back up my claims that Jobs was a charitable person.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 23, 2011, 04:57 PM
 
Really besson? We really needed this thread right now?

SJ wasn't a saint. He was brilliant but immature early on in his career (having started Apple as a kid essentially). He matured a lot after leaving, but he was still fundamentally the same person he always had been-a relentlessly driven, visionary with an aggressive, highly ego-motivated genius personality.

You can do the math yourself, but irrespective of his faults and excesses, his accomplishments speak for themselves; he's very greatly admired by most of us here and a large amount of people world-wide.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Oct 23, 2011 at 05:05 PM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
I had an argument about Jobs and charity giving at work the other day. Lets just say that I couldn't find much evidence to back up my claims that Jobs was a charitable person.

LIkewise, yet he repeated several times that there is "no prize for being the richest man at the gravesite" or something like that. Maybe charity was something he was planning on getting to later in his life, or maybe he was just full of shit?

He also suspected from the get go that his lifespan wouldn't be all that long, and he was staring death in the face for a good while. He could have gotten some people he trusted to start a Jobs foundation or something to begin working on whatever issues were dear to his heart, so I'm kind of tempted to think that the richest man at the gravesite thing was a bit of BS?
     
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:06 PM
 
Yes, Jobs was a d-bag. It was widely known that he could be one when he wanted to be when he was still alive, too. But don't write him off as an all bad person just yet. Remember that the press likes to dig up dirt on celebrities, so all the stuff that they're going to release about him from the leaked copies of the book is going to be negative. Stories about him being a perfect gentleman and being all friendly and nice don't gain eyeballs.

As for "him not being there for his children," I wouldn't take that too literally. Every parent always wishes they could have spent more time with their children, and his children (aside from Lisa) are old enough (aged 20, 16, and 13) to remember him but not really know him. And of course now he's gone from them forever.

No, the stuff coming out hasn't changed my view of the man one bit, and I doubt the book will change it either. Nobody's perfect.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Really besson? We really needed this thread right now?
Yes. I can't be the only one struggling with figuring out whether to romanticize him as being this benevolent genius, this misunderstood well intentioned but flawed individual, or this jerk that society needs to think of as a saint. With death we tend to lean in the direction of the latter, giving a lot of benefit of the doubt. What I'm interested in is accuracy, because so much of his life was lived in secrecy, as evidenced by the book snippets alone.

SJ wasn't a saint. He was brilliant but immature early on in his career (having started Apple as a kid essentially). He matured a lot after leaving, but he was still fundamentally the same person he always had been-a relentlessly driven, visionary with an aggressive, highly ego-motivated genius personality.
I think there might be more to him than just a mercurial genius.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
Yes, Jobs was a d-bag. It was widely known that he could be one when he wanted to be when he was still alive, too. But don't write him off as an all bad person just yet. Remember that the press likes to dig up dirt on celebrities, so all the stuff that they're going to release about him from the leaked copies of the book is going to be negative. Stories about him being a perfect gentleman and being all friendly and nice don't gain eyeballs.

As for "him not being there for his children," I wouldn't take that too literally. Every parent always wishes they could have spent more time with their children, and his children (aside from Lisa) are old enough (aged 20, 16, and 13) to remember him but not really know him. And of course now he's gone from them forever.

No, the stuff coming out hasn't changed my view of the man one bit, and I doubt the book will change it either. Nobody's perfect.

Good points!

I look forward to the book. I'm also tempering my feelings realizing that what has been leaked/release is designed for the purposes you outline here.

However, what came out was so blindsiding to me I'm wondering if this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I had no idea that Jobs was giving advice to our Democratic presidents, or even that he came by the Daily Show to hang out (John Hodgman talks about this in a podcast of his). I wonder why he didn't want to be a guest on the show?
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:26 PM
 
Speaking of the Daily Show, Isaacson is on this week...
     
Person Man
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I had no idea that Jobs was giving advice to our Democratic presidents
Neither did I, but it doesn't surprise me in the least. Every president solicits advice from business leaders and intellectuals.
     
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:46 PM
 
Oh, besson, if you haven't looked here there's lots of Steve Jobs stories at Folklore.org.

Folklore.org: Macintosh Stories
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
Oh, besson, if you haven't looked here there's lots of Steve Jobs stories at Folklore.org.

Folklore.org: Macintosh Stories

I read through some of those a long time ago, but I figured like many that when Jobs returned to Apple he was far more mature and mellow, and that these sorts of stories were therefore no longer terribly pertinent to the present.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:51 PM
 
The most recent story at Folklore.org (in terms of when the events occurred) appears to be 1985, FWIW...
     
chabig
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Oct 23, 2011, 05:51 PM
 
I think most super successful business people can be jerks...Bill Gates is certainly one. Larry Ellison, Rockefeller, Ted Turner, Rupert Murdock, and on and on, not to mention most politicians (who sincerely believe they know better than everyone else).
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
I think most super successful business people can be jerks...Bill Gates is certainly one. Larry Ellison, Rockefeller, Ted Turner, Rupert Murdock, and on and on, not to mention most politicians (who sincerely believe they know better than everyone else).

I haven't heard stories of people like Bill Gates being a jerk, what is the basis of this impression?
     
Big Mac
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Oct 23, 2011, 06:12 PM
 
He was very cutthroat, unethically so, in his early career. He screwed people over to gain a monopoly with DOS, and then he took advantage of Apple in stealing the Mac UI. He was also very much a dick about it.

To his credit, Gates seems to be a better guy nowadays, much better as a philanthropist as SJ said about him. And Gates' statement on Jobs' passing was pretty cool (using the insanely great phrase).

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 06:18 PM
 
Don't you mean the Windows monopoly?

I meant more with his personal interactions than his business tactics, business at that level is almost always ugly.
     
chabig
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Oct 23, 2011, 06:20 PM
 
( Last edited by chabig; Oct 23, 2011 at 07:13 PM. )
     
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Oct 23, 2011, 06:49 PM
 
I'm keeping my thoughts to myself until I read the book.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 23, 2011, 07:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post

- Not there for his kids (as acknowledged by him)
- Chinese factories (Apple's eventual acknowledgement of the suicide rates in their factories might be damage control)
- Environmental record (possible damage control there too)
- Jobs vowing to spend the $40 billion in Apple's possession to destroy Android (if this should be taken literally being willing to blow $40 billion dollars out of personal vendetta while not taking what is best for the company and its stockholderes is not cool)
- Jobs trying to get Bill Clinton to get Robin Williams to do ads for the company
- Jobs calling an employee a virgin, saying that Gates should drop acid
- Jobs manipulating Obama to loosen up regulations when it is not clear that Apple is not whom these very regulations are designed for given their record in some areas
One at a time.

-I don't pretend to know how much time he spent with his kids or his reasons either way. I doubt you know any better than me.
-The suicide rates at Foxconn were below the national average. Only the extraordinarily large population of Foxconn allows these figures to look so appalling.
-I for one think Apple has largely corrected their environmental errors.
-This is a little unprofessional, sure but we can all understand the feeling of being betrayed and its possible that Steve believed killing Android would be good for stockholders.
-First I heard of Robin Williams and Bill Clinton. Perhaps a little devious but hardly an evil act and not even that underhanded.
-Calling an employee a virgin is out of order, telling BG to try acid is much less so. LSD is not for me but lots of people seem to enjoy it now and then and some point in life.
-Surely this would be in the interest of stockholders? I assume again you are referring to Foxconn which I viewed as a media-started non-issue from day 1.

Jobs was a perfectionist and a control freak and a businessman. You can't get far in business, even on a small scale by being super nice to everyone. All bosses are capable of being assholes and thats if they aren't assholes most or all of the time.
Even with the aid of a biography those of us who didn't meet him will never know Steve Jobs the man. We can only judge him by his achievements and they paint the picture of a great visionary with an excellent talent for business, design and marketing.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 07:28 PM
 
If this sort of behavior is typical of high powered bosses, I guess I can't hold much against Jobs.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 23, 2011, 07:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
One at a time.

-I don't pretend to know how much time he spent with his kids or his reasons either way. I doubt you know any better than me.
-The suicide rates at Foxconn were below the national average. Only the extraordinarily large population of Foxconn allows these figures to look so appalling.
-I for one think Apple has largely corrected their environmental errors.
Wouldn't the first point you made (which is a good one) also apply to Foxconn and the environmental stuff? These comments are just some of Apple's talking points, positive spin on stuff right? I mean, what if this sort of thing was simply damage control and Apple knowingly went into this hoping they could get away with these things without being noticed?

I'm not trying to infer that this was the case, but like you said, I doubt any of us know any better either way.

Even with the aid of a biography those of us who didn't meet him will never know Steve Jobs the man. We can only judge him by his achievements and they paint the picture of a great visionary with an excellent talent for business, design and marketing.
This is definitely true, and maybe it is impossible to be a success like this with a different personality, but I'm struggling to figure out whether somebody like this can be a hero to me with these sorts of characteristics.

For example, take R2D2. R2D2 is my hero, but would he by my hero if he was programmed to have diarrhea from time to time? I don't know... What I like about R2D2 is his kicking ass and getting stuff done (although he is known to make mistakes), but it's hard to really get excited about a little robot kicking ass when he has to stop to take care of his diarrhea, ya know?
     
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Oct 23, 2011, 07:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Was Steve Jobs a d-bag?
He was the CEO of a major international corporation.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 23, 2011, 07:57 PM
 
I'm certainly not privy to any secret info on Foxconn or Apple environmental policy but they seem to have appeased Greenpeace which is good enough for me. Their recent products have no PVC or bromide and are highly recyclable.

As for Foxconn, those figures are public record. Since the suicide rate was most peoples point of complaint, those stats negate those complaints utterly. 20 suicides in one factory sounds like a lot because its one factory but when that factory is the size of a small country it puts it in perspective. THe original scandal was more than likely a product of lazy or sensationalist journalism.

You don't have to be a high powered businessman to be a dick. I worked for a guy with a dozen employees who tried to model himself on Jobs. He emulated the less desirable points fairly well but lacked the ambition, vision or the genius entirely.

Sadly if you look too closely, most great human beings will fail a rigorous character test. You have to be driven to achieve greatness and that tense to involve alienating others along the way. If your motives don't go beyond personal profit then its hard to admire. If you really want to make the world a better place than perhaps thats more forgivable.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Oct 23, 2011, 10:51 PM
 
Was he a d-bag? Yes, I'd bet on it.
Was he a bad person? I think there's a strong likelihood of that.
Was he the greatest businessman of his generation? Without a doubt.
Where did that leave him? Probably very depressed and lonely in his last days.

Some say you can't be a good person at that level of the business community. I don't know, personally. I got out when I saw that it was starting to change me. There were lines I wouldn't cross, so I left it to more aggressive people.
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Oct 23, 2011, 10:56 PM
 
Steve might have been a dick, but without a doubt, Apple wouldn't be the company it is today if he weren't. And honestly, anyone who hopes to compete in the consumer electronics industry is going to have to be a cock to compete with any success. You won't get anywhere without sticking your neck out.
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 12:49 AM
 
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 24, 2011, 02:24 AM
 
Thanks!
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 24, 2011, 02:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Steve might have been a dick, but without a doubt, Apple wouldn't be the company it is today if he weren't. And honestly, anyone who hopes to compete in the consumer electronics industry is going to have to be a cock to compete with any success. You won't get anywhere without sticking your neck out.

I guess, I dunno.

There is a difference between being an aggressive no-nonsense type business person that demands the best from his/her employees and just being a plain old asshole, isn't there?
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 04:42 AM
 
Steve Jobs was a focus-driven tyrant who doesn't have time for BS. He can have a temper and can be vengeful if you rub him the wrong way.

At the same time, he is one of the greatest CEO and visionary of our time.

Hopefully, I'll be getting my book soon. Suppose to be today? Still not shipped from Amazon yet.
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Oct 24, 2011, 04:57 AM
 
Gates should have dropped acid.
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 05:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I guess, I dunno.

There is a difference between being an aggressive no-nonsense type business person that demands the best from his/her employees and just being a plain old asshole, isn't there?
Bezos and Branson seem like lesser *********s.



Gates should have at least taken mushrooms. Everybody should.
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 05:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I guess, I dunno.

There is a difference between being an aggressive no-nonsense type business person that demands the best from his/her employees and just being a plain old asshole, isn't there?
Ask his former employees!

Sometimes its a fine line. I also think its possible to be a dick professionally without being one in your private life.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 05:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey View Post
Gates should have dropped acid.
Thinking about it, that could have gone either way. We could have ended up with a Microsoft that showed creativity and made nice products, or it could be that Gates was sort of tightly wound nerd that would have tried to fly out of his dorm room window after his first hit.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 07:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Reading these snippets of this new authorized biography and putting all of the pieces together, my picture of the man is constantly shifting.

I realize that these snippets might be manufactured to generate website traffic, to sell a crap load of books, or whatever... Perhaps reading the biography I'll be left with more of a warm and fuzzy feeling, but right now it's looking like maybe it is smart to temper admiration for the man?

- Not there for his kids (as acknowledged by him)
This seems to be mostly regret that he wasn't there more - logical for anyone who is about to die before his children are even grown.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
- Chinese factories (Apple's eventual acknowledgement of the suicide rates in their factories might be damage control)
I don't see how Apple could have handled it otherwise.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
- Environmental record (possible damage control there too)
This is FUD from Greenpeace, and they even admitted as much. Apple used to be about about average, and is currently significantly better.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
- Jobs vowing to spend the $40 billion in Apple's possession to destroy Android (if this should be taken literally being willing to blow $40 billion dollars out of personal vendetta while not taking what is best for the company and its stockholders is not cool)
It's a talking point as a response to offers of settlement money. Jobs is very emotional about this, as he feels he was betrayed again. Doesn't mean he'd actually do it.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
- Jobs trying to get Bill Clinton to get Robin Williams to do ads for the company
This is wrong because?

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
- Jobs calling an employee a virgin, saying that Gates should drop acid
I think these are parts of the same story, namely this one. And it was 30 years ago.

(Note that Gates was once arrested for driving while high as a kite on marijuana, so if Jobs told him that, I don't think he'd be upset).

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
- Jobs manipulating Obama to loosen up regulations when it is not clear that Apple is not whom these very regulations are designed for given their record in some areas
Ehm... you need to be more specific on that point.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Again, I'm keeping an open mind. Maybe those regulations should be destroyed, maybe Apple's environmental and foreign production isn't as bad as some would have you think, maybe Jobs was being hyperbolic with the Google $40 billion thing, blah blah blah...

Have some of you been struggling with positioning your feelings pertaining to Jobs in light of some of these stories/biography snippets? My feelings are definitely further complicated by the fact that he is dead, respecting the dead, etc.
No, my feelings on the guy are quite clear. He was an absolute dick 30 years ago. After he came back, he was very private, but he seems to have grown up. He didn't suffer fools, but that's the case for anyone in upper management in a big company. He was very upset when he felt like he was being betrayed, by MS (who really was their bestest buddies back then) in 1984 and then by Google and Eric Schmidt in particular wrt Android and the iPhone. I can understand that, especially as in both those cases Apple was the rebel against an Evil Empire (IBM and the carrier oligopoly, respectively). He was no saint, and he never was, and quite frankly the adoration for him in the last few years always felt creepy to those of us who know a little bit more of the history.
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Oct 24, 2011, 09:22 AM
 
of course he was.

to become commercially successful, one must become a douche. it's not even an option.

but at Jobs' main focus was to create great products; the commercial success is a side-effect.
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I guess, I dunno.

There is a difference between being an aggressive no-nonsense type business person that demands the best from his/her employees and just being a plain old asshole, isn't there?
I wasn't calling him a plain asshole though. I wasn't planning on telling this story for confidential reasons, but I do know one person who dealt with Jobs fairly often in the 2005-2007 era, during the transition to Intel Macs and the iPhone. This person says that Jobs could be incredibly rude and strong-willed towards people, but they always knew that it was to the benefit not only of the final product, but to their personal development as product engineers.

Apple itself is a very tough culture, even in retail. Steve isn't the only one who pushes people hard. At the end of the day, the people who work for Apple generally feel like they're working for the best company in the world. Apple richly rewards perseverance and toughing it out. Does it make Steve a dick that he created that atmosphere in Apple? It might, but it also makes Apple one of the most competitive, and the second most valuable, company in the world. And there's also a very, very tight connection between Apple employees that I've never seen anywhere else. Pretty much every corporation tries to call their employees family, but Apple's the closest I've ever seen to actually achieving that.
     
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Oct 24, 2011, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Was he a d-bag? Yes, I'd bet on it.
Was he a bad person? I think there's a strong likelihood of that.
Was he the greatest businessman of his generation? Without a doubt.
Where did that leave him? Probably very depressed and lonely in his last days.

Some say you can't be a good person at that level of the business community. I don't know, personally. I got out when I saw that it was starting to change me. There were lines I wouldn't cross, so I left it to more aggressive people.
I agree with this.

-t
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 24, 2011, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I agree with this.

-t

Me too!
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 24, 2011, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Apple itself is a very tough culture, even in retail. Steve isn't the only one who pushes people hard. At the end of the day, the people who work for Apple generally feel like they're working for the best company in the world. Apple richly rewards perseverance and toughing it out. Does it make Steve a dick that he created that atmosphere in Apple? It might, but it also makes Apple one of the most competitive, and the second most valuable, company in the world. And there's also a very, very tight connection between Apple employees that I've never seen anywhere else. Pretty much every corporation tries to call their employees family, but Apple's the closest I've ever seen to actually achieving that.
He sounds like the perfect CEO for those who are married to their jobs like he is. If you are an elite thinker and produce elite work yet don't want the stresses of the job to rule you (i.e. a work to live sort of person), perhaps you wouldn't fare well at Apple?
     
imitchellg5
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Oct 24, 2011, 05:41 PM
 
I would agree with that, though for many, the monetary compensation makes it worthwhile to provide their families with income.
     
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Oct 25, 2011, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
I had an argument about Jobs and charity giving at work the other day. Lets just say that I couldn't find much evidence to back up my claims that Jobs was a charitable person.
I can't find all the times I gave to charity online either. He kept his private life private. Just because he didn't start a foundation and grabbed the limelight to talk about his giving, doesn't mean he didn't.
     
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Oct 25, 2011, 12:27 PM
 
Can we stop with the "Chinese companies" BS. All electronics are manufactured in China. Was Apple any worse than anyone else? That doesn't make him a d-bag more than anyone else. And how many people would have bought a Mac or iDevice if it was made elsewhere and thus cost much much more?

Most stories I read about Jobs being a d-bag to people was because the other person was incompetent or didn't stand up for themselves or what they were trying to say. That said, i haven't read the bio yet, so I don't doubt there were times he was a d-bag to people for a less obvious reasons, likely moreso in his earlier years.
     
chabig
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Oct 25, 2011, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
And how many people would have bought a Mac or iDevice if it was made elsewhere and thus cost much much more?
Exactly. The same people who complain about Apple's products being manufactured in China are probably the same ones who scream on every blog about Apple products being overpriced.
     
::maroma::
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Oct 25, 2011, 01:47 PM
 
Its amusing to see people try to define someone who was intensely private. To take stories from the internet (which we all know isn't the place for facts to live and thrive) and try to label someone as a d-bag isn't very fair. For every story about Steve Jobs being a hardass towards someone, there's another that shows that he was an understanding and thoughtful person. Are any or all of these stories true? No one knew but Steve. And now, no one knows for sure.

Sure, its fun to play this game, but its also pretty pointless. If there is one thing that can be said about Steve Jobs with near certainty, its that he was a very complicated human being. Just like many of us are. Is it so hard to just enjoy what Steve has left us all and move forward? Or do we have to try to pin a label on a dead man?
     
freudling
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Oct 25, 2011, 06:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
Its amusing to see people try to define someone who was intensely private. To take stories from the internet (which we all know isn't the place for facts to live and thrive) and try to label someone as a d-bag isn't very fair. For every story about Steve Jobs being a hardass towards someone, there's another that shows that he was an understanding and thoughtful person. Are any or all of these stories true? No one knew but Steve. And now, no one knows for sure.

Sure, its fun to play this game, but its also pretty pointless. If there is one thing that can be said about Steve Jobs with near certainty, its that he was a very complicated human being. Just like many of us are. Is it so hard to just enjoy what Steve has left us all and move forward? Or do we have to try to pin a label on a dead man?
I agree mostly.

I think the real d-bags are Isaacson and 60 Minutes for trying to spin Jobs' life into some negative light, and get rich off of his death. Isaacson in interviews looks like a dork and sounds like he really doesn't know neither understands Steve Jobs as a person. He just wrote it to get money.

Now that sounds like a bunch of d-bags to me.
     
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Oct 25, 2011, 07:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I agree mostly.

I think the real d-bags are Isaacson
Have you read the book? I wouldn't be so quick to call Isaacson a d-bag.

1. Jobs asked Isaacson to write the book
2. He told him to write about everything, warts and all. Told him to interview even his enemies.

I'm about a third of the way through reading it myself. He's been pretty even-handed about how jobs is portrayed.

You want to get mad at or blame someone, then blame the media for cherry-picking the bad stuff.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Oct 25, 2011, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
Have you read the book? I wouldn't be so quick to call Isaacson a d-bag.

1. Jobs asked Isaacson to write the book
2. He told him to write about everything, warts and all. Told him to interview even his enemies.

I'm about a third of the way through reading it myself. He's been pretty even-handed about how jobs is portrayed.

You want to get mad at or blame someone, then blame the media for cherry-picking the bad stuff.

So, how has the book affected your impressions (since I haven't read any of it yet)? Are you getting warm fuzzy feelings about him, or is it mixed?
     
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Oct 25, 2011, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So, how has the book affected your impressions (since I haven't read any of it yet)? Are you getting warm fuzzy feelings about him, or is it mixed?
lol, I never had "warm fuzzy" feelings about Jobs, and the book hasn't affected my impression of him at all. It has merely confirmed a lot of what I already knew about him.

It is a good read so far. Well worth the $16.99 iBookstore price
     
freudling
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Oct 26, 2011, 12:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
Have you read the book? I wouldn't be so quick to call Isaacson a d-bag.

1. Jobs asked Isaacson to write the book
2. He told him to write about everything, warts and all. Told him to interview even his enemies.

I'm about a third of the way through reading it myself. He's been pretty even-handed about how jobs is portrayed.

You want to get mad at or blame someone, then blame the media for cherry-picking the bad stuff.
Ya ya... It's just an economy and filter by some grey haired dork. I hate to sound negative, and I know I am, but it's true. Those taped conversations sound so canned and indifferent. I think Walt Mossberg would have been the guy to write Jobs' biography. I get the impression that Jobs didn't feel close to Isaacson like some other people in his life. Isaacson... I'm not too interested in his take on Jobs.
     
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Oct 27, 2011, 11:30 AM
 
I'm about halfway through the book and Jobs comes off as an insane madman.

I don't think it's a hatchet job though, in all likelihood, Steve Jobs was an actual insane madman. The book is full of mostly facts. You can't dispute facts. Jobs was who he was.

Reading it he sounds like a narcissistic man-child. Driven to extremes, thriving on conflict and drama, and excessively cruel and vindictive to everyone around him.

I could never have worked for him, I can tell you that, but I'm glad he did what he did, because we all benefited from it.

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