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The new iPad (Page 2)
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Mar 8, 2012, 03:45 PM
 
Well, the single-core A5 also has a Cortex A9 core instead of Cortex A8 in the A4, but the way I read it, it has the same SGX543MP2 as the current iPhone. No real info though, just inferred from the wording.

Anand thinks it's a harvested regular A5.
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Mar 8, 2012, 05:04 PM
 
I was under the impression that the Cortex A9 isn't responsible for most of the H.264 decode work anyway. Mind you, as I understood it, the Tegra 2 doesn't do its 1080p decode on the GPU either. It has a separate video decoder core.

It was actually Brian Klug, but yeah, a regular A5 with one dead CPU core (A5 Celeron?) makes sense, especially since the volumes of AppleTV are not super high, at least compared to the iPhone 4S and the iPad 2. So, even if the volume of AppleTV sales increases, it won't be too much of a loss for Apple's efficiency in chip die space usage when yields improve. Still, it will be interesting to see what the teardown looks like, since if they do plan on shipping a ton of single-core A5s (like in a hypothetical A5 iPod touch) then it would make sense to have a dedicated single-core A5 design.
     
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Mar 8, 2012, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
BTW, we have an AppleTV, but if it were my choice I would have waited until 2012 before I made any purchase, because I didn't really want an AppleTV without 1080p support. (It wasn't my choice to buy the AppleTV in 2011, but I got it as a Christmas present.) However, I'm curious as to the architecture. The 2nd gen AppleTV is a single-core A4, whereas the 3rd gen AppleTV is a single-core A5.

Does this mean the main difference here is the GPU core? Does the AppleTV retain dual-core PowerVR SGX543MP2, and is that why 1080p decode now is possible? (The A4 had a single-core PowerVR SGX535.) Or is the 1080p decode capability due to some other reason (alone or in combination with the GPU)?
tv 2 was really close on decoding 1080p and it sounds like the software update for tv 2 has improved things so it's OK with 1080p decode. Output is still limited to 720p. The H.264 decode is not done on the GPU, they have purpose built hardware to accelerate the hard parts of H.264 decode.

If they are harvested A5s, which I think is reasonable, they'd be SGX543.
     
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Mar 8, 2012, 05:56 PM
 
I had some HD files that I wanted in iTunes so I repackaged them to mp4 files for use with AppleTV.

Before the OS update, I tried some with 1080p on AppleTV 2 and a few worked OK, but a lot didn't, and that was with relatively low bitrates. Then I tried some other 1080p files, and even some higher bitrate 900p files, and they often sucked. Jittery.

So for the files I really wanted in iTunes I basically repackaged them from 720p sources, or even re-encoded them from 1080p to 720p.

To put it another way, yes it worked with 1080p sometimes, but it was so hit and miss that it wasn't worth the hassle. 720p always worked like a charm though. Since 1080p still isn't officially supported on AppleTV 2, I suspect it will be more of the same. Yeah, 1080p will work better, but I'm guessing it will be inconsistent enough to make its 1080p capabilities effectively irrelevant.

I actually don't really care about the output being limited to 720p. That's fine, esp. since my projector is limited to 720p anyway. I just hate having to limit myself to 720p for my own library for AppleTV 2. Consequently, I don't actually use it much. I didn't have much control of the matter though since it was a gift.

Ironically, the most I use AppleTV for is Netflix. For my own library of HD videos, I just watch them on my Blu-ray player. No video container changes needed, and no worries about high bitrate 1080p H.264. My biggest problem with my Blu-ray player was a 4GB FAT32 filesize limit, but that's since been solved with a new Blu-ray player purchase which supports NTFS. Strangely enough, I paid less for an open box Blu-ray player (which also supports Netflix, etc.), as compared to what a refurb AppleTV 2 costs even today.

Beyond 1080p I don't care at all. To me, 1080p 2D video is the home video holy grail. Stuff like 3D and 4K is completely off the radar for me for home video. I do think the higher rez screen on the iPad is nice though. It's not necessary for video IMO. The biggest benefit of the higher pixel density on the iPad is text and graphics.

Too bad we don't have the sort of resolution independence on the iMac like we do in iOS.
( Last edited by Eug; Mar 8, 2012 at 06:04 PM. )
     
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Mar 8, 2012, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
The CPU appears to be mostly unchanged. The feature size is unchanged which will temper any clockrate gains. The change in pixels has little impact on CPU performance.
Thanks mduell.

Bought the 64GB White WiFi only model last night, looking forward to it…

My biggest disappointment: Front Facing Camera seems to be really low spec. It got terrible reviews when the iPad 2 dropped and it hasn't even changed???

I never got the 2, I stuck with the 1, so maybe it's not as bad as the web would suggest for FaceTime?
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Mar 8, 2012, 06:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I had some HD files that I wanted in iTunes so I repackaged them to mp4 files for use with AppleTV.

Before the OS update, I tried some with 1080p on AppleTV 2 and a few worked OK, but a lot didn't, and that was with relatively low bitrates. Then I tried some other 1080p files, and even some higher bitrate 900p files, and they often sucked. Jittery.

So for the files I really wanted in iTunes I basically repackaged them from 720p sources, or even re-encoded them from 1080p to 720p.

To put it another way, yes it worked with 1080p sometimes, but it was so hit and miss that it wasn't worth the hassle. 720p always worked like a charm though. Since 1080p still isn't officially supported on AppleTV 2, I suspect it will be more of the same. Yeah, 1080p will work better, but I'm guessing it will be inconsistent enough to make its 1080p capabilities effectively irrelevant.

I actually don't really care about the output being limited to 720p. That's fine, esp. since my projector is limited to 720p anyway. I just hate having to limit myself to 720p for my own library for AppleTV 2. Consequently, I don't actually use it much. I didn't have much control of the matter though since it was a gift.
In the HB channel it's being reported that the 1080p videos from iTunes work fine on tv 2 with the new software, so it's just a matter of finding out what the limitation is if your videos don't work with the new software. I'd guess a vbv-maxrate cap and/or using Main profile instead of High will do it.

Originally Posted by kenna View Post
My biggest disappointment: Front Facing Camera seems to be really low spec. It got terrible reviews when the iPad 2 dropped and it hasn't even changed???

I never got the 2, I stuck with the 1, so maybe it's not as bad as the web would suggest for FaceTime?
The specs they publish like megapixels are the least relevant specs. What's important is noise and color and they can't put those in a meaningful number. That said, it seems like a lousy camera regardless of the specs.
     
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Mar 8, 2012, 09:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
In the HB channel it's being reported that the 1080p videos from iTunes work fine on tv 2 with the new software, so it's just a matter of finding out what the limitation is if your videos don't work with the new software. I'd guess a vbv-maxrate cap and/or using Main profile instead of High will do it.
That's just it. I want to avoid this. My Blu-ray player plays anything I throw at it, even with native mkv files. I'd prefer to just repackage my existing h.264 files, rather than re-encode them.

I figure the A5 would play a higher percentage of my existing files than the A4 does. Good to hear that 1080p from iTunes works with the A4 though. Does that apply to my iPhone 4 too? I would assume so, or at least I hope so.
     
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Mar 8, 2012, 09:26 PM
 
With Cook being the new CEO, everything will start a-new.

New CEO
New iPad
New AppleTV
New iPhone
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Mar 8, 2012, 09:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
New iPad
New iPhone
Nothing new there. There's a new iPad and new iPhone *every* year.
     
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Mar 8, 2012, 10:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Nothing new there. There's a new iPad and new iPhone *every* year.
Next year, it would be:

New iPad 2
New AppleTV 2
New iPhone 2
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Mar 9, 2012, 02:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
The specs they publish like megapixels are the least relevant specs. What's important is noise and color and they can't put those in a meaningful number. That said, it seems like a lousy camera regardless of the specs.
Yeah, I wasn't meaning megapixels alone, but the shoddy reviews saying that 'to look on the brightside' as people won't be able to make out your blemishes… it's a shame Apple do this 'cos you'd expect a half decent camera on the front after a 2nd iteration of having one.

Never mind though, it's just that I'll be using that to keep in touch with a good friend who moved abroad.
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Mar 9, 2012, 03:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
...it seems like a lousy camera regardless of the specs.
You may be correct, but IMO we need to see real-world in-use results before coming to a conclusion regarding camera adequacy. Pre-release specs in digital cameras are largely meaningless. The c. 2000 Nikon D1, for instance, produced very good pix from less than 3 megapixels. We do not really know either optics or software magic until after we can evaluate the real-world performance.

If the new iPad pix are less than good I will be disappointed with Apple, because I can see no reason the iPad3 (what I call it in lieu of Apple's non-naming) should not have a camera approximating the excellent iP4s camera.

-Allen
     
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Mar 9, 2012, 04:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Yes, a few sources are saying 1 GB.
I tried tracing this back, and it seems to stem from Epic saying that "the new iPad" has more memory that the PS3 and Xbox 360, They both have 512 MB (the PS3 in a split config between video and main memory, the Xbox 360 in one big pool). The A5 has two memory channels, which should be populated evenly for max performance. The likely conclusion from these two pieces of fact is that Apple simple doubled the RAM from the previous model, as anything else would cause unpredictable performance.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Mar 10, 2012, 06:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
You may be correct, but IMO we need to see real-world in-use results before coming to a conclusion regarding camera adequacy. Pre-release specs in digital cameras are largely meaningless. The c. 2000 Nikon D1, for instance, produced very good pix from less than 3 megapixels. We do not really know either optics or software magic until after we can evaluate the real-world performance.

If the new iPad pix are less than good I will be disappointed with Apple, because I can see no reason the iPad3 (what I call it in lieu of Apple's non-naming) should not have a camera approximating the excellent iP4s camera.

-Allen
Didn't they all but say that the same camera is on the front as is on the iPad 2?

Apple get a huge for that one… I can't see them changing the optics/sensor/whatever else is important just so they have something else to say next year like 'this is something we could have done last year, but we thought it'd be a reason to make everyone want to upgrade'. I mean is this the same 720p front-facing camera that's on my 2011 MacBook Pro??? If so, I don't think it's a bad camera by any means… but reviews weren't favourable of it even last year (not to say that the critics are anything to go by).

I just thought Apple would have tackled that, considering they made 'everything' better with the iPad 3.

I do think this is a 3GS in every way… which is fine, I'm just a bit frustrated as an iPad 1 buyer, they did the best upgrade in the 2nd year rather than the third (when first-time buyers should be rewarded from our own perspective).

Either way, I'm sure that I'll love it. But if I hadn't sold my iPad 1, I wouldn't be getting the new 'iPad'.

Now watch me come back next Friday and say 'This screen is worth the upgrade alone' haha
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Mar 10, 2012, 12:15 PM
 
This is definitely more than 3G to 3GS upgrade. The screen upgrade is huge.

As for the iPad 1 to new iPad upgrade, this is also huge. I personally found the iPad 1 annoyingly limiting. I suspect the most limiting factors in the original iPad's specs were its 256 MB RAM and its single-core A4, but the screen isn't all that great either.
     
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Mar 10, 2012, 12:35 PM
 
Some details now coming out: Facetime will still be wifi only.

You asked, Apple answered: A short iPad Q&A | TechBlog | a Chron.com blog

Q. Will Facetime work over LTE on the new iPad, or just Wi-Fi?

Currently, Facetime – the videoconferencing feature in iOS – works only when the devices are connected to Wi-Fi. Unfortunately, that won’t change with the 4G iPad, which uses the zippier LTE connections of AT&T and Verzion.

Apple didn’t say why, but I suspect it has to do with the amount of data Facetime uses and the fact that data connections are usually tiered or capped.
     
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Mar 10, 2012, 07:20 PM
 
also just saw this:

"Customer response to the new iPad has been off the charts and the quantity available for pre-order has been purchased," Apple said in a statement. "Customers can continue to order online and receive an estimated delivery date."

Nothing like annihilating the competition!
     
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Mar 10, 2012, 11:24 PM
 
Just got me tracking number.
     
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Mar 11, 2012, 01:27 AM
 
     
kenna
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Mar 11, 2012, 07:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
This is definitely more than 3G to 3GS upgrade. The screen upgrade is huge.

As for the iPad 1 to new iPad upgrade, this is also huge. I personally found the iPad 1 annoyingly limiting. I suspect the most limiting factors in the original iPad's specs were its 256 MB RAM and its single-core A4, but the screen isn't all that great either.
I suppose so, but with the 3G to 3GS we received video, which was huge at the time along with everything inside getting an upgrade, similarly to this iPad.

However, my opinion will likely falter to your way of thinking as soon as I see the screen and see how much of a difference this will make.

I also felt the iPad 1 was limiting, but I put this largely down to the lack of native apps that we saw in that first year… with the exception of the release date ones, they came at a slow pace and I remember buying some weak apps just because they were native and getting good reviews because the competition was so poor.

My biggest complaint with iPad 1 was the lack of 'tabs' in Safari. For something that I wanted to browse the web on, it was annoying we had to go back to the late 90s/early 00s.

Here's another question or two for all:

Do you think Steve Jobs would have had Siri for the new iPad as his 'One more thing?' and do you think we'll still see 'One more thing…' now we're under Tim Cook's reign?

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Just got me tracking number.
Same here. Do you think they'll arrive a day early like they did with the iPad 1?
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Mar 11, 2012, 08:08 PM
 
What day are the US ordered ones supposed to arrive? They don't go on sale until this Friday (16 March) in Australia. Not sure why but I have always waited for the bleeding edge to stop haemorrhaging before buying any new tech but I got both my iPhones on the first day and will get iPad 3 on the first day.

And yes, I know Apple aren't calling it iPad 3 but Apple are stoopid when it comes to numbering devices.
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Mar 11, 2012, 08:30 PM
 
It's the 16th here too.

Your policy used to make sense. First generation Apple product has been (and still is) spotty. What's changed is the ease of getting a replacement.
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 12:54 AM
 
Yes, maybe thats what it is. I work about 150 metres away from the main Sydney Apple store and they've happily replaced my iphones about 5 times.

Be crappy to not have an Apple store nearby.
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Mar 12, 2012, 02:25 AM
 
My tracking number says it's gonna get here on the 12th. Will they deliver it early?
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 12:44 PM
 
I doubt they'd deliver it that early. Maybe a day early, if at all.
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 01:12 PM
 
Here in the states, they typically get held up in customs and then held at the FedEx/UPS facility until their authorized delivery date. Like ::maroma:: said, probably only a day early. Mine original came on the exact delivery date even though it had been in-country for a few days.
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
My tracking number says it's gonna get here on the 12th. Will they deliver it early?
Mine shipped to my town on the 10th… doubt it'll be delivered until the 16th, although it says that it is 'subject to change'.

The first iPad was delivered a day early, fingers crossed that this'll happen again!!
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Mar 12, 2012, 02:52 PM
 
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Mar 12, 2012, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by kenna View Post
Didn't they all but say that the same camera is on the front as is on the iPad 2?
Maybe. My comments are directed at the backside camera quality because I do not care about the iChat camera quality at all.

-Allen
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
This is definitely more than 3G to 3GS upgrade. The screen upgrade is huge.

As for the iPad 1 to new iPad upgrade, this is also huge. I personally found the iPad 1 annoyingly limiting. I suspect the most limiting factors in the original iPad's specs were its 256 MB RAM and its single-core A4, but the screen isn't all that great either.
Agreed on all points.
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Maybe. My comments are directed at the backside camera quality because I do not care about the iChat camera quality at all.

-Allen
I thought you were, so I got confused.

I care about it though, I'd like it to show a good picture when speaking to my friends abroad. I'm sure it does anyway, apart from the 'grainy reviews' that I read about it… which is a shame.

Here's an interesting article I just found about reasons Siri wasn't included on iPad: Some thoughts on why the iPad is Siri-free.

After reading that, my want for Siri on the iPad has dampened; although the thought of it retrieving me football scores are definitely something that would make it worthwhile once that's implemented in the future.
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Mar 12, 2012, 06:24 PM
 
Can the new iPad do dictation without an internet connection? I doubt it. Then the "internet connection" argument for leaving out Siri doesn't hold water.
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
Can the new iPad do dictation without an internet connection? I doubt it. Then the "internet connection" argument for leaving out Siri doesn't hold water.
I believe that yes, the dictation function is independent of internet access.

Personally to date I have found speech modules like that in Siri (and I would think also the Pad) dependent on good sound quality, so I will be surprised if iPad dictation works well without an independently attached mic.

-Allen
     
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Mar 12, 2012, 07:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
I believe that yes, the dictation function is independent of internet access.
On the iPhone, the dictation function (not Siri) is absolutely dependent upon internet connection.

If you put the iPhone in Airplane mode, the microphone button disappears from all keyboard layouts. It reappears immediately once Airplane mode is turned off.
     
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Mar 13, 2012, 10:43 AM
 
Mine reads as "picked up" in Middletown, PA with "Future delivery requested" and delivery on the 16th.
     
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Mar 13, 2012, 10:46 AM
 
     
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Mar 13, 2012, 10:49 AM
 
Here's an article on why they supposedly won't be delivered early:

Why Your New iPad Won’t Be Delivered Early | Cult of Mac

Key bit:
Because Apple has the new iPads locked up in their own private 18-wheeler trucks. These trucks are on FedEx property, and entered into FedEx’s system, but FedEx has been told that Apple will not unlock these trucks until Thursday evening.
     
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Mar 13, 2012, 11:25 AM
 
Does anyone know how Apple re-sellers are treated with regard to new iPad supplies. By re-sellers I mean places like BestBuy, MacZone etc. Do they some allotment on March 16 or do they have to wait some amount of time.

I pre-ordered my new iPad from a re-seller the morning of March 7 and just wondering if re-sellers will get some allotment on the 16th like AppleStores.
     
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Mar 13, 2012, 12:10 PM
 
I believe retailers get a limited supply initially. Pre-orders and Apple Stores get priority. At least as far as I can tell from previous launches.
     
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Mar 13, 2012, 12:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
So, I suspect Senor Gif performance will still suck.
     
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Mar 13, 2012, 01:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
On the iPhone, the dictation function (not Siri) is absolutely dependent upon internet connection.

If you put the iPhone in Airplane mode, the microphone button disappears from all keyboard layouts. It reappears immediately once Airplane mode is turned off.
Correct. I was discussing the new iPad dictation, contrasting it with the iP4s's Siri-integrated voice module which like you say absolutely is internet-dependent (very sucky when driving through Wyoming trying to use Siri). I believe the new iPad dictation function is independent of internet access but I have not had one to test yet.

-Allen
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 13, 2012, 02:14 PM
 
I was talking about the iPhone's dictation feature, which is identical to the iPad's, not about Siri.

I see no reason why Apple would build two completely different implementations (one server-based, the other local) of identical functionality.
     
turtle777
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Mar 13, 2012, 03:02 PM
 
Or, to make it even more clear:

Dictation feature and Siri use the same server-based processing, no matter what iOS device.

-t
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 13, 2012, 05:34 PM
 
Bummer then, because Siri dictation totally sucks when driving in variable-signal-strength areas like mountainous or remote terrain.

-Allen
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 13, 2012, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Bummer then, because Siri dictation totally sucks when driving in variable-signal-strength areas like mountainous or remote terrain.
There is no "Siri dictation".

There is Siri, and there is dictation. Siri is the assistant, invoked by a long press on the home button. Dictation is available everywhere that shows the keyboard, in whatever language the keyboard is set to.

Both are server-based, and both are available on iPhone, but only one works on iPad.
     
subego
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Mar 13, 2012, 08:12 PM
 
You must be fun at a party.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 13, 2012, 08:22 PM
 
I'm German, what do you expect?

     
subego
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Mar 13, 2012, 08:43 PM
 
Well played, sir.
     
Eug  (op)
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Mar 13, 2012, 11:18 PM
 
Pic examples from the camera: Hình chụp bởi iPad 2012

Full light pix are decent: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7057/6...26dc9197_o.jpg

Low light is acceptable for a tablet camera: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7208/6...ea1bd8d3_o.jpg

This is what the iPad 2 should have had.
     
amazing
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Mar 14, 2012, 01:50 PM
 
Ha! Apple has had to change their LTE product description in the UK:

"As we explain in this article about the New iPad and LTE 4G in the UK: The New iPad supports 4G running on the 700MHz and 2,100MHz spectrums - which is where 4G sits in America and Canada. Here in the UK the spectrums reserved for 4G aren't the same: the current UK trials are using the 1,800MHz spectrum, and later this year the 800MHz and 2.6GHz spectrum will be auctioned off in the UK. So the New iPad may never offer 4G in the UK."
Apple admits iPad 4G only for USA and Canada - iPad/iPhone - Macworld UK

As the article so lovingly states:

"Apple may come a cropper for describing the New iPad as Wi-Fi + 4G on its UK website. First, LTE 4G is not really 4G, because 4G is supposed to offer 1 Gbit/s and Apple’s brand of LTE 4G (or faux-G) offers 73Mbp/s."

Love it: 'come a cropper' over faux-G!
     
 
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