Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Adobe starts anti-Apple ad campaign

Adobe starts anti-Apple ad campaign (Page 2)
Thread Tools
analogue SPRINKLES
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: T •
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 15, 2010, 10:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post


Yes, because InDesign isn't bloated, slow and ... well your run of the mill Adobe product. Like Flash. Ah wait.
Perhaps but it is a million times better than quark. It's a joke how long quark took to export PDF's and support transparencies even though their customers begged for years for it.

Instead they gave us webpage export and nastier copy protection. That's why they lost in the end.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 15, 2010, 10:05 PM
 
Who actually uses web page export in these sorts of apps anyway? It's always so incredibly lame, whether you are talking about Word, ImageReady/Photoshop, or anything else I've ever seen...
     
Oisín
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 15, 2010, 10:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Who actually uses web page export in these sorts of apps anyway? It's always so incredibly lame, whether you are talking about Word, ImageReady/Photoshop, or anything else I've ever seen...
I was slightly horrified to find out a while ago at work that our database of about 10,000 insurance policy T&C’s (all in HTML) consisted of about 10,000 Word documents exported to HTML.

No, correction. I was majorly horrified about that.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: T •
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 15, 2010, 11:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Who actually uses web page export in these sorts of apps anyway? It's always so incredibly lame, whether you are talking about Word, ImageReady/Photoshop, or anything else I've ever seen...
Yep, but it was on the top of Quarks the priority list for Quark. They realized they were 100% print and the "internet" was probably something they should get involved with.

Never saw anyone actually stupid enough to use it.

I remember in 2005 or so I was at a Design conference and they had the Quark CEO on stage talking about all the wonderful new Quark 6 features. The audience reluctantly sat through a 20 minute demo of web export and linked text boxes and then they started the Q&A themselves. They heckled the CEO on why they were concentrating on ridiculous features that nobody wants but at the same time make the copy protection even more hard core yet they ignore PDF exports and Alpha channels. He didn't know what to say and for a while I thought he was going to get lynched. It was awesome.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 15, 2010, 11:21 PM
 
Who uses those exports are those who don't know HTML, don't want to know HTML, don't want to pay someone who knows HTML, and as long as it shows up in the browser ok, don't care about standards, accessability, or fast-loading.

Word export is the devil.

Originally Posted by Salty View Post
heck they could probably pull off one app that would compete with Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign, the fact that all three apps are separate is kinda silly.
The people at Corel and Canvas would like to interest you in their products. I had canvas once upon a time, it was nice but not industry standard, and it was before PDF workflows where it didn't matter what you worked in as long as you could print the PDF.

The reason Adobe still sells each app separately is because some people only buy one, not the suite. I agree that's rare, but... I can't see Adobe combining these apps when they can't even get some kind of common interface and shortcuts between apps as it is. It's annoying that the pen tool in Photoshop doesn't have the same key commands as Illustrator, never mind the pen tool in Flash... aaand so on.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 15, 2010, 11:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Who uses those exports are those who don't know HTML, don't want to know HTML, don't want to pay someone who knows HTML, and as long as it shows up in the browser ok, don't care about standards, accessability, or fast-loading.

Word export is the devil.

Maybe this was before it was easy to create PDFs? Maybe it was never easy to create PDFs in Windows, I actually don't know how one would create PDFs in Windows

The people at Corel and Canvas would like to interest you in their products. I had canvas once upon a time, it was nice but not industry standard, and it was before PDF workflows where it didn't matter what you worked in as long as you could print the PDF.

The reason Adobe still sells each app separately is because some people only buy one, not the suite. I agree that's rare, but... I can't see Adobe combining these apps when they can't even get some kind of common interface and shortcuts between apps as it is. It's annoying that the pen tool in Photoshop doesn't have the same key commands as Illustrator, never mind the pen tool in Flash... aaand so on.

I know that this would be extremely unconventional and there is probably some good reason why this is not practical, but why not have some sort of application usage mode where you can switch between print, illustration, and photo views whereby doing so all of the non-relevant things are hidden, toolbars change, etc. iMovie used to do something like this with its display modes, although it's been a while since I used it.

My thinking is that it seems like Adobe has had a difficult time integrating, say, ImageReady with Photoshop, and it seems like a poor use of resources to have different apps open and consuming a footprint of RAM and get users to switch back and forth between these apps, pulling files between them, etc.. Why not load these different modes dynamically when the user switches to them, thereby keeping the initial load time low and overall footprint low, and storing functions and shared libraries that are common between these apps in memory so that they don't have to reinvent the wheel and consume additional resources?

I'm sure it would be a mega project to move to this sort of model, but at the end of the day they would have a single app to maintain.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: T •
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2010, 12:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Who uses those exports are those who don't know HTML, don't want to know HTML, don't want to pay someone who knows HTML, and as long as it shows up in the browser ok, don't care about standards, accessability, or fast-loading.
You're talking about flash right?
     
Salty
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 17, 2010, 10:52 PM
 
I have to wonder how much this Anti-Apple campaign is going to hurt Adobe... I'm pretty sure Apple could unfortunately snub the entire desktop publishing industry and still be fine. I mean they'd be stupid to, but they don't need Adobe nearly as much as Adobe needs to find a way onto the next major computing platforms.
     
pooka
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: type 13 planet
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 18, 2010, 12:24 PM
 

New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
     
voodoo
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Salamanca, España
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 18, 2010, 10:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Perhaps but it is a million times better than quark. It's a joke how long quark took to export PDF's and support transparencies even though their customers begged for years for it.

Instead they gave us webpage export and nastier copy protection. That's why they lost in the end.
The joke is only people whining about PDF exporting when they could well use Distiller or OS X to do that at the time. Just press command-P in one of the older Quark apps.

Of course the point is moot now, since this has already been implemented in Quark along with all the other miniscule and rather unimportant bells and whistles (such as transparency) that ID claimed.

So now Quark has all the features of ID and is faster, slimmer, less bloated and most importantly an incredibly powerful and versatile *design* and *layout* app.

How about some more losers like that? I'd buy that for a dollar!

BTW the copy protection scheme of CS5 is better than Quark's how exactly? One company improves its product (Quark) and the other bloats and actually makes their product worse. Well done Adobe. Well done.
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: T •
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 18, 2010, 10:11 PM
 
OK Voodoo. Quark is a powerful bloat free powerhouse.

That's why so many people have bitched about it for years and moved away as best they could.

Enjoy using it!
     
Salty
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2010, 01:56 AM
 
now now people... I think we're all losing perspective here... let's get back to how crappy Adobe's products have gotten.

Anyone try typing on a path in illustrator CS5? Good luck getting a second line on that path... apparently it's much easier to just use the mesh option.
     
torsoboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2010, 03:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by pooka View Post
Steve Jobs Sucks™

Seriously, he does. They should allow him to develop hardware, and that is it. Time to boot him out for the second time. Bring him back in a couple of years when he has learned his lesson again.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2010, 04:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by pooka View Post
Sorry, but what did he expect?

Apple doesn't want external development frameworks, as once they get real traction, they have the power to delay or stifle the platform, regardless of how much lip service is being paid to full compatibility today.

That's clear, that's obvious, that sucks total ass and destroys their business model, but feel free to ask again and then complain when the reply confirms the obvious.
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2010, 07:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by pooka View Post
First line on his website: "Free your apps"

Yeah, right, that's gonna fly. If you want to develop for the iPhone and iPad, which nobody forces you to do, then you'll do it according to Apple's rules.

If you disagree with them, dislike them, think they're a big fat crock of shit, think Jobs is teh devil, then don't get involved. Develop apps for Android - and hope like hell that they actually run on enough handsets - buy a Nokia or explore a Windows phone. If enough people think so Apple will either change direction or go out of business.
     
pooka
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: type 13 planet
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2010, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
If enough people think so Apple will either change direction or go out of business.
I didn't post the link to generate sympathy for the man or company's business model. If you'll notice, I'm just posting some thoughts from actual developers and those most affected by Apple's erratic attitude (outside looking in). The professional bloggers and Aeron Quarterbacks seem fairly well represented already.

New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2010, 11:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
Time to boot him out for the second time
Holy overreaction, Batman.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2010, 12:44 PM
 
Well, the point about this announcement coming as a surprise has got to be terribly painful for those midway through development. That I can see, I don't think any of us saw this coming?
     
pooka
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: type 13 planet
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 21, 2010, 03:10 PM
 
Yeah, yeah. "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out..."

Sayonara, iPhone: Why I'm Switching to Android - Techtonic Shifts Blog - Newsweek.com

*batman cliffhanger sound*

Can Gruber rally the troops to save the day!?? Find out... NEXT WEEK!

New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,