Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > Mac App Store launch

Mac App Store launch
Thread Tools
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 08:00 PM
 
It looks like the Mac App Store for OS X will be launching tomorrow! Personally ever since the App Store on iOS came out I've wanted something similar on OS X. There are a lot of great apps for OS X, but sometimes it can be hard to find them, and I think this will help out with that.
     
ibook_steve
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 08:38 PM
 
I don't entirely see the point other than to get apps out there that have not had traditional digital distribution (like iLife and iWork), especially for advanced users. Just give me MacUpdate and Versiontracker (RIP) and I'm good to go. I guess it will help to get shareware developers noticed, though.

Steve
Celebrating 10 years and 4000 posts on MacNN!
     
jmiddel
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Land of Enchantment
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 08:42 PM
 
Well, I'm looking forward to being able to download games like 'words with friends' so I can play with my pal, until Verizon gets the iPhone and I can buy one.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 08:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by jmiddel View Post
Well, I'm looking forward to being able to download games like 'words with friends' so I can play with my pal, until Verizon gets the iPhone and I can buy one.
It is for OS X applications, not iOS apps.
     
AKcrab
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
It is for OS X applications, not iOS apps.
Are you 100% sure? I guess we'll know tomorrow.
     
Brien
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 10:20 PM
 
$10 says this is Step 2 of Apple's plan to eliminate optical drives and traditional software distribution in-house. Step 1 was the new MacBook Air and the OS coming on a thumb drive.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 11:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by AKcrab View Post
Are you 100% sure? I guess we'll know tomorrow.
At the risk of NDA, "Submit your Mac OS X apps by December 31st to be available at launch on January 6th."
     
AKcrab
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 11:48 PM
 
I guess I don't understand what you mean...

Why can't the Words With Friends people create a OS X app that would interface with the iOS apps?
     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2011, 11:59 PM
 
Oh I was confused.

They absolutely could. But why wouldn't they say that they are going to? My understanding is that the OS X App Store isn't going to precede a bunch of new apps, it's just going to be a vault for apps.
     
Andy8
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 09:18 AM
 
Quite unimpressed with the App Store so far!

     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 10:03 AM
 
Working fine here

     
msuper69
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Columbus, OH
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 10:08 AM
 
Aperture 3 is $79.99 on the App Store while it's $199 on the Apple Store.

Is a physical media version of the same software worth nearly $120?

I'm on board.

UPDATE:

This is very nice. You can install Apple software purchased via the App Store on all the Macs you own, no limit.
I wouldn't think this would apply to business settings but since I'm not a business, it works for me.

UPDATE:

Same rules apply to business use but the software can only be used in a serial fashion, one user at a time.
( Last edited by msuper69; Jan 6, 2011 at 11:16 AM. )
     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 11:45 AM
 
The rules for multiple Macs are very, very nice. Well done Apple.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 12:19 PM
 
What I'm wondering about is if it makes sense to download the app from the developer's site so that they pocket more money? I don't mind doing that in support of apps/developers I think ought to succeed.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 12:36 PM
 
I already fell victim to the casual purchase syndrome that I've experienced on the iTunes/iBook/iPad stores and bought Sketchbook Pro. Can't wait to try it out with the Wacom at home.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I already fell victim to the casual purchase syndrome that I've experienced on the iTunes/iBook/iPad stores
I tell you, that effect alone will more than compensate software vendors for the 30% payment to Apple.

-t
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What I'm wondering about is if it makes sense to download the app from the developer's site so that they pocket more money? I don't mind doing that in support of apps/developers I think ought to succeed.
Sure, why not, if you don't mind that extra step and the inconvenience.
Most likely, you will need to create a new account, enter all your billing information etc...

Most people will use the app store because it's convenient and linked to an already existing iTunes account.

-t
     
Doc HM
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 12:47 PM
 
Aperture 3 at £44.99 is a stand out. I would expect this to be an introductory loss leader maybe going up to full price in a short while. So I'm in for it now. It's a super bargain!

Casual buying of lower priced apps will overall net developers a big win. Angry Birds etc at £2.99 brings casual gaming to the Mac.

Like it so far.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I already fell victim to the casual purchase syndrom
I find this hard to believe.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I already fell victim to the casual purchase syndrome that I've experienced on the iTunes/iBook/iPad stores and bought Sketchbook Pro. Can't wait to try it out with the Wacom at home.
Shut up! It's been a long time since I've had an iOS device and had some new apps to play with, now this is just tempting me to buy Angry Birds.
     
Jawbone54
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Louisiana
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 03:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I tell you, that effect alone will more than compensate software vendors for the 30% payment to Apple.
Exactly. There's no telling how many times over an app will sell when it's featured prominently on the store.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I find this hard to believe.
There's no trading in apps, though...

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Shut up! It's been a long time since I've had an iOS device and had some new apps to play with, now this is just tempting me to buy Angry Birds.
Trust me...you'd better stay away.
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 05:12 PM
 
I will probably use the store to pick up apps I missed and forgot about years ago, like Pangaea's Bugdom 2. But $20 is kinda steep for such an old game.

I can't believe Apple kept that hideous UI. And the entire window is non-standard and thus invisible to HyperDock.

Apps installed on the system are unrecognized by the Store unless they were bought thru the Store itself (except for Apple's apps.) So much for a single, simple way to keep all apps up to date.

BTW, I can't stand the current interface at MacUpdate. Just hideous.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Apps installed on the system are unrecognized by the Store unless they were bought thru the Store itself (except for Apple's apps.) So much for a single, simple way to keep all apps up to date.
Give it some time. This could be a v2 or v3 feature.

-t
     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 06:08 PM
 
Apps that I have installed through DVD (such as Aperture) show up in the Store for me as installed, like this:

     
cgc
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Down by the river
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 06:41 PM
 
AppStore doesn't identify any of my installed apps. Oh well, at least Aperture is $79...bought it immediately and dumped iPhoto 9.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 06:46 PM
 
Just noticed it doesn't recognise Pages for me. Odd.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 07:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What I'm wondering about is if it makes sense to download the app from the developer's site so that they pocket more money? I don't mind doing that in support of apps/developers I think ought to succeed.
This has been discussed in depth earlier, but I'm quite certain that the App Store is a far better deal for almost every developer than dealing with accounting, distribution, billing, CC companies, local tax regulations, international VAT, and advertising, completely on your own time and dime.

Just ask the makers of Airfoil - they actually had to suspend international distribution for a while after running into customs issues due to download distribution into EU countries without paying VAT.

The App Store is the best thing that could happen to the small independents.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2011, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
This has been discussed in depth earlier, but I'm quite certain that the App Store is a far better deal for almost every developer than dealing with accounting, distribution, billing, CC companies, local tax regulations, international VAT, and advertising, completely on your own time and dime.

Just ask the makers of Airfoil - they actually had to suspend international distribution for a while after running into customs issues due to download distribution into EU countries without paying VAT.

The App Store is the best thing that could happen to the small independents.

I agree, but I'm talking about all of the businesses that are currently paying for this infrastructure. I can see how this could be a good deal for vendors, but I can see many simply letting their current download systems retire by attrition.
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 7, 2011, 09:23 AM
 
comment removed per legal counsel advice
( Last edited by osiris; Jan 7, 2011 at 09:33 AM. )
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
MikeD
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Naperville, IL
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 11:03 AM
 
For me, some apps are showing as installed and others are not showing as installed. Is anyone else having this problem? I think all the Apple apps are fine. But only some 3rd party ones are working properly.

Delicious Library 2 which I have been a long time user of, shows as installed right out of launch. But CameraBag by Neversoft, isn't. Same with Socialite.

Also, so if you buy an app like Pixelmator, you can download it on your desktop and macbook as well?
2009 MacMini 2.0 C2D 4GB (3,1) - Needs update!
11" MBA (2010 1.6GHz C2D)
iPhone 4 / iPad!
Hooked on Apple since the IIGS
     
l008com
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Stoneham, MA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:02 PM
 
Does the app store support trials/demos of software? For paid desktop applications, that seems like something that is really necessary.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Does the app store support trials/demos of software? For paid desktop applications, that seems like something that is really necessary.
No demos, no trials, BUT - they allow for developers to link to demo downloads on their own homepage.
     
l008com
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Stoneham, MA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:06 PM
 
hmmmm thats kinda odd. But I guess that works. It's too bad apple doesn't build an automatic 7 day or 14 day trail (or more) into every app, as part of the DRM. That would be a huge benefit to the good apps, and really hurt the crappy apps.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Does the app store support trials/demos of software.
No.

-t
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:12 PM
 
Yeah, I'm not quite down with the possibility of spending, say, $40 for an app based on its screenshots and marketing promises. Demos would be really cool.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Yeah, I'm not quite down with the possibility of spending, say, $40 for an app based on its screenshots and marketing promises. Demos would be really cool.
I don't understand: recently you said you wanted to support the developers, and purchase the apps directly from their website.

So why can't you get the demo / trial from there ?

-t
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
hmmmm thats kinda odd. But I guess that works. It's too bad apple doesn't build an automatic 7 day or 14 day trail (or more) into every app, as part of the DRM. That would be a huge benefit to the good apps, and really hurt the crappy apps.
It would also mean a logistical and technical nightmare that I really, really would NOT want to have to deal with, were I a distributor. If it's necessary, let the manufacturer deal with that crap.

The entire point of the App Store is simplicity - Seek, Buy, Install. Instead, you suggest that a dialog pop up at seemingly random points in the future asking people to pay or disable stuff they may or may not remember downloading, while stuff they'd just had running suddenly breaks on them if they do the wrong thing?

Remember that the integration is such that the system will offer to just search the App Store for an appropriate application if you attempt to open a document with an unknown extension.

As someone who lives partly off tech support, I think that's a GREAT idea! As a plain user, it would make me want to throw the whole damn computer at the guy who ever sold it to me.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I don't understand: recently you said you wanted to support the developers, and purchase the apps directly from their website.

So why can't you get the demo / trial from there ?

-t

I foresee when it comes to replacing developer websites that in the future they will just forgo making the downloads available on their site in favor of the app store. Providing demos on the app store would help facilitate this.

What I was saying was that for the *time being* I'd be tempted to just download from their own site so that they pocket more money.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 04:22 PM
 
They wouldn't, though.
     
pcryan5
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Yeah, I'm not quite down with the possibility of spending, say, $40 for an app based on its screenshots and marketing promises. Demos would be really cool.
FWIW - Omni will refund your full purchase price within 30 days if you are not satisfied. I wasn't with omnigraffle Ipad and got a no questions asked refund. They even eat the Apple's 30% charge.

That is one decent company - makes me happy to use three of their other paid products.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
They wouldn't, though.

They will so long as their infrastructure has already been paid for.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
They will so long as their infrastructure has already been paid for.
Right, because bookkeeping, keeping track of international sales, checking for changed regulations regarding sales in various locations, paying duties and taxes to various countries, promotion, and maintaining customer feedback and rating systems are a one-time thing.

I bet it gets even more fun if you want to implement your own copy-protection scheme to avoid going broke. If I remember coverage of the whole Ambrosia software thing back then (say, did Andrew Welch ever move to get President Bush impeached as he said he would if no WMD were found in Iraq?), I'm pretty sure that just MAINTAINING that infrastructure ALONE is probably more expensive than just forking over 30% to a middleman who takes care of it (and EVERYTHING else, including pushing updates to all your users) for you.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 05:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Right, because bookkeeping, keeping track of international sales, checking for changed regulations regarding sales in various locations, paying duties and taxes to various countries, promotion, and maintaining customer feedback and rating systems are a one-time thing.
I don't know either way. It would be interesting to see some comparison numbers. Are digital downloads subject to duties and taxes? Regulations? Are you basing this off of something you read?
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2011, 07:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't know either way. It would be interesting to see some comparison numbers. Are digital downloads subject to duties and taxes? Regulations? Are you basing this off of something you read?
Yep.

As I recall, Rogue Amoeba stopped distribution of Airfoil to EU customers a few years back when it turned out they would be arrested for tax evasion, should they try to travel to Europe. (They got it sorted out.)

It's your responsibility as the vendor to make sure the appropriate taxes are paid to the countries in which your paying customers reside.

Did that just add a legal and tax advisory cost overhead of several thousand dollars to your "independent" little software business?

Whoops.
( Last edited by Spheric Harlot; Jan 8, 2011 at 07:07 PM. )
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2011, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
It's your responsibility as the vendor to make sure the appropriate taxes are paid to the countries in which your paying customers reside.
Only if the revenue exceeds a certain amount for a certain country. Unless that amount has been dropped recently, that's a pretty big number. I remember that it took Amazon.co.uk quite some time before they had to charge taxes for shipping to Sweden
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2011, 06:32 PM
 
The UK has special trade status with other EU countries, even though they're not formally a Schengen member state.

The limits for businesses outside of the EU are *quite* different - for non-electronic trade, the limit is €40, IIRC. Not forty thousand. Forty. I had to pay VAT and import duties on the iPhoto album that Apple shipped here from the US.
For non-EU businesses doing electronic commerce, that threshold amount is set per country, and is (according to wikipedia) typically €30,000 or €100,000.

The onus is on YOU to keep track of sales per country, and pay the appropriate sales tax.

So a) you have to spend your work time (or pay somebody) to keep track of these sales by IP, to keep track of regulations and taxation requirements FOR EACH COUNTRY WORLDWIDE, and b) in some countries, that may mean that once you hit €30,000, *boom* you're paying 20% of that and anything above in taxes, end of story. *May*. It may be that only the amount that lies above that threshold is taxable. I trust you, as a developer, have a degree specialized in international tax law? Everybody does, right?

So, did you figure VAT into the original price? Or did your payment service take care of that? Did you make sure to point it out on your website that VAT will be added? If not, you may be guilty of false advertising in some jurisdictions. But you have a law degree in international law, right?

IIRC, Rogue Amoeba suddenly hit that limit somewhere in Europe a couple years ago, and it took them a *lot* of effort (and probably expense) to clear it up. They had to stop distribution of Airfoil in the meantime.

And suddenly, that 30% cut really doesn't look bad at all.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:01 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,