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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Anyone think Apple Pay will be a bigger deal than the Apple Watch?

Anyone think Apple Pay will be a bigger deal than the Apple Watch?
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OreoCookie
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Sep 10, 2014, 01:32 PM
 
I certainly think so, but what are your thoughts? Everybody in the developed world has a wallet, a debit and potentially also a credit card, but not everyone wants a watch at their wrist, let alone a smart watch. They brought the major players in the US on board (I guess it will take time to cover the EU and other countries around the world, though), Apple Pay (if it works as advertised) is significantly more secure than credit cards and also shaves off time during the purchasing process. I'm more excited about that than the iWatch, because I'm not sure whether I can (and want to) afford an Apple Watch (or any other smart watch), but I'd definitely use Apple Pay if given the choice.
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osiris
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Sep 10, 2014, 02:27 PM
 
It's huge. The US has been living in the stone ages with this stuff. It's about time we have something similar here, only better because you can have so many different accounts on one system. I think this will be a success, be it by watch or phone.
( Last edited by osiris; Sep 10, 2014 at 03:29 PM. )
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subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 02:32 PM
 
I make use of the RFID on my credit card whenever possible, so I think people will like it, but I'm not sure of the advantage over an RFID card other than the chip and PIN angle, or for people with tons of different cards (I only have one).

I already take out my wallet and slap it on the sensor. Don't see the need to change that.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 10, 2014, 02:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I already take out my wallet and slap it on the sensor. Don't see the need to change that.
I have more than one card with an RFID chip, so the wallet strategy doesn't work for me. And besides, RFID chips can be read from a distance, so wallets which shield against RFID readers are an actual thing.
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subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 02:53 PM
 
With a credit card, I'm not too worried about security. Both because I'm not liable, and because the Fraud Protection algorithm errs heavily on the false positive side.

I've radically cut my wallet down into a "front pocket" model, and retained only what's absolutely necessary:

Driver's license
Bond card
ZipCard (car sharing)
Credit card
Emergency $100
Emergency $20
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 10, 2014, 03:16 PM
 
I just hope its not another one of those services that Apple takes forever to bring to other countries.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 10, 2014, 03:21 PM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 03:27 PM
 
I'm not sure I see the business model here. Is someone who wouldn't be using a credit card now using ApplePie?
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Sep 10, 2014, 03:53 PM
 
The business model is Apple taking a piece of the pie from people who have credit cards and iPhones. Income where there was none.
     
subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 03:57 PM
 
That doesn't explain the benefit to the bank.

The only way I can imagine this helps them is by driving more credit card purchases.

Are there people who would use their credit card but don't because there isn't AP greasing the process?
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That doesn't explain the benefit to the bank.
The benefit is not to the bank, it's to the user. Which is why credit cards with a magnetic strip have been around for several decades. I reckon the only benefit to a bank is that they are protected to some degree and Apple will have to take on some of the risks that traditionally credit card companies covered. I guess Apple's big pull is that they have the records of half a billion people who could potentially participate.

The only reasons I have a credit card is that (1) I can make purchases online and (2) it's easier to pay abroad. If Apple Pay is my new credit card, I'm totally ok with that.
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subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:20 PM
 
Is AP going to work with any credit card, or only ones through banks who have signed a deal with Apple?

The Bloomberg article implies the latter.
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:29 PM
 
The latter.
     
subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:41 PM
 
The article also says Apple gets a cut of the transaction fee, which with a normal transaction would go entirely to the bank.

What is Apple offering the bank in exchange for this? My instincts tell me "benefit to the user" isn't the reason.

The typical reason you enter into this kind of arrangement is you expect to make up the loss with increased volume. Is this supposed to come from people jumping banks to be compatible?
     
turtle777
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Sep 10, 2014, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I make use of the RFID on my credit card whenever possible, so I think people will like it, but I'm not sure of the advantage over an RFID card other than the chip and PIN angle, or for people with tons of different cards (I only have one).

I already take out my wallet and slap it on the sensor. Don't see the need to change that.
I never trusted the RFID chip credit cards.

I always drilled a hole in the chip, and used the magnetic strip only.
Probably irrational, but hey. I wanted to stay away from any discussion with the CC company in case of fraud, where they would decline my claim because I used a "secure payment method" (I.e. RFID). Everybody knows card numbers or magnetic strips are not secure, so nobody's gonna fight you in the case of a claim.

I'll be on board with Apple Pay because of TouchID.

-t
     
Rumor
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Sep 10, 2014, 06:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm not sure I see the business model here. Is someone who wouldn't be using a credit card now using ApplePie?
Mmmm, pie...
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subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I never trusted the RFID chip credit cards.

I always drilled a hole in the chip, and used the magnetic strip only.
Probably irrational, but hey. I wanted to stay away from any discussion with the CC company in case of fraud, where they would decline my claim because I used a "secure payment method" (I.e. RFID). Everybody knows card numbers or magnetic strips are not secure, so nobody's gonna fight you in the case of a claim.

I'll be on board with Apple Pay because of TouchID.

-t
I'm confused.

Are you concerned about a fraudulent transaction showing up as an RFID transaction?

That could only happen if someone steals the physical card.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 10, 2014, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That could only happen if someone steals the physical card.
No, you can read out RFID tags from a distance. The feature that you can place your wallet on the RFID reader and have it register can also be a serious bug.
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subego
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Sep 10, 2014, 07:27 PM
 
That's not what I'm asking.

The claim (if I understand it) is the CC company would dispute the fraud because it used a "'secure transaction'". The RFID.

That can only be done by someone who has the physical card.

What you're talking about is snarfing up the CC number, which then gets fraudulently used for non-RFID transactions. Those aren't going to be disputed as fraud.

At least, this is how I see it.
As I said, I'm confused.


Edit: oh wait... I think I get it.
     
el chupacabra
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Sep 10, 2014, 07:55 PM
 
I think it's going to be huge. Especially after watching them make that public power display of giving away an album to grab everyone's credit card numbers. If they played their cards right this could be a shoe-in to becoming a credit card company.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 10, 2014, 07:59 PM
 
The trend is that people are increasingly using their phones to pay for things one way or another, be it an app or an NFC system. The banks want to be on board with the system(s) that will drive this trend and they want them to be secure.
Apple is largely held to give the best retail experience in the world so big retail chains are happy to jump on board so when Apple comes to your bank and says "we have every store that matters signed up and if you don't come with us you'll be the only one who doesn't" you get on board too.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
el chupacabra
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Sep 10, 2014, 09:37 PM
 
Korea they've been doing phone payments for years. I hear it popular with vending machines. I wouldn't be suprised if apple is working with vending companies behind scenes. it would save vending companies time and money not having to maintain the machinery of/or physical money as often. S.Korea announces major push to pay-by-phone services | Reuters
An old article
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 11, 2014, 07:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
Korea they've been doing phone payments for years.
Ditto for Japan, you can pay for drinks and stuff at vending machines with your cell phone.
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OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 11, 2014, 07:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Apple is largely held to give the best retail experience in the world so big retail chains are happy to jump on board so when Apple comes to your bank and says "we have every store that matters signed up and if you don't come with us you'll be the only one who doesn't" you get on board too.
Yeah, I forgot to include that: Apple Pay isn't necessarily »good« for banks, but it's good for users and (online and brick & mortar) shops.
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 11, 2014, 08:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I certainly think so, but what are your thoughts?
Yeah, I think you nailed it. And the response of thread seems to agree. Kind of funny considering all the hype is on the watch.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Bond card
I completely misread that as Bong Card
     
subego
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Sep 11, 2014, 03:23 PM
 
The name's Bong. Jimbo Bong.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 11, 2014, 03:25 PM
 
It would have made sense if you live in Cali
     
   
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