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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > What will the GOP do if Trump gets nominated?

What will the GOP do if Trump gets nominated? (Page 2)
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BadKosh
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Dec 18, 2015, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I'm inclined to agree with you for once. If the GOP is now set on this path of embracing only the unelectable loony candidates they are done for.
How many consecutive terms of Democrat rule would it take for the RW media to finish them off by making them even crazier than they are already?
There isn't a RW media so much as a bunch of leftwing propaganda. You don't notice because you are a lefty already. Local news is mostly clips of MSNBC, ABC, CBS and CNN folks opinionating instead of reporting "news". Hillary seems more unelectable, especially since the Democrat party and Debbie washed-up Shits has made sure to hide Hillarys 3 debates on weekends so we wouldn't watch her be a fowl horrid mechanical hag. She is still under FBI investigation and the Intel folks keep telling the FBI that those WERE Top Secret documents being mis-handled on that unsecure server, so with others being charged for less, this may be bad for the Clinton campaign. Obama's performance will chase more folks to a Republican than more Democrats. It swings back n forth that way.
     
subego
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Dec 18, 2015, 01:13 PM
 
Don't you work for NASA?

On the surface, there's an inconsistency between your anti-federal stance, and working for a federal organization.

This isn't a "gotcha" point. I'm genuinely curious about the non-surface explanation.

I mean, I'm anti-federal and pro-military, so it's not like I'm unfamiliar with the inconsistency, and presume like I do with the military, you have an explanation which goes beyond the surface.
     
BadKosh
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Dec 18, 2015, 01:34 PM
 
I'm not in the political/political appointee arena.
I'm not anti-federal, just against the idiots who keep making it bigger and more wasteful and inefficient (like the Obama Admin).
I'm a tech supporting other contractors (graphic artists & NASA TV).
I'm a very strong INTJ problem solver so I get around.
I've been told I'm pretty damn funny too.
     
And.reg
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Dec 18, 2015, 01:36 PM
 
Donald Trump turned himself into a total sell out this year. He wants to use his big mouth but also publicly makes himself friends with everyone, including former political foes and those who are against the Christian culture. Recall that Donald Trump once blasted the Republican party 10 years ago during his short reign as a Democrat. Now he's friends with the Bushes.

I repeat:

Donald Trump sold out.

If he becomes president, then you all, once again, will be let down for at least another four years.

(Come back to this post in 2017-2020 if he gets elected and realize that you knew he sold out but you just didn't want to acknowledge it.)

Start researching other candidates. Start getting away from the two big parties and their $1 trillion campaign to bash each other (that's your money hard at work), and consider the value of alternate parties.
     
subego
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Dec 18, 2015, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
I'm not in the political/political appointee arena.
I'm not anti-federal, just against the idiots who keep making it bigger and more wasteful and inefficient (like the Obama Admin).
I'm a tech supporting other contractors (graphic artists & NASA TV).
I'm a very strong INTJ problem solver so I get around.
I've been told I'm pretty damn funny too.
Interesting. Thanks for the reply!
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 18, 2015, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Are you saying they should, or that they are likely to? Because I can sorta agree that they should, the Dems are (from an outsider perspective) a bit of an unholy union, but that's the sort fo thing that happens in a two party system. If you're saying that they're likely to, I disagree. We don't see the same sorts of public disagreements that we see on the GOP side.
That doesn't surprise me, no media outlets, not even Fox, are focusing on the core shifts in the Left.
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The Final Dakar
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Dec 18, 2015, 06:25 PM
 
[QUOTE=OAW;4341487]Perhaps it's because he's a dead-ringer for Sen. Joseph McCarthy? Both in looks and tone? /QUOTE]Hey, that's my schtick!

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Absolutely, Hillary is as scared of having to fight with Bernie over substance as many of the Republican power brokers are of Trump. (“What if the delegates choose the ‘wrong’ candidate?”)
I think it's simpler: The Clinton's like to govern by consensus, and a fight over progressive ideals with Bernie undermines her moderate positions come presidential election time.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think one thing is to completely stop with this primary system: let all people who are currently eligible to vote in primaries vote on the same day. (This goes for Democrats and Republicans alike.) This way candidates don't have to pander to the extreme to avoid losing momentum. Iowa and New Hampshire are rather peculiar states, and to win an election, you need to win the more populous states whose idea of being a Democrat or Republican is very different.
Honestly, the easiest fix I can think of is let everyone have 1 vote in each party primary. I'm sure people will scream about the vote getting rigged by provocateurs, but I just don't see that level of organization taking place on a national level. If anything I see many people just not voting in more than one primary because they hate all the other candidates.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
It would also shorten the extremely long period of where people start campaigning.
Between that and money its basically an arms-race. The only way it will ever change is through much maligned regulation, and after the destruction of McCain-Feingold, I don't see another attempt being made for a while.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
They are both outsiders, Trump is an independent trying to run on a Republican ticket while Sanders is a self-declared socialist. Both break the mold and don't play by the rules the other candidates seem to accept, and point out similar weaknesses in the current system (e. g. the role that money).
It's actually kind of refreshing that two candidates that clearly don't fit the party mold have been able to gather so much attention. The downside is its put the parties on notice that they need to tighten their grip on the reins. Hopefully more americans notice what they're doing.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
(Just to be clear: if Trump wants to run as an independent, he has the right to, and I have no problem with that. I'm just writing from the perspective of Republican power brokers.)
A lot of states now have anti-spoiler laws to prevent defeated candidates from going third-party to get on the ballot. More party protection.

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
Its really the those Tea Party morons fault that we're in this position.
We needed more heavy handed leadership 8 years ago to beat them into submission.
That's an interesting assertion. The tea party just doesn't give enough ****s for that to work. These guys were jihading their 'own' side by primarying moderate or bargaining candidates, which in a few cases probably did cost the party some seats. But no party is going to play the long-game. You take the seats now and hope you can control and keep them versus having a revolution and getting fractured in the short term.

The 2016 election represents that perfectly: Rather than embrace the popular opinion on gay marriage and tone down the rhetoric on immigration, which might be risky, they just delving harder into those views they know the base will eat up. And who can blame the candidates? The more 'reasonable' voices have been completely drowned out appeals to war and xenophobia. They'd rather take the win now than a chance of a win later.

As for the anti-establishmentarians, the tea-partiers, etc., they'll need to learnt he lesson the hard way (A 'true-believer' getting crushed in the general,) like the tea party caucus got it's dreams crushed. The only problem with this theory: The government shutdown failed and they are undeterred.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 18, 2015, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
The GOP is worthless. Even WITH a majority in both houses they cannot make the tough decisions, even to shut down the useless FedGov. This is why I think they are almost done. At least their "Leadershit" positions. They have proven to be inarticulate, wimpy, lacking guts and a clear set of objectives and a way to get things done. The Democrats are too left, wrongheaded, and in a dream world and that is hurting our country too. BOTH major parties are horrid and the regular Joe is caught in the middle with nobody actually looking out for them or representing his interests.

Nobody has commented on the impact the propagandist media and indoctrinations in schools have had or our citizens.
Does this mean you agree or disagree?
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Absolutely agree.

That's why we need a major shakeup.

And the only candidate who is not beholden to the current powers, is financially independent to survive on his own, and has the guts to attack the status quo is Donald Trump.

Like him or not, he's the best shot at change. Let's just hope it turns out for the better.

-t
This is what the GOP are up against. People who think somehow shutting the government down will solve all their problems.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 18, 2015, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It does save time, but intellectual laziness doesn't benefit anyone.
Did...did you think that was a serious answer?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Am I missing something? It's the same "formula", the same methods.
That's not my understanding of how it works.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If anyone here splits it'll be the Left, into the Democratic (center) and Progressive Socialist (far Left) parties. The shift towards conformity and collectivism (at the cost of our basic civil liberties) is unmistakable.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 18, 2015, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Donald Trump turned himself into a total sell out this year. He wants to use his big mouth but also publicly makes himself friends with everyone, including former political foes and those who are against the Christian culture. Recall that Donald Trump once blasted the Republican party 10 years ago during his short reign as a Democrat. Now he's friends with the Bushes.
I'm somewhat amused by the concept that he's not beholden to business interests because he's self-financing. He may not be beholden to outside business interests, but the man has business interests all across the globe and I don't see him working in a vacuum from those facts.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 18, 2015, 06:42 PM
 
Apologies for the spamming, but I was bored at work and I heard something interesting, so I did some research. Apparently, since 1960, every presidential candidate in either party has finished in the Top 2 in New Hampshire primary. I then looked at 2012: Mitt Romney had a sizable lead in NH since the summer of '11. Trump has had an even bigger lead in NH all summer. (Source RCP, which is not a complete aggregate, but since I'm not being scientific, is beyond the point).

The 2012 NH polls also showed some tussling and changes for second place in the week before the primary. So, two guesses based on all this data:

1. Trump will likely win NH based on his consistent lead in primary polls.
2. If he finished in the Top 2, he has a "50/50" chance of getting the nomination.

Despair.
     
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Dec 18, 2015, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Absolutely agree.

That's why we need a major shakeup.

And the only candidate who is not beholden to the current powers, is financially independent to survive on his own, and has the guts to attack the status quo is Donald Trump.

Like him or not, he's the best shot at change. Let's just hope it turns out for the better.

-t
I'm sympathetic to that position, I really am, but...

I've heard that sentiment before, from some Italian friends, almost word for word. They were speaking about Silvio Berlusconi. That didn't turn out so great. The political system didn't change, and they're still in much the same trouble - and Berlusconi remains an embarrassment.

(I also don't think the US is in as bad shape as Italy was when Berlusconi came to power, so I don't think Trump can win even if he gets nominated.)
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
turtle777
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Dec 18, 2015, 09:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I'm sympathetic to that position, I really am, but...

I've heard that sentiment before, from some Italian friends, almost word for word. They were speaking about Silvio Berlusconi. That didn't turn out so great. The political system didn't change, and they're still in much the same trouble - and Berlusconi remains an embarrassment.
I agree, it might not work.

But I'd take a 20% chance of it working over a 1,000% chance of being f*cked over by the current bastards.
Neither Dems nor GOP are actually even TRYING to change anything. They are rotten to the core.

-t
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Dec 19, 2015, 01:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Did...did you think that was a serious answer?
Flippant, but yeah. I'd trust him over the Hildabeast.

That's not my understanding of how it works.
It is mine.

I guess you're not watching the spectacle happening right now between Sanders and the DNC/Clinton. It wouldn't take much for Sanders to split off and run on a Socialist ticket, if he wins his suit over the DNC to get his voter data, getting the Dem nomination would be impossible.
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Chongo
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Dec 19, 2015, 10:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post



I guess you're not watching the spectacle happening right now between Sanders and the DNC/Clinton. It wouldn't take much for Sanders to split off and run on a Socialist ticket, if he wins his suit over the DNC to get his voter data, getting the Dem nomination would be impossible.
Looks like it might get nasty.
Dem rivalry takes nasty turn | TheHill

After data breach fight, Clinton and Sanders face off at Democratic debate

Clinton goes for the jugular after data breach - POLITICO

Let,s see if the DNC and Clinton are willing to alienate the Sanders supporters.
     
BadKosh
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Dec 19, 2015, 10:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This is what the GOP are up against. People who think somehow shutting the government down will solve all their problems.
You are missing the larger picture. Screwing around playing politics instead of RESPONSIBLE governance is the issue. Obama and Harry Reid played the game a couple of years ago. YOU thought it was the Republicans fault, while back in JUNE the Democrats started printing up the "Closed" signs. I know folks in the Gov't printing office who were discussing it over the July 4th holiday. It was specifically done with help of the MSM to vilify the GOP, who were trying to stop the hideous costly and inefficient Obamacare, which if you've been paying attention has backfired on the Dems. The gov't has been shut many times over wasteful spending and irresponsible legislation. The problms are much worse now with over 100K syrian 'refugees' in this country, mostly unvetted, and the Obama admin won't even say where they are. President LIAR and his admin have caused a lot of costly damage to our country, and have put all of us at risk, while continuing to whine about gun control, while letting the Iranians build Nukes. He just admited he doesn't watch any news and was 'unaware; of how the country feels about things like the recent terror attacks. If he did perhaps he would understand that HIS policies caused this, along with the incompetent political appointees he has filled the agencies with.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Dec 21, 2015, 06:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
There isn't a RW media so much as a bunch of leftwing propaganda. You don't notice because you are a lefty already. Local news is mostly clips of MSNBC, ABC, CBS and CNN folks opinionating instead of reporting "news".
If anything being a lefty would make the leftwing 'propaganda' look like reasoned, objective news reporting to me which it often does. Of course it would also look that way if it were reasoned, objective news reporting.
The RW media is very much real and you might as well be a mouthpiece for it. Failing that a shining example of its brainwashing power.

Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Hillary seems more unelectable, She is still under FBI investigation and the Intel folks keep telling the FBI that those WERE Top Secret documents being mis-handled on that unsecure server, so with others being charged for less, this may be bad for the Clinton campaign. Obama's performance will chase more folks to a Republican than more Democrats. It swings back n forth that way.
This is a combination of evidence of my prior point and wishful thinking on your part.
If it weren't for the non-existent RW media's decade-long hate campaign against Hilary then she would be a dead cert for president.

Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
I've been told I'm pretty damn funny too.
You certainly make me laugh. Almost as much as you make me want to cry.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c
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Dec 21, 2015, 08:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I agree, it might not work.

But I'd take a 20% chance of it working over a 1,000% chance of being f*cked over by the current bastards.
Neither Dems nor GOP are actually even TRYING to change anything. They are rotten to the core.

-t

But I suppose you aren't a fan of Bernie Sanders?
     
BadKosh
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Dec 21, 2015, 10:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
If anything being a lefty would make the leftwing 'propaganda' look like reasoned, objective news reporting to me which it often does. Of course it would also look that way if it were reasoned, objective news reporting.
The RW media is very much real and you might as well be a mouthpiece for it. Failing that a shining example of its brainwashing power.



This is a combination of evidence of my prior point and wishful thinking on your part.
If it weren't for the non-existent RW media's decade-long hate campaign against Hilary then she would be a dead cert for president.



You certainly make me laugh. Almost as much as you make me want to cry.
Hillary IS a horrid, lying incompetent, which you can see for yourself. She's doing it to herself. All you have to do to see what KIND of supporters she has to realize they are extremely uninformed and gullible. Most can't tell you a single accomplishment she's had, other than being first 'lady'. Her BS is obviously rehearsed, and seldom actually answers the question. Buzzwords don't get it.
     
BadKosh
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Dec 21, 2015, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
But I suppose you aren't a fan of Bernie Sanders?
Mr. "BS" is a socialist wack job, rehashing old unworkable trash to gullible young fools who have no idea how government works.
     
Chongo
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Dec 21, 2015, 01:44 PM
 
Word.
     
subego
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Dec 21, 2015, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
If it weren't for the non-existent RW media's decade-long hate campaign against Hilary then she would be a dead cert for president.
Yeah. The Republicans so poisoned her brand she's being legitimately challenged by an honest person.
     
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Dec 21, 2015, 02:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yeah. The Republicans so poisoned her brand she's being legitimately challenged by an honest person.
Yep. She's a legitimately shitty human being. Not someone you'd ever want to know personally. Does that mean she'd be an ineffective president? Not really. But I wouldn't want to ever spend time with her, as opposed to Sanders, who seems like a decent person... a little crazy maybe, but still a good guy.
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The Final Dakar
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Dec 21, 2015, 06:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I guess you're not watching the spectacle happening right now between Sanders and the DNC/Clinton. It wouldn't take much for Sanders to split off and run on a Socialist ticket, if he wins his suit over the DNC to get his voter data, getting the Dem nomination would be impossible.
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Looks like it might get nasty.
So you guys think six months of passive-aggressive friction makes the DNC more likely to split than years of overt aggression from the tea party?

I am I reading you guys right?
     
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Dec 21, 2015, 06:22 PM
 
6 months? The Left has been splitting for >10 years, the Socialists simply haven't had a candidate until now.
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Dec 21, 2015, 07:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Most can't tell you a single accomplishment she's had, other than being first 'lady'.
What accomplishments should she have? I heard she was Secretary of State for a bit.

Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Her BS is obviously rehearsed, and seldom actually answers the question. Buzzwords don't get it.
Thats how politicians are supposed to be. Slippery and evasive but articulate and sane.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Dec 21, 2015, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
6 months? The Left has been splitting for >10 years, the Socialists simply haven't had a candidate until now.
I think you are disconnected. I don't see a real ideological divide among the left, just people that wouldn't go as far as others on some things.
     
subego
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Dec 21, 2015, 08:46 PM
 
Down. Goes. Graham.
     
Chongo
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Dec 21, 2015, 09:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
What accomplishments should she have? I heard she was Secretary of State for a bit.i
This worked out well, almost as good as Syria and Libya.
     
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Dec 22, 2015, 12:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I think you are disconnected.
You've been projecting that for years, it makes it impossible to take you seriously.
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Dec 22, 2015, 03:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
This worked out well, almost as good as Syria and Libya.
Overblown hatred of Hillary is not going to win the elections or give Republicans any respect. Part of Trump's “appeal” to a subset of the conservative base is that despite having a majority in both chambers, they're still unable to pass important pieces of legislation. And they can no longer blame Democrats for it.
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Dec 22, 2015, 07:43 AM
 
I cannot for the life of me imagine anything good that Trump will do as president. Instead, maybe he'll paint the white house gold... Start selling white house souvenirs with his name on them, made in China? POTUSTRUMP Water? With the profits going to Trump Industry? Turn DC into Atlantic City with abandoned casinos everywhere?

I'm only half joking.
     
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Dec 22, 2015, 10:27 AM
 
Or rent out rooms at the White House...Oh, Wait.. Been done during Clintons terms.

funny that so few understand that the tea party wants smaller government and lots less wasteful spending of our tax dollars
Taxed Enough Already! So sad if the lefties can't keep handing out millions to community organizers like ACORN, Unions, etc.
     
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Dec 22, 2015, 10:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
What accomplishments should she have? I heard she was Secretary of State for a bit.
You didn't list her time as a Senator. Hmmm..... So other than help to destabilize the middle east ,and make a fool of herself what else?

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Thats how politicians are supposed to be. Slippery and evasive but articulate and sane.
Perhaps in your damaged EU world. SANE? Really? A Pathological liar?
     
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Dec 22, 2015, 11:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I cannot for the life of me imagine anything good that Trump will do as president.
Heck, I'd be happy if a President would simply NOT do more damage.

Washington politics are not meant to do any good except for the politician's purse.

One thing I'm more confident in Trump than most other politicians is that he won't do stuff simply to pad his own pockets. He doesn't need that.

Example Clintons: Hillary and Bill are estimated to have made at least $30 million over the last 16 months. WTF ?
It's quite clear that they are selling favors:

A mining deal led to a $100 million donation to the William J. Clinton Foundation.361
•Chinese firm Rilin Enterprises made a $2 million foundation pledge . . . to get rights to build the new Chinese Embassy in Washington.362
•The Wall Street Journal reported that as secretary of state, Hillary didn’t stop the foundation from raising millions of dollars from foreigners with connections to their home governments.363
•Algeria gave the Clintons $500K, Hillary approved $5M of tear gas exports, and then Algeria gassed its own people364
•The New York Post claimed to know of 181 Clinton Foundation donors who also lobbied Hillary’s State Department365
•Bill Clinton sought paid speeches in North Korea and the Congo according to e-mails: His price tag in the Congo would have been $650K—probably more than the country’s annual GDP.366
•Clinton aides started a Canadian charity that, despite a pledge of transparency, shielded the identities of donors who gave more than $33 million.367
•Cisco dumped $1 million into the Clinton Foundation . . . and won the Foundation’s award for “outstanding corporate citizenship.”368
•Uranium One’s chairman used his family foundation to make four donations totaling $2.35 million . . . eventually cutting a deal with the Russians to buy Uranium One.369
•The State Department approved sales of uranium to Russia as Hillary’s family foundation hauled in $145 million from investors in the deal.370
•Frank Giustra, a mining financier, has donated $31.3 million to the foundation.371
•Work for Ex-Im Bank by the State Department was followed, a couple of months later, by a $200,000 speaking fee for Bill at Goldman.372
•Hillary intervened for UBS to get it out of a jam with the IRS and soon thereafter Bill was invited to give a $1.5 million talk.373
•The Clinton State Department gave Algeria a one-year, 70% jump in U.S. arms deals just after the Algerian government donated to the Clintons.374
•Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, and Qatar donated to the Clinton Foundation . . . to gain State Department clearance to buy caches of American-made weapons even as the department singled them out for a range of alleged evils.375
•The foundation received between $50,000 and $100,000 from the scandal ridden FIFA . . . to help chose a few cities for the World Cup.376
•Qatar’s World Cup hosting committee donated hundreds of thousands to the Clinton Foundation377
•Arizona State University raised tuition yet spent $500,000 on the Clintons. I imagine the institution did not lose money on the deal.378
•Bill Clinton received $16.46 million in payments from a George Soros–backed for-profit education company as Hillary Clinton’s State Department funneled tens of millions of dollars to a group run by the company’s chairman.379
•Colombian oil money flowed to the foundation . . . as the State Department took no action to prevent labor violations.380
•Bill got $2.5 million in speaking fees from Silicon Valley tech companies while Hillary handed out $40 billion in contracts to the same companies.381
•Hillary took Monsanto (GMO) money, which must drive the Democrats nuts.382
•Other disclosures include 27 speeches delivered by all three Clintons at universities and professional schools. Hillary supported $350 billion in free tuition (free for everyone except the taxpayer).383
•The Clinton son-in-law raised millions from longtime Clinton supporters for a new hedge fund firm, Eaglevale Partners, in 2011.384
•The CEO of Solazyme received $149 per gallon of gasoline from the military and donated between $100,000 and $250,000 to the foundation.385
•The Rockefeller Foundation appears to have donated hundreds of millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation. How weird is that?386
•Hollywood collectively ponied up $15 million expecting nothing at all, and that is what they will get.387
2015 Year In Review (Part 2) | Peak Prosperity

-t
     
andi*pandi
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Dec 22, 2015, 12:27 PM
 
One thing I'm more confident in Trump than most other politicians is that he won't do stuff simply to pad his own pockets. He doesn't need that.
Seriously? There's never enough money. His whole reason for being is to market himself, his properties, his business. Trump Water. It's a thing. Heck, I think his whole campaign is a win-win for him, if he loses he still has brand recognition, and there's no such thing as bad publicity. Always be selling.

If John Kerry was a flip-flopper, Trump is a windsock: he blows whatever way the wind blows. 10 years ago a dem, now a far right conservative. 10 years from now who knows.

As for the Clintons... If you want to criticize politicians who make money, you should be with Bernie.
     
Chongo
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Dec 22, 2015, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Heck, I'd be happy if a President would simply NOT do more damage.

Washington politics are not meant to do any good except for the politician's purse.

One thing I'm more confident in Trump than most other politicians is that he won't do stuff simply to pad his own pockets. He doesn't need that.

Example Clintons: Hillary and Bill are estimated to have made at least $30 million over the last 16 months. WTF ?
It's quite clear that they are selling favors:



2015 Year In Review (Part 2) | Peak Prosperity

-t
According to OreoCookie that is overblown Hillary hate.
     
turtle777
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Dec 22, 2015, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
As for the Clintons... If you want to criticize politicians who make money, you should be with Bernie.
Bless your soul if you don't understand the difference between honest "making money", and "stealing" and "extorting" money.

In that case, Hillary serves you well right.

-t
     
Waragainstsleep
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Dec 22, 2015, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
You didn't list her time as a Senator. Hmmm..... So other than help to destabilize the middle east, and make a fool of herself what else?
So rather than tell me the qualifications you claim she should have but doesn't, you've added to my list of decent, relevant qualifications and then made up two piss-weak accusations that are supposed to completely overshadow being a senator and the Secretary of State. Thats really quite pathetic as debating goes.
Most GOP candidates make fools of themselves every other time they open their mouths.
I don't know how you imagine she single-handedly destabilised the Middle East that two guys called Bush invaded.


Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Perhaps in your damaged EU world. SANE? Really? A Pathological liar?
Bless. Almost all politicians are liars. If they are sane, they lie for a reason. The current crop of Republicans are idiots and/or assholes as well as liars.
Of course, being an asshole doesn't make you a bad President if you're the sort of asshole who sometimes treats others like shit in order to get things done (like Steve Jobs), but when your plan is to be an asshole to vast swathes of the populace you are supposed to serve, you have no business being in office.
( Last edited by Waragainstsleep; Dec 23, 2015 at 06:58 AM. )
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi
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Dec 22, 2015, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Bless your soul if you don't understand the difference between honest "making money", and "stealing" and "extorting" money.

In that case, Hillary serves you well right.

-t
You think Trump makes his money honestly, or would do any differently? Please. He's as slimy as they come.

It's not that I'm very pro-Hillary at this point... but there's a billion people I'd vote for before Trump.
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2015, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
You think Trump makes his money honestly, or would do any differently? Please. He's as slimy as they come.

It's not that I'm very pro-Hillary at this point... but there's a billion people I'd vote for before Trump.

The process of reconciliation of things that do not pass smell tests and justification of support for Trump is evidently well underway. I guess they see him as a serious possibility for earning the nomination.

I'm just curious what the exact argument is against Bernie Sanders (and I have no doubt there is one), because so far it sounds like he's the anti-thesis of what is disliked about Clinton, and maybe even Trump to some extent. I would imagine it is some sort of vague comment about spending too much money or something.

At this point, a politician that is not paid for by big corporations (if this really does apply to Sanders) would be a win over all else, I would think...

That being said, I'm not fooling myself into thinking that any one person is really going to make as much difference as we would like. It is going to take a massive movement to lessen the influence of money in politics, which I believe is the biggest fundamental issue in the US right now.
     
subego
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Dec 22, 2015, 06:27 PM
 
The only real argument against Sanders is you don't agree with his politics.

I really don't, but I don't agree with Clinton's politics either, however she's a bigger scumbag than Sanders by about an order of magnitude.

He definitely has my primary vote. I'm not a Democrat, but in Chicago, you either vote in the Democratic primary or don't get a say in local politics.
     
turtle777
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Dec 22, 2015, 06:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
You think Trump makes his money honestly, or would do any differently? Please. He's as slimy as they come.
There is a HUGE issue.

Nobody is forced to buy Trump's goods / services, stay at his resorts & hotels, buy any of his products. We still have a choice.

The Clintons are using their political status and power to "sell" favors.
Political favoritism and corruption has a HUGE negative impact on our society. No voter has a CHOICE in that. The Clintons don't provide any added value to society, they are like parasites.

So, no matter how "slimy" Trump is, he still is more honest, because he operates in a (more or less) free market environment.

-t
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2015, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
There is a HUGE issue.

Nobody is forced to buy Trump's goods / services, stay at his resorts & hotels, buy any of his products. We still have a choice.

The Clintons are using their political status and power to "sell" favors.
Political favoritism and corruption has a HUGE negative impact on our society. No voter has a CHOICE in that. The Clintons don't provide any added value to society, they are like parasites.

So, no matter how "slimy" Trump is, he still is more honest, because he operates in a (more or less) free market environment.

-t

The Clinton Global Initiative provides no value to society? Are you kidding?
     
turtle777
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Dec 22, 2015, 06:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The Clinton Global Initiative provides no value to society? Are you kidding?
At what cost ? Nobody looks at that.

It doesn't count if they provide x value at 10x the cost to society (due to taxes, corruption, regulation etc...).

-t
     
besson3c
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Dec 22, 2015, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
At what cost ? Nobody looks at that.

It doesn't count if they provide x value at 10x the cost to society (due to taxes, corruption, regulation etc...).

-t

It's a nonprofit. They fight diseases and stuff. You know this, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinto...tive_.28CGI.29

The Bill Gates Foundation donated more than $25M to the CGI. Are they inefficient with their money and politically driven too?

I'll grant you that it is definitely foggy where politics begin and end with this foundation, but nobody is forcing anybody to donate to the foundation, and it should be clear to anybody that isn't a hopeless partisan that they have done an incredible amount of good around the world.
     
turtle777
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Dec 22, 2015, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I'll grant you that it is definitely foggy where politics begin and end with this foundation, but nobody is forcing anybody to donate to the foundation, .....
Apparently, you completely ignored the facts that I posted above.

"Donating" to the Clinton foundation resulted in "kickbacks" and political favors for the donors.
This has nothing to do with charitable work, but with corruption and creating a "legal" facade for racketeering activities.

It doesn't matter that not was "voluntary"; most bribes and kickbacks are.

-t
     
Chongo
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Dec 22, 2015, 10:26 PM
 
Here comes the choo choo train!
     
andi*pandi
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Dec 22, 2015, 10:34 PM
 
Sure. Capitalism. Gotcha. No one has to buy a Trump cap. I'll allow that idiots will be idiots, and the same idiots who buy Trump Tower souvenirs are probably the same idiots who will vote for him.

However, do you really think all his businesses are run ethically? Do you think all the crappy falling apart "luxury" hotels in Atlantic City were built on the up and up with no kickbacks, backroom deals, or handshakes? Do you think he doesn't have Hollywood connections and friends in various industries that he'd do favors for?
     
BadKosh
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Dec 23, 2015, 07:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Of course, being an asshole doesn't make you a bad President if you're the sort of asshole who sometimes treats others like shit in order to get things done (like Steve Jobs), but when your plan is to be an asshole to vast swathes of the populace you are supposed to serve, you have no business being in office.
That is what we've been saying about Obama since he took office. He was being a racist asshole within a few weeks, having to walk-back stupid assumptions he stated as fact before actually knowing the situation.
     
 
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