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daimoni · 01:51 PM

.

wulf · Jul 17, 2002, 02:35 PM

...plus the $20 / �19 for MPEG2 playback that was "promised" in QT6

(actually, could be wrong, but wasn't MPEG2 once "promised" for QT5??)

willed · Jul 17, 2002, 02:42 PM

Well, screw you too, Apple.

ringo · Jul 17, 2002, 02:43 PM

Yeah, as in "Your Wallet" and "With a hickory switch"

vsurfer · Jul 17, 2002, 02:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by daimoni:
 <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Yes, indeedy!

I just got back from MWNY -- and digested it as a reminder that Apple is a business, and maybe, with .mac, even taking a page out of mycrysyft's ibook. On a visceral level, well the itune "End of the Innocence" comes to mind.

Didn't see any of the CPU mhz speedbumps in iBook / Ti Book hardware hoped for. Currently, only the top-of-the line Macs support Quartz extreme. Methinks that until Quartz Xtreme is prevalent in middl-of the road macs we shouldn't be asked to shell out another $130 for 10.2 to upgrade from an OS that is still arguably slow on G3's and a number of G4's.

I didn't notice Adobe, Quark, or Macromedia. Interestingly Sybase making a push into the MacOSX enterprise/database side of things.

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 02:59 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Currently, only the top-of-the line Macs support Quartz extreme. Methinks that until Quartz Xtreme is prevalent in middl-of the road macs we shouldn't be asked to shell out another $130 for 10.2 to upgrade from an OS that is still arguably slow on G3's and a number of G4's. <hr /></blockquote>Not true, the low-end Macs feature Geforce2 Mx graphics, which does support Quartz Extreme.

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 03:02 PM

I can see how Apple might need to charge for MPEG2 capability (they are already paying $2 million to license MPEG4), since they really have to keep their costs in line...but I personally just don't see any excuse for MPEG2 capability not being included in the $30 pay edition of QT6.

SeSawaya · Jul 17, 2002, 03:04 PM

I guess its time to go back to crappy hotmail. $100 a year!!! $50 if you do it soon. WTF! 100 megs for 100 bucks. What a deal

M�lum · Jul 17, 2002, 03:06 PM

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO KNOW HOW MANY OF THE WHINERS ACTUALLY PAY THEIR SOFTWARE?

M�lum · Jul 17, 2002, 03:10 PM

?? bizar double post

[ 07-17-2002, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: M�lum ]

Leia Shoots Like a Girl · Jul 17, 2002, 03:14 PM

All I know is that for $80 a year I get my own domain name hosting 1 pop mail and unlimited alias adress' with 100 megs storage.

<a href="http://www.pair.com" target="_blank">www.pair.com</a>

Captain Obvious · Jul 17, 2002, 03:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by M�lum:
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO KNOW HOW MANY OF THE WHINERS ACTUALLY PAY THEIR SOFTWARE?<hr /></blockquote>Because days like today help create incentive to help the company out? Pfff, good luck getting anyone with broadband and HL or Carracho to pay for Jag.

Jutaro · Jul 17, 2002, 03:27 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by M�lum:
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO KNOW HOW MANY OF THE WHINERS ACTUALLY PAY THEIR SOFTWARE?<hr /></blockquote>I would imagine that is on reason they are upset, because they won't be able to pirate this type of service.

RGB · Jul 17, 2002, 03:58 PM

I purchased the Public Beta. I had OS X 10.0 delivered to my doorstop the morning of its release. I picked up my 10.1 update CD from the local Apple store. I paid $50 to have my computer fixed by that same Apple store when the 10.1 upgrade wouldn't install, leaving my computer useless. Having to pay $129 all over again? No way. I haven't been on Hotline in over a year, I might have to find my way back again...

RGB · Jul 17, 2002, 04:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RGB:
I purchased the Public Beta. I had OS X 10.0 delivered to my doorstop the morning of its release. I picked up my 10.1 update CD from the local Apple store. I paid $50 to have my computer fixed by that same Apple store when the 10.1 upgrade wouldn't install, leaving my computer useless. Having to pay $129 all over again? No way. I haven't been on Hotline in over a year, I might have to find my way back again...<hr /></blockquote>Hmm...just remembered that I get the educational discount because my mom is a teacher, $69 for the 10.2 box. That's what it was for 10.0 as well with the educational discount. Not good, but certainly not as bad as $129. There doesn't seem to be an educational discount for .mac services, apparently.

itai195 · Jul 17, 2002, 04:15 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by M�lum:
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO KNOW HOW MANY OF THE WHINERS ACTUALLY PAY THEIR SOFTWARE?<hr /></blockquote>Because days like today help create incentive to help the company out? Pfff, good luck getting anyone with broadband and HL or Carracho to pay for Jag.<hr /></blockquote>And that's somehow an excuse to pirate software?

daimoni · 01:52 PM

.

mchladek · Jul 17, 2002, 04:28 PM

I have the perfect solution. Apple should just give every app and service away for free and cut the hardware prices in half. Then they can just toast the books so it looks like they're making a huge profit. Wouldn't that just make everyone happy

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 04:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by M�lum:
WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO KNOW HOW MANY OF THE WHINERS ACTUALLY PAY THEIR SOFTWARE?<hr /></blockquote>Hey, raggaz! Che cazzo voi. Who pissed on your sandwich? I'll whine as much as I want and if you don't like it, well sorry. I don't have much money and I definitely don't have an extra $100 here and an extra $100 there. I'll be saving almost $300 in buying a Thinkpad instead of an 667 G4. With that I can afford PS elements or JASC PaintShop Pro. I will in fact now be saving $400 because I won't be buying Apple .RipOff services.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 04:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mchladek:
I have the perfect solution. Apple should just give every app and service away for free and cut the hardware prices in half. Then they can just toast the books so it looks like they're making a huge profit. Wouldn't that just make everyone happy

<hr /></blockquote>One can also post childish crap on MacNN.

For all the Apple co�ksu�kers here. In case you didn't notice Apple made their financial calls yesterday. Apple is profitable, WITH FREE iTOOLS SERVICES. Do you understand that? Apple was not in the red due to iTools. Nobody is accusing Apple of anything because they want to make money. People are angry because the basic services, such as one pi-ssy little email account and a measly 20MB of storage were taken away after a long period of Apple trumpeting these "free" services. There is no longer even a basic service. Just all or nothing. I am going for nothing.

On top of this: To all those people who say one shouldn't complain whatever Apple does. It is people like you who are responsible for societies losing even their basic freedoms. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Developer · Jul 17, 2002, 04:39 PM

I wonder when Microsoft will start the "I Switched Back" campaign. Seems like Theolein would like to volunteer.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 04:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Developer:
I wonder when Microsoft will start the "I Switched Back" campaign. Seems like Theolein would like to volunteer.

<hr /></blockquote>Why not? If they paid me... I said I know Microsoft are a bunch of bastard pig fu�kers. I kind of held Apple in higher esteem. Stupid of me now in retrospect it seems. I won't make that mistake again. But I will laugh my arse off if Apple notches this whole thing another step up and suddenly decides to close source Darwin. All the Unix fans here will dissappear overnight. Same thing if Apple suddenly decides that the Developer Tools are worth $500 suddenly.

Because what happened today was not about an email account or $100 or some services. It was about respect for a company that up until then had been playing a bit nicer than the rest of them. That is gone now.

Jutaro · Jul 17, 2002, 04:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mchladek:
I have the perfect solution. Apple should just give every app and service away for free and cut the hardware prices in half. Then they can just toast the books so it looks like they're making a huge profit. Wouldn't that just make everyone happy

<hr /></blockquote>One can also post childish crap on MacNN.

For all the Apple co�ksu�kers here. In case you didn't notice Apple made their financial calls yesterday. Apple is profitable, WITH FREE iTOOLS SERVICES. Do you understand that? Apple was not in the red due to iTools. Nobody is accusing Apple of anything because they want to make money. People are angry because the basic services, such as one pi-ssy little email account and a measly 20MB of storage were taken away after a long period of Apple trumpeting these "free" services. There is no longer even a basic service. Just all or nothing. I am going for nothing.

On top of this: To all those people who say one shouldn't complain whatever Apple does. It is people like you who are responsible for societies losing even their basic freedoms. You should be ashamed of yourselves.<hr /></blockquote>I don't see why we need to resort to calling names here Theo.

Apple's financial call also reflected that they made half of what they did this quarter a year ago. I think it is a bit irresponsible to say that since they are still showing a profit, they should leave it as is. Would you say that IF (hypothetically) iTools were to erode profits away to almost nothing?

I think Apple is trying to reduce there own costs, just like most other companies are right now. In this economy, that is what I would expect.

scottiB · Jul 17, 2002, 04:50 PM

If someone were to "switch" today, i.e., buy a new Mac, 10.2 would be $20 via the "Up-to-date" coupon, QT6-Pro is not a requirement to most people (most only 'need' it for highest rez movie trailers). If one needs (or really wants) the QT-Pro features the $30 is worth it. .Mac's charge does apply if the user wants it.

The pre-OSX naming system seems to not apply anymore. A .1 upgrade in the *nix world (and I only have experience with Irix) is as extreme as a .5 (or perhaps a whole number) upgrade in the old Mac OS. Our office's SGIs run Irix 6.5.9, and we need to upgrade to 6.5.11. I doubt that we'll see OS X 11 for a good while: there's plenty of tenths to go.

I'm not thrilled about dropping $160 for 10.2 and QT-Pro (last year I purchased more space to my iDisk, so this cost doesn't apply to me), but the features are worth it in my use.

itai195 · Jul 17, 2002, 04:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
I will in fact now be saving $400 because I won't be buying Apple .RipOff services.<hr /></blockquote>See you in two years when you're paying MS $200 a year for the right to continue using software that you own. I'm sure it'll be really cool how the smart tags they insert throughout your spreadsheets will link to the various products they're currently trying to sell.

As far as Jaguar goes. I admit I am a little surprised that it's going to cost $130 but I don't find it completely unjustified. Microsoft has certainly sold operating systems that were less of an upgrade for a similar fee. Get over the fact that Jaguar is just a 'point' upgrade and actually look at all of the new features.

[ 07-17-2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: itai195 ]

scottiB · Jul 17, 2002, 04:53 PM

double post--ack!

[ 07-17-2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: scottiB ]

driven · Jul 17, 2002, 05:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mchladek:
I have the perfect solution. Apple should just give every app and service away for free and cut the hardware prices in half. Then they can just toast the books so it looks like they're making a huge profit. Wouldn't that just make everyone happy

<hr /></blockquote>One can also post childish crap on MacNN.

For all the Apple co�ksu�kers here. In case you didn't notice Apple made their financial calls yesterday. Apple is profitable, WITH FREE iTOOLS SERVICES. Do you understand that? Apple was not in the red due to iTools. Nobody is accusing Apple of anything because they want to make money. People are angry because the basic services, such as one pi-ssy little email account and a measly 20MB of storage were taken away after a long period of Apple trumpeting these "free" services. There is no longer even a basic service. Just all or nothing. I am going for nothing.

On top of this: To all those people who say one shouldn't complain whatever Apple does. It is people like you who are responsible for societies losing even their basic freedoms. You should be ashamed of yourselves.<hr /></blockquote>Wow ... Apple charges for a product, folks buy it and suddenly basic freedoms are in danger?

Cipher13 · Jul 17, 2002, 05:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Developer:
I wonder when Microsoft will start the "I Switched Back" campaign. Seems like Theolein would like to volunteer.

<hr /></blockquote>Why not? If they paid me... I said I know Microsoft are a bunch of bastard pig fu�kers. I kind of held Apple in higher esteem. Stupid of me now in retrospect it seems. I won't make that mistake again. But I will laugh my arse off if Apple notches this whole thing another step up and suddenly decides to close source Darwin. All the Unix fans here will dissappear overnight. Same thing if Apple suddenly decides that the Developer Tools are worth $500 suddenly.

Because what happened today was not about an email account or $100 or some services. It was about respect for a company that up until then had been playing a bit nicer than the rest of them. That is gone now.<hr /></blockquote>Ah, the wonderful sound of enlightenment...

This behaviour from Apple is exactly why I'm the grump old bastard towards them in most respects... I just got fed up long ago.

Steve Jobs can blow me if he thinks I'm paying for ANY of the **** he released... especially Jag-wire.

RGB · Jul 17, 2002, 05:25 PM

Though I still hold Apple in a far higher esteem than their competition in Redmond, I use Apple software and buy Apple hardware (after saving up for it) because they are better products to use, at least for me, not because I think they are the best company in America...

I am not happy about the .mac fees, and thus won't be paying them. It's as simple as that. Most freebees on the internet are gone, Apple isn't doing something ridiculous here.

But to switch to Windows over this? Never! I love using my Mac with Mac OS X, and won't give that up. I don't buy Microsoft products because both mice I've bought from them died within a matter of months. I hate the company, but if they made a product that would benifit me I would buy it (given reasonable price).

Ca$h68 · Jul 17, 2002, 05:28 PM

I'm still pissed that Quicktime can't play fullscreen without paying money for it. How gay.

- Ca$h

sek929 · Jul 17, 2002, 05:28 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Developer:
I wonder when Microsoft will start the "I Switched Back" campaign. Seems like Theolein would like to volunteer.

<hr /></blockquote>Why not? If they paid me... I said I know Microsoft are a bunch of bastard pig fu�kers. I kind of held Apple in higher esteem. Stupid of me now in retrospect it seems. I won't make that mistake again. But I will laugh my arse off if Apple notches this whole thing another step up and suddenly decides to close source Darwin. All the Unix fans here will dissappear overnight. Same thing if Apple suddenly decides that the Developer Tools are worth $500 suddenly.

Because what happened today was not about an email account or $100 or some services. It was about respect for a company that up until then had been playing a bit nicer than the rest of them. That is gone now.<hr /></blockquote>Ah, the wonderful sound of enlightenment...

This behaviour from Apple is exactly why I'm the grump old bastard towards them in most respects... I just got fed up long ago.

Steve Jobs can blow me if he thinks I'm paying for ANY of the **** he released... especially Jag-wire.<hr /></blockquote>Haha I am right with you Ciph, and you what server to come to after you've "aquire" Jag <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Lets see, charge me for services I've had free for over a year and were supposedly "free for life" and think I am going to pay for your patch to a slow ass OS that shouldn't have been charged for in the first place? Haha, **** you, I don't think so

sek929 · Jul 17, 2002, 05:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ca$h68:
I'm still pissed that Quicktime can't play fullscreen without paying money for it. How gay.

- Ca$h<hr /></blockquote>Thats what Serial Surfer is for <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ca$h68 · Jul 17, 2002, 05:31 PM

Yeah really. I'm going to pirate apple as much as possible. I'm not paying a cent for any of that stuff.

I will have 10.2 though.

- Ca$h

itai195 · Jul 17, 2002, 05:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sek929:
Lets see, charge me for services I've had free for over a year and were supposedly "free for life" and think I am going to pay for your patch to a slow ass OS that shouldn't have been charged for in the first place? Haha, **** you, I don't think so

<hr /></blockquote>Interesting, considering I doubt you paid for OS X in the first place. If I'm right and you didn't, then I'd imagine that you should feel obliged to pay for 10.2. If you did pay for OS X, why? Seeing as how you're so sure it shouldn't have been charged for, why did you pay for it?

Seriously, you're just trying to rationalize piracy. You sound as petty as a 5 year old. Apple doesn't owe you jack squat, and just because you don't like some of their business practices you don't have the right to pirate their software.

[ 07-17-2002, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: itai195 ]

dawho9 · Jul 17, 2002, 05:46 PM

E-mail only is free. Check Apple's help page for more information.

dw9

sek929 · Jul 17, 2002, 06:47 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by itai195:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sek929:
Lets see, charge me for services I've had free for over a year and were supposedly "free for life" and think I am going to pay for your patch to a slow ass OS that shouldn't have been charged for in the first place? Haha, **** you, I don't think so

<hr /></blockquote>Interesting, considering I doubt you paid for OS X in the first place. If I'm right and you didn't, then I'd imagine that you should feel obliged to pay for 10.2. If you did pay for OS X, why? Seeing as how you're so sure it shouldn't have been charged for, why did you pay for it?

Seriously, you're just trying to rationalize piracy. You sound as petty as a 5 year old. Apple doesn't owe you jack squat, and just because you don't like some of their business practices you don't have the right to pirate their software.<hr /></blockquote>Why did I pay for it? Lets see now, maybe because they effectively killed OS9, so instead of staying on a sinking ship I paid some money and got on a big slow ship.

Now the OS is finally going to do what it does in a manner that makes my G4 actually seems like a G4 I have to pay more money? Was me paying for OSX and also buying a 2000$ machine not enough? And now I have to pay to keep my measly iDisk I use to host images?

I am a consumer of Apple INC, and therefore I can complain as loud as I ****ing please, so shove it buddy. I would have gladly paid for Jaguar, but now I have to pay to keep what I have going? **** that, I'll steal Jaguar then. I am acollege student, I can barely afford my loan for the G4, I def can't afford to pay for for my previously "free for life" and a new OS upgrade. And since 10.1.5 still manages to piss me off every 10 seconds with its slowness, I def need the OS upgrade. Then again I also need my e-mail address and measly 20MB iDisk space, so I guess I have to pay for that.

itai195 · Jul 17, 2002, 06:58 PM

You could have used OS 9 until now. A lot of people have. Apple is not forcing you to buy their products. You don't like it? You can go buy something else, but pirating a product is always stealing no matter which way you try to rationalize it. Don't give me the poor college student crap. You already get to pay half of what everyone else has to pay for the OS.

Why do you need an additional email address? Doesn't your college give you one? Come to think of it, don't they give you disk space too? I'm a college student as well -- I know the ropes. There are plenty of other free email address services, go use one of those. By the same token, plenty of other supposedly free services have either folded or started charging in the last several years. Apple certainly is not the first company to pull the plug on free services.

I should add that I'm not criticizing your right to complain. You have absolutely no right to pirate software, however.

[ 07-17-2002, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: itai195 ]

Sword of Orion · Jul 17, 2002, 07:02 PM

Just thought I'd mention 2 things:

1) Windows XP upgrade, $100; Windows XP full version, $200.

2) I doubt that Jaguar will be $130 "on the street" - MacMall, MacWarehouse, etc., will probably sell it a lot cheaper.

(I am a little miffed about QT6Pro - used to be that your "key" was good for 2 versions, now we have to pay every version?)

sek929 · Jul 17, 2002, 07:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by itai195:
You could have used OS 9 until now. A lot of people have. Apple is not forcing you to buy their products. You don't like it? You can go buy something else, but pirating a product is always stealing no matter which way you try to rationalize it. Don't give me the poor college student crap. You already get to pay half of what everyone else has to pay for the OS.

Why do you need an additional email address? Doesn't your college give you one? Come to think of it, don't they give you disk space too? I'm a college student as well -- I know the ropes. There are plenty of other free email address services, go use one of those. By the same token, plenty of other supposedly free services have either folded or started charging in the last several years. Apple certainly is not the first company to pull the plug on free services.<hr /></blockquote>Spoken like a true schmuck.

I paid Apple thousands apon thousands of dollars, therefore, if they make a move that displeases me I can complain as loud and as much as I want. Comprend�? I was actually going to pre-order Jaguar till I talked to Norm online, he then informed me of this .Mac crap, then I became irate.

It doesn't matter what else there is, I paid good money for the priviledges I have now, I am not just gonna say aww shucks and go get some other shitty free services that suck balls.

"You mean my cars free service at 50K miles costs 2 grand now? Darn, guess its time to check that place where its free, only thing is the mechanics don't speak english and it takes them 2 months, oh well, wouldn't wanna complain ya know..."

itai195 · Jul 17, 2002, 07:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sek929:
[QUOTE]Spoken like a true schmuck.

I paid Apple thousands apon thousands of dollars, therefore, if they make a move that displeases me I can complain as loud and as much as I want. Comprend�? I was actually going to pre-order Jaguar till I talked to Norm online, he then informed me of this .Mac crap, then I became irate.

It doesn't matter what else there is, I paid good money for the priviledges I have now, I am not just gonna say aww shucks and go get some other shitty free services that suck balls.

"You mean my cars free service at 50K miles costs 2 grand now? Darn, guess its time to check that place where its free, only thing is the mechanics don't speak english and it takes them 2 months, oh well, wouldn't wanna complain ya know..."<hr /></blockquote>Hmm, perhaps you misread my message.... Which states that I am not saying you don't have a right to complain. I've never said that anywhere, don't know how you're getting that from my posts, but it does give me some insight into how you possible could have interpreted the iTools license agreement as saying that the service would always be free. So far all I've seen the whiners point out is some excerpt from an advertisement that hardly implies that the service would be free forever. Maybe next time you should read the agreement before you sign your name on the dotted line. Your investment in a Mac in no way entitled you to permanent free email. You'd just like to think so.

What truly disturbs me though is that you are somehow turning the .mac issue into a rationalization for pirating software.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 07:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jutaro:
I don't see why we need to resort to calling names here Theo.

Apple's financial call also reflected that they made half of what they did this quarter a year ago. I think it is a bit irresponsible to say that since they are still showing a profit, they should leave it as is. Would you say that IF (hypothetically) iTools were to erode profits away to almost nothing?

I think Apple is trying to reduce there own costs, just like most other companies are right now. In this economy, that is what I would expect.<hr /></blockquote>Apple would do well to reduce costs by ceasing to make expensive trade shows where products that have been already been shown at developers conferences months before are shown again. At WWDC 2002 in May they showed off Jaguar. There really wasn't much new here. Apple would also save money by not opening Apple retail stores in out of the way places like death valley or Timbuktu. That, however, was not the point. The point was that Apple's claim that they were forced into this .mac thing due to financial concerns is simply not true, as is SJ's little bit of marketing speak about the "150 new features in 10.2". Apple *is* profitable. Point. They could have eased this on to long time Mac users. The basic tenet that formerly free services are now gone completely, in contrast to what SJ said a few years ago in SF, is to me a lack of respect for the customer. I know it is not general corporate practice to respect anything (employees, shareholders,customers anyone), but in my naivite I felt that Apple had a modicum of respect left for their customer. It is that that makes me angry: my own own stupidity for thinking the company might actually respect the customer.

sek929 · Jul 17, 2002, 07:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by itai195:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sek929:
[QUOTE]Spoken like a true schmuck.

I paid Apple thousands apon thousands of dollars, therefore, if they make a move that displeases me I can complain as loud and as much as I want. Comprend�? I was actually going to pre-order Jaguar till I talked to Norm online, he then informed me of this .Mac crap, then I became irate.

It doesn't matter what else there is, I paid good money for the priviledges I have now, I am not just gonna say aww shucks and go get some other shitty free services that suck balls.

"You mean my cars free service at 50K miles costs 2 grand now? Darn, guess its time to check that place where its free, only thing is the mechanics don't speak english and it takes them 2 months, oh well, wouldn't wanna complain ya know..."<hr /></blockquote>Hmm, perhaps you misread my message.... Which states that I am not saying you don't have a right to complain. I've never said that anywhere, don't know how you're getting that from my posts, but it does give me some insight into how you possible could have interpreted the iTools license agreement as saying that the service would always be free. So far all I've seen the whiners point out is some excerpt from an advertisement that hardly implies that the service would be free forever. Maybe next time you should read the agreement before you sign your name on the dotted line. Your investment in a Mac in no way entitled you to permanent free email. You'd just like to think so.

What truly disturbs me though is that you are somehow turning the .mac issue into a rationalization for pirating software.<hr /></blockquote>And how do I seem to be "rationalizing" piracy? I know its stealing, I still do it, why? Because its free, end of story. Its a simple issue of economics. I want said program, I couldn't afford it anyways, so I pirate it. I could have afforded Jaguar, but not that and .Mac, so I'll steal the thing thats able to be stolen. I will still prob end up paying for .Mac, but it will kinda like paying to get your teeth drilled, you really would care not to pay for such a thing, but sometimes you just have to.

They advertised iTools services as free for life when they came out with them, user agreement or not, this is a totally shitty move, especially when they are trying to make PC users switch.

What incentive do us Mac users have to keep the Mac now? iApps? C'mon now we need more than that. This disrespect of current Mac users spending more money for more inferior hardware is already starting to show that Apple really isn't thinking.

What brought Apple through the drought? Die-hard users, who are they screwing over with this? Die-hard users.

This is an all around bad move for Apple, you can question my ethics till the cows come home, its a futile battle and shouldn't be held here. To off topic.

This will my last post in this thread in order to stop this back and forth crap.

Paying for .Mac is crap, 100% crap.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 07:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
Wow ... Apple charges for a product, folks buy it and suddenly basic freedoms are in danger?<hr /></blockquote>No, people who will ape anything their knight in shining armour says and try to stop others expressing their dissatisfaction are what puts basic freedoms in danger.

RollTheBones · Jul 17, 2002, 07:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sek929:
...."Now the OS is finally going to do what it does in a manner that makes my G4 actually seems like a G4 I have to pay more money?"...[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Well, that BS in my opinion.

I've used X since 10.1 on two different PB G4:s for everything but audio. For that I boot into 9 and it works like a charm. Everything at work I do in X, and I've made really, really good money while working productivly in OS X without a glitch til this day. If I can do it, so can you.

Btw what IS it you do for a living? Because if your opinion is that things should be free/almost free, you must be really a bargin to contract/employ?? No?

[Edited since your last post]

Naaa...forget about it. Since your last post, any possible future deals to hire you are off. Wouldn't be smart to hire a thief, would it?

[ 07-17-2002, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: RollTheBones ]

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 07:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by itai195:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
I will in fact now be saving $400 because I won't be buying Apple .RipOff services.<hr /></blockquote>See you in two years when you're paying MS $200 a year for the right to continue using software that you own. I'm sure it'll be really cool how the smart tags they insert throughout your spreadsheets will link to the various products they're currently trying to sell.

As far as Jaguar goes. I admit I am a little surprised that it's going to cost $130 but I don't find it completely unjustified. Microsoft has certainly sold operating systems that were less of an upgrade for a similar fee. Get over the fact that Jaguar is just a 'point' upgrade and actually look at all of the new features.<hr /></blockquote>This is a shining example of minimal knowledge of the world outside one's own toilet bowl:
1. I'll be getting the Thinkpad with Win2000. There is neither product activation nor subscription in Win2000.
2. I'll be using OpenOffice, which is a) free, and b) has no built in spyware.
3. I'll be running Linux mostly. I gladly pay RedHat or SuSE for the upgrades once a year or so. They usually provide around six CD's worth of compiled software, for around $50. If that's too much I can download what I need from the net.

But as I said, I would rather have a Powerbook. I just don't really trust Apple not to start mucking with other products that I appreciate such as the Developer Tools in the future when they feel confident enough to do so (enough developers). Why wouldn't they? It would provide a handy source of revenue and many people here will assert that "Apple needs the money" even though it is their money being taken.

Lerkfish · Jul 17, 2002, 09:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by driven:
Wow ... Apple charges for a product, folks buy it and suddenly basic freedoms are in danger?<hr /></blockquote>No, people who will ape anything their knight in shining armour says and try to stop others expressing their dissatisfaction are what puts basic freedoms in danger.<hr /></blockquote>um...no offense here, but what ARE you all hepped up about?
This seems to be an off day for you, full of irrational curses and whatnot...
at any rate, I know that I've not used idisk very much at all, and have only really used the email, but I have others, its no big deal to notify people I'm switching emails. No harm, no foul. I think the price tag is too high, but then again, this is a market economy and things will reach some sort of equillibrium.

Up until now, the free email and storage always had me scratching my head as to how they could afford it anyways, I never depended on it. TNSTAAFL (there's no such thing as a free lunch).

I really really cannot understand people trying to connect this to basic freedoms (?) I think people are gettting WAY overcranked on this, a non-issue. If it costs too much, people won't use it. No biggie.

vsurfer · Jul 17, 2002, 09:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Currently, only the top-of-the line Macs support Quartz extreme. Methinks that until Quartz Xtreme is prevalent in middl-of the road macs we shouldn't be asked to shell out another $130 for 10.2 to upgrade from an OS that is still arguably slow on G3's and a number of G4's. <hr /></blockquote>Not true, the low-end Macs feature Geforce2 Mx graphics, which does support Quartz Extreme.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry - we have a different opinion of what low-end means -my iMac DV, purchased only 2 years ago does not support Quartz Extreme.
I'm sure that includes plenty of other recent iBook purchasers.

"What�s an industrial-strength graphics controller like the ATI Mobility Radeon with 16MB of VRAM doing in a friendly consumer portable like the iBook? "

Don't we need 32 MB on chip VRAM for QrtzXtreme? You won't catch me buying an iBook until it's a machine equipped for the same Quartz Extreme future that's envisaged for OSX.

sek929 · Jul 18, 2002, 01:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by vsurfer:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Currently, only the top-of-the line Macs support Quartz extreme. Methinks that until Quartz Xtreme is prevalent in middl-of the road macs we shouldn't be asked to shell out another $130 for 10.2 to upgrade from an OS that is still arguably slow on G3's and a number of G4's. <hr /></blockquote>Not true, the low-end Macs feature Geforce2 Mx graphics, which does support Quartz Extreme.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry - we have a different opinion of what low-end means -my iMac DV, purchased only 2 years ago does not support Quartz Extreme.
I'm sure that includes plenty of other recent iBook purchasers.

"What�s an industrial-strength graphics controller like the ATI Mobility Radeon with 16MB of VRAM doing in a friendly consumer portable like the iBook? "

Don't we need 32 MB on chip VRAM for QrtzXtreme? You won't catch me buying an iBook until it's a machine equipped for the same Quartz Extreme future that's envisaged for OSX.<hr /></blockquote>The requirement is an Ati 128 card with 16 MB or more of VRAM, so not quite 32.

theolein · Jul 18, 2002, 03:10 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sek929:
The requirement is an Ati 128 card with 16 MB or more of VRAM, so not quite 32.<hr /></blockquote>According to Apple the requirement is for any ATi Radeon card with 16MB VRAM or any 16MB NVidia card from a GForce 2 MX upwards. As far as I know the Rage cards are not supported.

pathogen · Jul 18, 2002, 03:28 AM

I don't know what to do. I was hoping I could keep this computer current with Apple's latest stuff for a little while longer. But now I can't afford it.

I spent $130 on OS X last year, and I can't afford to do that again this year. I'll hate to give up iTools, but .Mac is too expensive for me for the time being. Also, Quicktime 6 Pro is a bit much for me right now, but I do want it, so I'll have to wait until I can squeeze it in my budget.

What am I saying?

No Jaguar for me. I'm locking in at 10.1.5 and 9.2 because I can't afford anymore OS costs this year. I'm glad Real One works with 10.1, because for the time being I've got everything I need (except speed). It was a good ride while it lasted.

I would have bought Jaguar if it was a $40-60 upgrade. I might have paid for .Mac if it was $49 annual and $29 to start.

Instead, I'll just wait until I can afford a new Powermac sometime next year, summer 2003.