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Quran Burning by Floridian Church (Page 6)
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Snow-i
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I can't work out if you're defending clinic bombings in your rush to have a go at the religion that conservatives are being programed to hate.
I can't work out why you brought that up in the first place, as if there is some underlying relevance other than a demonstration of your extreme intolerance for western religion.
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I can't work out why you brought that up in the first place, as if there is some underlying relevance other than a demonstration of your extreme intolerance for western religion.
I know, Christians don't like to be reminded that their religion also has extremists that can generate bad impressions that will reflect on everyone else. Yes, they're not as extreme as Islam's extremists, but that doesn't mean they're not there.
     
dcmacdaddy
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Sep 11, 2010, 11:22 AM
 
ALL religions have extremist elements seeking to promote their particular faith over/onto all others.

ALL religious extremism is bad. ALL examples of religious extremism should be protested.
Protested by those within the same faith as the extremists and those outside the faith of the extremists.


At this point in history, the most vocal and visible religious extremists are fanatical Muslims in parts of the Middle East and Afghanistan. That fact in no way excuses the actions of extremists in other, non-Muslim, faiths. Anyone claiming that one form of religious extremism is more acceptable than another is a hypocrite and quite possible delusional because ALL religious extremism is bad. There is no such thing as good religious extremism.
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 12:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I know, Christians don't like to be reminded that their religion also has extremists that can generate bad impressions that will reflect on everyone else. Yes, they're not as extreme as Islam's extremists, but that doesn't mean they're not there.
The difference is that "Christian" extremists aren't "on book"... ...islamic extremists are.
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Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 01:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
The difference is that "Christian" extremists aren't "on book"... ...islamic extremists are.
Not true. The Christian "book" is full of plenty of examples for extremism. And, many moderate Muslims will tell you that Islamic extremists *aren't* "on book".
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Not true. The Christian "book" is full of plenty of examples for extremism.
Incorrect. The Christian book - the NT - has no extremism at all. Unless you're counting extreme niceness.

It's the Jewish part - the OT - which is full of bastards.
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Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 02:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Incorrect. The Christian book - the NT - has no extremism at all. Unless you're counting extreme niceness.

It's the Jewish part - the OT - which is full of bastards.
and, yet, most Christians recognize *both* books as the Word of God.
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 02:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
and, yet, most Christians recognize *both* books as the Word of God.
Which seems to be a purely Amerikkkan problem. Everyone else seems to be able to distinguish that Christianity is *only* the NT and that the OT is simply a back-story to set the scene.
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Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Which seems to be a purely Amerikkkan problem. Everyone else seems to be able to distinguish that Christianity is *only* the NT and that the OT is simply a back-story to set the scene.
So, is the OT fiction or did God experience a dramatic personality shift between OT and NT?
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
So, is the OT fiction or did God experience a dramatic personality shift between OT and NT?
Neither.

Interesting how Moses carried a was which bore a resemblance to the was carried by Setan, no?
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Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 04:16 PM
 
all you're doing is helping to prove that there are multiple ways to interpret the teachings of Christianity, some of which can lead to extremists (such as this cult leader from Florida), just as there are multiple ways to interpret Islam, some of which can lead to extremists.
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 04:17 PM
 
Outside yer embassy in London today:




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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 04:42 PM
 
Let's haul out the dumbass protestor pics doing dumb things with dumb things on their signs full of misspellings (e.g. "Hilary Clinton")...

What does this prove, other than there are dumbass protestors that exist?
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 04:45 PM
 
It's somewhat sad: all it takes is one idiot Christian to bring out millions of idiot Muslims.

-t
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 04:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What does this prove, other than there are dumbass protestors that exist?
Does every post have to prove something?
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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 04:56 PM
 
Fine then, what are you inferring, if any?
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 05:29 PM
 
Does every post have to infer something?
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Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
all you're doing is helping to prove that there are multiple ways to interpret the teachings of Christianity, some of which can lead to extremists (such as this cult leader from Florida), just as there are multiple ways to interpret Islam, some most of which can lead to extremists.
Fixed.
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Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Fixed.
if it was "most", we'd all be dead.
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 06:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Let's haul out the dumbass protestor pics doing dumb things with dumb things on their signs full of misspellings (e.g. "Hilary Clinton")...
I only have one thing to say to that....

( Last edited by Dork.; Sep 11, 2010 at 06:58 PM. )
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
if it was "most", we'd all be dead.
There's time yet.
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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 07:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Fixed.

Are you hoping that this thread ends up as well as your thread with Big Mac did?
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Are you hoping that this thread ends up as well as your thread with Big Mac did?
Is that a provocation?
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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 07:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Is that a provocation?

Not from me, although your postings in here on Muslims seem like a general provocation to all willing recipients - pretty offensive. It's like you are looking for another thread brawl in a similar vain calling most Muslims extremists, unless that was one of those comments where you weren't supposed to be inferring something?
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 07:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Not from me, although your postings in here on Muslims seem like a general provocation to all willing recipients - pretty offensive. It's like you are looking for another thread brawl in a similar vain calling most Muslims extremists, unless that was one of those comments where you weren't supposed to be inferring something?
Right, so you're using the standard leftist tactic of attempting to subdue the conversation by accusing those whose opinion differs of being offensive.

Good show.
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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 08:08 PM
 
I would respect your difference of opinion if it were reasonable, but it isn't as others have pointed out to you, so I think it is fair to label your "opinions" on most Muslims being extremists as offensive, just as your attempt to pigeonhole me as a standard lefty was also an attempt to provoke.

Why are you looking for a fight? Shouldn't you be out there chasing boobies?
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 08:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I would respect your difference of opinion if it were reasonable, but it isn't as others have pointed out to you
That sounds very much like "I don't respect your opinion because it's different to mine". Obviously, for you to class an opinion as reasonable it must coincide with your own because you've told yourself that you're the very definition of reason. It never occurs to you that you're simply wrong*.

Again, standard lefty tactics.

(*Yes, I know your next tactic is to try to apply that to me. But you know what I do when this occurs to me? I go and research. I go and read the koran. I observe the World. I gather more information before making an informed decision.)

It's pointless. You won't learn until the black flag is flying over your county hall. So I'll get back to my holiday. Good luck!
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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 08:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
That sounds very much like "I don't respect your opinion because it's different to mine". Obviously, for you to class an opinion as reasonable it must coincide with your own because you've told yourself that you're the very definition of reason. It never occurs to you that you're simply wrong*.

Again, standard lefty tactics.

(*Yes, I know your next tactic is to try to apply that to me. But you know what I do when this occurs to me? I go and research. I go and read the koran. I observe the World. I gather more information before making an informed decision.)

It's pointless. You won't learn until the black flag is flying over your county hall. So I'll get back to my holiday. Good luck!


Dude, use your head...

There are nearly 2 billion Muslims worldwide. "Most" means more than half, which means that you are saying that around 1 billion of them are extremists who, as extremists do, wish great violence upon those who do things such as burn Qurans. 1 billion. That is more than twice of the population of the United States. If there were this many extremists of any sort in this world, we'd be long dead.

You are smarter than this.
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 08:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Dude, use your head...

There are nearly 2 billion Muslims worldwide. "Most" means more than half, which means that you are saying that around 1 billion of them are extremists who, as extremists do, wish great violence upon those who do things such as burn Qurans. 1 billion. That is more than twice of the population of the United States. If there were this many extremists of any sort in this world, we'd be long dead.

You are smarter than this.
It's a duty of every muslim to bring the whole world to submission. You cannot be a muslim without accepting this duty. Period.

There are no radical muslims. There are muslims with patience and there are muslims without patience. That's it. The ones without patience are bombing you and burning your flag. The ones with patience are using your own systems against you to democratically bring about their desires. And when those desires materialise, they're going to make your mad hardcore conservative Christian fundies look like liberals.

One day, you will have to stand and fight or bow and submit. No amount of reason will stop this.

Barry said today that the US is not at war with islam. This may be so, but islam is most certainly at war with the US.

We in the UK are a few years ahead of you in this. The trouble is ramping up, right now, right before our eyes. In my nearest city, there's now no-go areas for non-muslims. Muslim gangs are taking local girls off the street and gang raping them to show the locals "who's boss". One of the places where they take them to do this (a "country park") is a mile away from one of my rental houses. This is not isolated - it's happening everywhere here in England. It's real, it's coming. You're next.

Wake the f up!
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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:07 PM
 
Meh. You sound like Glenn Beck.

Whether the billions of Muslims that are not trying to "bring the whole world to submission" lack patience or not, at the end of the day they are not acting on their alleged extremist viewpoints, life goes on...
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Meh. You sound like Glenn Beck.
That's because Glenn Beck is right.

I've just told you about what's happening on the ground in my city and you say "meh". Do gang rapes often get a "meh" from you Canuckistanis?

Don't worry. Your being able to experience this phenomena for yourself ain't far away. Don't say I didn't warn you.

5 Canadian Muslims charged in Toronto gang-rape

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Whether the billions of Muslims that are not trying to "bring the whole world to submission"
You're not listening. There are no muslims who don't desire worldwide submission. None. Period.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
lack patience or not, at the end of the day they are not acting on their alleged extremist viewpoints, life goes on...
Head in the sand. Life will not go on. Not as you know it anyway.
They wait. Once their numbers are high enough they pounce, and by that time it's too late - you're f'ed. This has been their M.O. with every country they've taken throughout history. Don't believe me on that - go look it up for yourself, see it with your own eyes.
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besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
That's because Glenn Beck is right.

I've just told you about what's happening on the ground in my city and you say "meh". Do gang rapes often get a "meh" from you Canuckistanis?
That's not what I was mehing over, although I think you know that.

Don't worry. Your being able to experience this phenomena for yourself ain't far away. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Yes Glenn Beck. Any other crazy conspiracy theories I ought to be scared of right now?

You're not listening. There are no muslims who don't desire worldwide submission. None. Period.
Why do you make generalizations/arguments that you cannot defend? This is debate 101, how to not debate fail.

Are there any Jewish people that don't want zionism? Any tea party people that wouldn't like to see Obama assassinated? Just wondering if you'd like to further educate us on how *all* people of certain categories are, all thousands/millions/billions of them?

Head in the sand. Life will not go on. Not as you know it anyway.
They wait. Once their numbers are high enough they pounce, and by that time it's too late - you're f'ed. This has been their M.O. with every country they've taken throughout history. Don't believe me on that - go look it up for yourself, see it with your own eyes.
I'm not too worried. By then we'll be overrun by aliens anyway...
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:26 PM
 
when I was a kid, my Sunday school teacher told me that I needed to convert at least 10 people to christianity in order to be able to get into heaven.
     
besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
when I was a kid, my Sunday school teacher told me that I needed to convert at least 10 people to christianity in order to be able to get into heaven.

How many do you have so far?

This would make for a great contest!
     
Wiskedjak
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
How many do you have so far?

This would make for a great contest!
counting myself, so far I'm at -2.
     
besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:49 PM
 
Well, I've converted several people to besson3cism.... Dork, for example.
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Any other crazy conspiracy theories I ought to be scared of right now?
Conspiracy theory? These are real, recorded crimes. Real, recorded history displays this behaviour for 1,000+ years.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Why do you make generalizations/arguments that you cannot defend? This is debate 101, debate fail.
I've defended my generalisation - I told you to go and read the koran. Go look at it for yourself.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Are there any Jewish people that don't want zionism?
Yes, plenty of non-religious Jews.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Any tea party people that wouldn't like to see Obama assassinated?
Ummm. 99.999% of them?
You're really reaching now, aren't you?

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Just wondering if you'd like to further educate us on how *all* people of certain categories are, all thousands/millions/billions of them?
Yes. All jazz guitarists know how to play a open Am on their instrument. All pianists know where middle C is on a piano. All Catholics believe in Jesus. All muslims read the koran. All baptised Sikh males must wear panj kakaar. Everyone who watches two seasons of Star Trek likes Star Trek. All redheads have red hair.

See how easy it is to make generalisations when you observe the world around you? I know it's not much of an intellectual challenge to look at a duck and come to the conclusion that it's a duck, but hey, that's how the world works.
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Sep 11, 2010, 09:58 PM
 
Yes, it's very easy to make a generalization, and that's part of the problem... Any fool can generalize, but unfortunately points aren't awarded for simply having generalized and having an opinion, points are rewarded when you can defend your theories, and there is no way you can defend the notion that 1 billion Muslims want worldwide submission and the only reason they don't act upon this is a sense of patience.

Hint: don't make ridiculous generalizations, and make your arguments thoughtfully and accurately.
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Yes, it's very easy to make a generalization, and that's part of the problem... Any fool can generalize, but unfortunately points aren't awarded for simply having generalized and having an opinion, points are rewarded when you can defend your theories, and there is no way you can defend the notion that 1 billion Muslims want worldwide submission and the only reason they don't act upon this is a sense of patience.
I don't need to defend the generalisation. It's a duty imposed on every muslim by the koran. If you subscribe to the koran (thus, are muslim), you can't avoid your duty. If you don't subscribe, you're not muslim.

You know how some Christians believe that Genesis is literal and others believe that it's an allegory? There's none of that allowed with the koran. It's all literal. You either believe that it's the infallible word of allah - to be followed to the letter - or you're an infidel. There's no guessing, there's no room for interpretation - it's absolute.
This is precisely why they get so pissy when you burn it.
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I don't need to defend the generalisation. It's a duty imposed on every muslim by the koran. If you subscribe to the koran (thus, are muslim), you can't avoid your duty. If you don't subscribe, you're not muslim.

You know how some Christians believe that Genesis is literal and others believe that it's an allegory? There's none of that allowed with the koran. It's all literal. You either believe that it's the infallible word of allah - to be followed to the letter - or you're an infidel. There's no guessing, there's no room for interpretation - it's absolute.
This is precisely why they get so pissy when you burn it.
More generalizations. You haven't proven anything, other than the fact that you know how to take some media news and extrapolate it out to fit your hysteria. Someday you'll learn not everything is black and white. Nah, who am I kidding?
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:22 PM
 
It's a bit of a stretch to say that because there is a supposed duty in the Quran that 1 billion Muslims want worldwide submission and the only reason they don't act upon this is a sense of patience. A subset of Muslims take this duty seriously, just like a subset of Christians take everything printed in the bible literally and live their life in precise accordance with this interpretation (e.g. not having premarital sex).

You need to stop going on about all/most ___ this and all/most ____ that, and we'll be cool, unless you've personally interviewed a billion Muslims about this.
     
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Someday you'll learn not everything is black and white.
Everything is black and white. There's the truth of the matter (any matter) and there's the "not the truth of the matter".

Am I sitting in a seat right now? Yes.
Am I wearing a pink shirt right now? No.
Do you have a beard? Yes.
Do you ride motorcycles? Yes.

Black and white. Everything is black and white. If you don't think it is, then you simply haven't examined the matter closely enough to determine the truth.

Now, we ask questions about the unknown...
Is there a bloke living in Iowa named "Derek Umgamlinus"?
We don't know.
But we can persistently enquire into this question and eventually we'll reach an answer: Yes or no.

It's simple science, deduction.

We can ask "does God exist?". ...and the answer will be yes or no, whether or not we think we know the answer. Reality doesn't do agnosticism.

After careful inquiry into a subject, any subject, at some point we will be able to deduce that a duck is, in fact, probably a duck. After more inquiry, we will find ourselves at a point where we can be certain that it's a duck. The answer to any properly formulated question will always be "yes" or "no".
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
It's a bit of a stretch to say that because there is a supposed duty in the Quran
There's no "supposed" anything in the koran. It's all absolute.
The only difference between muslim sects is down to an argument over who's the successor to old mo and arguments over what's not in the koran.

There's no wiggle room - all muslims are literalists. This is what you're not getting - their whole religion is fundamentalist.
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:51 PM
 
That you truly and sincerely believe that everything is black and white is quite telling...

Do your answers ever come in the form of "it depends"?
     
besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 10:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
There's no "supposed" anything in the koran. It's all absolute.
The only difference between muslim sects is down to an argument over who's the successor to old mo and arguments over what's not in the koran.

There's no wiggle room - all muslims are literalists. This is what you're not getting - their whole religion is fundamentalist.

Except the millions (or whatever number) that are not devout, for starters.
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 11:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Do your answers ever come in the form of "it depends"?
No, because I always formulate the question properly.

If the answer is "it depends", the next question is "it depends on what?". Which will give a variable. If you include that variable into the question in the first place, the answer "it depends" is eradicated and becomes "yes" or "no".
Of course, if there's more than one variable then the answer may come back as "it depends" until that variable is also included in the question. At some point, all possible variables can be included in the question so that the answer will come back black or white.

If it doesn't, then you simply haven't formulated the question properly. I think they call it "intellectual laziness" or something like that.

Let's observe a recent conversation:

- "Does pickup A sound brighter than pickup B?"
- "It depends"
- "Does pickup A sound brighter than pickup B when installed into this white 1986 Gibson Les Paul Standard strung at concert pitch with new Ernie Ball Super Slinky strings through a 30' Klotz laGrange cable into a 2008 JCM800 reissue with blah blah blah and the settings on yadda yadda yadda with 231 volts powering the mains etc. etc. etc." (you get the idea).
- "No"

This is all basic scientific method. I thought you people were big on science?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 11:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Except the millions (or whatever number) that are not devout, for starters.
You're confusing it with Christianity again.
I've never met a non-devout muslim. Have you?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 11:21 PM
 
Well then, when people argue that not everything is black and white, this is simply a shortcut way of saying that not every question can be answered without a "it depends". People usually aren't as precise in their questions as your last example, but there are people who genuinely think that every problem has a simple solution. I'm glad you're not one of them, although if I hadn't asked this question I may have thought you were.

With regards to the Muslim thing, there are many, many variables you need to account for when saying that all/most Muslims are just waiting around for the worldwide submission in which they desire:

- Is the Muslim devout/practicing?
- Has the Muslim been Westernized?
- Does the Muslim's importance assigned to living in peace with all neighbors outweigh their alleged desire for worldwide submission?
- etc.

What you probably meant to say (but didn't) was that the devout, committed, strict, fanatic Muslims want worldwide submission, which is a much, much, much different argument than simply "most Muslims want worldwide submission" without accounting for these variables.

Your theory was intellectually lazy.
     
Doofy
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Sep 11, 2010, 11:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What you probably meant to say (but didn't) was that the devout, committed, strict, fanatic Muslims want worldwide submission, which is a much, much, much different argument than simply "most Muslims want worldwide submission" without accounting for these variables.

Your theory was intellectually lazy.
Of course, the other variable one must include in any question is "are there variables for this question, if so what are they, and are they valid?".
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
besson3c
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Sep 11, 2010, 11:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
You're confusing it with Christianity again.
I've never met a non-devout muslim. Have you?

Of course, there are tons of them! Do you really live that sheltered a life?

Your whole position reminds me of this mockery of your position from 4:45 on, put together by a Muslim American: Daily Show's Aasif Mandvi: Peaceful Muslims In TN Ruining It For The Rest Of Us (VIDEO) | TPMMuckraker

What about all of the Muslim Americans that served and died in the US miliary? Is them risking their lives for US interests somehow a part of their quest for worldwide submission?

Dude, give it up... Your arguments are about as solid as BadKosh's, and your persistence approaching stupendousman territory.
     
 
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