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philm · Nov 7, 2008, 11:41 AM

The BBC is running this story that the above photo of Kim Jong-il is fake, due to the shadows and some misaligned pixels (see the article for fuller details). I'm not so sure. The shadow difference could just be because he was a bit nearer to the step and the pixels don't look too bad.

Any anyway, surely if they were going to go to the trouble of faking a pic, they'd find one of him in a better coat.

Thoughts?

Wiskedjak · Nov 7, 2008, 11:47 AM

If it's 'shopped, North Korea is employing better Photoshoppers than some major Western news agencies.

Eug · Nov 7, 2008, 12:38 PM

I'm no P'shop guy, but...

Their analysis doesn't really make complete sense. Yeah, that black line is missing. However, one of the so-called problematic shadows is in an area where the black line is missing. That might suggest the shadow was intentionally added askew over top of where the black line should be. Why would they do that?

Furthermore, if you look at the guy at the far right, his pants don't cast a shadow that is as far askew as the guys with the crumpled pants. This may suggest that the crumpled pants simply stick out further forwards at the knees.

As for the misaligned pixels, I'll let someone else comment.

Let's just say I'm suspicious of the BBC's suspicion. I agree, if it is indeed 'shopped, then North Korea is employing better Photoshoppers than some major Western news agencies.

Railroader · Nov 7, 2008, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by philm

The shadow difference could just be because he was a bit nearer to the step and the pixels don't look too bad.

But he is actually "standing" further forward than the guard on his right, you can see his shadow on that guard.

Doofy · Nov 7, 2008, 01:16 PM

If it was chopped they'd have made him taller.

SirCastor · Nov 7, 2008, 01:17 PM

I agree. Looking at the shadow on the Guard, I think the picture is genuine. It's possible they Photoshopped the legs for some other reason, but I don't think Jong-Il has been superimposed completely.

Dakar V · Nov 7, 2008, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

But he is actually "standing" further forward than the guard on his right, you can see his shadow on that guard.

And a lack of shadow between his legs.

Jawbone54 · Nov 7, 2008, 01:18 PM

Which Eastern agency was it that ran the cloned missiles pic?

Jawbone54 · Nov 7, 2008, 01:19 PM

Also, I can't analyze the picture (instincts say not faked) because I keep seeing this:

Teronzhul · Nov 7, 2008, 01:55 PM

I don't think its shopped, but not just for the technical reasons. I don't see any reason for him to be shopped in with some army officials. I'm sure they have publicity shots like that lying around anyway, probably numerous real pictures that were dropped for one reason or another. If they had cloned the troops times 1000 or something to make the Korean army look substantial I could understand, but to toss Il into a completely average situation to prove he is ok seems odd when they could have just rifled through his photo album instead seems like unnecessary work.

Railroader · Nov 7, 2008, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

I don't think its shopped, but not just for the technical reasons. I don't see any reason for him to be shopped in with some army officials.

Because he's probably really pushing up daisies.

philm · 03:53 PM

Sometimes you need to stand back a bit to see the real truth.

Chuckit · Nov 7, 2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by philm

Sometimes you need to stand back a bit to see the real truth.

The original surfaces!

PER3 · Nov 7, 2008, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

If they had cloned the troops times 1000 or something to make the Korean army look substantial I could understand, but to toss Il into a completely average situation to prove he is ok seems odd when they could have just rifled through his photo album instead seems like unnecessary work.

His surname is Kim. Jong-Il is his first name.

Person Man · Nov 8, 2008, 01:21 AM

</obvious>

BLAZE_MkIV · Nov 8, 2008, 09:31 AM

He's probably standing quite a bit in-front of the solders, so the forced perspective makes him look taller. The solder to the right isn't casting a shadow on him.

Oisín · Nov 8, 2008, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

And a lack of shadow between his legs.

That’s because he’s Asian and everyone knows Asians all have teeny weenies.

vmarks · Nov 8, 2008, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

but to toss Il into a completely average situation to prove he is ok seems odd

Il is not his last name.

Kim is his last name, Jong-il is his first name.
His son is Kim Pyong-il.

EDIT: PER3 got there first. oh well.

philm · Nov 8, 2008, 12:48 PM

In any case, maybe Teronzhul is good mates with Kim Jong-il and was deliberately calling him what all his friends know him as - 'il'.

Oisín · Nov 8, 2008, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by philm

In any case, maybe Teronzhul is good mates with Kim Jong-il and was deliberately calling him what all his friends know him as - 'il'.

That wouldn’t be what his friends know him as.

Chuckit · Nov 8, 2008, 05:44 PM

Even his friends don't know he's ill?

Railroader · Nov 8, 2008, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Even his friends don't know he's dead?

Fixed™

Chuckit · Nov 8, 2008, 06:19 PM

It was a pun on "his friends call him 'il'".

Face Ache · Nov 8, 2008, 06:41 PM

a) Super Nerd is wearing very shiny shoes, explaining the "mismatched" pixels.

b) The disappearing horizontal line, if it was a photochop, would be an obvious omission by someone skilled enough to find/create such perfectly shadow-matched images (the shadows falling across all their bodies are at the exact same angle).

c) The leg shadows match those of the guy on the far right.

d) North Korea can't afford a copy of Photoshop.

jokell82 · Nov 8, 2008, 07:27 PM

It's a shop - I can tell by some of the pixels and having seen quite a few shops in my time.

Face Ache · Nov 8, 2008, 08:45 PM

Clearly lens flare from the super shiny shoes.

chris v · Nov 8, 2008, 10:06 PM

Needs Moar.

Veltliner · Nov 8, 2008, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

If it's 'shopped, North Korea is employing better Photoshoppers than some major Western news agencies.

That would be the secret service in this case.

Veltliner · Nov 8, 2008, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

If it was chopped they'd have made him taller.

You're right.

God, this is a relief!

I was so worried about Kim Jong Il.

Mass murderers get so rare these days, they've got to be protected.

besson3c · Nov 8, 2008, 11:30 PM

Is this pic fake?

- - e r i k - - · Nov 9, 2008, 08:30 PM

Wow. Talk about storm in a teacup. BBC is into conspiracies now? Eug's analysis is spot on, there's nothing wrong with that image.

Chuckit · Nov 9, 2008, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Wow. Talk about storm in a teacup. BBC is into conspiracies now? Eug's analysis is spot on, there's nothing wrong with that image.

I disagree. There is definitely something wrong with that image, but it's hard to figure out what. It strains credulity to suggest there's a groove in the wall that just happens to end right behind the two guys flanking Kim. Also, Kim's shadow is definitely odd. Yes, the guy on the right has a shadow that looks more like his — because they are both wearing straight pants while all the others are wrinkled — but the two shadows still seem to be cast at different times of day. And the blurring on the foot looks very much like poor Photoshop work. It shouldn't be a reflection on his shoe, because his shoes don't appear to be that wide. The only thing arguing against the "It's a bad shop" theory is that there's another shadow that would also have to be shopped that appears to be from the right time of day.

So both "It's a bad shop with the middle segment of the wall sloppily replaced" and "It's not shopped" seem to be wrong. But there's something off in that picture.

- - e r i k - - · Nov 9, 2008, 09:33 PM

Nup. His feet are simply more straight than the others, the reflection on his shoes are consistent, as is his shadow on the person behind him. Photoshopping the line from the shadow of the man to his right would be more work than effort to look right. And there is no reason why this stair ornament isn't meant to be like that.

nonhuman · Nov 10, 2008, 01:09 AM

Another reasonable explanation for the difference in the shadows cast by the legs:

Kim Jong-Il is standing with straight legs while all the soldiers are bending their legs slightly to avoid showing how much shorter than them he really is.

brassplayersrock² · Nov 11, 2008, 03:30 AM

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Nov 11, 2008, 07:23 AM

Holy f'in conspiracy theories, Batman.

Peter · Nov 11, 2008, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²

what am I missing?

Oisín · Nov 11, 2008, 09:24 AM

^ Kim Jong-Il clapping in the front row of the audience?

^^ Now I’m confused.

Railroader · Nov 11, 2008, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Holy f'in conspiracy theories, Batman.

Proof that neither one is photoshopped. They just keep moving the same wax statue around.

- - e r i k - - · Nov 12, 2008, 01:31 AM

Oisín · Nov 12, 2008, 08:57 AM

Here come the Men in Khaki-and-cream …

Eriamjh · Nov 16, 2008, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Another reasonable explanation for the difference in the shadows cast by the legs:

Kim Jong-Il is standing with straight legs while all the soldiers are bending their legs slightly to avoid showing how much shorter than them he really is.

I don't see them doing that at all.

macdef · Nov 20, 2008, 04:20 AM

I believe it was not photoshopped. Not fake it is true.

Electronic Gadgets Guy · Nov 20, 2008, 05:32 PM

Kim Jong-il? Who does he play for?