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knifecarrier2 · Oct 1, 2012, 10:02 AM

So... here's the preface:

I have over 60k in student loans. I have a great job, I make decent $ (median income). I freelance on the side when I find work. Yet my student loan payments are insane. Like, over $500 a month. I've consolidated my federal loans which helped IMMENSELY, yet I still have about $17k in private loans (which are not able to be consolidated, refinanced, whatever you are thinking it can't happen I promise). Now, when I took them out, I put them on a "graduated" repayment plan. I didn't read the 20 pages of fine print, but they explained to me that graduated = gradual increase, hence "graduated".

Silly me. My payments went from $80 a month to over $200 a month, in one month, and now they'll just stay at $200+ a month indefinitely, til the loans are paid. I called, I bitched, I complained, I begged, but no matter. "Graduated" = instant 210% increase.

So then I see the banks getting bailouts. And GM, which has produced shitty products for 30 years, getting bailouts. I see rich people evading taxes with S corporations, basically the entire republican party is full of crooks that somehow "made money" and are now legal. And I'm pissed off.

I do NOT support student loan forgiveness, btw. I want to pay back my loans, I really do. But I want to pay them back on my terms, and when I can afford it. So... I've been thinking about stuff, but I don't know where to find the answers to the questions I have.

Example: I'm looking at getting a 911, it's a good deal, and if I sell it in a year or two I'll double my initial investment. However, if I take out a car loan (currently at 3%) for MORE than I pay for the car, and instead throw that cash towards my student loans, I've effectively converted my student loans to a 3% rate, instead of 7%. So I'd take out ...say.. 10k more than the car, throw that at the loan, but tell the bank it's worth 16k. Is that legal?

Same goes for home loans. Property. Instead of buying a house for 100k, take out a loan for 150k, since the rates are at 2.9%. So bam, take out the loans, pay off my student loans, fix up the house on the cheap, and sell it for 120k. Now i'm only 30k in debt with a rate that's less than half.

Or S corporations. If I quit my job, go back to freelancing... maybe I should have a S corp instead of an LLC, and ... blah, I just have so many questions. I need a forum full of shady-assed accountants that work with shady republicans and know how to get away with what. Anybody know of one?

Cheers!

andi*pandi · Oct 1, 2012, 10:06 AM

I routinely pay bills with my home equity line just to get the 3%... and when we refinanced we did put extra on the end to pay off some other bills... but that was for an existing house mortgage.

It will be hard to fool a bank into thinking the car is worth more than it is, unless you also get the seller in on the deal.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 1, 2012, 01:23 PM

Is the 911 worth $16K after you finish working on it? If it is, it seems unlikely you'd get in much trouble. You could just claim the rest was for parts to restore it no?

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 1, 2012, 03:15 PM

All you need is a regular old financial advisor, just like you'd get at any decent bank.

knifecarrier2 · Oct 1, 2012, 03:17 PM

No way. I want someone like Saul, who knows the ins and outs and can teach me the art of ****ing over the country without doing anything illegal.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 2, 2012, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2

No way. I want someone like Saul, who knows the ins and outs and can teach me the art of ****ing over the country without doing anything illegal.

You might need to add 3 or 4 more zeros to your income before you get to join that club.

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 2, 2012, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2

No way. I want someone like Saul, who knows the ins and outs and can teach me the art of ****ing over the country without doing anything illegal.

1. Saul's clients are illegal.

2. You guys have banks that will let you take out a 3% car loan without any bank appraisal on the car? You can just say "oh yeah, it's a '77 Porsche worth 16 grand" and they take your word for it?

3. There's absolutely nothing illegal about using available low-interest credit to pay off higher-interest loans. In fact it's probably not even at the level of "moderately clever" - more like "no-brainer". There may be some tax implications however, if you're moving from a government student loan to a bank loan.

4. A good financial advisor will tell you all the above things. You don't need a "creative accountant" - you couldn't afford one anyway.

Phileas · Oct 2, 2012, 10:08 AM

If you've got a decent income and acceptable credit rating, just get a line of credit and pay off your student loans with that. No rules against that.

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 2, 2012, 10:42 AM

I should add that I also find paying $500 a month on $60k in loans to be actually pretty low, not "insane". That's just my initial thought. I mean, your loans are at 7%, so you're accruing $350 in monthly interest.

I want to pay back my loans, I really do. But I want to pay them back on my terms, and when I can afford it.

See, no offense, but that's just hilarious. If banks extended credit on those kind of terms, they'd be run into the ground pretty quickly.

Cold Warrior · Oct 2, 2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

See, no offense, but that's just hilarious. If banks extended credit on those kind of terms, they'd be run into the ground pretty quickly.

Oh wait...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932012_global_financial_crisis

Shaddim · Oct 2, 2012, 02:18 PM

There is no secret method. You do everything you can think of to make money, including sell off junk you don't need, and then go ape s**t and pay off all your debt.

Once your debt is gone, you invest, then invest some more, then you keep rolling that over until you're where you want to be. Then retire. There's sacrifice and work involved. 16 hour days, 6-7 days /wk, is normal. It's about focus and drive, there is no shortcut.

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 2, 2012, 02:19 PM

Touche.

Cold Warrior · Oct 2, 2012, 02:29 PM

knifecarrier2 · Oct 2, 2012, 03:49 PM

There's always a shortcut. And it's usually not legal. And once you take that shortcut, then you go legit. That's the republican way. I am pretty ****ing good at what I do, but the average pay hasn't changed since 2001. Like most jobs. Not sure how to make more, other than doing more freelance work, and that's hard to find. I am redoing my website though, and I'll revamp my entire portfolio in the next few months:

Still editing copy and changing some things.. but it'll help.

Shaddim · Oct 2, 2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2

There's always a shortcut. And it's usually not legal. And once you take that shortcut, then you go legit.

Sure, don't listen to me. I'm sure there are 1000s of people out there worth >$60M who are dying to give you free financial advice.

See, the shortcuts, they happen later. Like, around where I am. At that point you have to decide if you want to play at the next level and be a cut-throat bastard. I don't.

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 3, 2012, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2

There's always a shortcut.

Yeah, there is....it's called "work harder". Have time to rebuild an engine or paint your car on evenings and weekends? You're not working enough.

I am redoing my website though, and I'll revamp my entire portfolio in the next few months:

Still editing copy and changing some things.. but it'll help.

My input:

"industrial design and product development"....take out "making cool stuff"

Get rid of "no bullshit". It's unprofessional and, to me, if you have to put that statement up-front it only means that bullshit will be involved.

Get rid of "kickass".

It's conversational but sounds I'm-still-in-school-ish. Get rid of the early-20s nomenclature and it's great.

subego · Oct 3, 2012, 01:27 PM

I miss R50's revolving sig troll.

olePigeon · Oct 3, 2012, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2

haha. Your first car is no excuse for blatant ignorance. LOL. Common sense man.

What ignoramus doesn't read the fine print and drives up 60k in student debt?

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 3, 2012, 01:48 PM

60k in student debt isn't uncommon in Canada, depending on education level - I had more than that. I imagine it's relatively more common in the States.

sek929 · Oct 3, 2012, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

What ignoramus doesn't read the fine print and drives up 60k in student debt?

Umm, what?

I know people with a hell of a lot more student loan debt than that, wouldn't consider them an "ignoramus" either. If you want to go to a certain school for a certain program and mommy and daddy don't have any money to help racking up 60k is easy as hell.

Eug · Oct 3, 2012, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

Oh wait...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932012_global_financial_crisis

To be fair, he lives in Kanuckistan, and the banks didn't get involved with that there.

olePigeon · Oct 4, 2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by sek929

I know people with a hell of a lot more student loan debt than that, wouldn't consider them an "ignoramus" either. If you want to go to a certain school for a certain program and mommy and daddy don't have any money to help racking up 60k is easy as hell.

I haven't had help from mommy and daddy since I was 18. I managed to get through college with zero debt. It takes 6 years instead of 4 years, but I think it's a reasonable tradeoff. 2 years at a JC with part time job, work 1 year full time job, transfer to university, attend 1 year with part time job, work 1 year full time job, attend 2nd year with part time job, then graduate.

I don't understand the need/want to graduate in 4 years with tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with some of the worst loan terms ever produced. Also, why wouldn't you take lower division classes at a community college, then transfer? It'd save you $20,000-$40,000 a semester to not retake high school at the University. So you don't graduate in 4 years, why the rush?

I guess I'm missing something. I know college is expensive, but it doesn't have to be with some planning, even for a stupid schmuck like me.

BLAZE_MkIV · Oct 4, 2012, 11:39 AM

Also in the nature of constructive criticism

Get a domain name with email. Don't use gmail.
Don't use first person singular. It's a company/business not a person.
Take about the bit about learning how to do what they want done. If you don't know how they'll just find someone who already does. And drop the fix their car joke. It is a joke right?

Laminar · Oct 4, 2012, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I haven't had help from mommy and daddy since I was 18. I managed to get through college with zero debt. It takes 6 years instead of 4 years, but I think it's a reasonable tradeoff. 2 years at a JC with part time job, work 1 year full time job, transfer to university, attend 1 year with part time job, work 1 year full time job, attend 2nd year with part time job, then graduate.
I don't understand the need/want to graduate in 4 years with tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with some of the worst loan terms ever produced.

I'd wager that the 2 extra years of income at a degree-ed job more than make up for any student loan interest. At least in my case.

Also, why wouldn't you take lower division classes at a community college, then transfer? It'd save you $20,000-$40,000 a semester to not retake high school at the University.

For some programs, sure. But not all (or even most?). Is there a way to quantify the quality of an education? If a larger university can offer more qualified professors, more extensive technology, etc., would it not be an advantage to have access to that for four years instead of just two?

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 4, 2012, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Originally Posted by sek929

I know people with a hell of a lot more student loan debt than that, wouldn't consider them an "ignoramus" either. If you want to go to a certain school for a certain program and mommy and daddy don't have any money to help racking up 60k is easy as hell.

I haven't had help from mommy and daddy since I was 18. I managed to get through college with zero debt. It takes 6 years instead of 4 years, but I think it's a reasonable tradeoff. 2 years at a JC with part time job, work 1 year full time job, transfer to university, attend 1 year with part time job, work 1 year full time job, attend 2nd year with part time job, then graduate.

I don't understand the need/want to graduate in 4 years with tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with some of the worst loan terms ever produced. Also, why wouldn't you take lower division classes at a community college, then transfer? It'd save you $20,000-$40,000 a semester to not retake high school at the University. So you don't graduate in 4 years, why the rush?

I guess I'm missing something. I know college is expensive, but it doesn't have to be with some planning, even for a stupid schmuck like me.

Up here, with what I imagine would be considered cheap tuition ($5000/year for undergrad, although it's much higher than that now in most places), plus rent (I paid $4500-10 grand during my years), plus living expenses......I mean, I made decent money for a university student (17k-20k during summers), and I certainly couldn't do it debt-free. Then when I did higher education with tuition $13k/year, it was impossible.

Sure you could do it part-time and work full-time, and then you miss a couple years of working at your actual career. So......that's a pretty specialized way to do it in my books. Sure, you could, but...

Shaddim · Oct 4, 2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

I'd wager that the 2 extra years of income at a degree-ed job more than make up for any student loan interest. At least in my case.
For some programs, sure. But not all (or even most?). Is there a way to quantify the quality of an education? If a larger university can offer more qualified professors, more extensive technology, etc., would it not be an advantage to have access to that for four years instead of just two?

Depends on your focus of study. In my case, it was all about the professors. I almost went to Duke, but changed my mind at the 11th hour and chose Vandy because someone there impressed me and offered a mentorship.

andi*pandi · Oct 4, 2012, 04:37 PM

Colleges are incredibly expensive, but there is the perception you'll be more successful with their degree than a state school.

I lucked out and got scholarships which made my student loans relatively low <10k... 4 years at my school would have been about 90k.

A friend got out of college with 80 grand in loans.

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 12, 2012, 05:11 AM

Wait. As someone in the Porsche thread pointed out to me......you have at least 2 cars and a boat. Right? How much would you get for one of your cars and the boat? Would that pay off a good chunk of your debt?

Uncle Skeleton · Oct 12, 2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by knifecarrier2

and ... blah, I just have so many questions. I need a forum full of shady-assed accountants that work with shady republicans and know how to get away with what. Anybody know of one?

www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance

Bring a thick skin and lots of patience. And don't sign up for anything until you fully understand it (you know, unlike the graduated student loan payments). Cutting corners comes with real risks, and those that get away with it are able to do so because they're subsidized by those who don't pay attention to what they're signing.

My two bits: cheap loans will be found through promotions, not through borrowing more than 100% against an asset. The latter just isn't going to happen and is a waste of time. But there's lots of free (to borrow) money out there from promotional rates, if you do the legwork to transfer the balance every 11 months until you can pay it off. If you have good credit.