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nikhsub1 · Jun 23, 2007, 12:37 AM

Err, Ive been building PC's for over 20 years. NEVER HAS ONE DIED DUE TO ESD. EVER.

chipchen · Jun 23, 2007, 01:06 AM

That just makes you lucky. "ESD" must be like a fairy tale to you. Hopefully you continue to stay lucky.

Oh, and your signature doesn't really make sense.

analogika · 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Geofries

See I'm in the same boat as you guys, ready to make the jump, but just seeing WAY too many posts about too many problems.

If I'm going to spend 3k, or near 3k, my machine needs to be absolutely perfect. Anything less is unacceptible.

a) A lot of people feel exactly the same way you do.

b) Most people post on these forums only BECAUSE THEY HAVE PROBLEMS.

c) Apple is selling a ****load of machines.

d) Most of the people buying them do NOT post on these forums.

What does this tell us?

MacosNerd · Jun 23, 2007, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

What does this tell us?

That we like to complain

mduell · Jun 23, 2007, 07:08 PM

59-60C idle is quite high for a laptop CPU; 40-50C is much more typical. It's also going to shorten battery life and cause the case to be hotter (hotter CPUs burn more power).

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Heat from a CPU doesn't just radiate upwards but outwards too throughout the ceramic CPU package.

Right, because ceramics are known for their great thermal conductivity.

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Are the MacBook Pro's CPUs socketable?

The chips are offered in both socketed (used in the iMac and Mac mini) and soldered (used in the MacBook and MacBook Pro) format.

Originally Posted by iampivot

Any theory why there's a 6-7 degrees difference between the GPU diode and the GPU heatsink, as istat indicates?

Thermodynamics. You need a temperature differential to move heat.
But the temp sensors installed in computers typically aren't terribly accurate anyway.

JKT · Jun 23, 2007, 08:18 PM

If the OP is willing, wouldn't the logical experiment to perform be the re-application of excessive paste (of the kind he is now using) to his mobo to see if the temps go back up again? So far, in all these threads on the excessive application of thermal paste, I have not seen one person actually do any proper, controlled testing to see whether the conjecture and hypotheses each camp puts forward is true or not.

vertigociel · Jun 26, 2007, 01:09 AM

I have a C2D 2.16 GHz machine which I purchased in April. It's never been too hot for me to use, as the bottom of the case never gets higher than about 40 C (though the area above the keys can get quite toasty). However, is does have a very high idle temp.

Right now, iStat Pro reports a 62 C temp on the CPU, and 54 C on the GPU, up from 32 C on both when I woke it up from sleep an hour ago. In the meantime, I've just been surfing the web, chatting on Adium, and running iTunes - lightweight stuff. 62 seems way too high a temperature. When I'm running Photoshop CS3 and/or Painter X, it usually gets up between 70 and 80 C.

I'm considering taking it in to the Apple Store to see if they'll take a look at the paste, but I'm wondering - has Apple formally acknowledged this problem anywhere? What are my chances of getting a Genius to take a look?

mduell · Jun 26, 2007, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by vertigociel

I'm considering taking it in to the Apple Store to see if they'll take a look at the paste, but I'm wondering - has Apple formally acknowledged this problem anywhere? What are my chances of getting a Genius to take a look?

It's not a problem/bug/issue. The assembly techs are following the directions supplied to them.

ghporter · Jun 26, 2007, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by vertigociel

I'm considering taking it in to the Apple Store to see if they'll take a look at the paste, but I'm wondering - has Apple formally acknowledged this problem anywhere? What are my chances of getting a Genius to take a look?

Originally Posted by mduell

It's not a problem/bug/issue. The assembly techs are following the directions supplied to them.

If AND ONLY IF your computer is demonstrating real issues that are conceivably due to poor cooling, Apple would "take a look at it." If it's just warmer than you like, then as mduell says, it's NOT a problem.

Get a REAL burn from the case of your MBP and you may have something. Have the thing start throwing kernel panics when it's noticeably hot and you may have something. Thinking there's an issue because there's a bunch of Internet hoopla about how the machine is (correctly, and according to Apple's instructions) assembled is NOT something Apple will consider to be a real problem.

soon2bmac · Jul 9, 2007, 09:58 PM

Okay so now that the bottom of my brand new 17" MBP just topped off at a scorching 105 degrees on the enclosure bottom. What have we decided as being the best thermal paste to try and eliminate this heating issue? Id rather keep my leg hair.

MacosNerd · Jul 9, 2007, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by soon2bmac

Okay so now that the bottom of my brand new 17" MBP just topped off at a scorching 105 degrees on the enclosure bottom. What have we decided as being the best thermal paste to try and eliminate this heating issue? Id rather keep my leg hair.

Two things, first re-applying the thermal paste will no eliminate the heat possibly reduce it, in some cases slightly, in other cases (as in the OP moderately).

Second, apple states in their KB article you really shouldn't be using the notebook on your lap,i.e., its not a laptop.

If you are not experienced at taking apart or working on notebooks, I'd caution you to try to dismantle your MBP. The risk of damage is greater then the potential savings from the heat.

I don't know what the temperature of the bottom of my MBP is but the cpu averages 40 to 60c for low to medium work and that's right in the neighborhood of your 105f and from what I've read the 40 to 60c temps appear to be normal. If your cpu temps are in that range, you probably will not see too of a drop if you re-apply the thermal paste

Simon · Jul 10, 2007, 04:08 AM

I don't find it surprising that a CPU running at 50C-75C causes your case to reach 105F (41C). Although you might find that uncomfortable on your lap, I doubt that's abnormal and I'm certain Apple will not perform warranty "repair".

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jul 10, 2007, 05:52 AM

A cool running PowerBook G4 averages 47-55C during normal operation and up to 65-70C with intensive work so I certainly wouldn't complain if a Core 2 Duo with much more processing power emitted the same heat. Above that is very high though.

What are the predictions for Intel's CPUs for the coming year heat and power wise?

GuillaumeB · Jul 10, 2007, 06:46 AM

Excuse my noobiness here but as I just bought a 15,4 inch widescreen macbook pro i'd like to know how to measure the temperature of the CPU just to check out on my side

MacosNerd · Jul 10, 2007, 07:26 AM

This Dashboard widget will give you the temperature readings you're looking for.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jul 10, 2007, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by GuillaumeB

Excuse my noobiness here but as I just bought a 15,4 inch widescreen macbook pro i'd like to know how to measure the temperature of the CPU just to check out on my side

Search for 'temperature' on versiontracker.com and also Apple's Dashboard widgets page has utilities.

GuillaumeB · Jul 10, 2007, 08:16 AM

thanks guys I'll try the widget and check out the website

malone · Jul 10, 2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by soon2bmac

Okay so now that the bottom of my brand new 17" MBP just topped off at a scorching 105 degrees on the enclosure bottom. What have we decided as being the best thermal paste to try and eliminate this heating issue? Id rather keep my leg hair.

Also, as I've noted in one of the other MBP heat/temperature threads, the CPUs used in the MBPs are designed to handle high temperatures. Re-pasted here:

I've come to the following conclusions:

The MBPs get very hot (~80C under heavy load).
This is okay/normal.
Okay/normal as it may be, cooler is better.

In particular, you may want to check out this summary table of the maximum heat these CPUs are built to sustain:
Processor Electrical Specifications

Specifically, desktop processors and early mobile processors are not designed to sustain as much heat as some of the newer ones. The Intel Mobile C2D 2.2 and 2.4 GHz processors as used in the latest MBPs are built to take 100C (compare to their desktop cousins, which are only designed to take up to ~60C). 80C is well under 100C, so while cooler is still better, the heat isn't a grave concern nor outside the prescribed boundaries.

Hope this helps everyone a bit.

GuillaumeB · Jul 10, 2007, 09:18 AM

Alright so I installed the widget and it says
In Celsius

CPU A: 52°
GPU Diode : 57°
GPU HeatSink: 52°
HeatSink A: 51°
HeatSink B: 42°
Enclose Bottom:33°
Memory Control...: 48°
FUJITSU MHW21:36°

So what do you think? Are these data normal?

Simon · Jul 10, 2007, 11:21 AM

52C is absolutely normal for the CPU.

tmoney468 · Jul 10, 2007, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by malone

Specifically, desktop processors and early mobile processors are not designed to sustain as much heat as some of the newer ones. The Intel Mobile C2D 2.2 and 2.4 GHz processors as used in the latest MBPs are built to take 100C (compare to their desktop cousins, which are only designed to take up to ~60C). 80C is well under 100C, so while cooler is still better, the heat isn't a grave concern nor outside the prescribed boundaries.

Hope this helps everyone a bit.

This is a little OT but the Desktop Conroe CPUs generally can run up to 85C before they are either throttled down or completely shut down...definitely not 60C

Spliffdaddy · Jul 10, 2007, 09:37 PM

*sigh* you've got me missing the good ol' days when I'd spend hour upon hour polishing the surface of my Celeron 300A to a mirror shine in an effort to achieve a perfect mating surface with my Panaflo orb heatsink. You knew you got it exactly right when thermal paste made the temps worse. That was the price you had to pay in order to see 450MHz.
I was an overclocking addict for many years. To the point where there was nothing left to try. I used to taunt the MacNN SETI team with my dual P3 Xeon machine. My work unit times were so low that everybody thought I was cheating. And in a way, I guess it could be said that I was. Mostly because I was using a pair of unlocked 800MHz engineering sample Xeons meant to run at 133MHz FSB. If you know anything about P3 Xeons, then you know Intel never made an 800MHz variety. And they never made any Xeons that used a 133MHz FSB. At the time, the fastest Xeon was 700MHz. Mine ran at 1,000MHz using heatpipes from a Compaq 8-way server. Made PowerMacs look really slow.
How does this relate to the subject of this thread? Honestly, it really doesn't. But that's the reason I first discovered MacNN all those years ago. Anyhow, years of experience seems to indicate that too much thermal paste is always a bad thing. And actually, the fact that thermal paste is necessary only means that the thermal junction is inefficient to begin with. Also keep in mind that heatpipes have a 'light-off' temperature. That is, a minimum temperature threshhold must be met before the wicking fluid will boil and make heat transfer possible. Until that minimum temperature is reached, a hollow-ish piece of copper tubing makes for a really bad heatsink. I don't know what sort of fluid Apple uses in their heatpipes, but if they were seeking efficiency then the 'light-off' temperature is fairly high. Maybe that explains the fact that Apple's notebooks have a higher-than-usual CPU idle temperature.