[Kevin]

This was tooki's msg to Rail about Rob.

Originally Posted by tooki 

He's not supposed to be here, but simultaneously, we have warned you repeatedly to stop harassing him.

tooki

People only harrass Rob when he is dodging bans. Most of the time these SAME PEOPLE also report Rob to the admins and mods when they first see him.

If Rob was banned within oh say an hour or so of said reporting (which isn't unreasonable amount of response time to expect) you'd not have this problem.

But for some reason the Mods and or admins let him go for days posting and flaming people.

Which of course causes REAL MEMBERS of the forum to defend themselves and usually flame him back.

You really can't expect people to not defend themselves against his attacks.

Either put up with people defending themselves from Rob's attacks or ban him sooner so it doesn't happen.

You can't honestly blame forum members for the lack of admin/mod response.

[Chuckit]

Or how about people take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the BogeyRob? (Also, there is a big difference between defending oneself from an attack and attacking or harassing somebody else.)

[Gossamer]

Ideally, the unbanned members would be mature enough to ignore him. It's easy to pick out Rob's new names and ignore them right away.

But I agree that mods seem to let him go on too long, letting him stick around a while before the inevitable happens and he flames people and spew profanity. It's almost as if they're saying "Maybe THIS time he'll behave himself."

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

You really can't expect people to not defend themselves against his attacks.

Either put up with people defending themselves from Rob's attacks or ban him sooner so it doesn't happen.

You can't honestly blame forum members for the lack of admin/mod response.

Kevin, this is BS.

Railroader should be able to defend himself w/o doing things that are explicitely forbidden, i.e. flamebaiting, posting Rob's identity etc.
If RR is not able to stick to the rules, he needs to be banned, too.

Cut that victim mentality crap.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Or how about people take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the BogeyRob? (Also, there is a big difference between defending oneself from an attack and attacking or harassing somebody else.)

Exactly right.

-t

[Mastrap]

Kevin: BS.

Railroader has some sort of bone to pick with Rob. I believe that this goes back to the time when Rob posted a picture of RR's kid. Which, truth be told, wasn't cool.

However, RR's vendetta against Rob is getting ridiculous. Rob's behaviour is no worse than RR's excesses, than you yourself at times, than many other posters. In his latest incarnations Rob has been remarkably civilized until RR thought it necessary to a: out him and b: start insulting him. Rob, up to this point, had been avoiding RR. Don't make it sound as if RR was a victim here, he started the scrap but Rob took the blame for it.

Maybe you and RR should stop ganging up on Rob and start thinking about modifying your own behaviour.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Or how about people take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the BogeyRob? (Also, there is a big difference between defending oneself from an attack and attacking or harassing somebody else.)

I have been told that people that don't belong to this forum aren't off limits. Rob doesn't belong to this forum anymore. And I agree with your statement. I have been pvt messaged simply for taking up for myself againt Rob however.

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Ideally, the unbanned members would be mature enough to ignore him. It's easy to pick out Rob's new names and ignore them right away.

And if admins and mods expect users to do this, they too should practice the same act when others attack them.

But I agree that mods seem to let him go on too long, letting him stick around a while before the inevitable happens and he flames people and spew profanity.

And when it happens, and they know it will they act all rightous about it. As if they have nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

Kevin, this is BS.

Railroader should be able to defend himself w/o doing things that are explicitely forbidden, i.e. flamebaiting, posting Rob's identity etc.
If RR is not able to stick to the rules, he needs to be banned, too.

Cut that victim mentality crap.

The rules are to not attack forum members. Rob is no longer a forum member for one.
For two ROB HIMSELF gave his name out in here.

Rob is just using it as a scape goat to attack RR.

RR has given no info out that Rob himself hasn't provided.

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Railroader has some sort of bone to pick with Rob.

For GOOD REASON. A lot of members in here do. FOR GOOD REASON.

I believe that this goes back to the time when Rob posted a picture of RR's kid. Which, truth be told, wasn't cool.

He not only posted it, but Photoshoped it too I believe.

However, RR's vendetta against Rob is getting ridiculous. Rob's behaviour is no worse than RR's excesses, than you yourself at times, than many other posters.

I disagree.

In his latest incarnations Rob has been remarkably civilized until RR thought it necessary to a: out him and b: start insulting him.

Rob will never be civil in here. Rob needs to stop trying to come in here at all. When that happens the problem doesn't exist.

Rob, up to this point, had been avoiding RR.

Because he knew if he didn't he would be found out and banned. Not because he suddently stopped acting like an ass.

Don't make it sound as if RR was a victim here, he started the scrap but Rob took the blame for it.

I would say Rob started it by ban evading.

Maybe you and RR should stop ganging up on Rob and start thinking about modifying your own behaviour.

I haven't said crap to Rob. Me expecting the mods to keep the guy banned isn't me ganging up on him. This actually has very little to do with Rob or RR.

But the mods not doing anything, then getting pissy when stuff happens.

As others pointed out, Rob gets reported ASAP. It usually takes DAYS for Rob to get banned however. Usually in that time he does damage. And then the mods get pissy when people respond or take up for themselves.

If Rob would STOP ban evading, or if the mods would START banning him soon after being reported then this problem would simply cease to exist.

I am sure a mod will come in and say "We have lives too" And that is fine

But when it takes DAYS to do something it's more than just "Having lives"

If mods or admins have that little of a time to spend here they don't need to have said status anymore.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

In his latest incarnations Rob has been remarkably civilized until RR thought it necessary to a: out him and b: start insulting him. Rob, up to this point, had been avoiding RR. Don't make it sound as if RR was a victim here, he started the scrap but Rob took the blame for it.

In the Standalone mp3 player thread, Rob was busy acting self righteous and right about everything as usual when RR realized who he was. He called him by his real name once. I replied immediately with 'please not this again.' RR posted saying he should probably not start it, and from that point on ceased to use Rob's name. At that point Rob exploded and the thread went completely downhill without RR using Rob's name again, if I remember it all correctly.

[Dakar²]

I do believe I've heard the argument that people aren't allowed to attack rob wily-nilly because he is a member, just a banned one.

That may have come from Tooki or Demonhood themselves. It happened fairly early in my Lounge career (Around this time last year, roughly).

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I do believe I've heard the argument that people aren't allowed to attack rob wily-nilly because he is a member, just a banned one.

That may have come from Tooki or Demonhood themselves. It happened fairly early in my Lounge career (Around this time last year, roughly).

Yeah, it was when wth started a poll about Rob and claimed it was okay because Rob wasn't a member.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I do believe I've heard the argument that people aren't allowed to attack rob wily-nilly because he is a member, just a banned one.
That may have come from Tooki or Demonhood themselves. It happened fairly early in my Lounge career (Around this time last year, roughly).

You are right. I thought Kevin would have gotten that memo by now.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I have been told that people that don't belong to this forum aren't off limits. Rob doesn't belong to this forum anymore.

The rules are to not attack forum members. Rob is no longer a forum member for one.

Kevin, you seem to have a short memory, as this matter has been discussed many times before.

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...ghlight=member

Here the executive summary (according to the mods / admins):

* Rob is STILL a member, a banned member
* he is NOT FAIR GAME

How do I know ?
Because I got temp-banned as turtle777, flamebaiting Rob. Yes, I didn't know the rules when it happened, and tooki explained it to me.

It baffles me that you still claim ignorance.

-t

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I disagree.

Of course you do.

[Atheist]

At first I thought this thread was a joke...


...and then I realized...


...it's not.




Hello people... step away from the keyboard. There's a real live world out there with real live people. This is just an Internet forum.

What's all this talk about "defending oneself"? Defending against what/whom? Are you in danger of having your "honor" damaged by a nameless, faceless person whom you will never actually meet in your lifetime? This is some pretty funny $H!#.

[Atomic Rooster]

Railroader has a history of harassment. He derails and blames the person he's harassing.

On the other hand Rob is OK by me.

[Timo]

Maybe one should not just ban Rob but everyone associated with Rob. All those poor SOBs "defending themselves." Think of it kind of like containing an outbreak.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Timo 

Maybe one should not just ban Rob but everyone associated with Rob. All those poor SOBs "defending themselves." Think of it kind of like containing an outbreak.

Rob who ?

-t

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakar� 

I do believe I've heard the argument that people aren't allowed to attack rob wily-nilly because he is a member, just a banned one.

That may have come from Tooki or Demonhood themselves. It happened fairly early in my Lounge career (Around this time last year, roughly).

I was told once when I was banned that I could not report people who were personally attacking me. I was banned. And that I was fair game.

Of course like most "rules" here they only apply to certain people at certain times when the mods see fit.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

Kevin, you seem to have a short memory, as this matter has been discussed many times before.

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...ghlight=member

Here the executive summary (according to the mods / admins):

* Rob is STILL a member, a banned member
* he is NOT FAIR GAME

How do I know ?
Because I got temp-banned as turtle777, flamebaiting Rob. Yes, I didn't know the rules when it happened, and tooki explained it to me.

It baffles me that you still claim ignorance.

-t

I am not claiming ignorance. Non-members are not protected here. Tooki's excuse that rob is a member just "banned" one is a cop-out. Though that rule didn't apply to me when I reported people for personally attacking me when I was banned and "fair game" as tooki said.

Again, inconsistency is at fault.

RR got banned the FIRST time because he thought that Rob was fair game. Because I told him that. Why did I tell him that? Because tooki told me that when I was banned.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

Railroader has a history of harassment. He derails and blames the person he's harassing.

On the other hand Rob is OK by me.

Your stance is flawed. Rob has done 10x the damage RR has.

BTW RR got banned because of this.

Had mods done their job it wouldn't have happened.

[mac128k-1984]

You guys are taking this way too serious. This is only a forum, as atheist said, step away from the keyboard and enjoy life.

This whole RR/Rob thing seems to have gotten out of hand. Even if the mods are being unfair or inconsistant (not that I believe they are) who cares - there's a real world out there lets enjoy it.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

There's a real live world out there with real live people. This is just an Internet forum.

Which is part of the real world. With real live people. People's lives have been destroyed because of things posted on the Internet.

Just the same, though, yeah, people take things here way too seriously. Whether here or at your local McDonalds, seriously, who gives a flip about this petty crap?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I am not claiming ignorance. Non-members are not protected here. Tooki's excuse that rob is a member just "banned" one is a cop-out. Though that rule didn't apply to me when I reported people for personally attacking me when I was banned and "fair game" as tooki said.

Again, inconsistency is at fault.

RR got banned the FIRST time because he thought that Rob was fair game. Because I told him that. Why did I tell him that? Because tooki told me that when I was banned.

Agreed, inconsistency is at fault.

But your personal case of fair game is a couple of years old.
It seems that the latest "ruling" is towards no fair game.
And since the admins / mods are the god's here, we gotta accept it.

-t

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

You guys are taking this way too serious. This is only a forum, as atheist said, step away from the keyboard and enjoy life.

This whole RR/Rob thing seems to have gotten out of hand. Even if the mods are being unfair or inconsistant (not that I believe they are) who cares - there's a real world out there lets enjoy it.

I've heard many mods say this. They will also say if someone is personally attacking you to just ignore it.

I find these same mods are the ones that are quick to lock a thread, or delete posts that personally attack them.

It's easy to give advice to others in situations we simply have never been in, or aren't in at the time.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

Agreed, inconsistency is at fault.

But your personal case of fair game is a couple of years old.
It seems that the latest "ruling" is towards no fair game.
And since the admins / mods are the god's here, we gotta accept it.

-t

I was giving the reason why RR was even banned to begin with in Rob's case.

It wasn't his fault. He believed Rob was fair game because I told him he was.

I told him he was because I was told by tooki that a person under said situation was fair game.

This modding by the seat of their pants thing keeps biting them on the ass.

There is no one to watch the mods so they don't care.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I've heard many mods say this. They will also say if someone is personally attacking you to just ignore it.

I find these same mods are the ones that are quick to lock a thread, or delete posts that personally attack them.

It's easy to give advice to others in situations we simply have never been in, or aren't in at the time.

True that.

Again, we could whine all day long about inconsistency here. Doesn't do any good.
The fact is, banninated members are not fair game (any more). And RR would do well to get his emotions under control.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I was giving the reason why RR was even banned to begin with in Rob's case. It wasn't his fault. It was tooki's for saying one thing in one instance, and treating it totally different in another.

Yes, but in Rob's defense, RR is a repeat offender when it comes to posting Rob's full name. RR knows EXACTLY what he is doing, and that it is provoking the living heck out of Rob. He has even done it after his ban, although he edited his post later.

-t

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

True that.

Again, we could whine all day long about inconsistency here. Doesn't do any good.
The fact is, banninated members are not fair game (any more). And RR would do well to get his emotions under control.

My point was it was tooki's fault that RR was even banned in the first place. Sending opposite signals out then banning when people get confused.

That and if the mods would get their act together and get rid of Rob in a more timely fashion, like it has been requested by most of the forum then things like this wouldn't happen.

I am not blaming tooki or any mods for RRs actions THIS TIME. But I am blaming them for yet again letting Rob linger about in the forum unbanned.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

In the Standalone mp3 player thread, Rob was busy acting self righteous and right about everything as usual when RR realized who he was. He called him by his real name once. I replied immediately with 'please not this again.' RR posted saying he should probably not start it, and from that point on ceased to use Rob's name. At that point Rob exploded and the thread went completely downhill without RR using Rob's name again, if I remember it all correctly.

This is what happened. Not the slanted version some are painting in here. And RR was banned because of this.

I think since Rob isn't even supposed to be here that the mods could have looked over such a minor infraction as *gasp* saying Rob's real name!
(which everyone in this forum that cares knows anyhow because Rob has told us himself before)



There are far worse people in here launching REAL honest personal attacks daily that aren't banned.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I've heard many mods say this. They will also say if someone is personally attacking you to just ignore it.

I think that is some sage advice and too bad neither Rob or RR seem to be able to ignore each other.

[Gossamer]

I'm talking about the thread from like last week. RR didn't get banned again did he?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

I think that is some sage advice and too bad neither Rob or RR seem to be able to ignore each other.

If Rob wasn't here like he is supposed to be no one would have to ignore him.

My point was, those that give that advice often don't follow it when in the same situation.

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

I'm talking about the thread from like last week. RR didn't get banned again did he?

RR just got banned.

[Gossamer]

I see that now.

And if my memory serves me correctly, the mods cleaned that thread up and everything was fine and dandy until Rob came back TWICE more and made a stink about it, and then RR was banned. I call BS on the ban. Not saying he was innocent, but definitely not ban worthy.

[Mastrap]

I disagree. RR did everything he could to rile Rob. When all else failed he used the one option he knew would get Rob to explode: Posting Robs real name. RR did this on purpose, he is not an innocent guy who didn't know what he was doing or who doesn't know the rules.

The ban is well deserved.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

I disagree. RR did everything he could to rile Rob. When all else failed he used the one option he knew would get Rob to explode: Posting Robs real name. RR did this on purpose, he is not an innocent guy who didn't know what he was doing or who doesn't know the rules.

The ban is well deserved.

The thread went to crap AFTER RR used Rob's real name and then decided to quit.

[Kevin]

Mastrap usually comes to Rob's defense on most anything dealing with him.

Get used to it.

I used to take up for Rob too at one time. Even got flamed for it.

Now I know why.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

I see that now.

And if my memory serves me correctly, the mods cleaned that thread up and everything was fine and dandy until Rob came back TWICE more and made a stink about it, and then RR was banned. I call BS on the ban. Not saying he was innocent, but definitely not ban worthy.

Esp not when there are people doing WORSE things to actual MEMBERS of the forum.

No use to complain though. Mods wont retract it.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

If Rob wasn't here like he is supposed to be no one would have to ignore him.

My point was, those that give that advice often don't follow it when in the same situation.


RR just got banned.

I'm not arguing that, but if RR ignored Rob then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Rob keeps coming back here because he can rile people up.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

I'm not arguing that, but if RR ignored Rob then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Actually we would because if it wasn't RR it would be someone else. Again easy to tell someone to ignore another person when you aren't that person.

Rob keeps coming back here because he can rile people up.

No, Rob keeps coming back here because he said he doesn't respect his ban.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

No, Rob keeps coming back here because he said he doesn't respect his ban.

No agument there

[brokecollegestudentF04]

I for one think railroader is a decent guy me and my bf have dealt with him on multiple occasions in person, I dont see a thing wrong with the guy..

[residentEvil]

ah yes; threads about other members. no sense in complying to any rules eh?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by brokecollegestudentF04 

I for one think railroader is a decent guy me and my bf have dealt with him on multiple occasions in person, I dont see a thing wrong with the guy..

Rail is one of the nicest people in here. I am not saying he is innocent from doing anything wrong. No one here is.

The mods need to take what Rob has done to Rail over the past 3 or so years into consideration as well. Rail would have never done crap to Rob had Rob not personally attacked him and his family over the past years. So for Rob to come and whine about Rail treated him unfairly in a forum that Rob has been perm banned from is laughable.

I was once told by a Demonhood that people treated me a certain way because of the way I have been in the past. That I was going to just have to live with it because of the things I have done in the past. Which are about as 1/4 as "evil" as the things Rob has.

For someone like Rob that has no respect for anyone but himself, to expect respect back is laughable.

I think Rob gets treated fairly in here according to the way he has acted over the years. If anyone treats him poorly it's a direct result of how he has treated others.

And he has shown NO sign of trying to act otherwise. Never has.

Rail getting banned was just personal bullshit from the person who banned him.

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

ah yes; threads about other members. no sense in complying to any rules eh?

This thread is about bad forum policy that has been going on for years. That continues to. Not about any one person.

I've shown 3 examples in the past few weeks alone of inconsistent actions coming from the mods, and users being punished because of said indiscretions.

And not once has a mod owned up to it. What usually happens is the thread gets locked, and a person gets told to drop it.

[residentEvil]

if it was policy, they you could have done so without talking about a particular member than, couldn't you?

since you started right out talking about two members; it seems you created a thread to talk about them; and it happened to be about, what policy is it? harrasment? who is and who isn't a member? ban evasion?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

if it was policy, they you could have done so without talking about a particular member than, couldn't you?

Giving examples.

I surely hope you aren't going to get into an argument about the reason I started this thread.

since you started right out talking about two members; it seems you created a thread to talk about them; and it happened to be about, what policy is it? harrasment? who is and who isn't a member? ban evasion?

Again, using them as an example. The policy is not following along promptly. There are times mods know Rob is posting, and does nothing. Then when a scuffle breaks out between him and another user, like it always does, that user gets scolded. Had the mod banned Rob when he first showed up, like the users in this forum has requested multiple times, this would have never happened.

Did you not read any of my posts?

[imitchellg5]

I think Rob has been pretty nice in his last few user names, especially as Sbterfuge. It seems as if certain members provoke him.

[residentEvil]

nope, no argument being started. simply stating you aren't following policy either; for it if where exampleS you would have other ones right? of course not. it is cash this and cash that; kilbey this and kilbey that. two users, doing the same thing often...is not examples; it is an example.

of course, you don't get that. you are the most vocal so your views on the forum is how it should be run.

it is amazing more users don't leave.

hmmm...others may have the right idea.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I think Rob has been pretty nice in his last few user names, especially as Sbterfuge. It seems as if certain members provoke him.

No he hasn't. As others pointed out he has acted the same. While Rail did say something that made him go Over The Top oldschool Rob, he will still acting like Rob. His typical rude condescending self.

If it wasn't RR, it will be someone else. And all they have to do is simply disagree with him on something and he is calling them names or making fun of where they work.

Regardless he is perm banned.

[Kevin]

Ah so you ARE going to argue with me about my own intentions of starting this thread. Great. I am sure you know better than I.

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

nope, no argument being started.

I told you my argument. No one else seems to have problems understanding it.

you would have other ones right? of course not.

I gave a few examples indeed. You haven't read my posts.

it is cash this and cash that; kilbey this and kilbey that. two users, doing the same thing often...is not examples; it is an example.

Again go back and read my posts.

of course, you don't get that. you are the most vocal so your views on the forum is how it should be run.

No, they can run it with whatever rules they want. I just ask them to be consistent.

I assure you, I know why I posted this thread a TINY bit better than you.

My rant for the past few years has been about mod consistency.

Now re-read my posts in this thread again.While I am talking about Rob and RR in my rant, the rant isn't really about them.

[imitchellg5]

The thing is, Rob will always be around. No matter how much we complain, he'll be here. He's one of those people in life who you just have to live with.

[residentEvil]

ah, gotcha kevin. okay. i read it not twice, but 3 times your original post. you are right, you know why better than anyone.