[alisonc]

I downloaded DEVONthink, thinking that it was a document browser that would help me organize and view the documents on my hard drive. In fact, it creates its own database and whatever changes you make to documents within it are NOT made to the original documents themselves (you have to set up something more complex to be able to sync with documents on your hard drive, and I have the impression that you have to do this manually). So it's not what I was looking for, which is the equivalent of iPhoto or iTunes for documents. A program that displays all your documents and in which you can organize, view, and edit them directly. I searched VersionTracker and didn't find anything...

Does such a program exist?

[Chuckit]

There is no such thing as a "document." The term could refer to any file on your hard drive � Word files, RTFs, JPGs, Quark layouts. There are many programs for editing these files. The program for browsing and organizing them is called "Finder."

[alisonc]

Sorry�I meant text documents. I'm looking for a program that will allow me to view/organize documents in the way that the Finder does, but that allows me to view/edit them in the main window without having to launch Word or TextEdit. Basically, a text document browser. Ideally, it would leave the files in place wherever they are on the hard drive, but allows them to be organized into groups or by keyword, category, etc. and to be viewed and edited quickly and easily, and they would be searchable by date, title, or content.

The Finder is not adequate for organizing text documents in this way, and it does not offer viewing or editing capabilites.

[larkost]

There are some document management systems, but they are mostly concerned with PDF's, and definitely do not allow for editing. I just don't see how such a system would really be useful most of the time. A little creative use with the live find in the Finder gets me the files I want really quickly, and knowing how to use this to help me open the file from within programs gets me the rest of the way. And this is just going to get better with 10.4.

[alisonc]

With all due respect, I *do* think such a program would be useful. If I just want to search for a document I can, of course, easily use the Finder. But what if I want to group documents both by date and by subject without having to duplicate them? And I want to be able to browse through many documents without having to launch each individually in Word? For serious writers this would be a very useful tool, the equivalent of iView or Photoshop's Image Browser for text documents.

DEVONthink is a really interesting program which does all of the above, but it lacks the ability to "live edit" files on the hard drive (it creates its own database and copies the documents into it). I just thought there might be a program out there that does what DEVONthink does while also allowing files to be edited "live".

[TETENAL]

The only program that can "live edit" Word documents properly is Microsoft Word, so it would be best to add such a .doc browser to Office. I believe Microsoft has done this with the Project Gallery.

[Fonzie]

I'm sorry if this is not in the right alley, but PathFinder, I believe, can view Word documents just browsing like you would in Finder. It opens a drawer for it.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by alisonc:
But what if I want to group documents both by date and by subject without having to duplicate them?

Use aliases? Wait for Tiger and Spotlight?

[alisonc]

OK, I can see that no one else here understand me.

[ApeInTheShell]

The Terminal is quite capable I beleive of doing that. It is just the text editor you use that is the key.

[gzeus]

The lack of understanding in this thread is baffling. The variety of notebook / scrapbook type applications like Devonthink is one of the coolest things about the mac and fits in well with the entire iLife paradigm. After using these types of applications, someone could get quite comfortable with single clicking a "file" and having it appear instantly in a side pane for editing (think the Finder's preview window for text docs, only big enough to be useful and with full editing capabilities). The original poster expressed concern with the Devonthink database, perhaps because of data integrity, perhaps because she doesn't want the extra formality of having her data mediated by another application. Skinkhunt Notes is (supposed) to be able to do this, but the developer has pulled the application because of an illness. If you want to sort your documents by criteria such as date modified and even keywords, you might want to try Hog Bay Notebook. You don't work with files directly, but you can export your document to a directory structure with one click (so you'd edit your document and export it at the end of the day). If you click on your library and select a flattened view, you can sort your documents regardless of where they are in the directory structure (for instance, it will show you the most recently edited files), which is the kind of functionality the finder can't provide. But a document browser, as it is mostly used by programmers, is known as a "project manager". My two favorites are Smultron (free, but doesn't allow nested folders) and skedit ($20) These don't provide the 'sort by date' features you need, but you get to work with your *.txt files directly, and the ability to edit without "opening" them will definitely improve your productivity.

[midwinter]

A while back I wrote about my dream application: iDocument.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by gzeus:
After using these types of applications, someone could get quite comfortable with single clicking a "file" and having it appear instantly in a side pane for editing

I don't see a particular benefit to this for text documents. Also, it still doesn't address the fact that there is no such thing as a "document." Do you mean it should deal with Word files? RTF? HTML? XML? TeX? Writers use a lot of different file types. One size probably won't fit all.

Originally posted by gzeus:
the ability to edit without "opening" them will definitely improve your productivity.

How many documents do you need to hand-edit in a 30-second period? Does the second-long wait to open a document seriously create such a bottleneck your productivity? Most people take longer than that just to think of the right word for a catchy sentence, so I'm having a hard time believing it.

[gzeus]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
there is no such thing as a "document." Do you mean it should deal with Word files? RTF? HTML? XML? TeX?

You're wide-ranging over too many file formats. The notebook apps that I mentioned export to *.rtf files which allow for pictures and formatting, while the project manager apps use *.txt files. I use the project manager apps because I prefer working with unformatted text, which lets me write without worrying about formatting. I'm also able to run my *.txt files through shell scripts to show me useful things such as all recently changed text, or to give them metadata like keywords. For instance, I'll tag a text file with a tag like @Theme:Christmas, and then from the shell get a list of all my themes, and with one command launch all files that have a particular theme. In this instance, the terminal program becomes my finder.
"Well, that wouldn't work for me, I use *.doc, *tex, *.pdf ..."
Ok, fine. I believe you.

Does the second-long wait to open a document seriously create such a bottleneck your productivity? Most people take longer than that just to think of the right word for a catchy sentence

Half of writing is the actual writing, which is between the writer and himself. The other half is finding a context for what you're writing, which is between the writer and his computer. I'm much more productive working with text files when I'm writing, and prefer to use tools that are built for working with text files rather than general use tools like the Finder.

[Millennium]

Wonderful: another bloatware "The App That Does Everything". Or maybe not. If only OpenDoc had taken off, something like this would not have been at all difficult to create, nor would there need to be much in the way of physical bloat. The fact that OpenDoc failed can be blamed on Apple, who -in its usual style- dragged its feet on providing documentation and never delivered on its promises to turn the OS9 Finder and ClarisWorks into OpenDoc containers. Without Apple's support, it is no wonder that the OpenDoc failed.

But anyway, what you're talking about sounds like a workflow manager. This would stil require you to open applications to edit most documents, but frankly complaining about this is little more than whining.

[cpac]

It sounds like maybe you ought to re-think your workflow.

e.g. why not use something like OmniOutliner 3 (or that Devonthink you bought) and just write with that application?

These outliners do a good job generally of oranizing things, and they will allow you to edit things "live."

But to answer your first question, even in litigation environments, where we do have real document "browsers" that can go through files and view everything from .pdf and .doc to .xls and even .dwg within a single application - we do NOT have the capability to edit these documents on the fly. Given the fact that the different formats you use are only editable by different programs, you're stuck with a basic choice:

(1) embrace the Finder (really it's not that bad at organizing files, and if you just leave your common file editors Word, TextEdit, etc. open, it shouldn't slow you down much)

(2) start writing *within* an application like OmniOutliner 3 (or devonthink, or whatever) so that you have instant-edit capabilities.

[jmcphee]

Alison, I know just what you mean. Perhaps a hypertext writing program similar to DevonThink will work for you. I know of Storyspace and Tinderbox, both by Eastgate Systems:

http://www.eastgate.com

Their software is expensive, and I personally have never tried it, but in its favor several creative writings programs use it, particularly that at Brown University.

Another program is called Flow, from the Near-Time group:

http://www.near-time.com/PRODUCTS/flow.htm

I believe their software is oriented more toward group information management, but their website also claims the program may function as "an elegant hypertext authoring system".

Good luck to you and may you share in all manner of good things.

[Forenheit]

Yep, Tindebox is certainly THE tool that you need.
Amazing possibilities : quite difficult to get in compare to most of applications, but so usefull (outliner, blog, document browsing, note taking, to do task). It exist a lot of templates that allows you to start quickly using it.
But I thing that spotlight will also fit some of your needs, I mean a metadata and semantic approach of your documents.
Believe me , you should try Tinderbox, a demo is available at eastgate.