[darcybaston]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak 

I use Photoshop CS2, Aperture, TextMate, and Parallels software on a daily basis, and this 2.33 MBP has gracefully replaced my desktop G5.

LLF, I'm looking to replace my G5 dual core 2GHz with a MBP. How good are the Intel Core 2 Duos at media conversion? I do a lot of H.264 encoding and Ableton Live recording.

[Don Pickett]

My two cents:

I'm typing this on my seven year old Pismo, which is still going strong. It was my main machine for about five years, from the time I got it until I got my G5. In that time it did everthing I needed it to, from Quark and Photoshop to playing games to all the every day stuff we do, and it did it all well. I have maxed out the memory (1 GB) and replaced the original 12 gig drive with a 40 gig one. It runs the latest version of OS X remarkably well.

All that said, I don't see having another laptop as my main machine again. Because of the lack of expandabilty, laptops get older more quickly than desktops. Laptops, by nature, aren't as expandable as desktops. I just put a 320 gig drive, another 2 gigs of RAM and an X800XT into my G5, which will easily give the machine another couple years of really good performance. The big Achilles Heel of the Pismo is the graphics chip which, with 8 megs of VRAM, just doesn't cut it with today's stuff. This is a problem with all laptops, as given the rate of change in the graphics card world, no matter how pimped out your laptop's graphics card is, it will be, at best, middle of the road in two or so years, and obsolete soon after. Given laptop limits on RAM and drive space, it's the same story with those components as well.

[alexjdb]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

My two cents:

I'm typing this on my seven year old Pismo, which is still going strong. It was my main machine for about five years, from the time I got it until I got my G5. In that time it did everthing I needed it to, from Quark and Photoshop to playing games to all the every day stuff we do, and it did it all well. I have maxed out the memory (1 GB) and replaced the original 12 gig drive with a 40 gig one. It runs the latest version of OS X remarkably well.

All that said, I don't see having another laptop as my main machine again. Because of the lack of expandabilty, laptops get older more quickly than desktops. Laptops, by nature, aren't as expandable as desktops. I just put a 320 gig drive, another 2 gigs of RAM and an X800XT into my G5, which will easily give the machine another couple years of really good performance. The big Achilles Heel of the Pismo is the graphics chip which, with 8 megs of VRAM, just doesn't cut it with today's stuff. This is a problem with all laptops, as given the rate of change in the graphics card world, no matter how pimped out your laptop's graphics card is, it will be, at best, middle of the road in two or so years, and obsolete soon after. Given laptop limits on RAM and drive space, it's the same story with those components as well.

I have the same dilemma as the poster, wheter to get expandability or mobility. I use DreamWeaver, Flash, Photoshop CS2 and Premiere. Now I don't know what to take. Both configurations :

- Mac Pro 2.0GHZ quad, 1GB RAM +Dell 20" : $2600 CAD +edu (with a couple upgrades later)
- MacBook Pro 2.33 15" stock : $2600 CAD +edu (with limited upgrades later)

would cost in around the same price; however, with the 8800GTX (I'm a fan of the FarCry/Crysis series also) coming, and expandability, I'm not sure what I should take. The X1600XT will be surely outdated in a couple of months; I don't want this to handicap my future computing. Sure, portability is a plus, but nothing beats the ability to get 500gb more space for $150 on ebay and just opening the case, plugging the hard drive in and closing the case. I think I'd prefer the Mac Pro, with a used G4 12" PB for mobility; but I'd like advice. Since the xeon in the macpro is 333mhz less, would i have a performance loss ?

Thank you for your opinions, and sorry for my bad english ... I'm french

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by alexjdb 

Sure, portability is a plus, but nothing beats the ability to get 500gb more space for $150 on ebay and just opening the case, plugging the hard drive in and closing the case. I think I'd prefer the Mac Pro, with a used G4 12" PB for mobility; but I'd like advice. Since the xeon in the macpro is 333mhz less, would i have a performance loss ?

Thank you for your opinions, and sorry for my bad english ... I'm french

Screw eBay: Just go to New Egg.I got a 320 gig SATA drive there for $90.

My question to you about this would be to ask for how long do you intend for this to be your main machine. If you will replac it after one or two years you probably won't notice it getting that outdated. But, if you're like me, and tend to keep your machines for years, the extra expandability of the Mac Pro will be a benefit. Additionally, I believe the processors in the Mac Pros are socketed, so it is possible you will be able to buy a faster processor in two years' time and make the machine last even longer.

[SierraDragon]

Your English is fine. The MBP is a great box, quite strong (mine is a 17" C2D with 3 GB RAM) but its real raison d’être is the portability. If you can live without the portability a MP is the better choice. Personally I find the benefits of portability HUGE.

-Allen Wicks

[alexjdb]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

Screw eBay: Just go to New Egg.I got a 320 gig SATA drive there for $90.

My question to you about this would be to ask for how long do you intend for this to be your main machine. If you will replace it after one or two years you probably won't notice it getting that outdated. But, if you're like me, and tend to keep your machines for years, the extra expandability of the Mac Pro will be a benefit. Additionally, I believe the processors in the Mac Pros are socketed, so it is possible you will be able to buy a faster processor in two years' time and make the machine last even longer.

Yes, I think I'd keep it for a quite long time (maybe 5-6 years), so maybe in this way I'd be better off going with a MacPro. However, I forgot to mention that I'm occasionnaly DJing at parties, so for this I'd be better off with a MBP... I really don't know ... (and thanks for the newegg tip )

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Your English is fine. The MBP is a great box, quite strong (mine is a 17" C2D with 3 GB RAM) but its real raison d’être is the portability. If you can live without the portability a MP is the better choice. Personally I find the benefits of portability HUGE.

-Allen Wicks

I know benefits of portability; I currently own a Toshiba Celeron laptop... (It's not that bad for the software I use... lol) and it sure is nice taking it around with me; however, if my graphics are going to be outdated in 2-3 years and I can't change the card, I'd regret my purchase...

I could also get the MacPro and buy a used 12" PB G4 on eBay for portability... Would that be OK or it is even not worth the cost ?




Thanks for your replies !
alexjdb

[SierraDragon]

The 12" G4 PB is pretty cool if all you need to do is surf the net, send emails and compose simple text and light spreadsheets. If you accept the limitations a MP plus a 12" PB is a sweet solution. My friend has one and it seems to work fine for that, but she does feel the slowness and is considering a newer laptop. For larger spreadsheets or anything graphics the lack of pixels and screen real estate is a big negative.

-Allen Wicks

[alexjdb]

Here's what I would do with the notebook I'd buy:

- Surf the net, MSN.
- Word documents (almost only text, with a couple pictures)
- Powerpoint presentations at school (there may be a lot of graphics in there)
- Light photoshop
- Light dreamweaver
- Temporary place to store pictures while away from MacPro
- DJ'ing with Tracktor/iTunes, etc.

What would you recommend ? I'd prefer staying below the $3200 bar for all my setup. If I can't get a suitable mac for my requirements (both performance & price), would you recommend a... PC ???

Thanks,
alexjdb

[darcybaston]

I love it how with every new generation of laptops, or even after several steps including desktops, the older ones are always referred to as computers only useful for :

if all you need to do is surf the net, send emails and compose simple text and light spreadsheets.

while at the time, it was the generation or two before that was referred to as that, and the current gen was for audio, video, games and more.

I've done some pretty decent audio engineering, web/graphic design and video conversion on a 14" 933MHz iBook G4. Sure it was slower than my current setup, but it did just fine. It was cutting edge once and the generation before it was designated for light email, spreadsheets and web surfing.

The same is true for an even older iMac 400MHz. With that, I did just as much web/graphic design and audio recording along with media conversion. Sure it was a bit slower than the iBook, but it did just fine. It was cutting edge once and the generation before it was designated for light email, spreadsheets and web surfing.

The same is true for an even older 25MHz 68030 acceled Amiga 1200. With that I did just as much web/graphic design and audio recording along with 3D animation and MP3 to AIFF conversion. Sure it was a bit slower than the iMac, but it did just fine. It was cutting edge once and the generation before it was designated for network studio camera work (8MHz A2000 with video toaster), 3D rendering (Lightwave/Sculpt Animate), software design (C, Pascal, ASM and more), Usenet, email, BBSs, page layout and print design, spreadsheets and text IRC.

We really have to stop doing that. The 12" G4 Powerbook is a very capable workhorse that can still do heavy lifting beyond what some might say.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by alexjdb 

I forgot to mention that I'm occasionnaly DJing at parties, so for this I'd be better off with a MBP. . .

Carry the Mac Pro with you. You won't need to go to the gym.

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by alexjdb 

Here's what I would do with the notebook I'd buy:

- Surf the net, MSN.
- Word documents (almost only text, with a couple pictures)
- Powerpoint presentations at school (there may be a lot of graphics in there)
- Light photoshop
- Light dreamweaver
- Temporary place to store pictures while away from MacPro
- DJ'ing with Tracktor/iTunes, etc.

What would you recommend ? I'd prefer staying below the $3200 bar for all my setup. If I can't get a suitable mac for my requirements (both performance & price), would you recommend a... PC ???

Thanks,
alexjdb

i am not an expert or anything, but i would suggest that you go with the MacBook Pro 15 or 17 and get the student discount if you can
To me that is the best way to go. I personally got the 17 with as many bells and whistles as i could to replace my desktop.
Honestly it has, i would definitely recommend a good backup drive or 2.
In my Mac exp... this laptop has replaced my desktop and then some. I do more with my MacBook Pro than i even did with any desktop.
Mostly because it is with me and "just works"

[ryaxnb]

Originally Posted by zaghahzag 

i use a 2.0 dual g5 with 4 gigs of ram and a mbpro with 2 gigs of ram. at home, i use the mbp pugged into a 22 inch screen with a wireless keyboard and mouse.

It's a great setup and completely useable. With that said, it's about hte same speed as the g5 with all the memory. For photoshop (non-intel) the g5 completely spanks the mbpro.

If I were you, i'd get a macpro w/ 4 gigs of ram, and then if you need portability get a macbook.

for your uses, a macpro will have a much longer lifespan because of the amazing amount of ram you can put in there, whereas the macbookpro will reach some its limit at 3gigs.

also, some of the work you do will go 1.5 to 2x faster on the macpro than on the mbpro.

not to mention that you can have 5 sata drives in a macpro.

I'd have to suggest a Mac Pro. The ideal machine would be very expensive though: About $3700-4300.
Mac Pro
2 or 2.66 Ghz Processor Quad-core
4GB RAM (Crucial)- The programs you use are RAM hogs- and 3GB is probably not enough.
500GB HD - The HD in a MacBook Pro might not be enough either, 500GB guarantees future compatibility, or you could get a 250 GB and save up for a 750GB HD later on (providing One TB of storage). New programs are getting very hungry for HD.
ATI Radeon X1900XT - Aperture is also happier with more VRAM and more graphics, and so will be 10.5 and most likely 10.6. A MBP will not have the necessary graphics hardware for 10.5 and Aperture and Photoshop running altogether. If you don't want the X1900, you could get the 7300 and save up for a X1900 later or a NVIDIA 8800 if they ever come out for mac.
20" Cinema display - Obviously this is optional. Use whatever display you like. However Apple's 20" Cinemas are well known for their incredible clarity. You could also get a Dell 24" - that's another good choice.
iWork '06 - Just 'cause/

[ryaxnb]

Originally Posted by alexjdb 

I have the same dilemma as the poster, wheter to get expandability or mobility. I use DreamWeaver, Flash, Photoshop CS2 and Premiere. Now I don't know what to take. Both configurations :

- Mac Pro 2.0GHZ quad, 1GB RAM +Dell 20" : $2600 CAD +edu (with a couple upgrades later)
- MacBook Pro 2.33 15" stock : $2600 CAD +edu (with limited upgrades later)

would cost in around the same price; however, with the 8800GTX (I'm a fan of the FarCry/Crysis series also) coming, and expandability, I'm not sure what I should take. The X1600XT will be surely outdated in a couple of months; I don't want this to handicap my future computing. Sure, portability is a plus, but nothing beats the ability to get 500gb more space for $150 on ebay and just opening the case, plugging the hard drive in and closing the case. I think I'd prefer the Mac Pro, with a used G4 12" PB for mobility; but I'd like advice. Since the xeon in the macpro is 333mhz less, would i have a performance loss ?

Thank you for your opinions, and sorry for my bad english ... I'm french

Well according to these Geekbench scores, a Mac Pro scores 3926 at 2Ghz, and the new MBP's score 3034, so performance shouldn't be an issue. On non-optimized programs, no significant increase is likely, but I also really doubt you would have a noticeable drop. FYI, a non-optimized program is one which is not optimized for multi-core very much; they will still run better on a quad-core most likely though; especially if you're doing multi-tasking or they're written in Cocoa. Definitely I think the graphics would be better on a Mac Pro; that would also offset most any performance loss if for some reason there was one as Mac OS X loves graphic increases, particularly OS X 10.5 (due out in October). Video editing takes up GBs of space and the MBP has no eSATA port for good external HD connection; you'd have to get a Card and driver. Overall, the Mac Pro is better for what you do, IMHO.

[ryaxnb]

Originally Posted by alexjdb 

Yes, I think I'd keep it for a quite long time (maybe 5-6 years), so maybe in this way I'd be better off going with a MacPro. However, I forgot to mention that I'm occasionnaly DJing at parties, so for this I'd be better off with a MBP... I really don't know ... (and thanks for the newegg tip )



I know benefits of portability; I currently own a Toshiba Celeron laptop... (It's not that bad for the software I use... lol) and it sure is nice taking it around with me; however, if my graphics are going to be outdated in 2-3 years and I can't change the card, I'd regret my purchase...

I could also get the MacPro and buy a used 12" PB G4 on eBay for portability... Would that be OK or it is even not worth the cost ?




Thanks for your replies !
alexjdb

There is nothing wrong with a 12" PB g4! It is a very practical second machine or main one; it can do pro work; it is reasonably zippy; etc. But here's a hint. Before you go doing business with someone on eBay who you don't know and might not trust (I've had several good and a couple bad experiences on eBay) try this: http://www.lowendmac.com/deals.shtml. They scour the web for the best prices on Macs. For instance, this http://www.powermax.com/product/Cert...6e53bc3f9e86e5 is a typical good deal on LEM Deals. $919 1.33 Ghz PMG4 12" 60GB HD, 512MB RAM and a 90-day warranty.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by darcybaston 

I love it how with every new generation of laptops, or even after several steps including desktops, the older ones are always referred to as computers only useful for : while at the time, it was the generation or two before that was referred to as that, and the current gen was for audio, video, games and more.

You must have lived a different generation of "graphic design" than I did. Photoshop was essentially unusable on laptops until the later G4 Powerbooks, and even those (I own the strongest PB G4 as well as the strongest MBP) were limiting enough that all my graphics work was done on a tower. Not that the app would not "run" but simply that it was impossible to do productive work (meaning time cost effective). Only if one was only experimenting or doing simple student projects were older laptops viable boxes for graphics.

-Allen Wicks

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by alexjdb 

Here's what I would do with the notebook I'd buy:
...presentations at school (there may be a lot of graphics in there)

IMO for students/instructors the versatility of a laptop makes a MBP the only choice. Yes it means you get a 3 year life cycle instead of 4-6, but the benefits of portability far outweigh the disadvantage of shorter life cycle. The only exception might be folks doing the kind of serious number crunching that would tax even loaded Mac Pros.

-Allen Wicks

[iREZ]

students/users or professionals on the go = notebook

users or professionals who arent on the go = desktop

[peeb]

Originally Posted by molarszbt18 

A laptop will never be as fast as a desktop, but the portability function won for me. BookEndz does sell docks now for the MBP which is even a sweeter deal. You really have to think about it. $2,500 on a laptop could get you a sweet iMac if not close to a MacPRo

Well, the top of the line current desktop will be faster than the current top of the line laptop, but a new tol laptop will likely be faster than last year's tol desktop.

[Clive]

I have been using a 867 MHz 12" PowerBook as a desktop replacement for the last three years. I always use it in "clamshell" mode and it's running a 19" screen at 1600*1200.

For me it's the perfect combination of portability and usability – if I take it out with me everything is right there ready to be used. On a regular basis I'm using XPress, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Acrobat – the biggest processor hog is Safari (no idea why that it, it just is).

For the most part I get along with that setup - but it can get frustrating with very complex Illustrator, or large Photoshop document. Though, generally I live with that problem.

You should only think about this option if you're really in need of a portable workstation (which is what I require), or you need portability for some other reason. My take on size is that people who buy large screened laptops are the same people that buy large or flashy cars - they are making a statement about their own inadequacies. For my own part I would love to be able to buy a 12" replacement for my current PowerBook, but Apple seems to think no one wants that machine - I genuinely feel that a 15" is too big to lug around.

When you're being seduced by the bigger screen, just remember this: any time you have it at your regular office or home you can have it plugged in to a larger screen, and when you're on the road do you really need extra pixels.

[RevEvs]

Just what I did..

I used to have a Dual 2Ghz G5 PM, and I swapped that for a MBP C2D @ 2.33 - and i couldnt be happier, it is so so much better than the PM.