Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Jobs is Officially Gone, Apple Slooowws

Jobs is Officially Gone, Apple Slooowws (Page 4)
Thread Tools
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2012, 05:19 PM
 
I think that Apple will eventually work to improve the onscreen keyboard in the iPad, either by one of those tactile technologies you sometimes see demoed or by letting it project a keyboard on a surface. I do not think that they will make a physical keyboard part of the iPad.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2012, 05:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
That must be why it's so unpopular
So, no one appreciated the iPad 2 being lighter when it was released?

Regardless, I was responding to your proposal to make the thing even heavier.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2012, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
You're negative. Most engineering types are. Instead of thinking about possibilities they think of ways things can't work. If the world was full of people like you we'd still live in caves.
Show us on the doll where the engineer gave you a bad touch.
     
Wiskedjak
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2012, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I'd say were more likely to see an iPad with a keyboard at some point.

It's not very Apple-ey, that's for sure, but at some point they are going to hit a wall as for ways to keep selling people new iPads.
I have no problem carrying a bluetooth keyboard with me when I think I might want a physical keyboard for my iPad.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2012, 10:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
You're negative. Most engineering types are. Instead of thinking about possibilities they think of ways things can't work. If the world was full of people like you we'd still live in caves.
Muahahahaha. What kind of bullshit is that ?

As if all the great products we have seen from Apple were purely an invention of industrial designers.

Designers dream, engineers make it happen. So, keep dreaming. But it'll stay a dream until an engineer makes it an actual product. Because designers can't do that.

-t
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2012, 10:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So, no one appreciated the iPad 2 being lighter when it was released?
Apparently not enough to matter (much), since the weight bounced back up with v3, and it was still a hit.

Regardless, I was responding to your proposal to make the thing even heavier.
You could have said the same thing about the proposal to make the iPad 3 heavier than the iPad 2. The point is, lighter weight is fine and dandy all things being equal, but it shouldn't stand in the way of other improvements.

Did you miss the suggestion of modularity? It doesn't even have to be limited to two parts (screen and "dock"). You could have 5 parts: the iPad-alike, the cpu/ram module (uses up your ipad battery in 2 hours), the bonus battery module, the keyboard module, and the connectivity module. With all 5, you have a complete macbook pro, and what you don't need (today) you can leave at home. The difference between this concept working and not working is whether the modules fit together well (like the battery on most phones) or poorly (like the video dongles on most macs).
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2012, 11:21 PM
 
What you're describing is exactly the opposite of what Apple is doing with the MacBook Pro.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 05:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
That must be why it's so unpopular
The argument is that users would very much prefer an iPad that weighed half. Not that this is technically possible right now, especially given the larger battery and heavier screen components.
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Apparently not enough to matter (much), since the weight bounced back up with v3, and it was still a hit.
Apple's products are about trade-offs: much better screen > weight savings in this case.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
What you're describing is exactly the opposite of what Apple is doing with the MacBook Pro.
And the ability to think different™ by not being a slave to their momentum is one of the things that makes them a successful innovator. The switch to Intel was exactly the opposite of what they were doing, right up until they did it. The question isn't "will they" or even "could they," the question is "would it be good if they."


Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
The argument is that users would very much prefer an iPad that weighed half. Not that this is technically possible right now, especially given the larger battery and heavier screen components.

Apple's products are about trade-offs: much better screen > weight savings in this case.
Same for much better expandability/flexibility.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 11:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Same for much better expandability/flexibility.
No, I agree with that. But the argument that weight isn't an issue, because the iPad is selling like hot cakes is a non sequitur. It just means, people are willing to make the trade-off.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
knifecarrier2
Baninated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Muahahahaha. What kind of bullshit is that ?

As if all the great products we have seen from Apple were purely an invention of industrial designers.
-t
Uh, yeah actually. Apple is known for putting a LOT of weight into ID, instead of just designing a box around some components. They utilize design thinking not only for the products themselves, but also the entire experience such as the iTunes store. So. ... yeah.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
No, I agree with that. But the argument that weight isn't an issue, because the iPad is selling like hot cakes is a non sequitur. It just means, people are willing to make the trade-off.
That's why the complaints about weight in the first place are the non sequitur. People ARE willing to make the trade-off, that's why it doesn't really matter as much as other obstacles. For example, I don't think people would be willing to make the trade-off of using a 10-inch screen on a laptop, nor of using a 13-inch screen on a tablet. So it's either ride the margins at 11-inches, or develop flexible or modular screens, which while the technology isn't non-existent, it hasn't been brought to market before. That I think represents a far bigger challenge (though not impossible), than simple weight which has been a selling product within a wide spectrum for 2 decades already.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 01:17 PM
 
I think people have realized that the one size fits all paradigm is wrought with problems. There is really no point in building a tablet to be as powerful as a laptop at higher cost and higher weight and lower battery life, just to use the thing as a tablet. That's the worst of both worlds.

Buy a 7-10" tablet, and then buy a separate 13" laptop. Best of both worlds.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I think people have realized that the one size fits all paradigm is wrought with problems. There is really no point...
That's one way to look at it. Another is that the laptop+monitor crowd has dwarfed the laptop+desktop crowd in recent times, because the type of unavoidable trade-offs you list below (horsepower, longevity, bulk, etc) aren't unavoidable afterall.

in building a tablet to be as powerful as a laptop at higher cost and higher weight and lower battery life, just to use the thing as a tablet. That's the worst of both worlds.
It would not have lower battery life. If you keep saying that without addressing it, it will be clear you're just a troll.

It might not have higher weight. That is a design choice, not a necessity (I'm talking about modularity).

Higher cost... debatable. Early adopter vs economy of scale will dominate the outcome of this hurdle.

It wouldn't be "just to use as a tablet." It would be the same pattern as laptops are today, just better at it: you use it at your desk 1/2 the time, as a portable 1/4 the time, and as an ultraportable/tablet/media device the rest of the time. When laptops first became affordable, people were trying to use them on the bus, in bed, on the toilet, in the elevator, everywhere. Eventually it became clear that these "portables" weren't really portable enough. We're still chasing that goal, and a modular tablet-book is a reasonable strategy for it. You really can't use a laptop, even a macbook air, while standing on the bus or in the elevator holding it in one hand and controlling it with the other. But you could hold a 7-10" module of it, accessing your own current-version documents and settings, with the rest of the notebook in your hand-bag until you have a moment to sit down. This would be superior in every way compared to carrying the entire 'book in your bag and twiddling your thumbs until you get off the bus.

Buy a 7-10" tablet, and then buy a separate 13" laptop. Best of both worlds.
"Buy a workstation, and then buy a notebook. Best of both worlds." I hope I don't have to convince you that an increasing number of people have been proving this to be an anachronism. The days of the anemic "mobile" processor are behind us, and the same can be true of all other components of the system, if we want them to be.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 02:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
"Buy a workstation, and then buy a notebook. Best of both worlds." I hope I don't have to convince you that an increasing number of people have been proving this to be an anachronism. The days of the anemic "mobile" processor are behind us, and the same can be true of all other components of the system, if we want them to be.
The days of the anemic tablet CPU are definitely not behind us, and won't be for several more years.

If you're talking more than 5 years from now, I might agree with you, but definitely not in the near future. It's simply impractical.

Similarly, if you had said to me in 1986 that laptops would dominate in 5 years, I would have laughed at you, and rightly so. However, if you had asked me that same question in 2000, I would have said maybe or even probably.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The days of the anemic tablet CPU are definitely not behind us, and won't be for several more years.

If you're talking more than 5 years from now, I might agree with you, but definitely not in the near future. It's simply impractical.

Similarly, if you had said to me in 1986 that laptops would dominate in 5 years, I would have laughed at you, and rightly so. However, if you had asked me that same question in 2000, I would have said maybe or even probably.
But even in 1986/1991 only the technology was lacking, not the demand. Portability isn't more useful now than then. I thought that "best of both worlds" implied there was no room for improvement, not no budget for improvement. So if that's not what you meant, then I'm sorry your post didn't come across.

So what exactly is limiting the technology? Do you really think the limiting factor is weight? I think it's far more limited by screen size. Even with a magical weightless tablet, I wouldn't want to be swinging 13" around with just one hand; 10 inches is about my limit (). From this perspective, I see 4 options: modular screen, flexible (folding) screen, projection screen, or HUD glasses.

If weight really is the limiting factor, then what constrains the weight? Do you agree with my previous post that it's (first) battery, (second) cooling and (third) screen? Why couldn't the battery just be modular, adding almost nothing to the total weight of either configuration over the status quo? Batteries are already just a collection of modules inside. On the other hand, I would have expected Apple to figure out how to make wireless power work by now. They're such a fan of reducing the number of wires, and Nikola Tesla had the basics worked out already in the 1800s. I think if they get wireless power working as well as wireless internet, then the weight issue evaporates for the casual home or office consumer.

I guess the other side of the coin is, what do you gain from an all-in-one system over two separate ones? I think what you gain is unity of data and system state. If I'm typing at a desk and I suddenly want to go somewhere, those are the things I lose by picking up a different machine. Therefore, you should be able to transfer/access your data and system state to/from another terminal. Maybe this is what they're trying to do with the Cloud™, but in my opinion it's a non-starter to depend on the mothership for this feature. A more appealing version would be a USB (or equivalent) key that lets you transfer your data and system state to your pad/mobile whatever and back again, easily. That would really be the "best of both worlds." And by virtue of it being a software-only solution, it's more within reach IMO. All the more so for the only company that controls the whole widget, software and hardware.

Edit: one more advantage of a one-size-fits-all is clutter (reduction). And that is definitely on Apple's stated agenda. The mini? The cube? The ADC cable? Even... the iMac? All of these are about reducing clutter, and I think that appeals to a lot of consumers too. Remember that iPod ad where the room full to the ceiling with CDs turns into a clean utopia with just a pod sitting in the middle... that's all about clutter. Having two gizmos on the shelf, when one is a subset of the other, is a distinct opportunity to add value, via "less is more."
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 05:37 PM
 
I think the cloud will have far more reaching importance for the tablet. The modular designs you describe needlessly complexify these products, and add weight, cost, and size.

What worries me though is that Apple has been notoriously bad with the cloud and other networked data products, at least when it pertains to day-to-day productivity for end users.

.mac
Mobile.me
iCloud
iMessage

These have all been riddled with problems.
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I think the cloud will have far more reaching importance for the tablet. The modular designs you describe needlessly complexify these...
Jesus, where did complexify come from?
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 06:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I think the cloud will have far more reaching importance for the tablet. The modular designs you describe needlessly complexify these products
On the contrary, it's not needless. I can go into detail about how this would benefit the consumer, but I would hope that explaining this to you would be.... "needless"

And I don't object to your word but it would not complixify things it would simplify them. Currently you have two discrete devices, and to access the same files from each is a complex hodge-podge of syncing, iTunesing, compatibility errors, and likely third-party hacks and work-arounds. Making it so both OSes (skins) can access the same data and system state reduces complexity. Transitioning from two LCDs on your desk to one reduces complexity.

and add weight, cost, and size.
On the contrary, reducing the weight and size (of the laptop-pad combo) is the whole point of this concept. Of course, none of us can know how much cost would be involved, except to say that R&D costs go into every upgrade from every company, and this would be no different.

What worries me though is that Apple has been notoriously bad with the cloud and other networked data products, at least when it pertains to day-to-day productivity for end users.

.mac
Mobile.me
iCloud
iMessage

These have all been riddled with problems.
Don't forget privacy and security. And planned obsolescence. The old line about "your Mac can do just as much today as it did when you bought it, no matter how much better the new model is." This is not true if they stop serving you iClouds.
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
On the contrary, it's not needless. I can go into detail about how this would benefit the consumer, but I would hope that explaining this to you would be.... "needless" ... a bunch of stuff
You know what the reality is? Apple is widely successful because of products like the iPad. The iPad has focus and simplifies things. What you're proposing is the opposite. All those tablets that are convertible laptops have failed in the market. Nobody wants them. They're ugly, clumsy, heavy... and everything else.

Let's repeat the analogy to you: desktops are like trucks, tablets and smartphones are like efficient cars.

Reality is reality my man, and the market has spoken.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You know what the reality is? Apple is widely successful because of products like the iPad. The iPad has focus and simplifies things. What you're proposing is the opposite. All those tablets that are convertible laptops have failed in the market. Nobody wants them. They're ugly, clumsy, heavy... and everything else.
The same was true of the multitude of dedicated tablets before the iPad, of the crackberries and Palms before the iPhone, and of the Nomads etc before the iPod. The clumsiness hasn't been the concept, it's been the implementation. What those convertible tablet makers need is some serious industrial designers

Let's repeat the analogy to you: desktops are like trucks, tablets and smartphones are like efficient cars.
and a cross-over tablet-top would be like an SUV then? You know, those things that are totally dominating the consumer vehicle world, precisely because people want (at least to tell themselves) to do it all, commute AND adventure AND haul cargo, without incurring a second parking spot? Yeah I guess you're right, car analogies do work

Reality is reality my man, and the market has spoken.
It sure has: people want one-size-fits-all, and as soon as someone finds a way to deliver it without stepping on their own toes while doing it, they'll be the next market leader.
     
mattyb
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 07:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
Uh, yeah actually. Apple is known for putting a LOT of weight into ID, instead of just designing a box around some components. They utilize design thinking not only for the products themselves, but also the entire experience such as the iTunes store. So. ... yeah.
Dunno what they do at Apple, but I've never heard of industrial designers working on software.
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 07:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
The same was true of the multitude of dedicated tablets before the iPad, of the crackberries and Palms before the iPhone, and of the Nomads etc before the iPod. The clumsiness hasn't been the concept, it's been the implementation. What those convertible tablet makers need is some serious industrial designers

and a cross-over tablet-top would be like an SUV then? You know, those things that are totally dominating the consumer vehicle world, precisely because people want (at least to tell themselves) to do it all, commute AND adventure AND haul cargo, without incurring a second parking spot? Yeah I guess you're right, car analogies do work

It sure has: people want one-size-fits-all, and as soon as someone finds a way to deliver it without stepping on their own toes while doing it, they'll be the next market leader.
No.

You'll never get the thin and light aspect of the iPad with a be everything device that you propose, and that the market proposed for over a decade and failed.

It's like a radio station trying to be all things to all people. Microsoft is being criticized for it now with Windows 8: a hybrid tablet/desktop OS.

Imagine if you were in charge... we'd have 1 device with a keyboard, mouse, and larger monitor hanging off of it.

A product is about compromises. The market has spoken.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2012, 10:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
No.

You'll never get the thin and light aspect of the iPad with a be everything device that you propose, and that the market proposed for over a decade and failed.

It's like a radio station trying to be all things to all people. Microsoft is being criticized for it now with Windows 8: a hybrid tablet/desktop OS.

Imagine if you were in charge... we'd have 1 device with a keyboard, mouse, and larger monitor hanging off of it.

A product is about compromises. The market has spoken.
Don't blow a gasket there, chief. No one is going to force you to buy it if you don't like it. But even Eug said it was only a matter of time, he just doesn't think it will be this decade. I think it could be. Meanwhile, I find it hilarious that someone finally agrees with you in this place, saying they too think Apple hasn't done enough to change the market's mind about what they want, and instead is just coasting on minor updates; so what is your response to that, you get snippy. Is someone else stealing your contrarian spotlight?
     
knifecarrier2
Baninated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 12:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Edit: one more advantage of a one-size-fits-all is clutter (reduction). And that is definitely on Apple's stated agenda. The mini? The cube? The ADC cable? Even... the iMac? All of these are about reducing clutter, and I think that appeals to a lot of consumers too. Remember that iPod ad where the room full to the ceiling with CDs turns into a clean utopia with just a pod sitting in the middle... that's all about clutter. Having two gizmos on the shelf, when one is a subset of the other, is a distinct opportunity to add value, via "less is more."

Egg ****ing zactly. And when both devices both have similiar hardware (screen, CPU, GPU, ram, storage) and the only real differentiation is keyboard/trackpad or touch interface, it is DESTINED to become one device. Again.. you people can nay say me all you want, but you'll just look like an even bigger idiot in a few years when it happens and resurrect this thread to point out how dumb you are.
     
knifecarrier2
Baninated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 12:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Dunno what they do at Apple, but I've never heard of industrial designers working on software.
You realized that user interface design is a subset of ID right?
     
knifecarrier2
Baninated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 12:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post

A product is about compromises. The market has spoken.
Shit changes man. By declaring the market has spoken and that is the end is stupid. IF that were true you better still be using your walkman.
     
Wiskedjak
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 12:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Dunno what they do at Apple, but I've never heard of industrial designers working on software.
I began my career as an industrial designer, but I've been a user interface designer for the last 8 years. The only difference between industrial design and user interface design is the material used. Many industrial designers cross back and forth between pixels and plastics.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 12:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
Egg ****ing zactly. And when both devices both have similiar hardware (screen, CPU, GPU, ram, storage) and the only real differentiation is keyboard/trackpad or touch interface, it is DESTINED to become one device. Again.. you people can nay say me all you want, but you'll just look like an even bigger idiot in a few years when it happens and resurrect this thread to point out how dumb you are.
You said that should have been the device now.

Everybody points out how that's not possible now, and you respond with "wait a few years and I'll show you what idiots you are!"

     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 01:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
That's why the complaints about weight in the first place are the non sequitur. People ARE willing to make the trade-off, that's why it doesn't really matter as much as other obstacles.
I disagree. They're not willing to make the compromises you propose.

If you add a pound to the iPad 3, you've just made a shitty tablet. The thing could blow me as a feature and I still wouldn't buy it because my hand would cramp up from the weight before it was finished. Using a tablet isn't supposed to be exercise.

A three pound laptop is a svelte laptop. A three pound tablet is unusable.


Edit: my apologies. I'm in a bad mood and that came off as way more hostile than intended or deserved.
( Last edited by subego; Jun 18, 2012 at 01:30 AM. )
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 01:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Don't blow a gasket there, chief. No one is going to force you to buy it if you don't like it. But even Eug said it was only a matter of time, he just doesn't think it will be this decade. I think it could be. Meanwhile, I find it hilarious that someone finally agrees with you in this place, saying they too think Apple hasn't done enough to change the market's mind about what they want, and instead is just coasting on minor updates; so what is your response to that, you get snippy. Is someone else stealing your contrarian spotlight?
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 01:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by knifecarrier2 View Post
Shit changes man. By declaring the market has spoken and that is the end is stupid. IF that were true you better still be using your walkman.
Stupid indeed. What you don't understand is that some of us may be thinking of the next paradigm, and the one after that. That we don't think in terms of continuing a paradigm and product line forever. That some companies out there nail a particular product category, in a specific time and space... like Apple does... and sooner, rather than later, it'll become antiquated by the next paradigm.

I'm not interested in resurrecting a failed product (convertible laptops) that's over a decade old. I'm interested in things that'll replace multi-touch interfaces. Things that'll further abstract the computer away from the user.

You might want to check out the Apple and search thread for examples of this.
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 01:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I disagree. They're not willing to make the compromises you propose.

If you add a pound to the iPad 3, you've just made a shitty tablet. The thing could blow me as a feature and I still wouldn't buy it because my hand would cramp up from the weight before it was finished. Using a tablet isn't supposed to be exercise.

A three pound laptop is a svelte laptop. A three pound tablet is unusable.


Edit: my apologies. I'm in a bad mood and that came off as way more hostile than intended or deserved.
This.
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 02:20 AM
 
Doubt this would have gotten by Jobs - Smart Case falls flat:

Review: Smart Case for iPad [Video] | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 02:40 AM
 
Has Apple ever not made a sucky case?

The iPod case which scratched the **** out of your iPod got by Steve.

It's a perk in Ive's contract that he gets to kidney-punch people working in the case division whenever he feels like it.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 04:23 AM
 
The original iPad Case was good.

It wasn't the prettiest case, but it was pretty much the best one out there.

Smart Cover's pretty cool, too.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 04:27 AM
 
It was nastiness personified. Boned the dock connector too.

As for the Smart Cover, its a Smart Cover, not case.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 04:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Doubt this would have gotten by Jobs
It's really, really time for this "What would Steve have done" bullshit to stop.

Seriously.

It's pathetic. Not just this thread.

Reality kills. Jobs is dead. Deal with reality, and shut up about some weird morbid fantasy imaginary leadership figure.

Maybe they should have put him in a mausoleum on the Apple Square in the new headquarters, so that people could line up to see him, in a glass box, folded hands clasping a shiny red wax Apple. Then they could ask him for advice.

I heard he was close with Disney. Maybe they could help.
 
     
freudling  (op)
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
It's really, really time for this "What would Steve have done" bullshit to stop.

Seriously.

It's pathetic. Not just this thread.

Reality kills. Jobs is dead. Deal with reality, and shut up about some weird morbid fantasy imaginary leadership figure.

Maybe they should have put him in a mausoleum on the Apple Square in the new headquarters, so that people could line up to see him, in a glass box, folded hands clasping a shiny red wax Apple. Then they could ask him for advice.

I heard he was close with Disney. Maybe they could help.
 
Shut up.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 11:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I disagree. They're not willing to make the compromises you propose.

If you add a pound to the iPad 3, you've just made a shitty tablet. The thing could blow me as a feature and I still wouldn't buy it because my hand would cramp up from the weight before it was finished. Using a tablet isn't supposed to be exercise.

A three pound laptop is a svelte laptop. A three pound tablet is unusable.


Edit: my apologies. I'm in a bad mood and that came off as way more hostile than intended or deserved.
Modular. Did you forget already?

Look I know you use your pad everywhere. Do you take your charger with it everywhere? How about headphones?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Modular. Did you forget already?

Look I know you use your pad everywhere. Do you take your charger with it everywhere? How about headphones?
To be honest, my iPad is a sad, sad, lonely Apple product. What I actually use about 95% of the time is my phone.

The sacrifices I have to make in usability are far, far outweighed by the fact it's always in my pocket.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To be honest, my iPad is a sad, sad, lonely Apple product. What I actually use about 95% of the time is my phone.

The sacrifices I have to make in usability are far, far outweighed by the fact it's always in my pocket.
But the point is, it already has modules/accessories necessary for complete function, which don't come along for the ride. One of those modules could be a (larger) keyboard/screen/battery/cpu, without adding any more weight than the charger/data/earbuds/microphone that you already leave in a drawer when they're not needed. They add functionality without taking anything at all away from the portability of the device at those times when they're not in use.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
It's really, really time for this "What would Steve have done" bullshit to stop.

Seriously.

It's pathetic. Not just this thread.

Reality kills. Jobs is dead. Deal with reality, and shut up about some weird morbid fantasy imaginary leadership figure.
FTW

-t
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 02:54 PM
 
So what you're proposing is, essentially, a laptop running OS X with a touch-screen which, upon disattaching, becomes an iPad running iOS? And file syncing between both machines happens either via wireless or upon direct attachment?

Not a bad idea, as long as one believes that an iOS-style interface is not conducive to serious keyboard-and-file-based work. (Which it isn't, presently.) The ability to "share" components such as a battery, processor, storage, etc. raises interesting possibilities.

I'm still not sure it's much better than a separate iPad and a physical computer (desktop/laptop), though.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
shut up
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Shut up.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
shut up
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Shut up.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
shut up
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Shut up.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
shut up
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Shut up.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
shut up
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Shut up.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
shut up
     
Person Man
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest Ohio
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 03:39 PM
 
"I'm not sure what you're talking about so here's a picture of a dog on a turntable?"
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 03:52 PM
 
I keep my Apple-supplied headphones in my car. I also keep a cheap charger in my car.

I don't keep a keyboard, trackpad, hard drive, and monitor in my car.

P.S. Ironically, I do have a Bluetooth keyboard which I got as a gift. It's a combo keyboard case, but the typing feel sucks. I suppose it'd be better if the key action were better, but then it'd likely be a lot heavier too.
( Last edited by Eug; Jun 18, 2012 at 04:06 PM. )
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I keep my Apple-supplied headphones in my car. I also keep a cheap charger in my car.

I don't keep a keyboard, trackpad, hard drive, and monitor in my car.
So.... you're agreeing with me. True or false: the fact that you have certain "occasional enhancement modules" does not make the mobile device heavier, larger or less portable in any way. I think that we're both saying "true." The question of whether the "occasional enhancement" is merely a charger, vs let's just call it a "supercharger" (bonus horsepower, input and output) has absolutely no bearing on that question.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
So what you're proposing is, essentially, a laptop running OS X with a touch-screen which, upon disattaching, becomes an iPad running iOS? And file syncing between both machines happens either via wireless or upon direct attachment?
Short answer yes. Long answer... I think a clearly superior design would be to separate the OS choice from the hardware configuration choice, and just say that the user can flip between OS X and iOS any time they want, and they can flip between 'book mode and 'pad mode any time they want, and the expected case is as you describe, but any combination of transitions should be as seamless as possible.


Not a bad idea, as long as one believes that an iOS-style interface is not conducive to serious keyboard-and-file-based work. (Which it isn't, presently.) The ability to "share" components such as a battery, processor, storage, etc. raises interesting possibilities.
Yeah, like leveraging the "sharing" technology to cluster computing. If you're sharing between your own A5 and Intel cpus, why not share with other machines in your house too?

I wouldn't say one is "not conducive" or whatever, that's too heavy-handed for my taste. I think it's simply a feature to allow the user to decide what's "conducive" for their tastes, on a day-by-day or minute-by-minute basis.

I'm still not sure it's much better than a separate iPad and a physical computer (desktop/laptop), though.
Uh, it's the same way an iPhone is better than having both an iPod Touch and a dumb-phone. You don't want to burden the user with redundant components, especially for mobile devices.
( Last edited by Uncle Skeleton; Jun 18, 2012 at 05:20 PM. )
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2012, 04:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:17 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,