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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > GUI Customization > Playing with fire...theme developers MUST READ

Playing with fire...theme developers MUST READ (Page 2)
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Homer1946
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Feb 28, 2003, 11:59 PM
 
I have been following the progress of themes for OS X from afar since the OS came out. (I have been an Apple user since the early Apple IIe days, and got every new version of OS X, including the beta, as soon as it was released).

I have been very reluctant to install themes (or any third part hacks except those I REALLY wanted) for fear of losing stability. That is the biggest advantage X provides for me. Maybe I am getting old, I remember when I used to install every interface hack I could find.

After following the discussions, and especially this one, I decided that theming on OS X had gotten pretty advanced, most of the bugs had been worked out, and the theming community had settled on a few standards. So last night, late, I decided to try it out.

All I can say is....DAMN!!

Max, YOU THE MAN!!!!

And it was VERY easy.

I am using SmoothStripe and Theme Maker.

-R
     
sushiism
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Mar 2, 2003, 06:59 PM
 
i dont think they'll be bothered about themers changing the osx gui, its just people porting it to windows they will be annoyed about.
     
bOOzo
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Mar 3, 2003, 08:32 AM
 
Originally posted by Homer1946:
I have been following the progress of themes for OS X from afar since the OS came out. (I have been an Apple user since the early Apple IIe days, and got every new version of OS X, including the beta, as soon as it was released).

I have been very reluctant to install themes (or any third part hacks except those I REALLY wanted) for fear of losing stability. That is the biggest advantage X provides for me. Maybe I am getting old, I remember when I used to install every interface hack I could find.

After following the discussions, and especially this one, I decided that theming on OS X had gotten pretty advanced, most of the bugs had been worked out, and the theming community had settled on a few standards. So last night, late, I decided to try it out.

All I can say is....DAMN!!

Max, YOU THE MAN!!!!

And it was VERY easy.

I am using SmoothStripe and Theme Maker.

-R
I'm glad you like the theme
     
kmkkid
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Mar 3, 2003, 07:05 PM
 
Originally posted by sushiism:
i dont think they'll be bothered about themers changing the osx gui, its just people porting it to windows they will be annoyed about.
O the hypocrisy!

Chris
     
mrtew
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Mar 3, 2003, 09:08 PM
 
Originally posted by sushiism:
i dont think they'll be bothered about themers changing the osx gui, its just people porting it to windows they will be annoyed about.
Originally posted by kmkkid:
O the hypocrisy!
General Motors doesn't mind when people put new wheels on their Hummer trucks, but they go to court when other car companies copy the whole look and feel of the H2. Do you think that's hypocritical too? Think about what you are saying before you toss around those big words. Geez!

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
Homer1946
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Mar 4, 2003, 12:02 AM
 
Originally posted by bOOzo:
I'm glad you like the theme
Hehe

I have a work mac and a home mac. My home mac is non critical (I can use my work mac to duplicate all its functions) and so I am more cavalier about it.

I have learned this. When the theme management software advises you not to install a theme, you might aught to listen.

"Installing this theme may not be supported on your OS version and installing it may cause your computer to burst into flames and every molecule in the universe to expand outward at the speed of light."

<continue>

"Maybe I didn't make myself clear?"

<continue>

"Are you not paying attention?"

<continue>

"You have got to be kidding?"

<continue>

OK

KABOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yelling ensues

Man OS X sucks for letting me do this!!!!

-R
     
kmkkid
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Mar 4, 2003, 12:32 AM
 
Originally posted by mrtew:
General Motors doesn't mind when people put new wheels on their Hummer trucks, but they go to court when other car companies copy the whole look and feel of the H2. Do you think that's hypocritical too? Think about what you are saying before you toss around those big words. Geez!
Big words? hmmm...

Blah.

Go back to public school if you cant handle these 'big' words.

*shakes head* people these days.

By the way, using copywritten graphics on any platform is illegal - any way you look at it. So yes, it would be hypocritical if apple allowed it in mac themes, but not windows.

Chris
     
neoTony
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Mar 4, 2003, 09:03 AM
 
As someone who received a couple of cease & desists from Apple back in the Kaleidoscope days, I have to agree with bbxstudio on this. Don't fsck with Apple legal - they are big & scary and you will not win.

That, and there are rumors that the format is going to one of two ways in a future release - clean up and get back up to the functionality of the allegro theme engine... or be locked down so hard themers balls are going to hurt.

I'd recommend waiting for the cease & desists before acting - Apple has likely already made it's decisions regarding the widget/theme engine in X internally. Whether or not you choose to remove these themes makes no difference to the immediate future of the theme engine (it's not really a theme engine, is it? You can't honestly call it that after Kaleidoscope and the theme engine from 7.7+), but it may have some bearing on whether Apple "allows" you to continue distributing these themes.

Clarify your copyright information as suggested above, and stop worrying until there is real reason for concern.
     
bOOzo
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Mar 4, 2003, 02:26 PM
 
Originally posted by neoTony:

...[cut]...
Clarify your copyright information as suggested above, and stop worrying until there is real reason for concern.
Is pointed to me..? If so, I just have to mention that I now have no � Max Rudberg in Brushed or SmoothStripes. I never had it in SmoothStripes and in Brushed it now says "Original elements is copyright Max Rudberg, based on designs owned by Apple Computer". Other than that it just says "Made by Max Rudberg".
     
neoTony
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Mar 4, 2003, 09:52 PM
 
No Max, not directed at you mate - just a general "get your legal act together" to theme developers at large
     
mrtew
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Mar 4, 2003, 10:18 PM
 
Originally posted by kmkkid:
...By the way, using copywritten graphics on any platform is illegal - any way you look at it. So yes, it would be hypocritical if apple allowed it in mac themes, but not windows.

You are ridiculous! You're saying that using Apple graphics on an Apple computer is some sort of copywrite violation? I can understand how using Apple graphics on a Windows computer is illegal, but not on a Mac. I can use Aqua as it came with my TiBook, but if I tamper with it at all Apple can shut me down? That's crazy. And I certainly don't understand how you can say that if Apple agrees with me, and the poster above, that makes them hypocritical. (And no, it's not because I didn't learn the meaning of the word in public school :-) You think if Apple lets Mac users use Aqua for themes, they have to let everyone?

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
bbxstudio  (op)
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Mar 5, 2003, 02:19 AM
 
Originally posted by mrtew:
You are ridiculous! You're saying that using Apple graphics on an Apple computer is some sort of copywrite violation? I can understand how using Apple graphics on a Windows computer is illegal, but not on a Mac.
Actually, he is not ridiculous, he is correct (although I have no comment on the hypocrisy thing). The simple fact is that the alteration and redistribution of any of Apple's runtime graphics, regardless of what platform (Mac or PC) they're intended for, is indeed a violation of copyright - both technically and legally. It's 100% true. It's about the same thing as a freeware developer taking iTunes, altering it's code to some degree, and redistributing it with a different name - not exactly, but close enough.

I think everybody agrees that it would be heavy-handed and more than a little disappointing if Apple chose to come down of their own users (theme guys make great evangelists), but if we're going to argue about Apple's legal rights to do so, there's really nothing to argue about. Let's just hope Apple turns a blind eye to the violations of it's loyal user fan base.
( Last edited by bbxstudio; Mar 5, 2003 at 02:25 AM. )
     
kmkkid
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Mar 5, 2003, 07:43 PM
 
Originally posted by mrtew:
You are ridiculous! You're saying that using Apple graphics on an Apple computer is some sort of copywrite violation? I can understand how using Apple graphics on a Windows computer is illegal, but not on a Mac. I can use Aqua as it came with my TiBook, but if I tamper with it at all Apple can shut me down? That's crazy. And I certainly don't understand how you can say that if Apple agrees with me, and the poster above, that makes them hypocritical. (And no, it's not because I didn't learn the meaning of the word in public school :-) You think if Apple lets Mac users use Aqua for themes, they have to let everyone?
You just didnt understand. You can alter aqua all you like on your own machine (although technically this might be a violation of Apples OS X eula?) But distributing a theme with elements of aqua in it, in any platform, or even in real life, is illegal. The hypocritical part comes in where Apple allows said OS X themes, but wont allow windows themes with the same content... Maybe the better replacement for hypocritical would be 'totally unfair and biased'?

*shrug*

I'm not one to talk about copyright infringement. Believe me, I've broken it many times over. But I just dont see why you had to attack my points.. is it because I'm a windows user?



Chris
     
 
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