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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > The 10.5 Wishlist

The 10.5 Wishlist (Page 8)
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simonm
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Mar 14, 2007, 09:55 PM
 
Expanded Spotlight functionality!!!

Spotlight should be the new Finder!
     
ThrustinJ
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Mar 15, 2007, 02:10 PM
 
More configs on the iSight cameras (resolution, shape) and better editing/batch tools in photobooth or preview integration.

Make Apple-N = new folder again. Jesus.

Open source Safari

Spring load the Mac icon in the dock for the Macintosh HD

Multiple Docks or multiple levels. Tabbed docks? Scrolling docks?

Fix the printer browser like it used to be in 10.3
     
MindFad
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Mar 16, 2007, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThrustinJ View Post
Make Apple-N = new folder again. Jesus.
Oh, NO! NO, I've spent all these years getting used to it—they better not change it back.

Open source Safari
Isn't webkit already open, making most of what "Safari" is anyway open source?

Multiple Docks or multiple levels. Tabbed docks? Scrolling docks?
I, too, would like to see some innovation in the Dock. I think the boys at Apple can come up with some nifty stuff.
     
- - e r i k - -
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Mar 16, 2007, 12:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThrustinJ View Post
… better editing/batch tools in photobooth.
I'd like my funny-photos batched please!

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
- - e r i k - -
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Mar 16, 2007, 12:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThrustinJ View Post
Make Apple-N = new folder again. Jesus.
No.

Originally Posted by ThrustinJ View Post
Open source Safari
WTF?

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
post_break
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Mar 16, 2007, 12:56 AM
 
Can I have more than one dock. Im talking about a real dock. One that auto hides, magnifies, does the little genie thing. I want to have two that auto hide on the left and right and i want my main one on the bottom.

Why you might ask.

The two side docks would be for quickly getting to folders, files, ect. and the bottom for applications. Can I get the side docks to auto hide? Can I also get them to "remember" what windows associate with which dock. So if I open a window with my right dock it minimizes to that specific dock.

Thats all I ask, for now.
     
Chuckit
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Mar 16, 2007, 03:02 AM
 
No, you can't have two "real" docks.
Chuck
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CharlesS
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Mar 16, 2007, 04:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThrustinJ View Post
Make Apple-N = new folder again. Jesus.
They changed that to make the Finder more consistent with pretty much every other app on the system, so I doubt it's going to change back.

However, you are perfectly free to change the shortcut for New Folder yourself. You can do it in System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts.

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sushiism
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Mar 20, 2007, 08:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by post_break View Post
Can I have more than one dock. Im talking about a real dock. One that auto hides, magnifies, does the little genie thing. I want to have two that auto hide on the left and right and i want my main one on the bottom.

Why you might ask.

The two side docks would be for quickly getting to folders, files, ect. and the bottom for applications. Can I get the side docks to auto hide? Can I also get them to "remember" what windows associate with which dock. So if I open a window with my right dock it minimizes to that specific dock.

Thats all I ask, for now.
Overcomplicating, will cause much more hassle than benefit.

Simplicity is the way forward
     
lpkmckenna
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Mar 21, 2007, 10:52 PM
 
Some more wishes, from my nag column...

The WiFi menu-extra sucks. If I want to see if the internet is connected, I have to enable "show time connected," which can be 12 characters long. Too long. Just stick an "i" on top of the WiFi symbol when it's connected.

The volume menu-extra sucks. Let me adjust with the scroll wheel, please.

The time menu-extra sucks. Analog mode is a good idea, but the hands are off-center and too difficult to tell apart. Is it 9:30 or 6:45?

Dock badges suck. Too small.

People are asking for copying and pasting in the Finder. Not me. Just add a "move" command, which drops a Move sheet (like a Save sheet), so I can navigate to the new location for the file. Sweet, eh?
     
simonm
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Mar 22, 2007, 05:36 PM
 
Um, I have Copy and Paste in my Finder...
     
brokenjago
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Mar 22, 2007, 06:07 PM
 
The volume menu-extra sucks. Let me adjust with the scroll wheel, please.
I just tried that out. Works for me. (As in, I can adjust the volume with the scroll wheel)
Linkinus is king.
     
rubaiyat
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Mar 24, 2007, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThrustinJ[B
Make Apple-N = new folder again. Jesus.[/B]

You too? 7 years down the track and my muscle memory still kicks in.

Still if they took it away now I'd miss the iron boot of the NEXT programmers crushing down my Mac spirit. I've sort of grown a taste for the BSD testicle clamps and the lash of the UNIX whips across my quivering, friendly GUI buttocks drive me to ecstasy.
( Last edited by rubaiyat; Mar 24, 2007 at 10:12 AM. )
     
rubaiyat
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Mar 24, 2007, 10:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by simonm View Post
Um, I have Copy and Paste in my Finder...
Not in List view you don't, at least for Cut.
     
rubaiyat
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Mar 24, 2007, 10:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
They changed that to make the Finder more consistent with pretty much every other app on the system, so I doubt it's going to change back.
Umm that is incorrect. Cmd shift N is actually inconsistent with virtually ever application on OSX including some of Apple's own iLife series.

Also the Shift: add range to collection and cmd: add individually to collection is arse backwards in Finder. But then OSX was never meant to be Mac friendly.

However, you are perfectly free to change the shortcut for New Folder yourself. You can do it in System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts.
Why not change them all?

Consistency is overrated, just look at Windows.

Apple is.
     
Chuckit
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Mar 24, 2007, 07:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
Umm that is incorrect. Cmd shift N is actually inconsistent with virtually ever application on OSX including some of Apple's own iLife series.
I would be very interested to see some examples. The OS X guideline is basically that, in multiple-window applications, command-N opens a new window with whatever the application considers its default setup for a window (e.g., empty rich text document in TextEdit, new message in mail, new browser window in the Finder). The only apps in the iLife series that do not open a new window when you press command-N are single-window applications.

Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
Also the Shift: add range to collection and cmd: add individually to collection is arse backwards in Finder. But then OSX was never meant to be Mac friendly.
Uh…shift to add a range and command to add individual files works fine for me. Requesting clarification as to what the **** you are talking about.

Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
Why not change them all?

Consistency is overrated, just look at Windows.

Apple is.
Again, what are you talking about?
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kick52
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Mar 25, 2007, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
The WiFi menu-extra sucks. If I want to see if the internet is connected, I have to enable "show time connected," which can be 12 characters long. Too long. Just stick an "i" on top of the WiFi symbol when it's connected.
Huh?


connected


disconnected

which version of os x are you using?
     
ArcticBear
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Mar 25, 2007, 05:14 PM
 
Command-N vs. Shift-Command-N

Part 1
First, take a look at the Finder's Go menu:

Shift-Command-C -- opens a new window showing the local computer and networks
Shift-Command-H -- opens a new window showing the contents of the user's Home folder
Shift-Command-K -- opens a new window showing available network locations
Shift-Command-A -- opens a new window showing the contents of the Applications folder
Shift-Command-U -- opens a new window showing the contents of the Utilities folder
And more...**

Shift-Command-N -- should. do. what?


Open a new window to a predetermined folder, like every other Shift-Command-Letter in the Go menu.

But it doesn't. It creates a new folder. Command-N opens a new window.

From the internal consistency of the Finder's own keymappings, the present situation should be reversed. Shift-Command-N should open a new Finder window like every other Shift-Command-Letter. Command-N is then left to creating a new folder. The folder is the "document" of the Finder and stores not raw data so much as documents of other applications.


Part 2:
Command-N opens a new window in many other Apple applications. For some of these it is simply a new document in which is stored other data (TextEdit, Pages, Preview), or a new window in which is displayed other data but there is no need for a folder and therefore no conflict (Apple System Profiler, iChat, Console). These apps support the Cmd-N = New Folder in the Finder argument.

Other apps get more complicated and the new "document" is actually a project: like a window in which is stored data, but also data organized into folders (iCal, Keynote, Address Book). These last apps give more support to Apple's default Finder keymappings.

Other oddities:
  • Terminal Cmd-N creates a new Shell, while Shift-Cmd-N inserts a new Command. I'd say this Cmd-N is more like creating a "new document".
  • Disk Utility makes a new window with Cmd-N, yet curiously neglects to assign Shift-Cmd-N to a New Blank Image (and there's plenty of "room").
  • iTunes uses Cmd-N for a new playlist, and Shift-Cmd-N for new playlist from selection. I find this analagous to a Finder mapping of Cmd-N as new folder (it's likewise empty), and Shift-Cmd-N as a new window (i.e. opens up with something already in it). (As an aside, Option-Cmd-N gets assigned to New Smart Playlist, like New Smart Group in iCal.)
  • Font Book uses Cmd-N for new Collection (a folder of fonts?) and Shift-Cmd-N for a new Library (a folder of... collections?) Maybe we should leave this one till Apple fixes font management entirely...
  • Safari is an odd bird. Command-N gets a new browser window. Its analogue to the Finder's folders would be new Tabs, but Cmd-T fits that nicely. Shift-Cmd-N get set to making a new Bookmark Folder. But why not Cmd-N for new bookmark then? Because Cmd-D fits (? Cmd-B is not assigned?).

So with Safari we see it depends on the app. If Safari's Cmd-N/Shift-Cmd-N inconsistency is acceptable, why should the Finder's mappings be forced to correspond exactly to Apple's other apps, and yet only some of them? The answer: they shouldn't.

Again, the Finder doesn't make new data as its main activity. It organizes data created and collected into files elsewhere. The main "object" the Finder creates is the folder. That's why Command-N should generate a New Folder.


Part 3
Why would Apple do this? To force people to work in a different way in OS X. Not because it was better. Just to make it happen. Same philosophy behind the Dock. In place of the Dock, there are solutions out there that work better for some people. For me, DragThing and LiteSwitch X work perfectly to launch/manage my open applications. Some people like Quicksilver, etc. If I could remove the Dock and never see it again I would. But that's another story.


** Such as:
Shift-Command-G -- shows a deeper directory in the current window.
And I'm guessing that:
Shift-Command-I -- opens a new window showing the user's iDisk
Actually I don't know if this is true, as I didn't sign up for iDisk, but I bet it's right.

Bonus question: Why not have Shift-Command-D open the Documents folder? Certainly that's where Apple wants all user documents to be stored (besides music, movies, etc, which have their own special folders).
     
rubaiyat
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Mar 25, 2007, 08:09 PM
 
There can be nothing clearer than that cmd N is under the File menu.

It is saying this is a New File of whatever type the application creates.

In some cases it explicitly says what it is doing ie New Note (Stickies), Game (Chess), Chat (iChat), Album (iPhoto), Player (QuickTime), Blank Document (Word) mostly it is just implied and understood by the user.

The idea that you are creating a window, which is the graphical container of the document, is the developer thinking in programming terms not as a user.

In some cases you can create a 2nd window as an alternative view of the same document eg in Word, Photoshop and Illustrator, which is a New Window command under the Windows menu.

Finder creates Directories (Folders) and for a decade and a half that is what cmd N did on the Mac.

Like many things the NEXT programmers had to prove who was running the show now Steve was back. They had to alter the long standing convention, the same as they inverted the use of Shift and Command key selections in Finder, to usage that is the opposite of that inside most graphics programs. In my opinion simply to piss off incumbent Mac users.

Needless to say it played havoc with long term Mac users who don't even think about keyboard shortcuts, just do them.

I could put up with the changes if only they were consistent, after all that was one of the central pillars of Mac usage: if you didn't know it; you could guess it.

Instead we have got a shambles for shambles sake:

iTunes & iPhoto New Folder is opt shift cmd N.

Keynote shift cmd N creates a new slide.

FontBook New Library should logically be shift cmd N, instead it is opt cmd N.

Safari shift cmd N is Add Bookmark Folder, so why isnt cmd N a new bookmark?

Mail opt cmd N creates a New Viewer Window, whilst cmd N creates New mail.

Preview cmd N is bizarrely New from Clipboard and, as an aside, Import Image stays perpetually greyed out.

iCal cmd N creates a New Event whilst New Calendar, opt cmd N, is paired up with New Calendar Group, shift cmd N.

iSync uses cmd N as Add device

Disk Utility cmd N is a useless New window. I would have thought New Image would have made more sense.

FileMaker cmd N is New Record under the Records menu, when it should have been New database under File.

I could go on. If you would like a full schedule of all the Apple applications plus the major Office and DTP apps I can provide it.

Suffice it to say the NEXT programmers were mentally unsuited to program for the Mac. For people up to their elbows in Terminal & UNIX to presume to tell The GUI community how to suck eggs is absurd.

We have had a schemozzle of half hearted concessions to Windows, half baked GUI, reinventions of the wheel (with more sides added - why stick at one?), change for no sake and This Season's Eyecandy layered over Last Season's.

It isn't going to happen but my earnest wish is that Leopard sees a return to the Empowerment of the User as the core of computing design.

Consistency, predictability and transparency used to be the birthright of the Mac User.

"No I don't want you taking my rights away! I haven't stopped using them"

What perfectly expresses how badly things have gone wrong, is the muddled thinking of the OSX GUI guidelines. Not that Apple seems to follow them anyway.
( Last edited by rubaiyat; Mar 25, 2007 at 08:46 PM. )
     
lpkmckenna
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Mar 25, 2007, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by brokenjago View Post
I just tried that out. Works for me. (As in, I can adjust the volume with the scroll wheel)
So it does. I don't use a mouse, I use the two-finger scrolling pad. It doesn't register.
Originally Posted by kick52 View Post
Huh?


connected


disconnected

which version of os x are you using?
Uh, that just means you're connected to the network. If the network isn't on the internet, there's no indication of that.
     
Mac User #001
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Mar 30, 2007, 10:16 PM
 
I can't think of much right now, but I would like the Airport to also say how good the internet you're connected to is. A maximize button in applications (Like Windows) would be nice also.

More to be added when and if I think of anything. I still don't know every corner of the operating system, and I'm certainly not qualified to be picking it apart.
     
CharlesS
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Mar 31, 2007, 12:55 AM
 
Go boot into OS 9. Go ahead and do it. I'll wait.

Did it? Good.

Now: launch any application, any type at all, that sorts a list of items in a table view like the Finder's list view does. Click an item. Now click another item with the shift key down. See what happens.

You can try it with a plethora of other UI elements as well - for example, text widgets. Or try a hex editor or pretty much anything that's not the Finder. The shift key always selects the range in between where you clicked and where the selection was.

In OS 9.

Now: while you're still booted in OS 9, launch any browser-type application. Go ahead and do it, I'll wait.

Launched? Good.

Now: Hit Command-N and see what happens.

See? These behaviors have been standard pretty much everywhere but the Finder since God knows how long in the Mac UI. I'd bet you the OS 8 HIG even specify that as the standard behavior.

The Finder has been doing those things back-assward for years. During the Classic days, it was one of the biggest embarrassments about the Mac's UI. The reason for this is because of legacy issues - the Finder was coded that way before anyone had settled on the standard ways these things should work. OS X simply fixed the non-standard behavior, and made the Finder work like every other app on the system. Just because you think consistency is "overrated" doesn't mean the rest of us feel the same way.

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Eug
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Apr 5, 2007, 07:25 AM
 
I would like to see Leopard's BootCamp support 3 partitions per drive for either:

1) 3 bootable partitions

or

2) 2 bootable partitions and a data drive.

Right now BootCamp only supports 2 bootable partitions with no data drive. This is very restrictive for us iMac, Mac mini, and laptop users.
     
Sherman Homan
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Apr 5, 2007, 08:35 AM
 
I think it is interesting that this thread was started a year and a half ago (Sept 2005). Most of the posts then and now focus on frustration with the Finder.
FTFF!
     
sushiism
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Apr 8, 2007, 06:44 AM
 
Can't you change the finder keybindings in system prefs>keyboard
     
inkhead
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Apr 8, 2007, 07:12 AM
 
The finder is disgusting, especially networking. I can mount a remote volume in the terminal and browse it without delay but in the finder, it beachballs.

Part of this has to do with Apple's poor VM handling. Which actually has been mostly fixed in Leopard, although currently the finder sucks from the stuff I've seen.
     
kick52
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Apr 8, 2007, 03:21 PM
 
Settings to auto-mount network volumes
This would be cool if say, you always need access to a drive over the net, but you move between wi-fi hotspots etc.

It would be handy to have when you take your lappy home from work.
     
selowitch
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Apr 8, 2007, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead View Post
The finder is disgusting, especially networking. I can mount a remote volume in the terminal and browse it without delay but in the finder, it beachballs.

Part of this has to do with Apple's poor VM handling. Which actually has been mostly fixed in Leopard, although currently the finder sucks from the stuff I've seen.
I have partly remedied this by using an AppleScript:
-- change the following variables only, leaving Main Code alone

set username to "myusername"
set pword to "mypassword"
set address to "myip"
set drive to "myvolume"

-- Main Code

tell application "Finder"
if not (exists disk drive) then
mount volume "afp://" & username & ":" & pword & "@" & address & "/" & drive & "/"
end if
end tell
I'm sure one could also use an AppleScript to trigger the equivalent Terminal commands via diskutil, but I'm too lazy to come up with that. :-)
     
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Apr 12, 2007, 09:45 PM
 

I'm a bird. I am the 1% (of pets).
     
CharlesS
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Apr 13, 2007, 06:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
And I have not responded yet to your other posting on selections because it is time consuming, even though I have gathered extensive details for that as well.
Okay, here we go regarding shift-key selections. First of all, I don't have a lot of OS 9 applications still lying around, but I have a few, and here are the results for the ones I do have that allow list selections:

ResEdit: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

Eudora 5.1 (pre-OS X): Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

Outlook Express: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

Resorcerer Demo: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

MT-NewsWatcher: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

CodeWarrior 4.0: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

StuffIt Deluxe 5.5: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

ResCompare: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

I can't get Excel 98 to launch anymore for some reason, but I'm pretty sure it was Shift key to select a range, Command key to do individual selection

File Sharing control panel: Command-click doesn't work for some reason, but Shift-click selects a range

QuickTime Settings control panel: Command-click doesn't work for some reason, but Shift-click selects a range

Internet Explorer 4.5: Shift key selects range, Command key does individual selection

TomeViewer: Command-click and shift-click do the same thing, no apparent way to select a range. Verdict: TomeViewer is messed up.

Finder: Command-click and shift-click do the same thing, no apparent way to select a range. Verdict: Finder is messed up.

I'm pretty sure that the standard table-view widget for OS 9 worked with the shift-key selecting a range.

Now for the part you're waiting for. Why do all these applications work this way? The answer lies in the old Apple Human Interface Guidelines, from the classic Mac OS, courtesy of the Wayback machine. According to the PDF version, this copy of the HI Guidelines was copyrighted 1995, so that would be somewhere back in the System 7 era.

Here's what the old Apple HI Guidlines say about shift-click:
Changing a Selection With Shift-Click

A user can extend a selection by holding down the Shift key and clicking the mouse button. This action is called Shift-clicking. Exactly what happens next depends on the context.
In text or an array, the result of the Shift-click is always the selection of a range. The position where the button is clicked becomes the new endpoint of the range. If the user Shift-clicks within the current range, the new range will be smaller than the old range. Usually, if the user then Shift-clicks in another location, the additional data is included in the selection. In arrays, however, a different paradigm can be implemented in which the selection always moves from the current cell to wherever the user Shift-clicks, changing rather than extending the selection. This model works only in applications such as arrays, where the current cell is highlighted and the user can always see the active cell. In this case, the user always knows the fixed point from which the selection will start.
Now, I know you're going to bring up some examples of your own, and I know that they're going to be graphics applications. Here's what the same old HI Guidelines say about that:

In graphics applications, objects aren't usually considered to be in any particular sequence. A selection is extended by adding objects to it, and the added objects do not have to be adjacent to the objects already selected. The user can add either an individual object or a range of objects to the selection by holding down the Shift key before making the additional selection (Shift-click). When the user does this, the objects between the current selection and the new object are not automatically included in the selection. This kind of selection is called discontinuous selection. If the user holds down the
Shift key and selects one or more objects that are already highlighted,
the objects are removed from the selection or are deselected. For more information about discontinuous selections, see Inside Macintosh: Text.
And, here's what it says about command-click:

Changing a Selection With Command-Click

In the case of graphics, all selections are discontinuous selections because graphic objects are discrete. This is not the case with arrays and text, in which an extended selection made by a Shift-click always includes everything between the old anchor point and the new active end. In arrays and text, discontinuous selections are made by clicking while holding down the Command key.

To make a discontinuous selection in a text or array application, the user selects the first piece in the usual way and holds down the Command key while selecting the remaining pieces. Each piece is selected in the same way as if it were the whole selection, but because the Command key is held down, the new pieces are added to the existing selection instead of replacing it. If one of the pieces selected with Command-click is already within an existing
part of the selection, then instead of being added to the selection, it's removed from the selection.
So, as we can clearly see, the OS 9 Finder was clearly not only at odds with standard practice, but was flagrantly in violation of the HI Guidelines of the classic Mac OS. I hope that this should close the discussion on shift-click vs. command-click.

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B Gallagher
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Apr 14, 2007, 03:06 PM
 
Just a random idea I had last night - I've love to see different 'modes' set for the computer. Have an icon up in the top right which lets you choose between "day" and "night" for example, and when I click on "night" from "day", my screen dims to the specified amount, energy saving settings change, alert sounds and soforth are muted, all fully customisable of course. Then, I click on "day" in the morning, and my screen comes back to full brightness (or whatever I have it set at), alert sounds un-mute, etc.

Just a random thought.
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CharlesS
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Apr 14, 2007, 03:48 PM
 
Okay, as promised, here's my not-so-quick reply to this.

Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
There can be nothing clearer than that cmd N is under the File menu.

It is saying this is a New File of whatever type the application creates.

In some cases it explicitly says what it is doing ie New Note (Stickies), Game (Chess), Chat (iChat), Album (iPhoto), Player (QuickTime), Blank Document (Word) mostly it is just implied and understood by the user.

The idea that you are creating a window, which is the graphical container of the document, is the developer thinking in programming terms not as a user.
Actually, I would say this is backwards. The basic file/object of the application is an implementation detail, in the back end. What the user sees is a window, and if you ask most novice users, that is what they will associate with Command-N, especially in browser-type applications such as Safari which have no tangible file type.

In addition, Chuckit brought up an excellent point in the other thread - Command-N rarely ever makes anything tangible in any app. It typically brings up a new, blank window that you can enter data into, which doesn't create a tangible file until you choose Save.

In some cases you can create a 2nd window as an alternative view of the same document eg in Word, Photoshop and Illustrator, which is a New Window command under the Windows menu.
This is a violation of the classic Mac OS HI Guidelines (link). It introduces confusion as to which window should be closed to close the document. In addition, I had no idea that command was in there after 20 years of using Macs, so that should tell you something about the discoverability of unique commands that you stick in the Window menu.

Finder creates Directories (Folders) and for a decade and a half that is what cmd N did on the Mac.
The Finder is primarily a file browser. I'm willing to guess that you use it to browse to a file far more often than you create new folders. A folder is not, and never has been, the basic file/object for the Finder. Sure, the menu item was that way for a decade and a half, but hey, the Quit menu item was also under the File menu for the same length of time. I think it's more important for Apple to be concerned with progress than with "We've Always Done It That Way" syndrome.

Like many things the NEXT programmers had to prove who was running the show now Steve was back. They had to alter the long standing convention, the same as they inverted the use of Shift and Command key selections in Finder, to usage that is the opposite of that inside most graphics programs. In my opinion simply to piss off incumbent Mac users.
I've taken care of this in my previous post.

Needless to say it played havoc with long term Mac users who don't even think about keyboard shortcuts, just do them.
I think most Mac users under the age of 80 should have adapted by now. Plus, Apple is going after switchers from other platforms, and frankly, the concepts of what Command-N and shift-click do are universal, not Mac-specific, so it's better for everyone if the behavior is consistent.

I could put up with the changes if only they were consistent, after all that was one of the central pillars of Mac usage: if you didn't know it; you could guess it.
How on earth would I be supposed to guess that Command-N would create a folder instead of a new browser window? That shift-click would do the opposite thing in the Finder than in every other app that implemented a list view? To someone who's never used a Mac before, the OS X Finder's shortcuts are more guessable.

iTunes & iPhoto New Folder is opt shift cmd N.
Apple's guidelines for creating keyboard shortcuts is here. Basically the gist of it is, you use the Command key for the main command, you use Command-Shift for a command that complements the main command, and you use Command-Option for less common but still related command.

So in iTunes, you'd have:

⌘N = new album (frankly, I think this should make a new window, but hey)

⌘⇧N = new album from selection (secondary, complements New Album)

⌘⌥N = new folder (less commonly used, but related, command - I don't think I've ever made a new folder in iTunes, so it definitely fits this definition for me).

It definitely has its own type of logic, no? Now, that was according to the OS X guidelines. What do the OS 9 guidelines say about when to use shift, option, etc.? All I could find was this and this. A nice excerpt:

Originally Posted by Classic Mac OS Guidelines
In some applications, the Command key is used with other keys to provide special functions or shortcuts. For example, pressing Command-Shift-3 on a Macintosh saves a snapshot of the current screen on disk. The Command key can also be used in conjunction with the mouse to modify the effect of a click or drag.
Basically, the classic guideline is "do whatever the hell you want." In practice, I generally found that wherever OS X uses cmd-shift or cmd-option for something, in OS 9 there would be no shortcut at all. To do a Save As, you usually had to get the mouse and go to the menu bar. The guidelines even say to do this. For example, here:
Use keyboard equivalents on only the most often used items and follow the guidelines in the section "Keyboard Equivalents" on page 100 for assigning them.
and here:

Don't assign keyboard equivalents for infrequently used menu commands. Add keyboard equivalents only for the commands your users employ most frequently.
Given this and the fact that OS 9 had no real guidelines that I can find as to what you are supposed to do with the Shift and Option keys, you can go ahead and list shortcut commands you don't like, but you will have a hard time showing how it's any worse than OS 9.

On with the rest of your complaints:

Keynote shift cmd N creates a new slide.
⌘N = New document.

⌘⇧N = New slide.

I fail to see the problem here.

FontBook New Library should logically be shift cmd N, instead it is opt cmd N.
I'll give you this one. That should be ⌘⇧N. Apparently the designers of Font Book used the OS 9 school of thought when assigning this shortcut.

Safari shift cmd N is Add Bookmark Folder, so why isnt cmd N a new bookmark?
Command-D seems to be some sort of standard for Add Bookmark. Firefox and IE both seem to do it. My guess is that Add Bookmark is accessed frequently enough that they wanted to give it a primary shortcut. Why Add Bookmark Folder isn't Command-Shift-D, I dunno.

Mail opt cmd N creates a New Viewer Window, whilst cmd N creates New mail.
It's a judgment call whether you think Mail's primary document should be a message or a viewer window. The designers of Mail have apparently decided that it should be a new message, and frankly, I agree. New Viewer Window should be Command-Shift-N, though.

Preview cmd N is bizarrely New from Clipboard and, as an aside, Import Image stays perpetually greyed out.
Hey, I use that Command-N for New from Clipboard all the time. What would you suggest New Document do in Preview?

Oh, and Import Image isn't greyed out on my machine. Perhaps you don't have any image capture devices connected to your Mac?

iCal cmd N creates a New Event whilst New Calendar, opt cmd N, is paired up with New Calendar Group, shift cmd N.
Both of those options are rather infrequently used, so it's debatable, but yeah, I could see swapping New Calendar and New Calendar Group.

Neither of those commands would have had any shortcut under OS 9.

iSync uses cmd N as Add device
What else could it do?

Disk Utility cmd N is a useless New window. I would have thought New Image would have made more sense.
New Image would have made more sense if Disk Utility were primarily a disk-image making app. However, it is not - it is a disk utility, and its primary functions are initializing, scanning, and repairing disks, with the disk image capability added on after the fact. And the Command-N for "New Window" is far from useless - if you have a very long operation going on, such as imaging a multi-GB drive, and you want to do something else with the app, it's necessary. One thing I will grant is that I think it made more sense to have the disk image functionality in Disk Copy, where it would be the primary purpose of the app and Command-N would make sense, although the app needed a rename. I really don't know why it's in Disk Utility now. But the keyboard shortcut as it stands makes sense.

FileMaker cmd N is New Record under the Records menu, when it should have been New database under File.
I don't have FileMaker, so I can't comment on this one.

Suffice it to say the NEXT programmers were mentally unsuited to program for the Mac. For people up to their elbows in Terminal & UNIX to presume to tell The GUI community how to suck eggs is absurd.
Personal attacks against the developers is unnecessary. NeXT was a GUI operating system, just like Mac OS X is, and it wasn't half bad at all. Plus, it's not as if the developers who worked on OS 9 just disappeared when it was discontinued - they got moved over to OS X development. I think I've shown that at least in some areas, the OS X developers understand certain GUI issues better than you do.

We have had a schemozzle of half hearted concessions to Windows, half baked GUI, reinventions of the wheel (with more sides added - why stick at one?), change for no sake and This Season's Eyecandy layered over Last Season's.

It isn't going to happen but my earnest wish is that Leopard sees a return to the Empowerment of the User as the core of computing design.

Consistency, predictability and transparency used to be the birthright of the Mac User.

"No I don't want you taking my rights away! I haven't stopped using them"

What perfectly expresses how badly things have gone wrong, is the muddled thinking of the OSX GUI guidelines. Not that Apple seems to follow them anyway.
This is rather content-free, and warrants no response. Is Apple perfect? No. Is OS X perfect? No. Was OS 9 any better? Hardly.

Taking your rights away?
( Last edited by CharlesS; Apr 14, 2007 at 03:58 PM. )

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Apr 15, 2007, 02:39 PM
 
Another random and small thing; I'd like internet shortcuts in Finder, on the Desktop, in the Dock, and anywhere else, to show the icon of the web page, not the @ or the springy @ as in the case of the Dock.
     
chris v
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Apr 17, 2007, 05:31 PM
 
Bring back the Angry Duck!

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Apr 17, 2007, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by simonm View Post
Expanded Spotlight functionality!!!

Spotlight should be the new Finder!
Please GOD no!!!!!!

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Apr 20, 2007, 12:41 AM
 
Linux (specifically Ubuntu and Debian) support in Boot Camp

The new Ubuntu 7.04 is awesome and I would like it on my MacBook, not this Dell I'm typing on. And since Linux support would be added, add support for...

ext3 and ext2 disk formats

so you can share your files inbetween both OSes
( Last edited by C.A.T.S. CEO; Apr 20, 2007 at 11:52 PM. )
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Apr 20, 2007, 01:49 AM
 
I love Linux. It makes me feel better about the times I have to use Windows.
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Apr 21, 2007, 04:04 AM
 
I just want a new Spotlight and Finder. And definitely a new UI.
It would also be good if their top secret features are really good...
     
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Apr 21, 2007, 04:23 PM
 
Linux support would be really nice, but won't happen.

Write support for NTFS would be a major plus.

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hldan
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Apr 21, 2007, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO View Post
Linux (specifically Ubuntu and Debian) support in Boot Camp

The new Ubuntu 7.04 is awesome and I would like it on my MacBook, not this Dell I'm typing on. And since Linux support would be added, add support for...

ext3 and ext2 disk formats

so you can share your files inbetween both OSes

Why the need for support for so many formats? Is there something wrong with the Mac OS? Seems like everyone wants support for Vista, XP, Linux and whatever else that does not make the Mac a "Mac".
Don't misundertand me, a multi-format computer is supreme but some of you guys here don't need a Mac, you need the others.
     
CharlesS
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Apr 22, 2007, 05:24 AM
 
Well, when a Linux user gives you a disk with some files on it, it's nice not to have to boot into Linux to read those files.

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Apr 22, 2007, 05:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Linux support would be really nice, but won't happen.

Write support for NTFS would be a major plus.
Well write support is available if you use Google's MacFUSE Software. But I agree that built-in support would be nice.
     
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Apr 23, 2007, 12:18 AM
 
I may have said this before but write support for NTFS is very unlikely: Micorsoft have never opened up this format for others to see, and NTFS has had problems since inception with a single bad write taking out the whole drive (NTFS was supposed to be replaced with WinFS in Vista...). From what I hear (and this is just word of mouth) the code behind NTFS is so fugly that MS engineers are surprized it works at all. It would be nice to have, but Apple wouldn't want to put themselves at risk of destroying users data in that fashion.

Third party software can of course cover for this: but then it's between you, the third party, and the god of your choice.

Now, why not have all the other OS'es understand HFS+ Extended, huh? Sorry, had to do it...
     
dagamer34
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Apr 23, 2007, 01:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by dimmer View Post
I may have said this before but write support for NTFS is very unlikely: Micorsoft have never opened up this format for others to see, and NTFS has had problems since inception with a single bad write taking out the whole drive (NTFS was supposed to be replaced with WinFS in Vista...). From what I hear (and this is just word of mouth) the code behind NTFS is so fugly that MS engineers are surprized it works at all. It would be nice to have, but Apple wouldn't want to put themselves at risk of destroying users data in that fashion.

Third party software can of course cover for this: but then it's between you, the third party, and the god of your choice.

Now, why not have all the other OS'es understand HFS+ Extended, huh? Sorry, had to do it...
NTFS was never going to be replaced. WinFS was a SQL database that used NTFS as a storage layer. Think of it like Spotlight using HFS+ to store data. Spotlight doesn't REPLACE HFS+, it merely sits on top of it when looking for files.

Read/write support to an NTFS partition is probably unlikely from Apple simply because Microsoft would be all over that lawsuit so quickly, it's not even funny. While some people might not like it, a data partition would work pretty well if it were supported.
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CharlesS
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Apr 23, 2007, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post
Read/write support to an NTFS partition is probably unlikely from Apple simply because Microsoft would be all over that lawsuit so quickly, it's not even funny.
Unless Apple has access to Microsoft's patents on the format due to that agreement they made back in the late 90s (when MS bought all that Apple stock).

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Apr 24, 2007, 05:29 PM
 
Yea... I'm always bringing up the small, meaningless, ideas, but in Finder, when it shows a preview for a .gif picture, it doesn't show the picture animated, just the first picture of the series. Fix that.
     
chrissss
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Apr 25, 2007, 04:19 AM
 
Just get rid of the spinning beach ball and i will be happy
     
WJMoore
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Apr 25, 2007, 06:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by chrissss View Post
Just get rid of the spinning beach ball and i will be happy
Like do what XP does and just let the app in question stop responding entirely, including redraws and put (Not Responding) in the title bar... yep that sounds better
     
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Apr 25, 2007, 08:04 AM
 
How about:

1) A filesystem with decent performance, case-sensitivity and so forth.
2) Making Disk Utility able to dynamically resize volumes, graphically (and without having to boot off a different disk)
3) Tabbed terminal
4) A better QuickTime Player (DivX and XVid support by default, VLC-like interface, etc.)
     
Naplander
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Apr 25, 2007, 09:59 AM
 
A better QuickTime Player (DivX and XVid support by default, VLC-like interface, etc.)
Amen to that!
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