[elfer]

Hi,

I am really jonesing to get my 1Gig PB replaced.
What is the consensus on the next "step" processor for the PB? Will there be a G4 2Gig processor? Does it even exist, or did apple go to the G5 starting with the 2Gig speeds? If that is true, would that indicate that 1.67 is the "final" G4?

Any insights or speculations on the G4's future inside the PB would be appreciated

elfer

[SEkker]

My vote is that the next laptop will have at least one processor in it.

[pat++]

I think a G5 won't find its way in a PowerBook for a while. But I would love to see the new moto G4 1.8/2.0ghz with 1mb of L2 cache and 200mhz front side bus (I think it's called 7448). Would be a nice and hopefully quiet replacement for the current G4.

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit...PC7448FACT.pdf

[garypix]

Originally Posted by elfer

Hi,

I am really jonesing to get my 1Gig PB replaced.
What is the consensus on the next "step" processor for the PB? Will there be a G4 2Gig processor? Does it even exist, or did apple go to the G5 starting with the 2Gig speeds? If that is true, would that indicate that 1.67 is the "final" G4?

Any insights or speculations on the G4's future inside the PB would be appreciated

elfer

A Cell Processor would be nice!

[d.fine]

Originally Posted by SEkker

My vote is that the next laptop will have at least one processor in it.

I also think we'll see more of the G4 in the PB line, going to 2GHz or more. Unless Apple comes up with a creative solution and fits a G5 in an PB. We'll see, you never know with Apple

[elfer]

Originally Posted by d.fine

I also think we'll see more of the G4 in the PB line, going to 2GHz or more. Unless Apple comes up with a creative solution and fits a G5 in an PB. We'll see, you never know with Apple

I'd be fine with that. I 2 Gig G4 would certainly get me to buy a new PB!

elfer

[garypix]

Originally Posted by elfer

I'd be fine with that. I 2 Gig G4 would certainly get me to buy a new PB!

elfer

You are easily satified..
2Ghz G4 is not much faster than 1.67GHz which is out now..
Why not just get the 1.67 now and enjoy it or wait for the g5 pb?

...my $.02

[elfer]

Originally Posted by garypix

You are easily satified..
2Ghz G4 is not much faster than 1.67GHz which is out now..
Why not just get the 1.67 now and enjoy it or wait for the g5 pb?

...my $.02

simple. because I have a 1 Gig G4 right now. I generally do not want to "upgrade" until I can double my gigs...and I don't have any confidence that a G5 is even on the horizon...


elfer

[garypix]

Originally Posted by elfer

simple. because I have a 1 Gig G4 right now. I generally do not want to "upgrade" until I can double my gigs...and I don't have any confidence that a G5 is even on the horizon...


elfer

gotcha! let's hope the 2ghz comes out soon..

[Filburt]

For PowerBook, a 2 GHz G4 would represent the most significant CPU upgrade in a long time. Not because its clock runs 20% faster (which isn't a big deal), but other benefits this new G4 processor brings (7448): much lower power consumption, larger L2 cache (1 MB), and faster FSB (200 MHz, which still stinks, but better than 167 MHz).

Then again, the next PowerBook may get either dual-core G4 or yet to be announced mobile G5. Who knows.

[elfer]

Originally Posted by Filburt

For PowerBook, a 2 GHz G4 would represent the most significant CPU upgrade in a long time. Not because its clock runs 20% faster (which isn't a big deal), but other benefits this new G4 processor brings (7448): much lower power consumption, larger L2 cache (1 MB), and faster FSB (200 MHz, which still stinks, but better than 167 MHz).

Then again, the next PowerBook may get either dual-core G4 or yet to be announced mobile G5. Who knows.

good and interesting info in this post. thank you. what exactly does "dual core" mean?

thanks

elfer

[MORT A POTTY]

it won't get a dual core processor this year, quote me on this.

the dual-core G4 will be a SUBSTANTIAL redesign of the G4 including many things. most notably are the 667Mhz bus and of course, dual-core.

and dual core means it's essentially two processor cores on one chip.

[elfer]

Originally Posted by MORT A POTTY

it won't get a dual core processor this year, quote me on this.

the dual-core G4 will be a SUBSTANTIAL redesign of the G4 including many things. most notably are the 667Mhz bus and of course, dual-core.

and dual core means it's essentially two processor cores on one chip.

thank you. do you think a 2 gig G4 is still a possibility for the PB line?

elfer

[pat++]

Originally Posted by elfer

thank you. do you think a 2 gig G4 is still a possibility for the PB line?

elfer

1.8/2gig 7448 is the most likely. Maybe 1.67/1.8 for low end/high end PB.
I really doubt they will go beyond 1.67 with a 7447... (hopefully not)

[MORT A POTTY]

2Ghz will DEFINITELY happen with the 7448. the 7448 will be (among other things) a die shrink from 130nm to 90nm.

I'd say 2.5Ghz would be possible within two years easy.

[SEkker]

I'm glad people are taking the non-G5 CPUs seriously now on this forum.

I'd prefer a dual-core 1.5 GHz G4 over a 2 GHz single CPU model.

I fear Apple will wait to release dual core processors in the powerbooks until AFTER they are ready with the dual-core G5 CPUs. At the current rate, we may be in for another 12-18 month wait (or even longer) for the next real upgrade to the G4 CPUs in our laptops. In many ways, the mac mini spoke the loudest - no new CPUs for awhile, or the plethora of G4 machines sold in the first half of 2005 would be instantly obsolete.

[MORT A POTTY]

well no, but dual core G4s are at least a year away anyhow, so that's a moot point. dual core G5s should be here before then... they're the next revision of the PPC 970. the GX is the single core variant of the MP.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by garypix

A Cell Processor would be nice!

Agreed.

[skelotar]

wow... someone deleted my post..

I still think the next processor will run on wood chips. j/k

but

I don't think a cell processor alone would really be suitable for this type of application. Maybe 2 cells for graphics and one dual-core G4.

Since cell processors have such low voltage requirements, why not put in 4 of 'em?

[belldandy]

If Apple upgrades the powerbook within the fall, it will be 250Mhz Bump => 1.8 G4
If Apple upgrades the powerbook at MacWorld 06, it will be a Dual Core G4 => 1.8 G4 Dual Core

If Apple upgrades the powerbook at WWDC 06, it will be a G5 2Ghz Low Voltage
If Apple upgrades the powerbook in Fall 06, it will be a G5 Dual Core 1.8 (PowerPC 970MP)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

If I get to put any processor in my powerbook, it will be 2 Dual Core 1.6Ghz PowerPC G5 with PowerStep that disables 3 of the cores when I am on battery =D

[MORT A POTTY]

it will not be a dual-core G5, or any variant of a G5.

go look at the heat and power requirements. right now, go.

then go look at the G4 power requirements. significantly lower. the next revision WILL use the 7448, as will the version after that I'd venture to guess... after that? possibly a dual-core G4, but they may put in a single-core variant of the same chip which will still have a TON of other benefits, but will require a redesign of the chipset... which will be needed by then anyway to adopt PCI-E graphics, SATA HDs, different pin configuration, etc.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by MORT A POTTY

well no, but dual core G4s are at least a year away anyhow, so that's a moot point.

Where did you get that from? I would say dual-core e600 would be in the Powerbook in the beginning of next year, if IBM does not come out with something appropriate and more compelling for the Apple notebooks. Here is why: original (as of last year) production schedule for the 7448 was 2H-05 and for the 8641D 1H-06. Now I remember having seen vendors (sorry, no link) of embedded systems using for some time already the 7448 chip. If this is an indication of how things go in Freescale, one would expect dual core systems (based on some variant of 8641D) by the end of this year, beginning of next year at the most. I am curious to see if IBM has an answer to that.

dual core G5s should be here before then... they're the next revision of the PPC 970. the GX is the single core variant of the MP.

And do you expect something like that in a Powerbook? Let me quote here what the leaked IBM document said about the 970MP:

The dual 64-bit core PowerPC970MPTM (970MP) is the next evolutionary step in the PowerPC 970 family of microprocessors. The higher frequency grade versions of the 970MP consume higher amounts of power than earlier IBM microprocessors do, and that can cause temperature issues. Each 970MP processor core contains a thermal diode used to monitor its operating temperature. The thermal diode must be monitored to ensure that the maximum operating temperature of the 970MP is not exceeded. These thermal diodes used by the microprocessors are unique to the PowerPC architecture and cannot be ‘read’ using standard thermal diode monitoring chips. This paper will discuss the characteristics of the diode and outline the structure of a thermal diode monitoring circuit used to monitor the temperature of the microprocessor’s cores.

This does not seem like a notebook chip, even in its single-core version.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by MORT A POTTY

it will not be a dual-core G5, or any variant of a G5.

go look at the heat and power requirements. right now, go.

OK, you made it clear .

[d.fine]

The G4 is here to stay for a little longer. The PB line will run on them fine for some time to come. I think 2GHz is not too much to ask from a G4, but a G5 in an PB is not for any time soon.
Could be a 1.8 / 2.0 lineup, but that's fine!

[asmujica]

It will be powered by steves reality distortion field and a hamster.

[Eug Wanker]

I'm still betting on a 1.6-1.8 GHz G5 derivative, but a 1.6-1.8 GHz G4 7448 is also a strong possibility.

I'd be surprised if the next PowerBook line brings us a 2 GHz chip of any sort. No dual core either.

[skelotar]

we as powerbook users, professional computer users, should demand and expect no less than a dual core g4 within this upcoming year.

2 Ghz Dual-Core Processor / Maybe a Quad-Core if possible.. c/ the next pb revision, I don't want to be outdated for at least 2 years..

[SEkker]

Originally Posted by skelotar

we as powerbook users, professional computer users, should demand and expect no less than a dual core g4 within this upcoming year.

2 Ghz Dual-Core Processor / Maybe a Quad-Core if possible.. c/ the next pb revision, I don't want to be outdated for at least 2 years..

If Apple is unwilling to make a dual-CPU Powerbook model, which 'only' requires an update to the current motherboard -- something possible but expensive but nevertheless possible within heat and current power requirements-- why would Apple feel compelled to go for a dual-core CPU for us?

I think the best thing that could happen is for the dual-core G5 chips to be ready when the Freescale G4 chips are shipping in quantity (something I've not heard at all; prototypes but not mass production) so that Apple can release an entire line of dual-core machines. The only reason I think this will happen is that it's already happening on Intel and AMD machines, and Intel has made public its BIG plans for the dual core mobile CPU.

Does anyone know whether the current OS will actually USE dual core CPUs effectively, or will it need a major rewrite?

[Eug Wanker]

Does anyone know whether the current OS will actually USE dual core CPUs effectively

Of course. Indeed, dual dual core (ie. quad) Power Macs should work just fine too in Tiger.



That doesn't mean I think we'll get dual core PowerBooks any time soon though.

[cgc]

I would put my money on a dual-core Freescale E600 (G4 pin-for-pin compatible)

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by cgc

I would put my money on a dual-core Freescale E600 (G4 pin-for-pin compatible)

There is no such thing as a dual core e600 that is pin compatible with the current G4. The dual core chips Freescale has been talking about has a built-in memory controller, among other things.

[cgc]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Of course. Indeed, dual dual core (ie. quad) Power Macs should work just fine too in Tiger.



That doesn't mean I think we'll get dual core PowerBooks any time soon though.

Could the CHUD tools 4-processor option be because we'll be getting the quad-core G5 rumored to be in the Nintendo Revolution? I understand the PS3 and XBox aren't G5 derivatives, but I have read numerous sites/rumors that state Ninteno'd CPU is a derivative of the G5. Possibility for PowerMacs?

[Eug Wanker]

There were also many rumours that the PS3 and Xbox CPUs were G5 derivatives, and we all know those rumours were completely wrong. The problem is that too many people who hear "64-bit" and "PowerPC" together automatically think "G5", but that's just incorrect.

I don't think a quad-core single CPU is very likely for a Mac. Furthermore we already know the dual core 970MP exists. (IBM has already confirmed it, albeit inadvertently.) The KISS principle would dictate that 4 cores in a Mac would simply be be two of those 970MP chips.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

While a processor update would be nice, I'd be happy with a minor G4 speedbump. I think updating the rather unimpressive screens and sticking a decent video card in the mid/low end models is the most important issue at the moment.

greg

[Eug Wanker]

While a processor update would be nice, I'd be happy with a minor G4 speedbump.

So, do you consider a G4 7448 a minor G4 speedbump? Just wondering. I think in some ways it is, but in some ways it's more than minor. A 1.8 GHz 7448 would be a significant upgrade because it gets a 200 MHz bus and because it has 1 MB L2 cache.

In some tests it'd actually be faster than a similarly clocked G5. OTOH, in certain tests, a G5 would be much faster.

I think updating the rather unimpressive screens and sticking a decent video card in the mid/low end models is the most important issue at the moment.

One of the big reasons for the screens in the machines now is because the OS is not resolution independent. OS X 10.4 is built best for a screen around 100 ppi, and hence that's what we have. I suspect OS X 10.5 is going to get resolution independence however.

As for the video cards, the mid-range is decent, but I agree the low end machine should get a bump.

[SEkker]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

While a processor update would be nice, I'd be happy with a minor G4 speedbump. I think updating the rather unimpressive screens and sticking a decent video card in the mid/low end models is the most important issue at the moment.

greg

I find this an interesting view. The last time Apple released powerbooks with just a speed bump in the CPU AND in the hard drives, everyone went crazy saying how terrible it was these were not PB G5s.

For me, the question is: what would Apple need to release for me to upgrade from my already 2 year old revA PB17? It may only be 1 GHz, but right now, its purring (not sure if Tiger's CAN purr...). I am amazed -- it definitely seems as quick or quicker as my dual 1 GHz G4 tower running Panther. And that machine runs fast 7200 rpm HDs.

Would another speed bump to 2 GHz for a G4 make me willing to fork over >$2k? I don't think so. I doubt even a 200 MHz bus machine would really be twice as fast as my 1GHz machine.

Would a dual core G4, yes. Because it would let me do things well above twice the speed of my current machine. Video editing would not be such a chore, etc.

I'm still making an occasional mac laptop purchase at work, replacing an older G3 model of some sort. But we're going to wait for the next generation machines with updated motherboards and the next real bump in processors before we invest in a series of machines like I did 2 years ago with Al PBs.

[Liquidity X]

A G5 PowerBook release date has been set. My buddy is an IT manager for a MAJOR corperation. Apple buckeled and told them the date because they buy so many Macs and where try to plan there budget for the next year or so I guess and apple wanted there liek 8000 PB a year sales. I have been trying to get the date from him but this kid is like honest abe lincon and I guess there is a SERIOUS NDA they had to sign so it might not happen. I have known him for 24 years now and have never once heard him lie so I trust him to the fullest. As I said he wouldn't tell me the date but he sounded like its a bit off still, but not as far as you would think. If I get any more info I'll let yah know.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Liquidity X

A G5 PowerBook release date has been set. My buddy is an IT manager for a MAJOR corperation. Apple buckeled and told them the date because they buy so many Macs and where try to plan there budget for the next year or so I guess and apple wanted there liek 8000 PB a year sales. I have been trying to get the date from him but this kid is like honest abe lincon and I guess there is a SERIOUS NDA they had to sign so it might not happen. I have known him for 24 years now and have never once heard him lie so I trust him to the fullest. As I said he wouldn't tell me the date but he sounded like its a bit off still, but not as far as you would think. If I get any more info I'll let yah know.

If true, then you've just got him fired then. Call me skeptical, even though I do believe the next CPU in the PowerBook will be a G5 variant.

[SEkker]

Maybe the next processor will be a Centrino...

[jamil5454]

With the way things are going with OS X, some day we won't even have CPUs. Everything will be calculated with ultra-powerful GPUs.

[MORT A POTTY]

Originally Posted by Pierre B.

Where did you get that from? I would say dual-core e600 would be in the Powerbook in the beginning of next year, if IBM does not come out with something appropriate and more compelling for the Apple notebooks. Here is why: original (as of last year) production schedule for the 7448 was 2H-05 and for the 8641D 1H-06. Now I remember having seen vendors (sorry, no link) of embedded systems using for some time already the 7448 chip. If this is an indication of how things go in Freescale, one would expect dual core systems (based on some variant of 8641D) by the end of this year, beginning of next year at the most. I am curious to see if IBM has an answer to that.



And do you expect something like that in a Powerbook? Let me quote here what the leaked IBM document said about the 970MP:


This does not seem like a notebook chip, even in its single-core version.

first the G4: a year from now would still put it in 1H06, so the dates match up.

now, the G5. that's exactly what I'm saying. the MP and/or the GX wouldn't be enough of a step in the power requirements to get it in a laptop. which is exactly why I've been sticking to the G4 as the future of the PowerBook and iBook lines instead of jumping ship to the G5 PowerBook Now plzthx crowd. it's a bad idea. it would be WAY too hot and you'd have ten minute battery life. the G4s on the other hand... could have single core iBooks and dual core PowerBooks with stuff to help separate the two lines. G4 dual-core CPUs could definitely work in a PowerBook, even with their extra power requirements. I would suggest rereading my previous statements.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by MORT A POTTY

I would suggest rereading my previous statements.

I already did. Perhaps you missed my last post:

Originally Posted by Pierre B.

Originally Posted by MORT A POTTY

it will not be a dual-core G5, or any variant of a G5.

go look at the heat and power requirements. right now, go.

OK, you made it clear .

[Lesterm10]

I'm sorry but there will be no PB G5's for a while, maybe even until next summer, with that said, and the recent talks with Intel to become their main supplier of processors, I would think if the talks and negotiatios went through, the PB by the end of this year or start of next year would include a DUAL CORE G4, since Intel has already a dual core processor on their P4 processors. How great would that be to have a dual core processor G4 over a single, heat prone G5?

[threestain]

What would be the point of going over to Intel though, realistically? Would it give Apple anything? No, as they would just become one of many many many different manufacturers. With the G5, they not only have wonderful industrial design they have a completely different architecture, which people have only just gotten a handle on. Why would they turn round and say:

New G6, actually a P4?

[MORT A POTTY]

Originally Posted by Lesterm10

I'm sorry but there will be no PB G5's for a while, maybe even until next summer, with that said, and the recent talks with Intel to become their main supplier of processors, I would think if the talks and negotiatios went through, the PB by the end of this year or start of next year would include a DUAL CORE G4, since Intel has already a dual core processor on their P4 processors. How great would that be to have a dual core processor G4 over a single, heat prone G5?

that isn't even realistic! Intel doesn't have anything to do with the G4 roadmap. Intel doesn't even have anything to do with the POWER ISA. they are x86, IA-64, but not POWER.

Going over to Intel right now would be retarded and frankly I don't believe has any place in this discussion because it's not even rational speculation.

[alimunnik]

A faster processor is not the only issue influencing the design of the next generation of Powerbooks. Users of iMovie downloading HD video will no doubt notice the voracious gigabyte appetite of their precious footage. As megapixel specs trend ever upwards, hard drives of 100 Gb or less will soon seem humble indeed.
With 250 Gb already becoming the standard on many desktops, the next wave of Powerbooks will also require substantial bumps in storage to go along with faster processors. It's always possible to attach external hard drives, but that would be defeating the purpose of owning a laptop. What's the point of having a super fast PB if you only find yourself short of storage capacity?

[MORT A POTTY]

well larger HDs aren't really something Apple can control. as it is you are free to use whatever HD you wish.

[d0ubled0wn]

I don't think we have to worry about hard drive technologies. Hitachi recently announced a new technology called perpendicular recording that will increase capacity over today's HDs by 10x. Also Samsung recently announced solid-state mass storage using a fraction of the energy over a traditional HD.

I only hope Apple will get the 7448 in a PowerBook sometime soon. (maybe summer??)

[MORT A POTTY]

September would be an awesome prediction would fit the timeframe exactly for them to update, there is a WWDC where PowerBook updates are commonplace (Paris) and the 100GB 7200RPM HDs might be offered by then

[Infini-t]

What about the CELL processor, hasn't IBM just sampled a server board with two CELL processors and it was running linux? Would a modified version of those fit in a powerbook?