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Parky · Sep 19, 2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by joel_v

The new iTV is not really for me. it doesnt have a tv tuner in it. it doesnt have a hard drive.
So what is the point of it then. To stream movies that you bought off the iTunes store?

Why not just buy a mac mini, and a eyetv. that way you can record TV straight to the hard drive, and you can also just grab those videos/movies of your other computer.

wat i would like is a mac mini with an eyetv built-in.

The point is that you will also be able to stream your iTunes music, your iPhoto content, Internet streams, Radio Streams, and what ever else they decide we can stream. It is not trying to be a DVD player or a Video recorder replacement, as they are already delivered very well by other products. It's all about getting content from your computer / internet to the TV, nothing more.

Simple is best.

JMII · Sep 19, 2006, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Parky

Simple is best.

Bingo! iTV is super simple, it only does ONE thing: it streams your iTunes library (music/movies/TV shows) to your TV in HiDef with digital audio and it does so wirelessly - thats it. Put your mind into "average Joe" mode and stop thinking like a computer geek - for example my wife has no idea how to download DivX files or add a tuner/caputre card to our Mac, thus iTV is perfect for her. Plug-N-Play... boom instantly all the stuff in my computer now works on ANY TV in the house? Without running cables all over the place? NICE!!

Why have give it a DVD player when you can purchase movies from Apple? Why give it DVR abilites when you can buy TV shows from Apple? Why add a hard drive when it can stream data from other hardware Apple sells? It's all about getting you to BUY something else... but rewards you by linking all those purchased items together nicely. Very similar to how the whole iTunes/iPod relationship works.

So I see alot of potential in this device... PROVIDED we see a big improvement in the codecs supported by iTunes/QuickTime and enough bandwidth for HiDef content. Compressed audio for music maybe acceptable on set of headphones while working out, but people with an HDMI connector a Plasma TV aren't going to accept crappy UTube-look-alike videos.

As for what's inside iTV - I'd guess it's pretty much the same as your iPod: 1GB of flash based storage (to act as a video buffer/audio sync) and a scaled down OS with a nice GUI (Front Row clone), add in a video scaler of some kind, upgradeable firmware and you've got a nice compact easy to live with media streamer.

$300 is a bit pricey but hey this Apple and we are talking about the first generation of a new consumer electronics device. Thus, like the iPod, if this catches on you'll see tons more movies in the iTunes Store and the price of iTV might come down as the technology (especially wireless) becomes more standardized.

ChrisB · Sep 19, 2006, 04:31 PM

I did an Add To Library with a .mov file, in the Sorenson 2 codec into iTunes.

It ploped it into my Movie's list, and I can play it in iTunes just fine.

I will test some more. But right now, it looks like we can import non-MPEG4 content into iTunes, so the question is will iTV receive it and display it...

slugslugslug · Sep 19, 2006, 05:18 PM

The thing is, video streaming is different than audio streaming. This is the impression I have about how Airport Express/AirTunes works right now. The AX box knows one codec: Apple Lossless. When you stream to an Airport Express box, iTunes decodes the audio—whether it's AAC, mp3, protected AAC—then re-encodes on the fly and streams to the box.

But the iTV won't be able to work the same way. Transcoding video is a gargantuan task compared to audio, and iTunes won't be able to do it. Therefore, you'll have to be limited to whatever the iTV has built-in codecs for. That is, iTunes will probably just stream the contents of the video file directly, adding only encryption. So there may be some files that iTunes knows how to display but can't stream to the iTV. I suppose it's possible that the iTV's set of codecs will be extensible, but it'd probably be so only in Apple-approved ways (i.e. you won't be able to just drag QT components to it from your Mac)

wjdennen · Sep 19, 2006, 05:21 PM

tivo can do many of these things already.... ie. stream videos, photos and music from my mac, wirelessly.

plastiqueusa · Sep 19, 2006, 05:55 PM

I hope iTV lets us mount network shares in an advanced mode--I know it won't, but I can still hope, right?

kman42 · Sep 19, 2006, 10:41 PM

Iger says it has a hard drive. See iPodLounge for info.

Did I mention they should put an iSight on it?

selowitch · Sep 19, 2006, 10:41 PM

Does the iTV support gigabit ethernet? That would be a huge plus.

vinster · 12:15 AM

I think this is more of a device for people who don't want to spend the time and money purchasing and configuring a dedicated HTPC. However, I'd rather have the flexibility of a fully-functional computer with a TV-friendly menu system/contol panel plus integrated A/V encoding/playback.

I will reserve my final judgement of this device for if/when it's released, though.

quiklee · Sep 20, 2006, 01:35 AM

you know what i've been thinking and something that other's have pointed out . . . it's just an oversized video airport express . . . the same thing that everyone's been asking for the past few months during rumorizing/rant sessions . . .

honestly . . if you don't like the itv because of it's limitations . . get a mac mini . . . you get what you pay for, right?

Spliff · Sep 20, 2006, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by kman42

Iger says it has a hard drive. See iPodLounge for info.

Did I mention they should put an iSight on it?

You didn't provide a link. So could you either give us the link or paste the info here, please?

Simon · Sep 20, 2006, 02:47 AM

There's software to stream other audio than just iTunes' to an AP Express. Why shouldn't someone do something like that for the iTV? I'd be surprised if within a few months after iTV's intro, there were no software around to stream other video formats to the iTV.

Lenio · Sep 20, 2006, 08:34 AM

look for iTV to be a link back to the Mac to run Front Row. this is designed really to be a MAc version of the Media PC extender. depending on the next Rev of Front Row, you might even see increased software potential in regards to DVR capability and such.

to handle the video, (which by the way will be more like 8Mbps, not the 20 mentioned in a previous post - that would be MPEG2 compression levels), iTV will need a huge internal buffer to stream the video without hiccups, and it will not be done with 802.11n because it has SERIOUS flaws. for example, yes it is supposed to be backwards compatible, but in most cases it actually knocks out a,b,g networks. the supposed "standard" has not been followed by those who have created product and the only reason why we see product at this moment is that a bunch of chip manufacturers attempted to guess the standard before it was named, releasing what amounts to beta hardware. so unless Apple decides to disregard homeowner's existing wireless infrastructure, no way will we see n.

good call on the Gigabit Ethernet - I expect us to see that as well. the real secret for making the most out of iTV will be a wired network - this is the only way to guarantee Quality of Service of video. sorry to those of you without Cat5e/Cat6 in the walls already.

ChrisB · Sep 20, 2006, 01:20 PM

If you have space behind the entertainment center, you could setup a Mini and the iTV withe a Gigabit hub/router - it wouldn't be hard at all.

slugslugslug · Sep 20, 2006, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

There's software to stream other audio than just iTunes' to an AP Express. Why shouldn't someone do something like that for the iTV? I'd be surprised if within a few months after iTV's intro, there were no software around to stream other video formats to the iTV.

Right, but the questions are: Is it reasonable to expect iTV to have a limited set of codecs it can handle? And if so, will 3rd-party software be able to transcode from other codecs to one of iTV's with low enough latency?

Now I'm curious as to how AirFoil works (I think that's the name of the Any App -> APX audio streamer you refer to). Does it capture the audio hardware's output and convert it into Apple Lossless, or are does it just stream AIFF?

selowitch · Sep 20, 2006, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisB

If you have space behind the entertainment center, you could setup a Mini and the iTV withe a Gigabit hub/router - it wouldn't be hard at all.

I suppose not. But who wants to spring for a Mini for $600+ dollars when an iTV alone would/should accomplish the goal at $300? Besides, if I understand things correctly, the Mini will create a bottleneck between itself and the iTV device where it uses USB 2.0 (topping out at a bit under 500Mbps), whereas gigabit can at least in theory achieve twice that speed.

Bottom line: It would really be nice for the iTV to have a gigabit Ethernet port. But I'll bet it won't, or it will only appear in a later or more expensive model.

DrWoo · Sep 20, 2006, 03:58 PM

To those who wish iTV had DVR capabilities, I don’t think it’s going to happen. I believe iTV is apple’s attempt at cornering the future IPTV market. I’m willing to bet that Apple wants to eventually replace cable tv providers. The reason we have DVRs in the first place it record content as it is aired (dropped) by the networks. What’s the difference if I subscribed to an RSS feed to have my computer download new content from the networks as it’s dropped and then I can watch at my leisure streamed through my iTV? I suspect to see tons of first run content available the same time as it’s aired on the networks through iTV using the same model that podcast (Video) use today. I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple even offered a monthly subscription model with all the TV content you want for one fee. iTV’s hardware and features are nothing revolutionary, but then again neither was the iPod and we know the story there.

::maroma:: · Sep 20, 2006, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by DrWoo

To those who wish iTV had DVR capabilities, I don’t think it’s going to happen. I believe iTV is apple’s attempt at cornering the future IPTV market. I’m willing to bet that Apple wants to eventually replace cable tv providers. The reason we have DVRs in the first place it record content as it is aired (dropped) by the networks. What’s the difference if I subscribed to an RSS feed to have my computer download new content from the networks as it’s dropped and then I can watch at my leisure streamed through my iTV? I suspect to see tons of first run content available the same time as it’s aired on the networks through iTV using the same model that podcast (Video) use today. I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple even offered a monthly subscription model with all the TV content you want for one fee. iTV’s hardware and features are nothing revolutionary, but then again neither was the iPod and we know the story there.

This is a market that is just waiting to explode. There are millions upon millions of people out there who want a certain model for their cable TV or satellite TV providers. That is, instead of paying a flat fee per month for a giant set of channels, most of which the individual doesn't want, they pay for only the channels they want to subscribe to, nothing more. The cable/satellite providers do not want this, and they have been fighting it every step of the way.

What the iTV could do is fill that gap a little better than does something like TiVo. But instead of choosing certain channels, you choose certain programs. You subscribe to those programs, they are delivered to your iTV as soon as they become available, and you watch them at your leisure. If this is indeed the model in which Apple sees the iTV filling, it could be a revolution in the television provider market. Cable/satellite providers would have to completely rethink and change their current model in order to keep customers.

And the key thing isn't really the iTV device itself, but the backbone on which the content will be delivered to the customer. If Apple can nail that down, the iTV could change the television market like the iPod/iTunes Music Store changed the music market.

kman42 · Sep 20, 2006, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

This is a market that is just waiting to explode. There are millions upon millions of people out there who want a certain model for their cable TV or satellite TV providers. That is, instead of paying a flat fee per month for a giant set of channels, most of which the individual doesn't want, they pay for only the channels they want to subscribe to, nothing more. The cable/satellite providers do not want this, and they have been fighting it every step of the way.

What the iTV could do is fill that gap a little better than does something like TiVo. But instead of choosing certain channels, you choose certain programs. You subscribe to those programs, they are delivered to your iTV as soon as they become available, and you watch them at your leisure. If this is indeed the model in which Apple sees the iTV filling, it could be a revolution in the television provider market. Cable/satellite providers would have to completely rethink and change their current model in order to keep customers.

And the key thing isn't really the iTV device itself, but the backbone on which the content will be delivered to the customer. If Apple can nail that down, the iTV could change the television market like the iPod/iTunes Music Store changed the music market.

This is what I have been dreaming of. And there is no reason you could only subscribe to specific shows. HBO could easily offer a package deal of $100 for all new shows this season or something. I'd much rather give my money to Apple and HBO than to the cable companies for providing me with 150 channels of pure crap.

Simon · Sep 21, 2006, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Right, but the questions are: Is it reasonable to expect iTV to have a limited set of codecs it can handle? And if so, will 3rd-party software be able to transcode from other codecs to one of iTV's with low enough latency?

Agreed, those are the interesting questions. I'm afraid though we'll be waiting till next year to get definitive answers since Apple obviously hasn't finalized the device yet.

DrWoo · Sep 21, 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

This is a market that is just waiting to explode. There are millions upon millions of people out there who want a certain model for their cable TV or satellite TV providers. That is, instead of paying a flat fee per month for a giant set of channels, most of which the individual doesn't want, they pay for only the channels they want to subscribe to, nothing more. The cable/satellite providers do not want this, and they have been fighting it every step of the way.

What the iTV could do is fill that gap a little better than does something like TiVo. But instead of choosing certain channels, you choose certain programs. You subscribe to those programs, they are delivered to your iTV as soon as they become available, and you watch them at your leisure. If this is indeed the model in which Apple sees the iTV filling, it could be a revolution in the television provider market. Cable/satellite providers would have to completely rethink and change their current model in order to keep customers.

And the key thing isn't really the iTV device itself, but the backbone on which the content will be delivered to the customer. If Apple can nail that down, the iTV could change the television market like the iPod/iTunes Music Store changed the music market.

You said it better than I did, but this is exactly what I believe the real strategy is. The DVR is to ITV what Fax was to Email. DVR is just the inbetween technology until we IPTV emerges.