[lau_lau_lau]

hey all,

i'm still deciding which mac portable to get (i'm a slow thinker okay!) i was thinking of holding out for a 15" AlBook, but reality has kicked in and i've realised if i bought that i'd have no money left for anything. ever. (well, for the music equipment i want to set up a laptop studio.) anyway, the next best option seems to be the 12" powerbook, but i remember seeing one of these a few months ago and the screen seemed almost too small (it would be my only computer so i would be staring at it a lot.)

i got out my ruler, and divided off 12" diagonally of my 17" crt. i know the amount you see in a crt is much less than 17", but even so the 12 inches i measured seemed to take up a huge amount of the screen. so, for dummies like me, i was wondering if someone could measure their 12" screen and post the measurements in typical X by Y cms. this would be much appreciated!

[Hozie]

Approx. 24.5 * 18cm by my (not very accurate) measures. That's the screen itslef, not counting the bezel around it obviously. The bezel is about 1.5cm wide. There ya go!


FYI: I use my 12" as my only computer as well, but I've got it hooked up to my 17" CRT in order to double my working space. I recommend it, because I couldn't cope with the 12" screen alone. It's fine for when I go to the library or whatever, but for everyday work you need too hook it up to an external monitor IMHO. If you do that, then you've got a way better config (screen-wise) than a desktop with a single 17" or 19" if you ask me.

[Mskr]

Just in case you wanted English measurements:

Width: 9 11/16"
Height: 7 1/4"
Diagonal: 12 1/8" or so -- only 12" ruler!

I tried to measure just the pixel-packed area's dimensions, and not the (miniscule) black border around the outside of the glass between the frame and the pixels. So that's the actual amount of visible space you'll have.

[Commodus]

In terms of useable desktop space, remember that a 12" PowerBook is as good as a 14" iBook. The only difference is in how large the pixels themselves are. I actually prefer 12" displays in those cases, because it doesn't look as pixelated.

Moreover, you mentioned that you have a 17" CRT - you can just hook a 12" PowerBook up (the VGA adapter is included) and get a higher resolution that way. In a sense, you'd get the best of both worlds... you'd have the extra workspace when you're at home (or wherever a CRT display is), but you'd have a genuinely portable system for anything else.

[lau_lau_lau]

thanks for the replies! very useful. to see if i can cope with this screen size, i have conducted The Experiment. basically, i taped two bits of paper over my monitor in the right places to see if i can cope with the smaller screen size. this seemed okay, but it was a bit stupid as i couldn't see half of what i was writing as it was covered by the paper so i conducted The Experiment Mark II, where i shrank the range of the electron guns on my crt, this didnt get it quite small enough so i pushed it off the screen. with everything so small, it seems a little strenuous so i may have to consider the 14" iBook. unless of course theres some way to make EVERYTHING bigger in osX? because the first experiment (the taped paper one) was fine. i don't really care about the resolution as long as its enough for me not to strain. i don't want to ruin my eyesight! (more so!)

[Powaqqatsi]

It's small, VERY small... You really NEED an extra monitor when using it at home.

[wanderlust]

Originally posted by lau_lau_lau:
unless of course theres some way to make EVERYTHING bigger in osX

System preferences > universal access

[iWrite]

I was going to buy our son the 12-inch Powerbook (and I was going to snag it when my current system is left at the office or in for repair at Apple) but you know what? I bought him the 14-inch iBook and it's probably THE BEST Mac we've ever bought, period. When I consider the price I paid ($1259 plus tax for an "open box" 800Mhz system at the local Apple Store -- most stores have an excess of "open box" items even if they've been opened but never used like the one we bought) and see the nice big screen, it really IS the best buy for the buck that we've ever made for a Mac.

I cannot recommend it more -- it's a darn fine machine.

[Eug]

And people say high school math isn't important...

Claimed diagonal measurement of 12" screen = 12.1".

A line drawn from the bottom left corner to the top right corner will form a right triangle, with that diagonal measurement corresponding to the length of the hypotenuse of that right triangle. (The bottom of the screen is the bottom of the triangle and the right side of the screen is the right side of the triangle.)

Dimension of screen = 1024x768 = 4:3 aspect ratio.

A right triangle with sides measuring 4 and 3 means that the hypotenuse will equal 5. ie. It's a 3-4-5 triangle.

12.1 / 5 = 2.42 units

Thus, the other two sides are 3 x 2.42 = 7.26" and 4 x 2.42 = 9.68"

Width: 9 11/16"
Height: 7 1/4"
Diagonal: 12 1/8" or so -- only 12" ruler!

Just to show that the math works:

7 1/4" = 7.25"
9 11/16" = 9.69"
12 1/8" = 12.1"

BTW, with such a triangle, the sum of the squares of the length of the two smaller sides will equal the square of the length of the hypotenuse.

7.26 squared + 9.68 squared = 52.7 + 93.7 = 146.4
12.1 squared = 146.4

I'm surprised I actually remember this stuff...

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by lau_lau_lau:
thanks for the replies! very useful. to see if i can cope with this screen size, i have conducted The Experiment. basically, i taped two bits of paper over my monitor in the right places to see if i can cope with the smaller screen size.

That's not going to accomplish anything. You need to see 1024x768 on a 12" screen. Limiting your current screen to 12" is only going to show you whatever effective resolution you have created by covering some of your pixels. If you were in 800x600 on a 15" monitor to begin with, you just gave yourself something like 640x480 in a 12" space, which is not what the iBook or PowerBook would be like.

[mosch]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
It's small, VERY small... You really NEED an extra monitor when using it at home.

I use my PB12 without a monitor regularly... though I also use it with a monitor fairly regularly. Honestly, once you've been using it for a little bit, it seems bigger than it does at first. You just get a little better at using your program-switching hotkeys.

[killer_735]

I just picked up the 12" powerbook, and I think that the whining about screen size is totally unwarranted. First of all, the resolution (1024x768) on the 12" is the same as the res. on the 14" ibook. You're not getting any more real estate with the 14" iBook. Second, remember that Apple uses really nice LCDs, and unless you need glasses and don't have them, you'll have no problem reading the laptop screen. Also, the G4 lets you use the external monitor as more space, not just video mirroring. With the iBook, all you can do is tell it to mirror what's on the laptop display. Besides, the iBooks' resale is going to plummett as soon as the 970 processors come out, whereas the g4s will stay decent.

[lau_lau_lau]

"And people say high school math isn't important..."

nonono, you miss my point. i thought the figure quoted by apple could be on the generous side, for some reason. my maths certainly isn't in need of a brush up, i'm going to study it at uni this year!

why is the decision so hard? *cries into yoghurt* by the way, the resolution is not the issue, its the size of the pixels themselves.

[Eug]

Originally posted by killer_735:
I just picked up the 12" powerbook, and I think that the whining about screen size is totally unwarranted. First of all, the resolution (1024x768) on the 12" is the same as the res. on the 14" ibook. You're not getting any more real estate with the 14" iBook. Second, remember that Apple uses really nice LCDs, and unless you need glasses and don't have them, you'll have no problem reading the laptop screen. Also, the G4 lets you use the external monitor as more space, not just video mirroring. With the iBook, all you can do is tell it to mirror what's on the laptop display. Besides, the iBooks' resale is going to plummett as soon as the 970 processors come out, whereas the g4s will stay decent.

I had a 12" iBook. The screen size was OK, but text and stuff did seem a bit small with the 106 dpi pixel density. I think a 13" screen would be the sweet spot for a 1024x768 screen resolution, and would get the pixel density (98 dpi) closer to something like the TiBook. (The 14" iBook's 91 dpi is too low for my tastes for a laptop.)

[Eug]

Originally posted by lau_lau_lau:
"And people say high school math isn't important..."

nonono, you miss my point. i thought the figure quoted by apple could be on the generous side, for some reason. my maths certainly isn't in need of a brush up, i'm going to study it at uni this year!

why is the decision so hard? *cries into yoghurt* by the way, the resolution is not the issue, its the size of the pixels themselves.

CRTs are not measured the same way as LCDs. The values given for LCDs are usually fairly accurate, whereas with CRTs, the usable area is overestimated.

ie. A 17" CRT would be equivalent to something like a 16" LCD. Similarly, a 12" LCD would be equivalent to something like a 13" CRT.

Also, remember that the 12" measurement is the diagonal, if you don't already know this.

In your situation, I'd probably get the 12" AluBook with SuperDrive. There is no other option IMO. You can't afford the GHz TiBook or 17" AluBook. And as far as I'm concerned, the G3 is dead (at least for anyone who wants to do the least bit with video). But YMMV.

[lau_lau_lau]

ymmv?

thanks for the advice, i may end up picking up a 12" powerbook, although without superdrive - i don't need it for anything.

an alternative plan would be to see if i could pick up a refurb TiBook from the UK online refurb store on wednesdays....

[iWrite]

I think the 12-inch Powerbooks are okay, but nothing that I would buy. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, but it's just too small for working on for a long period of time...FOR ME. I tried.

I think the best you can do is go to an Apple Store and compare the iBook and the Powerbook 12-inch. The 14-inch iBook is a lot nicer than I thought it would be. My son took the iBook with him in the car last night and watched "Meet The Parents" and the picture on the LCD was just terrific. The battery life was excellent also -- he went almost 3 hours before it went down to 11% and that included watching a DVD.

But, buy what you want. Just take your time so you don't have buyer's remorse.

[Eug]

Originally posted by lau_lau_lau:
ymmv?

thanks for the advice, i may end up picking up a 12" powerbook, although without superdrive - i don't need it for anything.

an alternative plan would be to see if i could pick up a refurb TiBook from the UK online refurb store on wednesdays....

Yeah, a TiBook would be nicer if you're willing to go refurb.

YMMV = "Your mileage may vary."

The 14-inch iBook is a lot nicer than I thought it would be.

Personally I dislike the 14" iBook. Heavy, with no added screen real estate, with a relatively dim screen (when used in a well-lit room). The 12" screen isn't particularly bright either, but those machines are much more portable.