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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Art & Graphic Design > FontBook 2.0-replace Suitcase or not?

FontBook 2.0-replace Suitcase or not?
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stitzlein
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May 1, 2005, 10:03 AM
 
I'm about to upgrade to Tiger and I've got about 10,000 typefaces. I'd rather not pay for Suitcase XI at home (I have it at work and am not impressed). Will Tiger's Fontbook handle a large database of fonts?

/Stitzlein
     
nycdunz
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May 3, 2005, 04:52 AM
 
im not impressed with suitcase either, very slow, i have like 6000 fonts on my system, and dont plan on installing that on 10.4 at all.. instead im just gonna stick to the default fonts that come with tiger and cs 2
     
Randman
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May 3, 2005, 04:55 AM
 
The new Font Book is improved in Tiger but not sure about that many fonts.

10K? Why do you have so many?

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jimcpherson
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May 3, 2005, 03:10 PM
 
no.
     
ManOfSteal
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May 3, 2005, 11:17 PM
 
I use Font Reserve Server actually.
     
godzookie2k
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May 5, 2005, 08:47 AM
 
You'd be a fool to put your font management hopes on font book. Install suitcase. Suck it up. (or font reserve)
     
zl9600
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May 5, 2005, 01:33 PM
 
hold on a second. those of you who are saying 'suck it up with suitcase' and absolute 'no': have you actually tried fontbook 2? not fontbook 1. fontbook 2.

i read here that fontbook 2 in conjunction with automator might possibly obviate the need for software like suitcase. apple's own (admittedly pr) page can be read here

again, this is for TIGER, not any previous incarnations of osx.

and as far as sucking up to suitcase, i own x1, paid for it, and now am ready to dump it. why? because it is not compatible with adobe applications, (yet, but with no date on when). perhaps font agent pro is better, font reserve, i don't know. but call me pollyannish for wanting to see apple nuke all these 3rd party apps by really revving up fontbook 2. why? because it's the most critical part of a designer's ability to use software, and designers are apple's biggest target market and user base.

so has anyone else with a large number of fonts actually tried out fontbook 2? if so, let's have an honest review of the updated version, not the handicapped v1 of fontbook.
( Last edited by zl9600; May 5, 2005 at 01:41 PM. Reason: edited to use links, dugh)
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cla
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May 5, 2005, 11:46 PM
 
Here's a review of Font Book 2.0:

Con's: unstable, crashes when removing fonts, crashes when adding fonts and messes up font locations.
Pro's: Launches quickly
     
KeriVit
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May 6, 2005, 10:17 PM
 
That many fonts- fuggedabout it... Look at thisreview

personally- I have suitcase- but WANT and have tried FontAgent

I work in Prepress- and I have to ask clients and all- where the HELL did you get 10,000 fonts?
     
Skizzum
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May 13, 2005, 01:38 AM
 
I have Tiger and FontBook 2 and love both. I am a lab technician at Ivy Tech State College in Indiana and we only deal with about 500+ fonts and are currently using FontAgent Pro 2. I have a new PowerBook G4 at home and use FontBook 2. I have no experience with Suitcase, but I can tell you when FontBook first came out it was very disappointing. FontBook 2 seems to have fixed all the little bugs from version 1. It does not crash when removing fonts, nor does it crash when adding fonts, and doesn't do anything else weird with font locations. It does however launch very quickly. The activation and deactivation of fonts are updated inside of Adobe applications instantly. (I am using Adobe CS2 apps, not sure if that makes a difference from FontBook 1 to 2 or not.)

Originally Posted by cla
Here's a review of Font Book 2.0:

Con's: unstable, crashes when removing fonts, crashes when adding fonts and messes up font locations.
Pro's: Launches quickly
     
zl9600
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May 13, 2005, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by KeriVit
That many fonts- fuggedabout it... Look at thisreview

personally- I have suitcase- but WANT and have tried FontAgent

I work in Prepress- and I have to ask clients and all- where the HELL did you get 10,000 fonts?
That review mentions nothing about Fontbook 2. While it's from April, it was pre-Tiger's release, and while this author may have had time to test Fontbook 2 on an early copy, I seriously doubt he's using Fontbook 2 as any kind of a benchmark.

I'm glad to see someone (skizzum) is having a positive experience, and cla's review of the crashing, etc. didn't come with any details as to what kind of use was causing such bugginess. which user's experience will be typical... that is the question!

Finally, as an owner of Suitcase X1, I too would love to use FAP. But I'm not shelling out another $100 till i'm positive fontbook 2 is not sufficient for me and my 4-5K fonts. i understand FAP has a 30 day trial, i may give that a shot while also trying fontbook 2.
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nycdunz
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May 16, 2005, 04:48 AM
 
fontbook2 works great, no need for 3rd part font managers now!
     
stitzlein  (op)
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May 16, 2005, 02:17 PM
 
Well, after using FontBook 2 for a couple of weeks, with 999 fonts, I can safely say that it works pretty well, with reservations.

+Rectifying duplicates is cool.
+Works well with Adobe apps, no need to quit and reopen them after activating fonts
+UI is very simple

-Takes a bit of time to start up, but so did Suitcase
-Activates ALL 999 of my fonts after a restart of the machine (really stupid, hopefully 10.4.1 will fix this)
-No autoactivation. Supposedly Automator can help with this but I'm not really sure how. No big deal for me but I can see why it could be a deal breaker.
-There's no way to display fonts by category like "open fonts", etc.
     
jimcpherson
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May 16, 2005, 02:33 PM
 
I agree with stitzlein almost 100%. My original impulse was to avoid Fontbook 2 like the plague and stick with Suitcase (though I've always found Suitcase clunky, slow and unstable). But after using Fontbook 2 for a couple of weeks I've had a very good experience so far.

I haven't noticed the slow startup time mentioned above (though I have only about 250 fonts installed, vs. stitzlein's 999 fonts). I also haven't noticed my fonts reactivating after a restart (at least the one's I've turned off using the resolve duplicates tool have remained off). And autoactivation would be a definite plus, though its workable without it, as Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. update immediaelty after you activate the fonts in Fontbook. I would also like to view multiple fonts in one window and not have to arrange a bunch of smaller windows side by side when comparing typefaces.
     
himself
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May 23, 2005, 06:47 AM
 
I'm using FontAgent Pro 2 on 10.4.1, and I have no problems with it. Works fine with CS1 (not sure about CS2, though I expect it to be fine), auto-activation works with the help of a few plug-ins, and I've never had to restart an application after manually activating a font.

I've considered giving Fontbook 2 a try after reading this thread, but my experiences with ver. 1 were not great. Even if Fontbook 2 is much improved, I need to know one thing before I ever consider using it -- will it move or copy my fonts from my default location once I activate or deactivate them? Fontbook 1 did this, and I hated it. I have ~2300 fonts in my collection, organized alphabetically, and I want them to stay put.

P.S.: if you're considering a 3rd party font manager, don't even consider Suitcase. Go directly to FontAgent Pro (I plan on upgrading to FAP 3 soon). I used Suitcase for about two years, and it was slow, it slowed my machine down, and wasn't really reliable. By comparison, FAP is rock-solid.
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nycdunz
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May 23, 2005, 01:55 PM
 
yes suitcase x11.0.4 is damn slow, i have 2gb of ram on my powerbook and it put my machine to a crawl... yes and fontbook 2.0 does move the fonts to your /Library/Fonts... but it works very well I might add...
     
himself
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May 24, 2005, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by nycdunz
yes suitcase x11.0.4 is damn slow, i have 2gb of ram on my powerbook and it put my machine to a crawl... yes and fontbook 2.0 does move the fonts to your /Library/Fonts... but it works very well I might add...
So, it dumps every font file into a single folder (/Library/Fonts)? Will Fontbook still work with those fonts if they were organized into sub-folders? If not, that would be unacceptable for me, with a collection of over 2000 fonts... it would be a mess.
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cla
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Oct 6, 2005, 04:24 AM
 
I'm using my work computer which just had a fresh wipe/install (Tiger). I'm wondering what's with Font Book – it doesn't crash or beach anymore.

As my home computer has been upgraded to Tiger, I conclude Mac OS X can really benefit from a clean install from time to time...
     
siMac
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Oct 6, 2005, 06:55 AM
 
Linotype's FontExplorer is free and better than all the others too.

Nuff said.
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zl9600
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Oct 7, 2005, 04:22 PM
 
simac, can you tell us how you use it and how many fonts you have in it?

i've solved some of my issues with FAP 3.02, but i still don't think it's great. support acknowledges they cannot deal with MM fonts, and it screws up your library big time (although they do create a new one for you), and duplicates are not handled well.

the worst part is system font management. thanks to FAP, i have screwed up display of dashboard apps and often have mess-ups with safari display. i choose not to let FAP manage my system fonts, but somehow it does anyway.

support is sketchy, but sometimes they answer right away. i wish they had a forum. i'd love to learn more about the linotype; i figured it was a stealth program to go in and delete all fonts that you didn't purchase via linotype.
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Super Glitcher
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Oct 7, 2005, 07:26 PM
 
I'm using Suitcase X11. I only run with maybe 150 fonts active at any time
but Suitcase is managing a library of about 22,000. It's not slow for me at
all- I would definitely NOT recommend managing your system fonts through
Suitcase. I kind of use FontBook and Suitcase cooperatively. Since FontBook
is built into the system it's perfect for disabling the system type that I never
use - but FontBook doesn't hack it on managing large libraries.

I'd say it really depends on how much type you manage and how frequently
your retooling your active sets as to whether it justifies the cost. But if it's
a lot of type - stick with a pro app.
"Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle."
     
Baphomet
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Oct 8, 2005, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by siMac
Linotype's FontExplorer is free and better than all the others too.

Nuff said.

Nice!
It's like iTunes but with fonts. I really hope this app catches on and grows in the design world. The fact that a font store is built in could easily put an end to commercial font applications like Suitcase. Thanks for reccommending it siMAC!
     
zl9600
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Oct 8, 2005, 07:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Super Glitcher
I'm using Suitcase X11. I only run with maybe 150 fonts active at any time
but Suitcase is managing a library of about 22,000. It's not slow for me at
all- I would definitely NOT recommend managing your system fonts through
Suitcase. I kind of use FontBook and Suitcase cooperatively. Since FontBook
is built into the system it's perfect for disabling the system type that I never
use - but FontBook doesn't hack it on managing large libraries.

I'd say it really depends on how much type you manage and how frequently
your retooling your active sets as to whether it justifies the cost. But if it's
a lot of type - stick with a pro app.

are you using tiger or panther? if you're using tiger, how are you getting by with the fact that suitcase won't auto activate fonts in most later programs (i believe they finally got it for indesign cs2) any longer? just curious what your workflow is like.
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siMac
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Oct 8, 2005, 08:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by zl9600
simac, can you tell us how you use it and how many fonts you have in it?
At work I am using FontExplorerX with a couple of thousand fonts and have not had any trouble. There were some stability issues but the recent update fixed 'em. All in all I'm very impressed, especially considering it's technically still a Release Candidate.

I don't think there are any duplicate finding functions, but it will warn you before activating multiple copies and it has some other extras too, such as clearing the font caches.

I have to say I'm quite excited by this app. Since OSX 10.0 we have been lacking a decent font manager.
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iomatic
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Oct 8, 2005, 08:43 PM
 
Wow. FontExplorer ROCKS! I'm happy.

Can't think of any features I'm missing???
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 8, 2005, 09:33 PM
 
I'm using 10.4.2 at home with SuitcaseX11 - it auto-activates fine
in all my apps and I haven't heard of any activation issues. As far
as workflow, I do a lot different things, so I use a lot of apps -
CS2 suite, Macromedia suite, FCP suite, AfterFX, Maya etc.. and I'm
not having font issues on any level. Granted I'm not working over
a network at home. But it's a dream.. I remember a few years ago
Suitcase sucked beans... it was ATM Deluxe all the way!! (miss that app)

At work on the other hand we've been using Font Reserve, now there's
a problem app. As soon as CS2 came out it wasn't auto-activating in
Illustrator or InDesign.. plus - package a document in InDesign that
has the plug-in embedded in it and it force quits! Nice! Meanwhile all
our computers there are on 10.4.1 as the upgrade to 10.4.2 makes CS
eat crap when working on a network.. can't save documents to a net
drive - which kills our workflow.

In the process of getting my work to phase over to Suitcase from
Font Reserve, just don't get how people browse with that app anyway?
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siMac
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Oct 9, 2005, 06:01 AM
 
On FontExplorerX:

So far my experience with FontExplorerX has been positive. There were some stability problems with an earlier version (ie. not activating fonts when I asked it to) but they seem to have been ironed out in version 1.0FC2.

It really does seem to offer everything that I, personally, have wanted in a font manager for a long time - things such as the way it manages sets: to activate a group of fonts for a specific job, drag the folder to th dock icon; FEX will then add a 'playlist' to the left hand column with these fonts; when you're finished with them you can either remove the set, or remove the set and the fonts within it (unlike Suitcase where removing a set left the fonts behind to pollute your library). Features for finding damaged or incomplete fonts are the easiest I've seen in a font manager too.

Even auto-activation works, a function I have long since abandoned in Suitcase for being unreliable and crash-prone. There is both global auto-activation (complete with an exclude list), and plug-ins for Quark and the Adobe apps when necessary.

As you may be aware, I ditched Suitcase (Extensis can only make terrible software) long ago in favour of FontAgentPro, but even FAP had some issues with fonts not showing up in XPress. So far using FEX all my fonts have showing up as expected, except once and that was fixed using the 'empty caches' function.

I haven't tried out the Font Store yet, I had a quick look and it seems very familiar (iTMS) and could prove handy later on. When an app encounters missing fonts it will offer you a link to buy the font from the font store, no more intrusive than Quark's same 'feature', yet in this case justifiable - they have to fund development somehow!

I really recommend you try out the software, you've got nothing to lose. If you're worried about your fonts you can opt to copy them into a new library when you first import them, the library works similarly to FAP in that it groups all your fonts into a managed folder on your hard disk, this way you can leave your originals untouched in their usual location.

I'm hoping for a French localisation when the final release comes out, then I will switch the entire studio where I work over to FEX - I'll be popular, they're all still using Suitcase!!!
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zl9600
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Oct 9, 2005, 01:13 PM
 
simac and super: do either of you have helvetica neue (not the dfont), and if so do you have ANY issues with your dashboard widgets displaying improperly? i've traced it to that font, and FAP is the culprit. i have the full set of helvetica neue that i use for many prjoects, and it does not like the dfont in the system.

i am afraid to dump the dfont, though, because i know so many apps use it.

i'm glad to hear the good reviews of FEX! dang i wish i'd waited to buy FAP (and i own a full copy of suitcase, too... maybe i should sell em)
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godzookie2k
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Oct 9, 2005, 02:06 PM
 
I hear its good, but for now, suitcase works well enough that spending forever reimporting and reorganizing my font library, not to mention risking breaking... well everything by switching font systems, eh, its just not worth it. If I was starting from scratch I'd totally give it a shot, but as much as I hate suitcase, switching just doesn't attract me at all. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
     
siMac
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Oct 9, 2005, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by godzookie2k
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
What?!? It is broke! Suitcase is a godawful piece of software, slow, buggy and crashprone (like all Extensis software). LOL, 'ain't broke' - I bet you still use Quark as well!
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godzookie2k
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Oct 10, 2005, 07:29 PM
 
Hey I already said suitcase sucks and I would try something else if I didn't have to worry about wrangling 3000+ fonts and a crap ton of font sets. For now, suitcase does its job. Its not great, it aint no ATM, but it works, changing *for me* isn't worth the headache. And yes, like most of the page designing world, I do use quark.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 10, 2005, 08:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by siMac
What?!? It is broke! Suitcase is a godawful piece of software, slow, buggy and crashprone (like all Extensis software). LOL, 'ain't broke' - I bet you still use Quark as well!
Hey, like I said- I'm managing w a y more than 3000 faces,
I use Suitcase, and I have no problems with it. I've had complaints
with Suitcase in the past, but the recent updates have made a huge
difference for me.. works great.

20,000+ faces, Suitcase X11, OSX 10.4.2, Dual 2 Ghz G5 & no issues.

For you guys having issues with Suitcase, what version are you
running and what kind of machine are you running it on?

Also, what issues are you having?

Really sounds like it's giving you a hard time...
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godzookie2k
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Oct 10, 2005, 10:37 PM
 
I've been having no problems with suitcase, especially since XI. I had *TONS* of problems when I first migrated to X and I'm still pretty bitter about it. My gripes with suitcase lie in UI qualms, slowness, and basically with the fact that its just not ATM. Its annoying to me that I have to keep this app running 24/7 in my dock for it to work right, its annoying to me that the whole thing dies if I accidentally drop a corrupted font into it, amogst other things. However, it works, well enough... and does its job. Its not utopia, but it'll do.
     
Super Glitcher
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Oct 11, 2005, 10:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by godzookie2k
I've been having no problems with suitcase, especially since XI. I had *TONS* of problems when I first migrated to X and I'm still pretty bitter about it. My gripes with suitcase lie in UI qualms, slowness, and basically with the fact that its just not ATM. Its annoying to me that I have to keep this app running 24/7 in my dock for it to work right, its annoying to me that the whole thing dies if I accidentally drop a corrupted font into it, amogst other things. However, it works, well enough... and does its job. Its not utopia, but it'll do.
My feelings exactly!
Does anyone actuall know why ATM never made it to OS X?
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himself
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Oct 12, 2005, 12:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Super Glitcher
My feelings exactly!
Does anyone actuall know why ATM never made it to OS X?
I don't know. When I heard it being brought up to Adobe for consideration, they said they weren't interested in porting it, or something to that effect.
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Super Glitcher
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Oct 12, 2005, 01:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by himself
I don't know. When I heard it being brought up to Adobe for consideration, they said they weren't interested in porting it, or something to that effect.
Apparently the product line managers at Adobe aren't managing many fonts.
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mydog8mymac
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Oct 15, 2005, 09:57 PM
 
I'm trying the FontAgnet Pro 30 day free trial (9 days in) because Font Reserve was screwing up my system after the last Tiger Update. Every day I was having to run Disk Warior because InDesign was quitting immediately after launch and I was losing letters out of my menus." Window" would be "indow" etc.... I and ran Font Doctor and rebuilt the FR database several times, but nothing would work. I'm so disapointed that Extensis bought it (when it was Suitcase's big rival) and then doomed its existence. I often went to the support pages and did all the updates, but it was like a bad relationship—I was the only one putting in any effort. So, I broke up with FontReserve.

I have had NO problems at all since I made the switch. FAP picked up 12 corrupt fonts that Font Doctor missed. The only fonts installed in my system are Helvetica, Helvetica Neue, Last Resort, Keyboard, and LucidaGrande. I don't have any fonts in my user library. I'm using all the CS aps and Flash 2004MX. (No Quark) FAP is my new boyfriend!
     
nycdunz
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Oct 17, 2005, 03:19 AM
 
wow linotype's fontexplorer is awesome... goodbye suitcase, fontagent pro!

and it's free too, finally a good font management app...

http://www.linotype.com/fontexplorerX
     
gadster
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Oct 17, 2005, 09:23 AM
 
siMac: you should start a new thread about this. This is big news for the design community.

It's one of those things where you just go: how crap was it before this came along?

Kudos to Linotype, well done and thank you.
e-gads
     
siMac
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Oct 17, 2005, 09:43 AM
 
Actually I did create a thread here about this, but it seems to have disappeared off the face of the forums...

There's another one in the Applications forum, perhaps some non-graphic-designing mod decided that this wasn't big news for the design community after all, just a duplicate thread and therefore worthy of the big trash icon in the sky.
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gadster
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Oct 17, 2005, 09:50 AM
 
I'll give it a shot.
e-gads
     
zl9600
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Oct 17, 2005, 04:15 PM
 
i ended up ditching all my fonts and starting over with FAP... i seem to be back on track with my dashboard widgets.

however, i am having problems now with indesign Cs2 font activation... one second the font is activated, the next it's gone. hoping that it's a bug with the new auto-launch update they just put on their website (at insidersoftware.com) for the indesign 4.0.1 update...

the ONLY thing that scared me away from fontexplorer right now is that the warning about it being beta software and that it could erase data... images of missing files scared me. the risks are too big for me as it is my bread and butter.... and i already paid for FAP, and it's working, so i'm going to hope you FEX users will report back after some time and hopefully the rest of the world can enjoy a FREE font software tool!
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