[jarends]

the new update to the front page was definately a start. the smaller headlines look a lot better, and make everything a lot more readable.

some things I do not like though:

the inside macnn bar just looks funny. its too busy. replace it with something more mac-like

i also don't like the little red 3 dot things.

this is a mac site. it should take some cues from either aqua or even OS 9. its still very busy and jumbled looking.

as far as the fonts go, there are too many diffrent colors. some text is blue, some is red, some is black. try to cut that down a bit. and use geneva.

anyway, at first I had thought this site was just joining a network, but it looks more to me like macnn was sold. Has anyone else noticed how that admins have just disapeared from the boards entirely? This is why I'm thinking that.

Everyone just relax though. As much as this annoys me, it is just a web site, and I can choose to visit it or not. NFResponse is taking a little too heavy of a hand with this stuff though. If he's a site owner, why isn't he an admin or a moderator? I think something needs to be posted somewhere that explains what exactly is going on, rather than just posting to these forums. I want to know if the old people (misha, etc) are still around, who actually owns the site, what changes are taking place, etc. Post something on the main part of the site.

[georgius]

Has anyone else noticed how that admins have just disapeared from the boards entirely?

No comment.



------------------



11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

[macvillage.net]

I am sorry to say it, but I think 9 out of 10 mac users agree, this new network sucks.

Sorry.


I miss the old MacNN

------------------
Robert Accettura
Owner/Webmaster of

[georgius]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
I am sorry to say it, but I think 9 out of 10 mac users agree, this new network sucks.

Sorry.


I miss the old MacNN

the old MacNn isn't dead...not yet anyway.

And if I've got anything to say about it...the old MacNN isn't going anywhere.

But it would be nice to see some dark blue on the front page again...sooner rather than later!

------------------



11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

[typoon]

Originally posted by NewsFactor Response:
Please Read
-----------

A few things:

As some of you can see, we've begun to change our front page, based on your feedback.

You've also noticed that the news was not updated till 11:00 ET. We will address this.

In the meantime, I've already posted upwards of 50 messages telling you that we understand clearly that many of you hate the new design, and that many of you find it difficult to use. We�ve been over and over and over this point.

I think I've addressed dozens of issues and questions and I've brought back your negative feedback to the powers that be.

Now...


I've grown tired of the whining, I've grown tired of the trashing of the new owners of this site, and I've grown tired of violations of terms of use.

I will listen to any reasonably worded questions posed respectfully, but I will not continue to allow abuse of these forums. Many readers here have complained about the flaming and the negativity and they have just as much right as the complainers to make use of this forum.

I've also noticed that there is a handful of members who have gone beyond all reasonable boundaries of nettiquette. I've also noticed that a few have even attempted to sabotage these forums. All this is unacceptable.

So I'm issuing a final warning to those abusing the forums: Cut it out, or I will personally downgrade your membership and/or block your use of the forums, depending on the severity of the problem. Inappropriate threads will be removed without further comment.

Again, I don't mind criticism, but I do mind outright abuse.

I hope you get the point if this applies to you.

As some of you can see, we've begun to change our front page, based on your feedback.

This is nice to see, but the front page still looks very cluttered.

You've also noticed that the news was not updated till 11:00 ET. We will address this.

How has this been addressed? will we be seeing an early morning update as well? How bout a Saturday update like before?

I've grown tired of the whining, I've grown tired of the trashing of the new owners of this site, and I've grown tired of violations of terms of use.

Agreed. but I don;t think that trashing them would be a TOS since Trahsing them is just expressing our first ammendment. True that vulgar posts are inappropirate.

I will listen to any reasonably worded questions posed respectfully, but I will not continue to allow abuse of these forums. Many readers here have complained about the flaming and the negativity and they have just as much right as the complainers to make use of this forum.

You may listen to them but from some of the posts I have read from you they seem more than a bit arrogant. I do agree though that the many readers who have complained about the flaming and the negativity have just as much right to use this forum as well

So I'm issuing a final warning to those abusing the forums: Cut it out, or I will personally downgrade your membership and/or block your use of the forums, depending on the severity of the problem. Inappropriate threads will be removed without further comment.

That's a good way to keep the peace and have resonable conversation. Downgrading someone's membership to the forums? Firstly that is a bit dictatorial (I know I know this is your site and you can do WTF you want) But that is one way to lose not only readers to the alienate people who come here and are reasonable and rational. I am one of these people who doesn't post flames or things to this fora but these actions you want to take Seem more tha irrational and seem like a communist gov't wanting to supress what they don't like to hear or see.

[Misha]

This is a courtesy post to the members of the MacNN forums, all of whom I have an affinity towards and many of whom know me personally, be it directly or indirectly.

While NewsFactor Response is not labeled an admin, don't underestimate their ability to enforce any threats that they introduce or make any changes that they desire. Being labeled an "admin" is just a technicality.

As some of you have noted, I have abstained from this conversation (and any others on the forums) and will continue to do so.

Sorry guys...

[This message has been edited by Misha (edited 05-21-2001).]

[georgius]

NewsFactor Network: Imperious Maximus Dicatorship Rex.

Great...

------------------



11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

[Norm1985]

I would have to agree with everyone else here. The font size change is not nearly enough. I'd hate to say it, but even MacCentral is a lot better than this crap. What ever happened to that guy? I thought he was soposed to help us. I'll say this one more time, MacNN/MacNFN is dying thanks to NewsFactor Network and how much they care about us. Their own arrogance and stupidity by not following our concerns will lead them only downwards. All of you are destroying what is dear to me, the community we are a part of. I've made many friends including Albert, Cipher, and Georgius, I don't want this to end. You're making it end! Fix this now!

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[This message has been edited by Norm1985 (edited 05-21-2001).]

[georgius]

I have to agree with Norm. The font is no where near big enough on the front page.
MacCentral (that used to be nothing in comparison) is now leading the way.

Instead of being lead by their egos, MacCentral is at least providing a decent service.

NewsFactor isn't even trying hard enough...not in my view anyway.



------------------



11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

[ndpatel]

so....how many people have noticed that it's a lot easier for your eyes to totally ignore the banner ad columns now?

before, with misha's layout, the banner ads actually stood out, because they were not contiguously located in one spot. i've actually clicked through several times because the ads were placed such that they jarred the space--which is a good thing, for ads, cause that measn you're paying attention to them.

now, with the new layout, all the ads are vertically contiguous, and that means that my eye can see them, go "oh--ads" and completely miss them. seriously--i had to consciously make an effort to look at the ads before they registered.

so is it easier to ignore the ads now? or is it just me?

if so, NF Response, your layout does not achieve your primary goal of securing your advertisers space--in fact, it does a much worse job of it than the old macnn layout, which was spectacular in that regard.

[Demonhood]

georgius, Norm1985, please just quiet down for a little bit. We are all aware of your position. Repeating it again and again, using more red angry faces each time, helps no one.

NFN will make the changes, or they won't. The best we can do is give them our calm and outlined opinion, then sit back and wait. All you are currently doing is making the Lounge an unpleasant place to be by dominating it with this topic. Sure, it's important. But I'd like to be able to come here and read some threads without all of them deteriorating into a call for a boycott, or slams against NFN.

[Nimisys]

actually so far i like the new page beeter than the old one... but i got a few suggestions

1) the top ad banner ought to go beneath the Inside MacNN part...

2) the side banner needs to go on the oppisite part of the etxt, it makes the side link bar look too cluttered.

3) their needs to be a bit more of a visual distinction between the editons (perhaps something a la HardOCP)but it needs to be subtle and not distracting.

4) drop the market watch altogether it really has no purpose.

5)the catgaorise on the rught menu (not adds) should only list the catagories (tech news,top stories, cartoons ect) with the actual links bapearing in a drop down/rollover style window. this would give that otherwise clutterd bar a cleaner look.


i think the overall design is functional but those things would diffently clean it up some more.

[scaught]

Originally posted by NewsFactor Response:
I've grown tired of the whining, I've grown tired of the trashing of the new owners of this site, and I've grown tired of violations of terms of use.

so you (newsfactornetwork) purchased macnn. i imagine you purchased it because of its popularity, loyal readers, etc and thought of all the revenue you could be making from it once it was added in with the rest of the sites you manage. the site isnt the same as it once was. youre not going to keep those loyal readers around.

care to comment?

------------------
you're going to have my foot at your lip in a minute, young man.

scott

[georgius]

Originally posted by scaught:
so you (newsfactornetwork) purchased macnn. i imagine you purchased it because of its popularity, loyal readers, etc and thought of all the revenue you could be making from it once it was added in with the rest of the sites you manage. the site isnt the same as it once was. youre not going to keep those loyal readers around.

care to comment?

No, just to dictate and pretend to be listening.

------------------



11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.

[This message has been edited by georgius (edited 05-21-2001).]

[Dogma]

Why is Misha abstaining from this topic?
Why is the 'Newsfactor' guy so reluctant to make a clear commitment?
Why has MacNN sold itself to a corporate entity?
Why am really annoyed?

The new design sucks. I can't put it any plainer. I don't claim to be a great Web-designer, nor do I presume to know the reasons behind the MacNN teams silence on this issue, or in fact any issue over the past few days.
I have to point out to the 'designer' of the new site and the apparent 'new' editorial staff that this lack of comment is seriously affecting MacNNs credibility and reputation. If new users happen across these boards, or are even perusing many of the other macintosh forums out there, most will give this in-fighting board a wide berth.
I do not have a problem with MacNN being funded or ran by a larger entity, though as the current spate of 'Hot Topics' and poor performance during NFs first few days, we have to ask if this is going to go away, or is NewsFactor ultimately going to turn MacNN into a dull, restrictive punchbowl of old topics and hangers on.

All I want is a clear explanation, possibly on the front page, of what has happened to MacNN, where it is going, who is the editorial, and perhaps, just maybe a new mission statement.

I use the boards most every day, and contribute regularly, though thoughtfully. I would hate to see MacNN go down because of a simple misunderstanding, or narrowmindedness on anyones behalf.

I strongly suggest a user feedback form that you can use to determine the proportion of readers/users that want a different service than what is being currently provided. Hopefully any issues that can have been raised during the last few days can be resolved amiccably and without threats of 'banning', 'censorship' and 'boycotts'.

At worst, if these problems go unresolved, I strongly suggest the admins et al rip up their contract with NewsFactor and return to the old site, providing a debated redesign after a time.

Hopefully
Dogma
(one of the longest post I've ever done)

------------------
"If you can't stand the flames, get out of the bulletin board!"

[BRussell]

Is anyone else wondering: if we had switched from the current design to the old one, would the outrage at the design be the same? My guess is yes.

I think there are some problems with the column layout - the duplication on left and right sides clearly doesn't make sense. And ads are annoying, but part of the real world, and if it keeps them in business, it's fine with me. They're only slightly more prominent than they used to be.

I just really hope the guy doesn't come back. His threat to close down threads and look up IPs was a bad move, but totally understandable given what he's had to put up with here.

And does anyone wonder now why Apple doesn't talk to us on these boards?

[jholmes]

Yo guys - figure it out.

Misha now works for News Factor. It would be suicidal for him to express overt opinions on the design when NFN has ignored his excellent update of the original site. They bought the site and they will do with it what they will.
If we don't like it, mourn its passing and click on through to another site.

MacNN as we knew it is dead and gone. Holding your breath and turning blue isn't going to bring it back. We can ask and make suggestions as to what they do with their product, but that's it. And these guys have made some good faith gestures to appease the complaints. Subtle design changes were made over the weekend. Did you work this weekend?

Mr. Response Guy seems a reasonable sort especially in the face of being called everything but Bill Gates' love child. He's done a good job of dealing with the complaints and even implementing the reasonable suggestions. But I don't see any reason he should have to put up with a bunch of crap or make personal phone calls to explain corporate actions.

Deal with it.

And Misha - keep your head down.

[This message has been edited by jholmes (edited 05-21-2001).]

[foobars]

The "MacNN new look" thread was just deleted while I was reading it.

I guess this is the beggining...

[everdween]

this is such a ****ing shame. i don't even know where to begin to express my utter disguist with what's happening here. in any case, since mr. newsfactor is just another corporate machine, i'll take things in my own hands. i'm styling macnn to my own liking, with webfree [http://www.falken.net/webfree/]

from this:



to this:



if you won't change it, i certainly will.

it's better than nothing.

-m

[This message has been edited by everdween (edited 05-21-2001).]

[georgius]

So then NFresponse...where are you now?

Whaddya have to say? So then?



------------------



11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

[el matteo]

David,

First off, I do appreciate the time you've taken to attempt to provide some sort of response to all the feedback that's been offered in the past few days. I have read all of your many posts, even the ones that were nothing more than a verbatim copy of something you've said before. That being said, I must admit that I am less than thrilled with the way this has been handled.

As a graphic designer, one learns that the editor, the advertisers, the publisher, or the owner should never be allowed "final cut" on any design project, ever. Fundamentally, this is because without the support and approval of the viewers, all of the other links in the chain are totally irrelevant. It is obviously important for each party to have his say, but their opinion should not be taken as a golden imprimatur. Advertisers care nothing about content; advertisers dislike meaningful content. Advertisers want nothing more than for their ad to be the most important thing within the viewer's sight. While advertisers are your source of income, it is clear that they are unqualified to make judgements regarding the design of a site that they may be advertising on. It is ludicrous to suggest that any advertiser in Time magazine, for example, have any sort of control over how the site is laid out.

I do understand that the advertisers' approval is important. It is necessary to have advertising to provide a revenue stream that makes this site possible -- this is obvious and well understood. However, an advertisers' wishes, as important as they may believe them to be, can not and must not take priority over long standing rules of design and page layout. This is not something unique to MacNN. These are the kinds of issues that have been dealt with since the beginning of graphic design as an art form. Issues such as balance, grids, page color, visual heirarchy, and flow are not issues that could be cast aside for the purpose of giving advertisements a more promiment placement. By putting advertising squarely between two areas of content is not only bad from a design point of view, but of questionable ethics -- in this case, MacNN (and all of NewsFactor, frankly) is walking a thin line between advertising and content. Putting ads in the middle of the page certainly raises the question, "which is really more important to this organization?" If content is really secondary to advertising, why bother with content at all?

This leads me to my next concern. It is been made clear by your posts that senior management at NewsFactor has a tight grip on the art directors (assuming that there IS an art director) in your organization. If it was really as difficult a fight as you would have us believe to incorporate Misha's header into the design, it is undoubtable that the control management has over design is completely inappropriate. Managers are important because they know business. Designers are important because they know art. To insinuate that a manager should have control over every nuance of a designer's work simply because he has a fancier nameplate on his door is absurd. NewsFactor management would do well to employ a more egalitarian approach to the relationship between management, designers, and viewers (aka customers.

Effective public relations are an essential part of any organization. While I appreciate David's involvement, he might have been better served speaking through a p.r. officer. The way you repeatedly copied posts verbatim, without actually acknowledging the existence of additional concerns, or additional support for the already stated concerns, is troubling. Your guileful threatening of tookie with his moderator position was something I can't imagine anyone doing in private - much less airing the dirty laundry right out in public! It does not bode well for NewsFactor to show their contempt for "employees" (read: volunteers) who express divergent opinions. This only contributes to your fast-growing reputation as "Big Brother." My mouth literally dropped when I saw you putting words into tookie's hands, er, fingers(?) by insinuating he thought of NewsFactor as "evil" and that his "job" was in question, simply because he disagreed with you.

As vileful as your errors to date, it's not as though NewsFactor should give up hope on the ol' MacNN crowd. We are a forgiving bunch (hey, we're still Mac fans, aren't we?) and we respond well when we see that an organization sincerely appreciates our desires. After all, like someone said before, that's why we use Macs in the first place. I think I speak for most of us when I say that Mac users are Mac users because they can appreciate high quality and uniqueness. Neither of which have been characteristics of MacNN since the takeover and subsequent re-design by NewsFactor. I sincerely hope, for both your sake and ours, that you can turn this ship around while you still have viewers to take notice.

Sincerely,
Matteo

[foobars]

Originally posted by georgius:
So then NFresponse...where are you now?

Whaddya have to say? So then?

Honestly georgius you could do everyone a favor by just shutting the hell up. I don't care how insolent and young you are- your constant bitching is hurting MacNN more than anything else right now. Either come up with a solution to the problem or stop acting like such a moron. I hope NF bans you.

[mr. natural]

Originally posted by foobars:
The "MacNN new look" thread was just deleted while I was reading it.

I guess this is the beggining...

Hey foobars, I was right there with you when poof! Gone!

This may seem a bit heavy-handed by NFN, but then again, the response by a lot of folks is incredibly infantile. I don't come her to see accursed graffitti signatures splashed all over the place. And all just because they don't like the news page! Give it break.

[Nimisys]

how about this as a compramise:


still has the NFN stuffs and ought to give MacNN a cleaner fell to it.

[This message has been edited by Nimisys (edited 05-21-2001).]

[edoggie]

I find all this ranting about the new design to be completely STUPID. I come to MacNN (and other NewsFactor sites like OSOpinion) for their NEWS, not their web design. If you don't like the design, stop posting in MacNN's forums and find your Mac News somewhere else. I personally like the integration with other NewsFactor sites, it isn't a great web design but I don't really care that much as long as the information I get from MacNN is still the same, which seems to be the case. In this world of dot-com's closing shop, I applaud every effort MacNN is making in staying alive, it makes Good Business Sense to partner with NewsFactor. More power to them.

Thanks MacNN and NewsFactor for your understanding, I hope these other "MacNN readers" get a clue, get a life and leave you alone.

-Eric G.

[sek929]

Looks good dude.

I just hope the NFN looks past the foolishness and respects those who are contributing to the solution, not the ones who are detracting from anything constructive.

I'm just glad MacNN/NFN removed the stupid boycott threads.

You'd think from the general tone of people that NFN was trying to kill our first-borns or something.

Deep breaths people.....

------------------

[NewsFactor Response]

Reminder
---------

It's fine to post anything you'd like, but it's not ok to be abusive.

If you'd like to criticize, that's fine. Just please do it in a constructive manner.

Also, we already know that many of you hate the new design and that you're furious that the news is getting updated only by 11 am ET.

One more thing -

Please keep all posts regarding this issue on THIS thread.

There's no need to have dozens of separate threads all on the same topic.

Thank you.

[everdween]

edoggie,

are you still going to read your news sites when you're faced with a bright, blue background, and some awful red text? the problem is that the site has become uncomfortably hard to scan for news. the date headlines are too small -- i'm never sure if i'm reading yesterday's news or today's news, and i don't have a sense anymore when the site was last updated.

it has become a task to navigate macnn, and it's completely unfounded for. there's no reason at all. there are other ways to plaster macnn with advertisement, and still have a reasonable web design, but this is ridiculous.

but really, it comes down to the surfers. if people are less attracted to macnn, it won't hurt us, it'll hurt only the owners. there are many other mac sites out there, and while macnn used to be one of my favorites, it has slipped considerably.

[ndpatel]

so....edoggie.....
how long have you worked for newsfactor?
or didja just get tired of that 'newsfactor response' handle?

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by sek929:
Looks good dude.

I just hope the NFN looks past the foolishness and respects those who are contributing to the solution, not the ones who are detracting from anything constructive.

I'm just glad MacNN/NFN removed the stupid boycott threads.

You'd think from the general tone of people that NFN was trying to kill our first-borns or something.

Deep breaths people.....

Muchly appreciated.

hey... is "muchly" a real word?

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by everdween:

it has become a task to navigate macnn, and it's completely unfounded for.

Hard to navigate? what is confusing you?

[DeepDish]

Hey "NewsFactor Response" is now an "Administrator" with the power to delete my topics. Why don't you ban my IP also.

What I said in my topic was not rude, dishonest, or distasteful, but you didn't like it. Boo Hoo. It is called a forum. But NO, Mr. NewsFactor Responce is now for censorship also. Censorship is fine for lies and profanity, but not for thin skin.

[Nimisys]

actually i found the first one more difficult... either way i think there are too many links... it needs simplified down some more. the constant gray-blue-gray in the text becomes distracting, which detracts from the reading experience

[mr. natural]

Wow! Anybody else checked out how many folks are suddenly cruising the boards here?

You'd think there was a office tower on fire or something!

Now, if only we could hear the sirens ... lol

[el matteo]

Aye, I'm out of line...no more beatings, please!

[This message has been edited by the boogieman (edited 05-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by el matteo (edited 05-21-2001).]

[Nimisys]

man i don't know what you guys are bitching about... the mods here are pretty laid back an easy... trying going to the [H]ard|Forum and takin on those mods... hell they will change your title, lock the post, delete posts just because they can. and the owner sems to take personall delite in doing so. if NFN owns MAcNN now, then they also own the board... whch means they are the gods, that even the Mods must answer to. i suggest a little more respect for them.

[This message has been edited by Nimisys (edited 05-21-2001).]

[Zwilnik]

> Hard to navigate? what is confusing you?


Well, finding up to date news is difficult for one

(edit, oops, lots of posts going on at once)

[This message has been edited by Zwilnik (edited 05-21-2001).]

[Arlo]

<heresy>
Ok, I was not too thrilled with the new design at first, and frankly I'm still not overwhelmed by it. I am as guilty as many others in having a knee-jerk reaction to the redesign. However, this was based an an essentially static page that wasn't significantly updated until today. And already it's slightly better.

We would all be wise to visit MacNN for a week or so, using it as we always had. Let a full news cycle go through the design to really get a feel for how it works and feels. After all, I bet we're some of the same people who threw hissy-fits when Mac OS X was first revealed...
</heresy>

Arlo

[sek929]

UH-OH there goes the neighborhood....hehe just kidding.

Although I do see this to be a bold move here (intimidation anyone?)

As for the navigation, it is more difficult than before, the old layout was VERY straighforward, now your eyes are driftiing all over the place. Whis NFN prob likes cuz they drift into the ads.

Once again just my 2�

------------------


[This message has been edited by sek929 (edited 05-21-2001).]

[NewsFactor Response]

I have no desire to be heavy handed. I don't like the whole concept of censorship at all, but there are limits.

Now, I've let more than 280 messages be posted here, mostly critical of my company, but when I see threads that are harming the enjoyment of other members, then it's time to act.

Again, if you have something to say, fine, get it out. But don't abuse.

[dfiler]

Its amazing how many web sites are ruined by new and improved designs. This seems like the whole MacWorld or Macledge fiasco all over again. Hopefully, the people in charge at MacNN are reading these posts... Does anyone still read MacWorld since they went fully soft-copied and came up with a new web design? I don't.

The new MacNN has so many things wrong with it that analyzing any particular one wouldn't be too fruitful. I would suggest scrapping the new look and starting from scratch. I hate to denigrate anyone else's work, but MacNN used to be my favorite Mac news outlet. Please hire someone else! With so many flaws, its obvious that they are inexperienced, unskilled, or lazy.

Not being one to just drop flame bait, here's an itemized list off the top of my head. I'm serious about this! I want to keep visiting MacNN for my daily Mac news.

------------------------

- The page is _way_ too long for a top level news page which people mostly peruse for items of interest. Can this designer pronounce modem?

- There should be a maximum width. Empirical studies have shown that people have more difficulty scanning to the beginning of the next line as the words per line ratio increases. With no maximum width, I have to resize my window solely for MacNN (or visit another site)

- Multiple horizontal menu bars at the top of the page eat up the prime (top most) real-estate. I immediately have to scroll after loading the main page. Studies also show that most people don't bother scrolling if they don't see what they want right away.

- The text is smaller than standard, pissing off anyone who tries to always display text at a preferred size.

- Headlines don't link to a stories!

- Since headlines aren't links, I must now hover above links in the short blurbs to discover if they are actual stories or links to a product-hawking-web-page. Is this just a link to apple's advertisement or a story telling me about what they advertise.

- What's with the red text "Top Stories for Monday"... ? Why is the date the only red text on this page? Thought should be given to a consistent color scheme. Also, people at least subconsciously associate colors with feelings or categories... Guess what red means.

- Why use two lines for this instead of one? "Last Updated 4:50 PM" and " Top Stories for Monday, May 21" should be combined into one line of larger text: "Top Stories for Monday, May 21st (4:50pm update)

- Is this local time? Why not time stamp each story instead of providing people with a last updated figure?

- The Inside MacNN gray, horizontal menu bar uses a very low contrast between the light gray foreground text and background white... Say goodbye to readers with poor vision of washed out monitors.

- Those 3 dots at the end of some blurbs; what do they mean? If they don't do anything other than clutter the page, get rid of them. Why are three dots placed before the gray date in the right most column?

- The page is visually clumsy or unbalanced. The content I'm reading is on the left half while the scroll bar is on the right side of the window. It seems to me like someone goofed and the Today,Search,Market Watch, and MacNN News headline column should be on the left side of the text with the advertisements to the right. Right now its like trying to read a book where the text is only on the left side of each page!

- On a similar note: Margins! give us margins! MacOS X doesn't have window borders and the text seems like its about to fall off the left side of the window.

---------------------------

Most of my comments are at least partially subjective. However, I didn't make them to convince people on a piecemeal basis. The shear number of problems should be an indication that a new web designer/developer is sorely needed. Not everyone can be accommodated by a single site design. Yet, this design makes so many fundamental mistakes that it makes me think that the web site was developed by amateurs with little experience and no formal education.

Please return to the old look or hire someone else!

darrin

[foobars]

Originally posted by NewsFactor Response:
Reminder
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It's fine to post anything you'd like, but it's not ok to be abusive.

If you'd like to criticize, that's fine. Just please do it in a constructive manner.

Also, we already know that many of you hate the new design and that you're furious that the news is getting updated only by 11 am ET.

One more thing -

Please keep all posts regarding this issue on THIS thread.

There's no need to have dozens of separate threads all on the same topic.

Thank you.

Hey NF- here's some constructive criticism- LEARN HOW TO MODERATE.

Looks to me like you have administrator powers for a half an hour and what's the first thing you do? Delete at least 4 threads and ban a bunch of users. Good job. Shows how little you know about the MacNN community. We don't respond well to heavy handed administration and deletion is a NO NO. Did you think we wouldn�t notice? CLOSE THREADS. Deletion screws with the UBB database and could result in the loss of the entire board. Now I'm sure you wouldn�t mind that but some of us would. If you're going to throw your weight around at least do it in a responsible way. Your earlier comment about lowering user rating shows just how little you know about how the board works. Maybe you should read the manual before you go ruining someone�s day.

Hey ban me if you want- but remember this is my opinion. I've been reading MacNN for no less than 3 years and have been a proud member of the board for almost two (this is my second username). Every day I really do enjoy offering support in the OSX forms and reading what people have to say here in the Lounge. Never, ever have I been so pissed off at the behavior of one of the members as I am at you right now for your actions. And no, I'm not talking about NF- I'm referring to YOUR actions.

[DeepDish]

Mr. NFR wrote:
Now, I've let more than 280 messages be posted here, mostly critical of my company, but when I see threads that are harming the enjoyment of other members, then it's time to act.

Hey, my topic had two whole postings before it got censored. And I repeat, it was not rude, dishonest or distasteful. No bad language, just my opinion as a long time read, new poster to MacNN.

Yes, it is censorship!

[everdween]

Hard to navigate? what is confusing you?

hard to navigate in the sense that when i scan for news [with the new design], i find myself confused. i especially dislike the seperations between updates; i used to be able to quickly scan for the latest updates on macnn, but now i have to look at tiny, red text to help me differentiate news items. there should be a huge seperation between yesterday's news and today's news, but that just doesn't exist anymore!

i think the point of a graphical interface, as on this site, is to be as transparant to the reader as possible. and while i welcome the tiny changes you've made (and they do help), there continue to be hinderances that keep me from efficiently reading macnn.

in addition to it being difficult to quickly grab the latest update:

--> i don't understand the purpose of the "macnn news" collumn on the very right side. when i look at it, i see giberish. i can't decide whether the news are old, new, or what purpose they are for, because they apparantly simply mirror the headlines on the right side, only in a more cramped style. it's a waste of precious space.

--> beneath on the right collumn, there is a "top tech news" section. why are the "full story" tags in a larger, bolder font character than the actual headline. when i scan that section, all i see is full story, full story -- you should think about why you bold-faced the lesser important item.

--> i don't understand what this tag is supposed to signify after some news stories:

all in all, the site is too cramped, and busy. as a photographer and graphic designer, a big no-no is a busy image, one where the eye isn't able to target anything, and finds him/herself lost.

[This message has been edited by everdween (edited 05-21-2001).]

[Cipher13]

NEWSFACTOR:

You have overstepped your bounds by banning members and deleting threads. You will cease this action now, or I gaurantee you, you will pay.

Do not underestimate us.



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AIM: Cipher1387
ICQ: 48111606
mail: [email protected]

[DeepDish]

Hey Cipher13, be careful, you will get banned saying those things. I don't care if I get banned. I have never posted before today. Been a long time reader though. You are too valuable to get banned.

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by foobars:
And no, I'm not talking about NF- I'm referring to YOUR actions.[/B]

That's fine.

I spent half my weekend posting message after message to address the concerns of members here. As you can see, I've put in my time and best effort.

I've dealt with some reasonable input from readers, and I've dealt with abuse, but at this point, I've reached the limit because other members are complaining about the flames.

Also, if we've reached the end of the line for new issues to be discussed, I'll close this thread.

So, anyone with NEW issues that have not yet been addressed, please ask now.

[sek929]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
NEWSFACTOR:

You have overstepped your bounds by banning members and deleting threads. You will cease this action now, or I gaurantee you, you will pay.

Do not underestimate us.

Sh!t, I can't believe he actually banned somebody, and I was trying to get people to trust this guy a little.

Sorry Folks, I haven't sold out.....really Newsboy don't abuse the power, maybe on stupid OsOpinion this was the norm. but your on MacNN now, don't be a di*k.



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[Nimisys]

Originally posted by dfiler:
- What's with the red text "Top Stories for Monday"... ? Why is the date the only red text on this page? Thought should be given to a consistent color scheme. Also, people at least subconsciously associate colors with feelings or categories... Guess what red means.

- Why use two lines for this instead of one? "Last Updated 4:50 PM" and " Top Stories for Monday, May 21" should be combined into one line of larger text: "Top Stories for Monday, May 21st (4:50pm update)

those two seem directed to me.. so i'll answer...

i only used red since it stood out and allowed you to quickly realize what edition it is... your right it doesn't fit in the color scheme, but if it were blue it would conufse the headlines... yellow and it would wash out, same with black. so i choose red for the contrast... it can be changed... minor detail.

as for the bkgrnd it has, i wanted something subtle that would blend in, but still provide an easy refernce... perhaps something similar to OSX bubbles would be better, either way i did it in paint and i don't have the abilities to cvreate the bubbles. let an artist with talent do that. i was merely suggesting it.

your right about the update part... just wanted to stash it somewhere...

i was thining about switching the ads, side bar, but i figure swiching it would make it look like a PC page (i know you guys don't want that) and the chace of clicking the adds on mistake increase, something else you don't want.

i was also thunking about pushing up the Inside MAcnn part, but i got too lazy.

the image was merely suggesting a concept

[ajprice]

Whoa, what a thread. I've just spent the last hour reading this.

[rant] There are some mightily narked off people around here. I wasn't happy when the site changed, and I'm still not over the moon with it, but some of the people here should sit down, breath deeply and think of fluffy bunnies for a while. C'mon guys, it's a website. Go to Google, search for something, it will probably say it has found a million or more sites, MacNN is one site, get some perspective. [/rant]

Mr NewsFactor,

It's good that there is someone here to be the face of what seems to be "The Enemy" at the moment. I am worried about some of the things said though, like saying you (Newsfactor) did not intend to make a Mona Lisa of the site, and that the company's #1 priority is to keep the advertisers happy. OK, I work as a designer so I probably am biased, but it is possible to make a site that contains adverts AND looks good. I will try to say what I don't like a bit more constructively than "it's horrible".

The main headlines are in Times font on my Mac and on every screenshot I've seen here, the subheadings aren't (on my Mac the headings are Times and everything else is Verdana, as far as consistency goes, this isn't a good start). The ad column contains maybe 3 ads, the rest is white space (yes, I know this one's been said before), this makes the news column much narrower than the previous site.

Mac people are very precious, proud and patriotic to the Mac cause, anything that takes away our Mac-ness gets us really narked (as you probably now realise more than you ever did, there's nothing like personal experience!), putting the Microsoft share price above the Apple share price is asking for trouble really.

The quote with my sig is from Mark & Lard on Radio 1, who you have probably never heard of, but it's a joke, not abuse.

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"Yer a poo chute Newsfactor, a poo chute!"