[smacintush]

<rant>
I am so sick of hearing about the stupid Apple Menu!! Can't you people let it go?
The reason, THE ONLY REASON you people can't let the Apple Menu die is you are so used to it!

Why the Apple Menu works:

1. Hierarchal menu

2. Access from every application

3. Customizable

Why it is bad:

1. Not clear what it is. An apple? How is a novice supposed to know what it is? Nevermind the fact that it is a butt-ugly icon.

2. Has been nothing but a catch all for the extra crap Apple didn't know what to do with.

3. How do you add items? I know how to do it but how is a novice supposed to figure it out? Making an alias and putting it in a folder THREE levels deep is a bunch of crap! PERIOD! That "add alias to apple menu" applescript is a lame patch for a poorly designed widgit.

4. Organization. What organization? Futzing with the name of an item is a stupid way to organize something and is not flexible enough. If it weren't for BeHierarchic I would never add anything to it.

While 4 to 3 isn't a landslide victory in a numerical sense, the reasons it is bad outweigh the good IMHO.

If it is to be put back in MacOS than it must:

1. Have a sensible name. "Apple Menu" is totally lame and makes no sense.

2. Either make it a text menu or make it switchable to an icon like the App menu in OS X.

3. How about a system of organization? That would be nice. Perhaps a one click accessed panel that you can use to organize everything. Or even the ability to tear it off so that you can rearrange it. Alphabetical order should be an option. How about this option: the most frequently used items autmatically go to the top.

4. Drag and Drop in a menu? That would be cool. Drag an item to the menu and it opens so that you can drop it right where you want it.

5. Optional icons next to the names in the menu.

6. It should have NO pre-installed garbage in it by default. It should be strictly for our stuff.

Then, and only then can anything like an "Apple Menu" be worth a darn. Otherwise it can be canned.

Apple if you're listening, SOME of us are willing to accept radical change�as long as it works well.
</rant>

I post this because so many people are whining to get the Apple Menu back but they are forgetting that it is flawed. If you want it back, give Apple ideas on how to improve it.

------------------
Believe me, I'm always
right. Unless I'm
mistaken.

[This message has been edited by smacintush (edited 09-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by smacintush (edited 09-20-2000).]

[Scott_H]

You bring up some good points about the "bad" part of the Apple Menu. I've read many counter arguments that say all of those thing could be addressed in OS X. That would make the Apple Menu a easy to use tool even for newbies.

For me persaonlly I use the Apple Meny as an app launcher and an app switcher. Somehow I got into the bad(?) habit of using it to switch apps. It's not so bad because if the app is not running then it launches and if it is running it comes to the front.

So for me and the way I use the Apple Menu The Dock is a better way to work.

I agree that the Apple menu has flaws. So does the Dock. It is completely incapable of replacing the control strip, Apple menu, and App. menu.

Right now, I have 35 items in my Apple menu. I have 8 applications open -- one of them (a text editor) with 12 files open (I program). Under these conditions, the dock looks, and seems to work, like **** . And this doesn't even account for my control strip.

I realize that there can be different tools to accomplish these same tasks -- but right now, the Dock is NOT it (IMHO).

Apple needs to reengineer the Dock to make it more focused. Right now it is trying to do too much.

Many people have said this over and over again. And get "Think Different" screamed back at us. I am a Macintosh Loyalist. Don't give me that crap.

One of the things i like about the apple menu is that its un-obtrusive. Doesnt invade on my screen/menu bar real-estate, but its always there that i can acess my stuff that i have there.

I think in apple's quest to make a "new/different" os, they have ruled out the things that are already very good if not perfect. I'm not saying the apple menu, its just a general statement.

Also, so what if the "newbie" user cant figue out the ENTIRE os at a glance. Isnt that what using a computer is about? Learning to use it so you can take advaqntage of the more powerful features?

Some of the changes kind of insults my intelligence, in that it assumes i (the computer user) am an idiot and i am incapable of learning/getting used to a particular part of the os. Once a user LEARNS what something is for, they can then take advantage of it. They dont HAVE to know at first glance.

Icons for menus, can be very convienient. They dont have to be text all the time. I am not an idiot, i can associate an icon to its function once i know/learn what that it.

[Orbit]

Sure, I know that 3rd party solutions are frowned upon as replacements for "weak" built-in interface elements, but for those of us who remember when the Apple Menu wasn't hierarchal, this doesn't come as such a surprise. Try a Drop Drawers for OS X from Sig Software. It can show all running apps, store shortcuts to any folders or files (including applications) and can also allow you to list folder contents hierarchically.

Like I said before, people may not see this as a viable alternative because Apple didn't include it as basic functionality, but third party interface elements have always picked up the slack where Apple failed to deliver. The hierarchal Apple menu was implemented as shareware long before
Apple did it themselves. Add to that the fact that the Dock is just another application which doesn't relaunch after being quit, the field is opened up to many 3rd party reworkings of the Dock. If Apple sees innovative interface concepts come from a 3rd party which are widely adopted, chances are they'll integrate that functionality into new versions of the OS.

[ndpatel]

the BEST thing about the apple menu, IMHO, is the easy access to control panels. need to switch tcp/ip setting from ethernet to PPP? you're at the control panel in one click. in os x, you have spend at least three (more if you've moved the prefs app out of the dock)---which, in comparison to any other OS, is fantastic, but not when stacked up against os 9.

i say bring the apple menu back, along with the control strip, pop-up windows and windowshade. the app switcher i can live without--the dock does that better than a menu.

this would all be okay if not for that stupid apple at the center of the screen, taunting me every time i boot os x.