[besson3c]

Apple modifies existing open source projects

Apple has modified tools like rsync to add OS X metadata support, and has added an Apache module to allow case insensitivity. They need to provide a mechanism for people to update Apple provided pieces, and regular system updates will not cut it in the interest of security/timing, particularly for servers.

Security

Many of the Apple provided open source pieces fall out-of-date, and many are never updated even in Apple software updates. There should be a mechanism where advanced users can update these pieces for those that want and/or need an update

Better access to X11 software

If more stuff compiled cleanly without incident, there would probably be more port maintainers as well as package maintainers. Where there are more package maintainers, there are easy installs and updates of all open source software - be it OS X client only (e.g. Cyberduck), cross platform (e.g. VLC), or server related (MySQL, PHP, etc.). Many of this projects include their own software update mechanisms, but not all of them do.

This could also lead to easy installs of some titles that have rarely seen the light of day on an OS X machine, thereby giving users more software choices. Obviously Mac ports of OSS titles are desirable, but some projects do not offer OS X ports at all, and others offer weak ports that perpetually lag behind.

Where there are more OSS choices, there are inexpensive options for small businesses or consumers that may not want to shell out $20-40 for some tool they may only run once or twice or very rarely need.

Thinking even bigger

This sort of infrastructure could be eventually built upon to accomplish something even bigger that I've always desired: a system wide software update mechanism for all third party software. There is nothing stopping providing updates of commercial and non-commercial software updates in the form of packages.

How this would work

- a repository for advanced users to browse through containing pre-built OSS software titles

- once a title has been installed this way, provide an option to add updates to the main OS X Software Update mechanism.

[Chuckit]

Why Apple doesn't need to do this:
• Because almost nobody cares about OSS on the Mac

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Why Apple doesn't need to do this:
• Because almost nobody cares about OSS on the Mac

How Apple should limit their growth

Maintain the status quo, catering only to their established base and avoid branching out to new ones

How, if nothing more Apple could make OS X Server a more viable player to larger business

Do what I'm describing

How to make people care a little more about OSS

Do what I'm describing

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How Apple should limit their growth

Maintain the status quo

Yeah, the status quo is really sucking for Apple. So little growth. In Opposite World.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How to make people care a little more about OSS

Make it not suck aside from, like, Apache and two other programs

Fixed. Commercial software obviously doesn't need a special prop-up like this. If you want people to care about something, make it worth caring about.

[besson3c]

Chuckit: you really live a sheltered life as far as computing goes. Wake up, there is all sorts of **** going on outside of Mac land. In fact, it could be argued that the most total innovation in the industry as a whole is coming from OSS.

[Chuckit]

Since we're talking about Mac-land, my sheltered Mac perspective is much better than your view from the trenches of the OSS Wars.

BTW: Innovation != good software. Microsoft Bob was certainly innovative.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Since we're talking about Mac-land, my sheltered Mac perspective is much better than your view from the trenches of the OSS Wars.

BTW: Innovation != good software. Microsoft Bob was certainly innovative.

Your view from Mac land is limited. There is all sorts of computing that are going on that OS X need not be excluded from:

- research/high performance computing
- server infrastructure (web, email, load balancing, database, DNS, DHCP, etc.)
- embedded devices
- low cost computing in developing countries, education, government
- Google technologies
- network appliances

Now, don't start picking apart this list before putting it into context... I'm not saying that Apple is or should be a part of any of these areas, I'm just listing areas of computing in which Linux and OSS is a big part of, and Apple could someday enter.

I know that at Apple's core is none of these things I've listed, but there are many client side applications that could run nicely on the Mac to complement any of these uses, and even some Desktop Linux stuff that might be of interest to the general Mac community.

What I'm proposing could go a long way in expanding the environments in which you'd be likely to find a Mac. Yes, Apple is doing well right now, but they are targeting the general consumer crowd. This has been a successful strategy for them and should continue to be so. However, at some point many people, including myself, would like to see Apple branch out a little more.

[ndptal85]

You're a bit of a spaz man.

In any case Apple didn't build the Apple Stores to cater to OSS folks. Chuckit is right when he says no one cares about OSS on the Mac. Apple just flat out isn't catering to Linux type folks.

Just let it go.

[besson3c]

I'm not spazing, I'm quite at ease with all of this, just passionate. I'm not making demands, I'm not whining, I'm merely expressing my opinion as to what Apple ought to do if they wish to expand upon their demographic. If you've taken a business course you'll know that finding new markets are a key to growth. If you disagree with the notion that Apple should be expanding into new markets, I guess this discussion ends here, but I feel that there will be a time when it will be in Apple's best interests to go beyond the home consumer crowd.

I also disagree that nobody cares about OSS, there are plenty of developer-type folk that do, they just don't hang out among the Mac graphic designer crowd as a tendency.

[ndptal85]

I agree Apple will at some point need to expand into new markets but seeing as how they're only 8% in the US and still around 2% worldwide, pursuing the "thousands and thousands" of OSS users who are currently using Linux just doesn't seem to be where they should be directing their energies right now. When Dell which has begun offering Ubuntu laptops, starts ringing up even half a billion dollars in revenue from the program, then Apple will take notice. As of right now people who use OSS/Linux on the desktop aren't a demographic. They're a rounding error.

Do note however that Apple already is active in the OSS arena. Its just not a core focus. They update projects when they can. Its just Apple is stretched thin right now with developer resources. They had to pull people off of the Leopard project to get the iPhone out on time and then scramble to get updates to Leopard out when it finally came out. They've bought a bunch of land they haven't even put buildings on yet so its going to be some time before Apple is able to beef up its developer corps to the level it really needs to be at. I just don't see how inside Apple right now you win the argument of "We really need more people working with the Fink/MacPorts guys" when there's Final Cut Pro, Shake, Motion, iTunes, OS X, iPhone, iPods, GarageBand, iMovie, Mail.....etc and all of the other software Apple has to work on.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ndptal85 

I agree Apple will at some point need to expand into new markets but seeing as how they're only 8% in the US and still around 2% worldwide, pursuing the "thousands and thousands" of OSS users who are currently using Linux just doesn't seem to be where they should be directing their energies right now. When Dell which has begun offering Ubuntu laptops, starts ringing up even half a billion dollars in revenue from the program, then Apple will take notice. As of right now people who use OSS/Linux on the desktop aren't a demographic. They're a rounding error.

Do note however that Apple already is active in the OSS arena. Its just not a core focus. They update projects when they can. Its just Apple is stretched thin right now with developer resources. They had to pull people off of the Leopard project to get the iPhone out on time and then scramble to get updates to Leopard out when it finally came out. They've bought a bunch of land they haven't even put buildings on yet so its going to be some time before Apple is able to beef up its developer corps to the level it really needs to be at. I just don't see how inside Apple right now you win the argument of "We really need more people working with the Fink/MacPorts guys" when there's Final Cut Pro, Shake, Motion, iTunes, OS X, iPhone, iPods, GarageBand, iMovie, Mail.....etc and all of the other software Apple has to work on.

It sounds like we fundamentally agree then, it's just a question of timing.

However, I think you have to look at this differently than just looking at national (or even international) marketshare, but how Apple does in particular areas of computing and what sort of net gains there would be if Apple were to increase their market penetration into these areas. As we have seen, when a product does well in a new market it often grows. While these numbers may not make a big difference today, a seed has been planted which may make a difference tomorrow.

For instance, this is a big hypothetical and not terribly realistic, but say Apple becomes the premiere server manufacturer on the market and OS X Server the premiere server OS... This means that systems are built around OS X, and if OS X makes a good client OS for the business, it is likely that this will trickle down and the workstations in this company adopt OS X. It is possible that this will spread into the homes of these employees, and so on...