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hamiltondj · Jun 3, 2002, 09:47 AM

Anybody know anything about stats or comparisons of a 667 DVI Ti and an ibook 700?

Carl Norum · Jun 3, 2002, 11:22 AM

All of the applicable technical specifications are available from <a href="http://www.apple.com" target="_blank">Apple</a>. If you're asking about which one is faster, better, stronger, higher, etc, the answer is unequivocably the PowerBook.

The PowerBook has a 133 MHZ bus with a 5x bus multiplier (the magic number), and the iBook has a 100 MHz bus with a 7x multiplier. All that just means that the powerbook, in addition to having a faster bus, also has more efficient disk usage, memory usage, etc. etc. etc.

Not to mention that you can put a 12.5 mm drive into a PowerBook but not into an iBook, making way for the only 60 GB 5400 RPM drive available right now.

There is also the possibility of putting almost twice as much RAM into a PowerBook as into an iBook (1 GB vs. 640 MB).

And the video card - 32 MB is a lot more than 16 MB, especially if you're running an external monitor or you want to play intense modern video games (NetHack will run just as well on both).

hamiltondj · Jun 3, 2002, 11:52 AM

I agree that the Ti 667 DVI is a better workhorse than the 700 ibook. What I was looking for was comparisions of the 2 doing different tasks.

For example, if I wanted to edit video, the clear choice would be the poerbook for a lot of reasons. And I suspect the data I'm looking for would spell that out.

But, what about for general purpose use? Is there a significant difference between the 2 running OS X? Jaguar? Web Browsing? Appleworks scroll?

In short, for general purpose users, does the powerbook outclass the ibook? And if so, if it such a performance difference to justify the extra $1000 (exluding the bigger screen and the PC card support)

Carl Norum · Jun 3, 2002, 12:12 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by hamiltondj:
In short, for general purpose users, does the powerbook outclass the ibook? And if so, if it such a performance difference to justify the extra $1000 (exluding the bigger screen and the PC card support)<hr /></blockquote>The PowerBook is a better computer. Period. Saying that you want it to be worth $1000 more than the iBook and then to exclude some features from the comparison makes that comparison meaningless. The PowerBook has 40% more screen real estate. It comes with a bigger hard drive. It comes with more RAM. It has a better video card. That's basically all there is to it.

For any user, the PowerBook will be faster. I can think of no tasks at which they would have similar speed limits except for one - the CD burners in both machines are the same speed.

jtc · Jun 3, 2002, 12:34 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Carl Norum:

Not to mention that you can put a 12.5 mm drive into a PowerBook but not into an iBook, making way for the only 60 GB 5400 RPM drive available right now.
<hr /></blockquote>Both IBM and toshiba have 40 GB 5400 RPM drives with an 8 MB cache that will fit in the iBook. They should be as fast (or almost as fast) as the 60 GB 5400 RPM model.

Carl Norum · Jun 3, 2002, 01:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jtc:
Both IBM and toshiba have 40 GB 5400 RPM drives with an 8 MB cache that will fit in the iBook. They should be as fast (or almost as fast) as the 60 GB 5400 RPM model.<hr /></blockquote>Oh - absolutely. But 40 GB != 60 GB. I haven't even seen a press release about a 40 GB 5400 RPM drive from IBM. I have also yet to see the toshiba model for sale, though the press release has been sitting on their web page for some time. They would certainly be as fast as the 60 GB travelstar, but they're not as high-capacity.

[ 06-03-2002, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Carl Norum ]

bobrocke · Jun 3, 2002, 04:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Carl Norum:
For any user, the PowerBook will be faster. I can think of no tasks at which they would have similar speed limits except for one - the CD burners in both machines are the same speed.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>This is, of course, true on the face of it.

The real question is about value - for a given use, will there be $1,000 of extra value in the TiBook? So the intended use is important to know.

If that use was web browsing, email and light word processing, a case could be made that the TiBook was not worht the extra money.

jules · Jun 3, 2002, 06:16 PM

What a stupid thread....

hamiltondj · Jun 3, 2002, 06:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by bobrocke:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Carl Norum:
For any user, the PowerBook will be faster. I can think of no tasks at which they would have similar speed limits except for one - the CD burners in both machines are the same speed.<hr /></blockquote>This is, of course, true on the face of it.

The real question is about value - for a given use, will there be $1,000 of extra value in the TiBook? So the intended use is important to know.

If that use was web browsing, email and light word processing, a case could be made that the TiBook was not worht the extra money.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Exactly! What I am looking for is some benchmarks comparing the two machines doing these tasks. For me (YMMV), if there is only a 20-30% bump in performance then its probably not worth the $1000.

murbot · Jun 3, 2002, 09:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The real question is about value - for a given use, will there be $1,000 of extra value in the TiBook? So the intended use is important to know.
If that use was web browsing, email and light word processing, a case could be made that the TiBook was not worht the extra money.<hr /></blockquote>The point is that you can't just make a blanket statement whether something is "worth it" or not. What is worth it to you might not be worth it to someone else, and vice versa.

If someone uses the internet alot, sends and receives tons of email daily, and spends tons of time in Word and Excel, and the cost of the PowerBook isn't going to bother them (read - not going on a credit card

), you could still make a good case for them buying a PowerBook. Much larger display, nicer keyboard, 60 GB hard drive if they want. Some people would buy it just for the nice big display if they're going to use it for hours a day - they might put that ahead of the performance and hard drive space. Or hey, if you spend 5 days a week on a plane or a bus - of course the iBook is probably better.

You can't say either is better or worse, or if one is a better value than the other. What you are going to do with it, what you expect from it, what your budget is - these things all have to be considered before you decide which to get - and if it's "worth it".

[ 06-03-2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: murbot ]

lextek · Jun 3, 2002, 09:29 PM

If you want to use Airport the iBook blows the TiBook away. I had the new TiBook and was shocked how poor the range was. The TiBook is awesome in every other way. I exchanged the Ti for a 700 combo iBook. It is very, good general use laptop. Great for surfing, iTunes rips CD quickly and photos are transfered pretty quick. It's no Ti, but damn good.

bobrocke · Jun 4, 2002, 08:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by murbot:
You can't say either is better or worse, or if one is a better value than the other. What you are going to do with it, what you expect from it, what your budget is - these things all have to be considered before you decide which to get - and if it's "worth it".<hr /></blockquote>Of course. Value is something different than price - one is subjective the other objective.

Comparing the iBook and TiBook on things such as screen size, hard drive capacity, RAM capacity, physical dimensions, etc. is fairly easy to do and one can make a judgement on their value.

What's tough is the performance comparison and here we enter the murky underworld of benchmarking. Has anyone seen any real world task performance benchmarks for the 700 MHz iBook yet? Clearly the TiBook will perform better on the full range of possible computer tasks due to its superior system bus speed, cache arrangement, processor enhancements, video sub-system and the like. But we know that in some tasks the G3 is as fast as the G4 at the same clock speed.

I'm hoping something shows up on Bare Feats (www.barefeats.com) soon as he does a wonderful job there.

hamiltondj · Jun 4, 2002, 10:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by bobrocke:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by murbot:
[qb]

What's tough is the performance comparison and here we enter the murky underworld of benchmarking. Has anyone seen any real world task performance benchmarks for the 700 MHz iBook yet? Clearly the TiBook will perform better on the full range of possible computer tasks due to its superior system bus speed, cache arrangement, processor enhancements, video sub-system and the like. But we know that in some tasks the G3 is as fast as the G4 at the same clock speed.

I'm hoping something shows up on Bare Feats (www.barefeats.com) soon as he does a wonderful job there.<hr /></blockquote>Which is exactly the purpose of my original post. Everyone will make a different judgemenmt based on the size of the screen, expandability, etc. But my argumment is this : I'm not using altivec enhanced apps and am just a Joe Smith OS X User (MS office, Apple works, email & web surfing)how do the 700 Mhz ibook and 667 mhz Powerbook compare? If in these areas the ibook is just as good as a Powerbook then for Joe Smith, the ibook may be the better machine.

To answer this we need benchmarks combined with user experience (since benchmarks generally tell only part of the story - someone needs to give their opinion on how the use of a machine "feels").

I can't find any benchmarks comparing the 2 - does anyone have any? And, has anyone used both machines and can offer a comparison based on the criteria (admittedly narrow) outlined?

Leon van Schie · Jun 4, 2002, 11:21 AM

If you are Joe X, go for the iBook and save your self one set of boiled ball�s and a pile of $$$ For those tasks the iBook is more than sufficient!

imaginet · Jun 4, 2002, 03:25 PM

iBook 700 Benchmarks and User Experience

At the Apple Store, I tested & reported Testbench X results last week. (posted from another thread you may have missed)

(Final Aggregate Results) the base machine is a 400mhz G4 running mac os 9.

iBook 700/100 (256 mb ram)
Integer - 118.2%
Floating Point - 83.1%
Cache - 60.4%

TiBook 667 DVI (768 mb ram) Thanks to Macrat:
Integer - 148.1%
FP - 103.4%
Cache - 111.5%

User Experience "how it feels" - They didn't have any of the big apps installed yet, but I compared general Aqua mousing around in the UI and didn't see a large enough difference - IMHO - to justily the TiBook on GUI speed alone, pre-Jaguar. Coming from an iBook 500, they both feel very fast.

Also, I prefer the higher dot pitch of the iBook- minor, but if you have access to an Apple Store, check it out.

It would be interesting to read a comparison of Quartz Extreme on one of the 667 DVIs and the iBook 700.

hledgard · Jun 9, 2002, 02:04 PM

Both my daughter and I are facing this decision, and both are waiting for MWNY (because we both need a computer for September).

I loaded OS 9 on both the i and the Ti, the Ti finished sooner.

The person who runs the Mac Cafe in Toledo said the future is all G4, and recommended the Ti. His profit is the same on both, I know him well, and he was just trying to help.

Dr. L

PS The Mac Cafe is a mini-store, and I think is a good idea for small cities.