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inquisito · May 10, 2002, 08:33 AM

All this fancy new OpenGl wizardry in 10.2 sounds great, but as a powerbook user I have one worry: Fans.
When doing anything remotely taxing on my TiBook 667 the fan comes on. when doing anything involving 3d, the fan really comes on!
I hope 10.2 will not mean I'll have to sacrifice my nice, quiet lifestyle.
Come to think of it, the wizardry in 10.2 is supposed to rely on hardware T&L isn't it?
Even the Rev B with a mobility radeon doesn't have that!
Are there any inclins of what 10.2 is like on non geforce machines?

lenz · May 11, 2002, 05:59 AM

well my friend, I can tell you right now that for us powerbook owners it's not gonna be much better for a while. I own a powerbook g4/550 and installed OS X.2 WWDC and I'll tell you the performance is worse than on OS X.1.0.4 because of all the extra bells and whistles apple has thrown in and the fact that our video cards are not supported (at least in this build that I have!). I thought the 32MB of V-RAM was said to be recommended and that all Radeon cards would be supported but it appears that the Radeon Mobility was infact excluded.

Hopefully apple will do more to optimize some aspects of quartz to take advantage of the graphics sub-system which do not qualify for Quartz Extreme. I'll keep my fingers crossed, but hey, I'm not using OS X for it's speed....I'm using for it's style, and stability for which it fulfills fairly well.

Mac Zealot · May 11, 2002, 06:12 AM

OE extreme will exist in as low as 16mb now, and 16mb ibooks soon "rage m3"..

It sucks.. but still better than nothing

inquisito · May 11, 2002, 11:25 AM

smashing!
I'm not waiting for the ultimate insult: the next gen iBook will have to have a graphics card that's T&L capable and it will almost definitely be G4. I'm expecting these to outdo my powerbook on OS X performance.
Any reason why apple is doing this so soon? It seems a tad premature to me especially considering until recently, their biggest seller was G3s with Rage 128s!!
Even microsoft is waiting a year or two until it goes and offloads its gui to the graphics card with the next gen vpus from the likes of 3dlabs.

inquisito · May 11, 2002, 11:28 AM

lenz, how's the old fan activity?

mugwump · May 11, 2002, 02:24 PM

Wait a minute. The claim is made here that the mobility cards are not supported for Quartz Extreme. Since the new 800 Ti book is also a mobility card, will QE run full guns on it? Are ALL mobility cards not supported, or just previous versions?

Apple Pro Underwear · May 11, 2002, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by inquisito:
<STRONG>lenz, how's the old fan activity?</STRONG>

you may already know this but...

lift the damn thing's butt of the ground and the fan comes on much less and for less amounts of time.

whether you have the tibook handle/lifter thing that elevates it or not...it works

take 2 objects and slip them onto the sides and it works like magic. i use mine as a desktop replacement and it works great.

Hawkeye_a · May 11, 2002, 02:43 PM

From what i gather, the requirements state that 32MB VRAM(minimus) w/ a radeon. The new powerbooks have these. None of the portables prior to April 2002 have this feature, which is very very unfair. Apple seems to be increasingly supporting it's new hardware with softeare, and leaving everything else behind.[/LIST]

TheMosco · May 11, 2002, 02:56 PM

I'll tell you the performance is worse than on OS X.1.0.4 because of all the extra bells and whistles apple has thrown in and the fact that our video cards are not supported (at least in this build that I have!).

Could it seem slower than 10.1.4 because Apple said that the 10.2 they gave out isn't even at pre-alpha?

And how is your graphics card not supported (unless you have a rage Pro)? Are you talking about quartz extreme or in general.

lenz · May 11, 2002, 03:30 PM

the fan activity is no different that X.1.4 so in other words it's pretty good....under regular use it never comes on. Only when using Virtual PC or playing Quake and cpu taxing applications does it come on.

And to answer the other question by someone else, the graphics card is supported just like before. Playing Quake is faster in this new build by several FPS. This would be due to the improvements to the OpenGL layer. What I meant is that QE just doesn't support it atleast at this point. I did read that all Radeons will be supported so hopefully this will something they will add before GM.

inquisito · May 11, 2002, 04:41 PM

mmm ignorance is bliss.
The Mobility Radeon 7500 has hardware T&L and is featured in the latest 667/800 mhz powerbooks anything prior to that does not have hardware t&l unless it has a Geforce or Radeon which isn't an M6 Mobility Radeon.
The beta is a pretty good estimation of speed, but it will get better. This thing is coming out in like 2 months. They aren't going to do much more than polish off functionality.

TheMosco · May 11, 2002, 08:33 PM

This thing is coming out in like 2 months

They said "late summer" so more like 3 and half months. I wish it was 2 though.

tiborg · May 12, 2002, 11:47 PM

This would depend on what your table is made of. It helps to have the airspace if you have a wood, plastic or glass table, but with a metal tabletop, I find it better to leave the TiBook sitting on the desk.

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
<STRONG>

you may already know this but...

lift the damn thing's butt of the ground and the fan comes on much less and for less amounts of time.

whether you have the tibook handle/lifter thing that elevates it or not...it works

take 2 objects and slip them onto the sides and it works like magic. i use mine as a desktop replacement and it works great.</STRONG>