[ndptal85]

Alright. I know about the Composite video/Svideo adapter.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/graphics.html

What I want to know is, what else is needed (hardware and software wise) to create your own Do It Yourself Tivo with a Mac Mini.

Does MythTV run on PPC?

Thanks

[ort888]

Except that you can get a real Tivo for $100 bucks... and it works right out of the box.

[lavar78]

Yes, but a Mac solution would allow easier archiving. I'd suggest EyeHome, but that's an additional cost.

[velodev]

I think anything is possible.

However I would be concerned the hard drive wouldn't like the heat from taping a stream for 30min - a couple hours.

Order is in, forums will be up... welcome my new hobby.

[cteselle]

You would need a TV tuner and/or a video capture device.

[velodev]

El Gato would solve that... the nice thing is why dedicate PowerMac as a TiVo when the Mac Mini is so much cheaper? It's pretty much a perfect like dedicated server... not a lot of horsepower but can be used for storage, TiVo, etc.

[Millennium]

Elgato's EyeTV provides the missing link for recording.

I'd actually like to see ElGato produce a version of its EyeTV which clips onto the Mac Mini (perhaps fitting neatly on top of it), to create a combined system. The Mac Mini's tiny form factor should work perfectly for a set-top box.

[Diggory Laycock]

I've done something similar with an old G4. However I used a PCI card and am in the UK so your solution would be slightly different. (You'll have to use an external device)

You'll need to decide is whether you want to receive Digital TV or Analogue TV. In the US the digital system is a terrestrial ATSC signal. You can get a Digital tuner here:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500
$299

If you want an analogue tv system then you could go for this USB2 thing:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file...ts_eyetvwonder
$129

or this:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_convertx
$199

If you've already got cable then you could go for this:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv200
$279

[MilkmanDan]

With a TV in card it would be the perfect media center.

Please apple. Please?

[Diggory Laycock]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Elgato's EyeTV provides the missing link for recording.

I'd actually like to see ElGato produce a version of its EyeTV which clips onto the Mac Mini (perhaps fitting neatly on top of it), to create a combined system. The Mac Mini's tiny form factor should work perfectly for a set-top box.

Ah - but there's the rub - the global TV standards are fractured by two formats (DVB vs ATSC), or even more formats if you include good old analogue TV. Then there's the input format - is it terrestrial, cable or Satellite?

All these combinations mean that they have a pretty complex product matrix.

Start another product line that 'fits' the iMac mini and suddenly you've got a huge number of product lines. That's not good - it costs - that's why Steve Jobs shrunk the Mac product matrix to 2 x 2.

[edit] and that's exactly why Apple didn't put a TV card in - too many options to satisfy the global market.

[edit2] - although on second thought, I wouldn't be surprised if they (el gato) just make one device to fit the iMac mini - an ATSC tuner for the US market. (is 1.24GHz with 256MB RAM fast enough to decode HD to the display in realtime?)

[rozwado1]

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
With a TV in card it would be the perfect media center.

Please apple. Please?

No.

[ort888]

Can someone explain to me how this would be better then a $99 TiVo and a $200 dollar DVD burner?

Is it something that you would want to do as a hobbiest or is there an actually purpose to spending more money and tons of time to achieve the same (or worse) results?

[Diggory Laycock]

Originally posted by ort888:
Can someone explain to me how this would be better then a $99 TiVo and a $200 dollar DVD burner?

The only real benefit of building your own PVR is that you can customise it to your own desires. A TiVo is a closed box - but a Mac is a general-purpose computer, so you can have it do whatever you want (assuming that the recording software is scriptable )

e.g. web-based scheduling of recordings, automated re-encoding or anything you can think of and hack together

[ort888]

You're not selling me. Especially with TiVo2Go Mac support coming at some point this year.

[ndptal85]

Ort, I just want to. Plus in the long run I'll be saving money by not having to pay the monthly Tivo fee.

Actually I could wait a year or two for these first generation Mac Mini's to hit eBay on the used market, pick one up for $250 and REALLY save some dough!

Heheheh

[lavar78]

Originally posted by ndptal85:
Ort, I just want to. Plus in the long run I'll be saving money by not having to pay the monthly Tivo fee.

Well, you could just pay the lifetime fee and the TiVo would be cheaper and easier. I think using a Mac mini would be exceedingly cool, but I don't think it would be as nice as a TiVo. TiVo is bliss.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
(is 1.24GHz with 256MB RAM fast enough to decode HD to the display in realtime?)

720p perhaps, but I tend to doubt it can handle 1080i perfectly while multitasking, and if it's trying to do real-time de-interlacing (pretty much required for watching 1080i on a progressive display) then there's no way it'll keep up. even my Athlon 64 PC practically chokes on that.

[vinster]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
(is 1.24GHz with 256MB RAM fast enough to decode HD to the display in realtime?)

Nope. See this.

[ort888]

I can accept the "I just want to" answer. There is something satisfying about doing stuff like that.

I had a friend who was building a media center PC and he was telling me about alll these things he was doing and this and that and how he needed this and that and blah blah blah... and I just had to stop him and tell him that a Replay TV and a DVD burner would accomplish the exact same thing for about half the price and zero hassle.

We argued about it for a long time and I finally got him to admit that he was just doing it for fun. I can deal with that, we all need our hobbies. I just have better things to do with my time and money.

As a Mac user, I value ease of use and well integrated software. TiVo offers that in spades, without any of the hassle. I don''t need anymore hassle in my life. I just want stuff to work.

[dlefebvre]

I know it's more expensive than a TiVo but it's still an attractive solution. Using the DVI out to hook it to my TV, I could wach slideshows and since I already have an Airport express hooked to my sound system, I could use it to send recorded shows to my other Mac to burn DVD and many other things I have not thought about yet.
Plus TiVo is not offered in Canada and I don't want to spend $300 dollars on my cable company's own PVR.

[C.J. Moof]

Until you can show me a great on screen UI that my wife would embrace as quickly as she did Tivo, and a good remote control (I will not control my TV with a mouse and a keyboard!) I'll keep the mac on the desk/lap and the Tivo next to the TV.

[vinster]

Originally posted by C.J. Moof:
Until you can show me a great on screen UI that my wife would embrace as quickly as she did Tivo, and a good remote control (I will not control my TV with a mouse and a keyboard!) I'll keep the mac on the desk/lap and the Tivo next to the TV.

My EyeTV 200 and Keyspan DMR get the job done. I also picked up a universal remote control and programmed it to emulate the Keyspan and EyeTV's remotes.

...Probably not something the wife would pick up on too quickly, though.

For me, a DIY TiVo is worth it.

[Dalhectar]

Things you can do with a HTPC (Home Theater PC/Media Center) you can't do with a TiVo

Expandable storage for archiving shows
Streaming to multiple LAN connected clients
Guaranteed playback of any type of video and music file
iTMS support
Play video games in High Def resolutions
Bypass broadcast flags/copyright protections that limit archiving (take your fair use rights back)
Scale all video content to High Def resolutions
General purpose computing
Home Automation

coming soon... not having banner ads on your TV when you Fast Forward through commercials.

Macs also have a very good implementation of Firewire. It's possible to connect your Mac to your High Def Cable set top box and record HD content, something no standalone TiVo or Replay will do. If you want to record HD from cable digitally, a Mac is perhaps your best option.

While I wouldn't want to play any video game at 1920x1080 or even 1280x720 on an iMac mini, the other features might make a difference to you.

Not to knock TiVo. The TiVo GUI is the best out there, and GUI goes a long way to making a product usable. And compared to a Windows or Mac HTPC, the TiVo/Replay/DVR set top box is much cheaper. The AMD64 based HTPC I just put together has probably about $1500 in hardware in it (and I won't even mention how much I actually spent on it after testing different equipment, plan changes, software, and hardware damaged during install) and I'm still not yet done. CompUSA has a 400GB hard drive on sale I might want to add to it, not because I need it, but because I can add it.

I don't like EyeTV because it does not have support for external tuning. It won't change the channel of your cable/satellite box so you can record a channel you don't get from analogue cable. Also I have 2 TV Tuners, and the idea of 2 breakout boxes from EyeTV doesn't sound attractive.

A HTPC is purely for enthusiasts, Like the MacNN reader who has 5 or more Mac products. Some people might give you a strange look when you tell then you like Mac, and the same is expected of a person who blows over $1G on a Media Center when a TiVo and DVD Decoder will do the most important features (and do those features better than a HTPC/Media Center) for much less.

As a final note don't forget the monthly service charge or lifetime subscription to TiVo/Replay. $12 a month will cost you more than the TiVo within a year, and in a bit over 2 years that lifetime subscription of $299 starts to become a better deal.

[ort888]

Expandable storage for archiving shows

You can upgrade the hard drive on a TiVo

Streaming to multiple LAN connected clients

If you have multiple TiVos all connected to a home network you can stream shows from one unit to another.

Guaranteed playback of any type of video and music file

Uh, ok. Not handy for taping TV shows.

iTMS support

TiVo will play songs from your iTunes library. It also picks up all of your playlists. It's not quite as user friendly as iTunes, but it's damn close.

Play video games in High Def resolutions

Mac games? I don't need my DVR to play games. I have consoles for that.


Bypass broadcast flags/copyright protections that limit archiving (take your fair use rights back)

Never seen this come up on TiVo

Scale all video content to High Def resolutions

TiVo definitally needs to get on the HD bandwagon.

General purpose computing
Home Automation

I already have a computer for that stuff. Hooking it up to the TV doesn't improve either.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by ort888:

iTMS support

TiVo will play songs from your iTunes library. It also picks up all of your playlists. It's not quite as user friendly as iTunes, but it's damn close.

He said iTMS support. TiVo can not play songs from the iTunes music store. iTunes on a Mac can.

-Owl

[Seattle]

I agree the Apple Mini is a great form factor for a HTPC and would work well. I like TiVo and it works for me. I just got a Pioneer TiVo with DVD burner and it works great. I also have eight other TiVos, two replays and a HTPC.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Seattle:
I agree the Apple Mini is a great form factor for a HTPC and would work well. I like TiVo and it works for me. I just got a Pioneer TiVo with DVD burner and it works great. I also have eight other TiVos, two replays and a HTPC.

Hmmm, if only they were all replays so they could talk to each other and share shows huh?

But man, thats a lot of TV.

-Owl

[Seattle]

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Hmmm, if only they were all replays so they could talk to each other and share shows huh?

But man, thats a lot of TV.

-Owl

Five of the TiVos are Series 2 and they share shows between them.

[OB1]

Originally posted by Dalhectar:
Things you can do with a HTPC (Home Theater PC/Media Center) you can't do with a TiVo

Expandable storage for archiving shows
Streaming to multiple LAN connected clients
Guaranteed playback of any type of video and music file
iTMS support
Play video games in High Def resolutions
Bypass broadcast flags/copyright protections that limit archiving (take your fair use rights back)
Scale all video content to High Def resolutions
General purpose computing
Home Automation

coming soon... not having banner ads on your TV when you Fast Forward through commercials.

Macs also have a very good implementation of Firewire. It's possible to connect your Mac to your High Def Cable set top box and record HD content, something no standalone TiVo or Replay will do. If you want to record HD from cable digitally, a Mac is perhaps your best option.

While I wouldn't want to play any video game at 1920x1080 or even 1280x720 on an iMac mini, the other features might make a difference to you.

OK, you've piqued my interest. So are there any tv's I can my connect Mac mini to that will also function as well as a monitor?

[Dalhectar]

Expandable storage for archiving shows
You can upgrade the hard drive on a TiVo
You can, but that voids your warranty

This adds another advantage, the ability to edit the recording. While sure you can hack a TiVo and rip its hard drive, that'll void your warranty too.

Streaming to multiple LAN connected clients
If you have multiple TiVos all connected to a home network you can stream shows from one unit to another.
While the cost of playing extra TiVo service fees diminishes with marginal units, there is an additional cost . Eventually extra TiVos and extra service fees per TiVo is one way of eating up the cost advantage of TiVo. With a HTPC client, you could use a Windows, Mac, or Linux machine to view all your content regardless of if you have a Windows, Mac or Linux server (unless you have MCE).

Guaranteed playback of any type of video and music file
Uh, ok. Not handy for taping TV shows.
Very handy for finding shows that aren't out on TV, DVD, or conflict with your recording schedule. Also good for Foreign TV and Movies that don't make it to the US. Even DVDs, if you have an extensive DVD catalog you can rip DVDs and be able to watch them on Demand.

Play video games in High Def resolutions
Mac games? I don't need my DVR to play games. I have consoles for that.
I have games to play them, hopefully on as many devices as I can make the games. But talking about playing games on an iMac Mini at such a high resolution as I said before is a moot point. On a more powerful Mac or PC, then its possible. And if you play just consoles, you are limiting yourself from a large number of Simulation, RTS, MMORPGs, and FPS genre games.

Bypass broadcast flags/copyright protections that limit archiving (take your fair use rights back)
Never seen this come up on TiVo
Once you get into High Def, such as the HD Direct TV TiVo, this in theory could become a factor. HBO's upcoming copyright scheme starting in June will effect TiVoToGo and TiVo, and ripped movies from a TiVo Hard Drive.

General purpose computing
Home Automation
I already have a computer for that stuff. Hooking it up to the TV doesn't improve either.
There are a lot of computing tasks I wouldn't want to do on a TV, such as typing Word or Home Finances on Quicken. But there are times when you find something you want to share with others, and gathering around a TV in a living room, where you probably already are, is more convenient than gathering around a desk to look at it on a smaller screen.

Features like Home Temp Control, Light Control, Home Security, also could be useful. Your wife says she is cold in sleep, and you are watching TV in another room. Pause the show, switch to the room temp app, turn up the heat, get back to the show, and press resume all without leaving your couch.

The question is, is someone willing to give up the ease of use and price advantage of a DVR for added features that might or might not be worth the cost in plug and play and price. A DIY DVR isn't for most, perhaps not even many people, as TiVo and Replay add features. Many people will even sacrifice the TiVo GUI to get a cable broadcaster supplied DVR box since their monthly fee is less than TiVo. More options are good, especially when those options can be customized to your personal taste as is the case in a HTPC/Media Center.

[Dalhectar]

Originally posted by OB1:
OK, you've piqued my interest. So are there any tv's I can my connect Mac mini to that will also function as well as a monitor?

Out the box, any HDTV with DVI would be perfect. All you'll need is a DVI cable for the best possible picture. If you don't have an HDTV, you can use the optional TV Adapter apple provides for any other TV, but the quaity would be multitudes times better on a DVI or HDMI enabled HDTV.

Even Apple's S-Video out for my Powerbook isn't bad though, better than most PC options. The iMac connection options and the form factor are what make the iMac Mini such a neat option for it.

[ort888]

I can see the benefits, but I can't see the extra effort and money being worth the final result. It's just a matter of differing priorities I suppose.

[gbhgbh]

Another reason for chosing this over Tivo is the privacy issue. Tivo is able to monitor everything you do; what you watch, when you record, which commercials you skip, etc. If you don't like Big Brother watching over you, use a computer for these purposes.

[Diggory Laycock]

If you're in DVB-land (i.e. Europe / Australasia / India / Russia ) http://www.atscforum.org/DTV_WorldMap.pdf

Then this: http://www.secure-server-centre.com/...p?partno=E3325 is a relatively cheap digital TV input and has drivers in late beta over at the Mac DVB site:
http://www.defyne.org/DVB

[Judge_Fire]

One of the above links got borked in my browser because of capitalization, this one worked better:

http://www.defyne.org/dvb/

J

[SomeToast]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
A TiVo is a closed box [...]

With its Linux-based hardware and healthy hacking community, I'd say that the Tivo's the most open stand-alone recorder out there.

I upgraded the hard drives on mine over a year ago. Next will be to put in the network/cache card I've got lying around and install a web server for remote programming.

Do any of the HTPC hardware options offer direct-digital, dual-tuner recording off the satellite? That's the key feature for me.

[MikeD]

sigh... and there's still no tivo2go for mac...

Mike

[Arty50]

Until the PC based DVRs can change channels on a digital cable or satellite box, I won't even consider getting one. It's like the dirty little secret that no one wants to talk about. I know it was mentioned above, but in every thread I've ever seen on the subject of PC DVR vs. Replay/TiVo it only gets mentioned once in passing if at all.

For me, this is a huge glaring hole in all of the PC DVR products.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally Posted by Arty50

Until the PC based DVRs can change channels on a digital cable or satellite box, I won't even consider getting one. It's like the dirty little secret that no one wants to talk about. I know it was mentioned above, but in every thread I've ever seen on the subject of PC DVR vs. Replay/TiVo it only gets mentioned once in passing if at all.

For me, this is a huge glaring hole in all of the PC DVR products.

It's possible with a USB-UIRT, but not the most elegant solution. Also, some comcast/motorola cable boxes were/are controllable via firewire (i haven't kept up with HTPCs in a few months, so I don't know if that's still the case). For the most part, you're right, though. Until Vista and PC CableCard readers come (or, Mac gods willing, a cablecard-enabled Mac HTPC), we're SOL if we want to time-shift anything other than basic cable.