[mrmister]

Some folks found OS 9.1 GM on Apple's ftp servers...and now I have a copy, thanks to Mr. Carracho.
More stable, faster finder windows & uses a little less RAM than 9.0.4.

Best simple improvement: the key combo for emptying the trash

Worst improvement: The "Window" finer menu...a waste of time for me.

[Cipher13]

It may be wise to be more subtle in future.

Cipher13

[mrmister]

Feh. As if.

Really, Apple spends its resources in sensible areas--hunting NDAs and (maybe) people that break ADC agreements. I've done neither, and I think that the aura of fear and dread Cupertino likes to emote these days is pure hogwash.

If Apple Legal calls me and tells me to revert to OS 9.0.4, then I'll do so.

[slboett]

Exactly - you broke none because you have none. It's obvious you took the software from someone who did though...thanks for your insights.

Scott

[This message has been edited by slboett (edited 11-26-2000).]

[mrmister]

Strange sarcasm...at any rate, it's in the public domain now. I know of at least 20 or 30 Macs running 9.1 in the last 12 hours. Apple is going to have to do a better job being secretive if it wants all its ballyhoo-ed "surprises".

Any way, before the paranoia started, I was wondering if anyone had any questions on 9.1....I'll be happy to answer them, if I can.

[Fredo]

Yeah, how can I get it? Legally, of course. Apple tech doesn't admit it even exists.

[mrmister]

Now THAT I'm not touching with a 10 foot pole.

[Cipher13]

You can get anything from Hotline or Carracho.
Oh, you meant legally...

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 11-27-2000).]

[oscar]

We cannot condone piracy. Even if it was available from apple, apple hasn't released the NDA's for it, thus if you have it, your not suppose to.

Please, until its release please don't mention obtaining macos9.1

Thank You

------------------
-See Yea!

[TallGuyGT]

any more details on new features, speed and stability, etc??

[petek]

So Oscar:

Is MacNN in a "difficult" legal position if people post info on unreleased products, like 9.1? Seems dangerously close to the case of Adobe's attack on AppleInsider... As much as I'd like to know more about 9.1 (which I will buy when it is released), I'd hate to see the lawyers from the Infinite Loop going after MacNN, too!

[oscar]

No, it's more of a case of being careful.
Apple's legal shouldn't care if we talk about it, but as SOON as we mention how to obtain it, apple will sick us like a pack of ravenous dogs. So as I stated above, feel free to talk about the features, and the like, but please don't mention how/where/why/ of how to obtain it. Even saying hotline has it might qualify your post for deletion. Of course when I delete threads/post, I always e-mail a note to the author.

Remember guys, these boards are for YOU, not for macnn. If you abuse them, they WILL come down. So be good, and remember big brother is always watching =)

------------------
-See Yea!

[This message has been edited by oscar (edited 11-28-2000).]

[Cipher13]

Ok... features...
Much faster than 9.04. Even at f6 which is what I'm currently using. You don't notice it after booting into 9.1 from 9.04, but when you go the other way, you do.
But it might be that the OS 9.04 extension set of mine is probably a little heavier than the 9.1 one... they're not totally synced.
Window menu - I don't use it. Not dissing it - I'm just not used to it and barely notice its there. It shows pop-up windows too unfortunately, since they are considered 'open'...
Trash hot key - very cool, saves me doing the ResEdit hack...
MUCH more stable. Not one crash in 9.1f6 so far. But then again I rarely crash in 9.04... hell, I haven't seen the MacsBug screen for AGES...
Um... new Documents Folder icon
The control panels have had makeovers, but nothing much...
Um...
Yeah...
If I think of anything else I'll post...

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 11-29-2000).]

[Gregory]

ThinkSecret had some snapshots that have since disappeared... so that was going to far I'd guess.

I heard on AppleInsider (now that site has been idle since Oct '23) that OT 3.0 was in there and offered multilink PPP which didn't happen but OT is newer and hopefully improved. And maybe will lead to allowing Classic OT to work with the next OS X PB - guess after MWSF.

Even OS 9 was said to be stable, faster, etc and yet it took (me and lots of vendor drivers) most of 2000 and a rewrite in 9.0.1/2/3/4 to get it up and running... it was almost GM last December when they had to pull and rewrite a bunch... and 9.0.4 broke a number of drivers etc. Hard on developers AND us.

Even MS IE team had to rewrite to make IE "work" and not be just another Windows port.

So even the highest kudo and praise (which I'm sure are due and warranted) are no guarantee of real-world given the past 3-4 yrs. For every solid OS there are three stepping stones that were "slippery" 7.5.2/7.5.3 or stuff that lasted a day (6.0, 6.01, 6.02), or that 8.5/8.5.1/8.6 were all announced in less than six months time.

I have 9.0 plus a dozen or so updaters I have to run just for the Mac OS right now. I'd like to get back to a "current" OS CD. I'd order 9.1 today if I could.

Grgory

There's a note up at the site now . . . it looks like its working now?

ppg6

[Misha]

AI has had snaps of 9.1 for months... lots of 'em, in fact.

And for those of you curious, the lack of updates is a combination of a lack of time from AI's staff members, as well as (primarily) a lack of information. AI prides itself on delivering information that only it deems accurate/worthy enough for posting. We could make stuff up and update everyday like MOSR does, but that's not our purpose.

Look for some goodies from AI soon... Macworld is just around the corner.

Misha,

Looks like these are 9.1 GM things, will AI have something on the GM at all?

[GRAFF]

For those of you who do have it, does 9.1 become the new classic environment when running OS X beta? Is the OS X beta software detected by the 9.1 installation? (And do you already have OS X final as well? )

[gorgonzola]

www.railheaddesign.com

There's an entire report, in-depth, of 9.1 w/ ample screenshots.

enjoy!

------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by GRAFF:
For those of you who do have it, does 9.1 become the new classic environment when running OS X beta? Is the OS X beta software detected by the 9.1 installation? (And do you already have OS X final as well? )

OSXPB doesn't work with 9.1 ATM. Nope, I don't have OSX final. But I'll letcha know when I do

Cipher13

[Gregory]

There is an update of OSXPB (probably held off till Jan MW so Steve has something to show off) to use 9.1 in Classic, until then 9.0.4 can be used. Check MacFixit.

9.1 according to rumors improves integration and compatibility and will reduce need to use separate partitions. Also System Disk is improved. In fact version 3.1 - the earlier version - is better at selecting multiple systems from same volume to write an alias into Open Firmware to select which to boot, unlike 3.3 which is included in OS X PB now.

With MRJ, QT5, FireWire and other updaters we now need, I'd prefer to see a CD to consolidate... I've waited years for OS - xomething but now that I've seen it... I just want Apple to perfect OS 9. Maybe in a year or two when OS X is mature, more stuff is out... I do NOT like it when vendors say they are holding off (so they don't get the shaft with last minute changes as happens all the time) with last minute changes made that affect drivers, utilities etc. 1.0 IS shrink-wrap beta. 9.0 took months to get 9.0.4. 8.5 took five months to get 8.6 (forget 8.5.1).

Apple track record? Tooks longer, is never as good as purported to be, always takes 3rd party time to catch up. AI extolled the virtues of 9.0's speed and stability and best yet and clean... but the 9.0.1 quick fix update took a complete rewrite after it was done with beta and was ready for fc to realize they had to pull some code and rewrite stuff from ground up to get it to work properly. Meaning? It wasn't designed well to begin, the "if you are going to do it, do it right to begin with."

I just wish vendors would always.

You want to benefit from a Pentium 4? They are tweaking it and it changes the rules and software needs to be rewritten to take advantage. Routines that used fpu now use a different method.

Will Apple force us through that with G5? With PowerPC4 (IBM chip)? Will OS X make the future smoother??? Stay tuned to see if Apple OS soap opera.

I'm beginning to think that putting the best minds, ideas and people behind one OS (OS/2) makes more sense than everyone inventing the wheel on their own...

Gregory

[iPaul UK]

I'm with Gregory on this! I seriously think people are only excited about OS X cos it looks pretty! But I use an Aqau theme on OS 9 to get much the same effect. Looks like OS 9.1 will be the final "Proper" Apple OS. So long may it live! Gotta get my mitts on it first though!

As for Apples track record.. I would not be quite so hard on them myself. Althgough this 500MHz CPU ceiling seems to be going on a mighty long time.. I don't think the software and OS's are that bad really. Sure it could be better. But it's already way better than Windoze. So thats why I don't complain..(much!)

[Gregory]

Apple design is great. The hardware is no longer so unique as we move to outsourced standards in memory, USB, etc. No one is going to build parts just for Apple... except MOTO and maybe IBM... and the costs of R&D in chip technology, $B's in investment, might be better spent elsewhere... in what Apple does and does better than others.... and that seems to be... plastics (remember Dustin Hoffman in Graduate 60's movie ...and software.

Linux-Darwin-BSD-NeXT-Aqua

I like that 9.1 will be more stable--that's very good news. As for a trash shortcut--I didn't know about the resedit trick, can someone enlighten me? I wrote a script and linked it to a hotkey, so I have one key trash emptying, but I wouldn't mind knowing how to do it with resedit.

Anyone looking for GUI enhancements to OS 9.1, go here ASAP:
http://home.netcom.com/~kawahara/taskmenubar.html

This is the best little piece of shareware I've ever used. I liked it so much I even paid for it!

mrmister,

What mac are you running 9.1 on? I hope that the speed improvement you're seeing isn't limited to G4's.

Tai

Aparently Mac OS 9.1 only comes in a ~300-400 MB format (ie an entire CD). Does this mean that there will be no upgrade for current Mac OS 9.0.4 users?

[Misha]

There will no doubt be a 9.1 updater... as all developers know well, Apple near-always releases updates to them as a full CD, as it eases clean-installation (which is highly recommended).

[mrmister]

I'm running on an iMac DV SE 400 mhz, and as I've said, it's running great. As others have pointed out, there's no Public Beta info anywhere in the setup or documentation that I could find.

[jog]

Running 9.1 on a G4/400 AGP, I notice slightly accelerated Finder performance and remarkable stability - Open Transport is now at version 2.7.4.
Apple says that 9.1 is not compatible with OS X Public Beta in the ReadMe before Installation:
"The Mac OS X Public Beta and Mac OS 9.1 are not compatible. If you install Mac OS 9.1, the Classic environment in the Mac OS X Public Beta will no longer function."

[Burpethead]

I really like OS 9.1, but ive had a lot of problemswit stability. Usualy whenever I'm multi-tasking it forgets the other application is there and completley focuses on the front applications. For example, I can have Word open along with AIM, and AIM will forget its open and lose its connections and try to re-connect, or I will have Astarte M. Pack running in the backgroun and it will just quit on me. Not cool. I pretty sure im using either the Golden Master or a Early Final, in the installer it said nothing about GM, nor in the about box, it just says plain 9.1. I have the full cd.

[olePigeon]

Well, half your problem is that you're using two of the worse applications in the world: Word and AIM.

I'm using MacOS 9.1 and I think it's nifty. I like the new Window menu and (FINALLY!) the empty trash shortcut. =)

The biggest improvement I love is that fact that it doesn't take 10 minutes to open up the File Sharing control panel anymore. They finally fixed that damn bug. Annoying as hell.


However, just because I have 9.1 installed now certainly doesn't mean I'm not going to buy it. The moment it hits stores I'm gonna buy it.

[Cipher13]

I also will by buying Mac OS 9.1 although I already have it.
It will be the last TRUE MacOS. And perhaps my final MacOS.
Will machines in the future, bundled with OSX, be able to go back to MacOS 9 or earlier??

Cipher13

Wait a minute...we have to BUY 9.1?!?!? I thought it was going to be a free download. Where did you get this info? I don't think it would be appropriate for Apple to make us buy 9.1 when they have OSX coming in a few months. What a rip! I just spent 1300 on a Powermac that comes with an OS that crashes at least once during any dial-in session, and they want me to pay them to fix their defective product! If they make us buy 9.1, I will sure as hell not buy it (but I will definantly USE it, since its the last Mac OS and after its outdated I'll probably switch to windows).

[t_hah]

I don't think anyone said that Apple will charge for OS 9.1.
What I think you misunderstood is, that Chiper 13 said that he was going to buy it.You can order, buy updates from Apple. They sell their latest OS usually on CD. I think that is what Chiper was referring to. If you were following the previous releases of the Mac OS you know that Apple make some updates free for customers of the latest OS, and sometimes they decide that it should be a fee-based product.
I don't think anyone can state which will be the real case. that is something you will have to wait for to find out.
Just wait and you will see.


$0.02

[t_hah]

Sorry Cipher for mistyping your name in the posting above.

[MikeM32]

Thank god no Lag on the filesharing anymore, that should be nice. I suppose the Empty Trash shortcut is the same as in OSX Public Beta?

I also wish OS 9.1 to be a free update, as I only upgraded to OS 9.0.4 a few months ago. I can't see Apple Charging full price for TWO new OS's (OSX whenever it's finally released, and OS 9.1, which I suspect will be out soon).

Anyway, if it's a free download I'll jump on it of course, if not I'll wait (maybe).

Mike

[oscar]

It seems though apple is only distributing 9.1 as a full install, not just an update. While this might to combat piracy, but in the past, when they did this, they also charged for the update.



------------------
-See Yea!

[Cipher13]

No prob, everyone spells my name wrong for some reason
I don't care if I have to pay for it personally... I mean hell, its probly gonna be the last real MacOS release. I want a full CD copy.
Apple may do a $20 upgrade price for owners of OS9 or something.
I dunno, time will tell I guess.
I suggest everyone get this... OSX is crap, and this is the end for the MacOS.

Cipher13

[Bugs Bunny]

Just installed 9.1 GM, and I'm just trying it out, I will pay if Apple charges. This is definitely not an update, a full install. It seems like it just might be worth the price, hopefully Apple won't charge too much. It has some nice features added, and Filesharing starts right up, yippee. Some minor incompatibilities. That dang fangle MacTCP DNR is back again.

[iPaul UK]

Regarding upgrade costs.. I would have thought Apple would make it virtually free to everyone who has "Recently" purchased a Mac. Thats how I got OS 9, as my iMac DVSE came with OS 8.6. I think I actually had to pay about �14 to cover postage, packing and the basic cost of the CD etc. I've only had my iBook 466 a few weeks, so i'm kinda hoping I'll get away with another cheep upgrade! And it's always nice when those upgrade disks work on all my Macs.. Ooops! Did I really say that!? Never mind eh..

Oh, one more thing.. Why on earth is it taking Apple so long to distribute OS 9.1!?

[pcurtner]

I'm happy to let Apple take their time and only release 9.1 at MWSF next month.. but I do wish that they would divide their efforts between bug-fixing and stability (a .0.x release) and a new feature implementation effort (a X.x release).

Hurry up, get it wrong; take twice as long and get it twice as right. If they take the current approach with OS X they'll get burned and a lot of diehard Mac users will never go back. If they take their time, get it right, GET THE APPLICATIONS OUT FROM THE SOFTWARE COMPANIES, people might start adopting it and (gasp!) liking it.

Anyway.. let's say you really do have to pay for 9.1. What would you pay for it?

You just bought a Mac last month (like I did)- it better be free.
You bought one 8 months ago and need the CD- $20? $50?
You upgraded your 8600 to a G3 or something- $100?

-pwc

[The Scalz]

Misha,

You're involved with AppleInsider? Did you REALLY post pictures of the CUbe the day before it was realeased? All I ever saw at the site was the blanked out "Legal notice" graphics.

Sorry this is OT.

------------------
Richard Scalzo
Graphic Designer & Art Director
Mac user for 15 years

[oscar]

appleinsider.com is run by the folks at macnn.com
and yto answer your question, they did have picts of the cube the night before mw that introduced them.

------------------
-See Yea!

[Cipher13]

I'd have to pay the 8-month upgrade thing if those were the options.
Thats IF they gave a fully qualified install CD, not updater CD.
If it was just an updater CD, I'd pay for the full OS 9.1.
Or perhaps wait and see if theres a 9.5...
Personally I'm hoping for 9.7.
That would be a good number to stop at. I have no idea why.

Cipher13

[Fredo]

Or 9.9, even better. Number nine, number nine...

[Cipher13]

Hm... 9.99...
Y'v'all seen End Of Days right?

Cipher13

[Gregory]

With the 8.6 upgrade I order the Upgrade CD and full, and both were $20. Which is what they charge now for the 9.0.4 upgrade for 9.0 users.

Originally there was suppose to be a quick fix last Jan, and 9.5 in the summer. course that never happened. And seeing stuff got left out, I'd be surprised its "done" at 9.1.

I bought Microsoft Optical Mouse (really nice) and came with free Windows Me OS. Checked their web site, and they charge $54 for that upgrade, and the price for Windows 2000? $200+ and upgrades are $150. I'd like to see Apple include a new OS CD with say a Pro keyboard etc.

[MikeM32]

Don't mind paying for a $20 CD update to be honest. I just figure since it's a "decimal" update/upgrade it should be treated like their previous "decimal" update/upgrades (OS 8 to OS 8.1, OS 8.5 to OS 8.6 etc., etc.).

If it's that good I'll pay a full price for my home system (no more then previous @ say $89-$99 and change). Especially since I probably won't be jumping all over OSX right away anyway.

Still hoping for the update @ say $20 in CD form, if it's as huge an over-all filesize as people are posting it is. My place of work just got OS 9.0.4 recently on all our systems. If 9.1 can improve some of the "bugginess" without more software compatability issues (what a mess 9 has been so far, but we were also real behind with lots of "stuff") then we'll want it at the job.

If it's gonna mean purchasing 5 or more copies at a full price however, it's really going to piss off the company owners, and I don't intend on openning that pandora's box for a while. Still working on a huge "wishlist" of items we require, especially a new G4 workstation. Most of our workstation systems won't be capable of even running OSX down the road. 3/5 of our workstations (two 9500's and a 9600) will eventually have to "go" and be replaced (I'm not even touching accelerator cards to boost them).

Mike

[Gregory]

" My place of work just got OS 9.0.4 recently"

I thought 9.1 would be downloadable by now - if it was small enough (34MB or less) and I remember once rumors of a $49 update (7.x days). Rumors are good so you can hold off before buying and wait to see if there is an announcement and free upgrade or something past that point.

I really think some of the blame - OS 9 HAS been a lot of upgrades and fixes - but some of the blame may lay with vendors software and drivers rather than Apple - but OS 9.0.4 represented a lot of rewritten code and Apple wants this to be the one OS for almost every PowerPC.

With all the excess inventory, there are going to continue to be excellent buys on current G4 line after MWSF if last summer and reports of 11 weeks of product are true (enough to carry through most of February). New G4/400s are still around, and those are from July/Aug production. The thing to do is get one G4, work on upgrading it and finding bugs or upgrades needed before migrating company - but standardizing will help. And upgrading 9600's - well G3/500 or even G4/450 aren't that bad anymore and those upgrade card prices are going to drop, especially if there are new faster Macs and CPUs out there for Sonnet, Newer, XLR8 etc. It will be late 2001 when all the DDR and OS X and other issues with hardware and software are worked out. I'd say a new OS (9.1 or OS X) and new hardware motherboard WILL have bugs that will take rev 2 motherboards and 9.1.1 to cure.

[eevyl]

I think Mac OS 9.1 is a simply fix to stay in sync with OS X, leaving the Classic enviroment bug-free and stable.

I hope Mac OS 9.1 will be an add-on with the purchase of Mac OS X Final. It will be fun to see the Classic-Fanatics go buy the OS X just for the 9.1 update. Maybe then they will give Aqua a try

Mac OS is not dead, it is resurrected!