[dozx]

I'm not saying it is a bad machine. I'm just saying that this type of gaming has been around for years. As you know, you have had the ability to play games at these resolutions on your computer for years, and as you also know there are and were much better graphics cards available even before this new Xbox came out. I just don't understand what all the hype is for. Just looks like a new toy to spend money on. This brings nothing new to gaming.

[1800-whatever]

Originally Posted by just a poster

It's a Microsoft product which means I'll buy it when hell freezes over.
.

same here

[starman]

Originally Posted by dozx

I do have hd tv's and I do understand about resolution and the difference in quality, however this Xbox does nothing different from the first Xbox...... it plays games. Like I said every thing looks a little nicer but it is still the same old, same old game console. I'm not complaining about the quality of the graphics I'm just saying that my Atari 2600 played games to so how is this so revolutionary. I play games with this the same way I played games 15 years ago. I want some thing that really offers some thing new to gaming and this just doesn't have it.

Yeah, just like the Atari 2600 "played games"

[starman]

Originally Posted by dozx

I'm not saying it is a bad machine. I'm just saying that this type of gaming has been around for years. As you know, you have had the ability to play games at these resolutions on your computer for years, and as you also know there are and were much better graphics cards available even before this new Xbox came out. I just don't understand what all the hype is for. Just looks like a new toy to spend money on. This brings nothing new to gaming.

What exactly is "this type of gaming"?

Some new things with the 360:

1) When you unlock an achievement in a game, it's immediately uploaded to the Xbox Live servers so that you can compare your achievements with your friends.

2) HD. Kameo, PDZ, PGR3 all look AMAZING on the 360. Yes, the X1 had HD support, but few games used it.

3) It's also a media center. I hooked up my iPod to it and used it to play music through it.

4) You can send friends text and voice messages.

5) Controllers are wireless.

6) You can download games and trailers from the Xbox Live servers.

What other console allows that? PS2? Gamecube? Even the X1 had only a few of those options at launch.

Mike

[driven]

Originally Posted by dozx

I do have hd tv's and I do understand about resolution and the difference in quality, however this Xbox does nothing different from the first Xbox...... it plays games. Like I said every thing looks a little nicer but it is still the same old, same old game console. I'm not complaining about the quality of the graphics I'm just saying that my Atari 2600 played games to so how is this so revolutionary. I play games with this the same way I played games 15 years ago. I want some thing that really offers some thing new to gaming and this just doesn't have it.

What is it that would make a game new and exciting to you?

[starman]

I don't think it matters to him. If he thinks that the 360 == 2600, then there's no point in arguing.

[lenox]

My brother spent the night with an xbox 360 (no, not like that...I think), and told me that it crashed four times in the few hours he gave it a chance. I am hearing similar reports all over the place.

Now, I am not being anti-microsoft here (anyone have a ps2 that still reads _all_ types of discs?) but I am starting to think that console makers are going overboard trying to add too much functionality to their consoles, before they are ready.

If this trend continues, there will/should be a reactionary backlash, from 'who has the most features' to 'who has the most stability'....and with the Revolution, maybe Nintendo will win...?

[spatterson]

I'm waiting out the verdict between PS3 and 360... then I get the one thats better overall

[kcmac]

Originally Posted by spatterson

I'm waiting out the verdict between PS3 and 360... then I get the one thats better overall

We have an XBox and a PlayStation. We are waiting to see if there is any reason to upgrade. We can easily wait for rev 2 or for the ultimate price wars to come.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by dozx

I do have hd tv's and I do understand about resolution and the difference in quality, however this Xbox does nothing different from the first Xbox...... it plays games. Like I said every thing looks a little nicer but it is still the same old, same old game console. I'm not complaining about the quality of the graphics I'm just saying that my Atari 2600 played games to so how is this so revolutionary. I play games with this the same way I played games 15 years ago. I want some thing that really offers some thing new to gaming and this just doesn't have it.

Again, why does it have to be a wand you wave in the air to be more fun?

Movies have been the same from the beginning with additions of colour and sound. Why does they system have to have some gimmicky new controller to justify buying?

Until Nintendo tried to convince everyone that it has to have a new controller to be worth buying everyone was happy with better graphics, sound, AI.

As far as I am concerned the tie in with even the FREE Xbox live is more revolutionary than Nintendo's wand.

[dozx]

I wasn't talking Nintendo, but if that is what everyone thinks I'm talking about I'll have a go at Nintendo. For Starters I will say that out of all the console makers they are the only ones willing to take a risk to take gaming to new places. Many of their products have introduced new ways of interacting with a game, not just this latest effort. When I say that the Xbox is the same old gaming console I mean, well, lets compare it to things that have truly been great new products. Going from a command line to a GUI interface was truly innovative and took computing to a new levels. The iPod, it wasn't the first MP3 player, but teamed up with iTunes it was the first complete solution that allowed me to not have to carry around tons of cd's and made buying music easy. Like I said I'm not saying the new Xbox is not a good machine, It just doesn't offer anything new. Some one listed new things Xbox offers but none of them haven't been around before:

1) When you unlock an achievement in a game, it's immediately uploaded to the Xbox Live servers so that you can compare your achievements with your friends.

Hmm.... I could always compare my achievements with my friends... with my mouth. Oh yeah there have been many computer games that do this for years.

2) HD. Kameo, PDZ, PGR3 all look AMAZING on the 360. Yes, the X1 had HD support, but few games used it.

Great graphics have been available for years, long before this Xbox.

3) It's also a media center. I hooked up my iPod to it and used it to play music through it.

As I recall I could always hook my iPod directly up to any stereo and play my music through it, what a great feature that is.

4) You can send friends text and voice messages.

Had that ability forever it's called a cell phone, does both, and its portable

5) Controllers are wireless.

For the past 6 years you could get wireless controllers for any game system

6) You can download games and trailers from the Xbox Live servers.

Once again been able to download games and trailers forever, and let me just touch on that whole Xbox live thing. It is a gimmick to keep you thinking Xbox.

[ort888]

Well, if someone used your logic when buying electronics, they would pick up a new device every 5-6 years.

Have fun with that.

[dozx]

If 5-6 years is what it takes for some thing to be any better than the prior version of it, then yeah I would wait 5-6 years. Why buy for the sake of buying if it is not worth it. This is exactly what companies have been doing for years just giving you a little bump in graphics or sound and then making you pay a premium for it. Not worth it........

[slffl]

I will buy it because video games are my hobby. However, I'm most excited about the Revolution. Graphics don't make fun games IMO. I recently re-re-purchased the PS2 just so I could play Guitar Hero, which is the most fun I've had playing a game in a long time.

[dozx]

I understand it is your hobby, and I respect that, But, I also see that you understand my point of view................... Thanks

[Dark Helmet]

dozx tell us what the Xbox could have offered that would get you to buy it.

You are giving these stupid points that your collection of thousands of dollars of items can do the same thing as the Xbox. "oh my $2000 computer can play MP3's, My $60 a month Cellphone can text message, my stacked Alienware $4000 PC has better graphics". Bla bla bla.

You ever here of convergence for $400?

[Super Mario]

I saw COd2 on 360 today and not impressed. The graphics are the same as COD on PC from one year ago with some improvement in fx like smoke, blurry sight, bumps on the tires. I expected more but we still see triangle hills and perfect square edges. This is next generation for consoles but 2 gens ago for PC. I gonna wait to see what's next.

[ort888]

Your basically saying that anything that doesn't come out and reinvent the wheel isn't worth buying. It's pretty silly really.

Do you walk around in animal pelts and live in a cave? Because a house is basically just a cave with flat floors and what not. Who needs that when a cave has everything you need?

Obviously I'm being ridiculous, but so are you.

[dozx]

I think you are missing the point. The point is why would I want to converge my cell phone capabilities with a stationary Xbox, that doesn't sound like progress to me. To answer your question about what Xbox could have done to get me to buy it..... Well, I really don't know to answer your question honestly, but, when a company finally does the right thing I will know. I do not have thousands of dollars of items, but the items I have are probably the same items you have, and have had for many years and that in many case work far better on their own than wrapped up in an Xbox. I would rather see an amazing new game machine that did just games insanely great than a machine that doesn't offer anything new.

[dozx]

No I don't think I'm being ridiculous, when some one tells me that putting the function of my portable cell phone into a stationary Xbox is a good and amazing new thing. I think people are just buying into hype and will belive what ever a company tells them. I'm just saying don't let a company tell you some thing is great and better when you have a brain to think on your own and you can evaluate that product with your own thoughts. Really........ look at what your really getting for your 400 dollars.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

I saw COd2 on 360 today and not impressed. The graphics are the same as COD on PC from one year ago with some improvement in fx like smoke, blurry sight, bumps on the tires. I expected more but we still see triangle hills and perfect square edges. This is next generation for consoles but 2 gens ago for PC. I gonna wait to see what's next.

Well, as someone who doesn't spend $1,000 a year to keep an up to date gaming PC, I was blown away by the graphics of COD2.

I think we are reaching the point where it isn't cost effective to make games with better graphics. It already costs $20 million + to make a next-gen game, to make one with the level of detail you are talking about would cost even more.

As for dozx, you obviously aren't a gamer. someone who isn't interested in playing games may not see what the big deal is, but people who do play games (and there are millions and millions of us) do, and we appreciate what new consoles are able to bring us.

So, just like you may not be able to appreciate the difference an Xbox 360 may make to me, I might not be able to appreciate the subtle differences the new psycho-tropic drugs they are using at your facility may have. Different strokes for different folks.

[Dark Helmet]

How was the S-NES revolutionary over the NES? How about the PS2, GameCube the Gameboy advance?

Answer, nothing... it was a natural and welcome progression.

The "revolutionary" products have ALL been rejected by consumers as they have been gimmicky.

Case in point, ROB the robot, the PowerGlove, the LightGun, VirtualBoy, Gameboy to GC connect, that dancepad. Even the Gameboy wasn't original.

So far every Nintendo home system that has come out has sold less units than the previous one.

The Xbox 360 will sell way better than the last (which even sold better than the GameCube).

[dozx]

Like I said before I am not pro Nintendo, but you seem to think that. I never stupd to personal insults in any of my posts and I won't be brought to by the comments of others. I will end by saying, we as consumers are responsible for the mediocrity of new products, we let companies get away with it every day because we are will to pay for mediocrity. You figure it out.

[bembol]

Since Nintendo came up...here's a great quote from DVD File forum

Originally Posted by plissken99

That is true about Nintendo. They may not do anything but gaming, but they make solid consoles that work everytime, as they are dedicated to a single purpose. If they would stop limiting themselves to kiddie games, ports from other systems, and retarded controllers, they could be a leader again.

[dozx]

I am not pro or con anything, I just think Nintendo is the only one will to take the risk to inovate and I am sure if they hit upon some thing that truly went over well every other console would be rushing to add it to their system.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by bembol

Since Nintendo came up...here's a great quote from DVD File forum

Nintendo admitted the following before the GameCube launch about the N64:
N64 cartrages held the system back.
It didn't have enough mature games.
They didn't have developer support.

Why the GameCube would rock:
STRONG 3rd party support. (that never happend)
MATURE Games. (all two of them)
Concentrating on games not playing DVD's.
The system would look cool.

What Nintendo admitted about the GameCube a month ago:
They didn't get the 3rd party support
Not enough mature games
They said systems looked childish (especially the launch purple)
Not being able to play DVD's really held the system back.

Now if you can dispute any of that with facts please let me know.

Lets look at the Revolution:
Nintendo doesn't think people want High Def (watch this be the first thing they admit was wrong in 4 years).
You can download classic games FOR MONEY (who cares, you can get a classic SNES of ebay for $2.)
Still no strong 3rd party support
On the plus side it looks ok.

[ort888]

I'm not trying to insult you so much as be funny. But seriously guy, you have some, er, interesting opinions.

What you get for $400 in the 360 is quite impressive. You may not think so, but you are not a gamer. This is a very well thought out and powerful console. To a lot of people, it is worth $400. To a lot more people it is not. It is clearly targeted toward a very specific group that does not include you.

The world needs people to constantly improve things. That';s how stuff gets better. sometimes it's better to take what works and just make it better then it is to simply try and reinvent something. Let the big players keep improving the core products and let the little guys try to muscle in on their territory by innovating.

The most important thing is making sure that consumers have choices. All the competition in the gaming industry is great for the consumer. I hope it stays a three horse race for a long time.

[dozx]

I agree with you there are many people that think this system is great. But, what you have said kind of leads to my point. Microsoft is a big player and they should be taking the risks and inovating, not blinding people with the supposed "value added features". I, we should expect more from these companies. I am sure there are many people that feel the way I do. You are right consumers having a choice is very important. I too hope it remaines a 3 man race or more for that matter. I just don't get the hype for this product. I do play games, about once a day, does that make me a gamer? Not sure. but, I do like to play games.

[johnhood]

I had an Xbox 360 on pre-order until Amazon UK informed me that it was unlikely that my order would ship prior to Xmas. So, I'll wait until Feb/Mar and reassess the situation. Still, it's a nice looking console and oozes Mac DNA!

[Dark Helmet]

Judging by the sales and reaction so far MS has really done something right.

I have to give them credit for ONE thing. When there 1.0 product sucks they really know how to fix it by 2.0.

[OB1]

Originally Posted by johnhood

I had an Xbox 360 on pre-order until Amazon UK informed me that it was unlikely that my order would ship prior to Xmas. So, I'll wait until Feb/Mar and reassess the situation. Still, it's a nice looking console and oozes Mac DNA!

You can't buy anything! I went in to the city centre today, thought I might pick up a PSP while I was there. Nowhere had one in stock.

I DID get to try XBOX360 though, LOVE the controller and Kameo is loads of fun. The 'trackball ui' thingy is slick and cool and is making Sonys current plan for its next controller look really weak imho. I think I'll still be opting for a PS3/Revolution setup for my next gen gaming, but XBox360 is looking very tempting too.

[porieux]

...

[starman]

Originally Posted by dozx

I wasn't talking Nintendo, but if that is what everyone thinks I'm talking about I'll have a go at Nintendo. For Starters I will say that out of all the console makers they are the only ones willing to take a risk to take gaming to new places. Many of their products have introduced new ways of interacting with a game, not just this latest effort. When I say that the Xbox is the same old gaming console I mean, well, lets compare it to things that have truly been great new products. Going from a command line to a GUI interface was truly innovative and took computing to a new levels. The iPod, it wasn't the first MP3 player, but teamed up with iTunes it was the first complete solution that allowed me to not have to carry around tons of cd's and made buying music easy. Like I said I'm not saying the new Xbox is not a good machine, It just doesn't offer anything new. Some one listed new things Xbox offers but none of them haven't been around before:

1) When you unlock an achievement in a game, it's immediately uploaded to the Xbox Live servers so that you can compare your achievements with your friends.

Hmm.... I could always compare my achievements with my friends... with my mouth. Oh yeah there have been many computer games that do this for years.

2) HD. Kameo, PDZ, PGR3 all look AMAZING on the 360. Yes, the X1 had HD support, but few games used it.

Great graphics have been available for years, long before this Xbox.

3) It's also a media center. I hooked up my iPod to it and used it to play music through it.

As I recall I could always hook my iPod directly up to any stereo and play my music through it, what a great feature that is.

4) You can send friends text and voice messages.

Had that ability forever it's called a cell phone, does both, and its portable

5) Controllers are wireless.

For the past 6 years you could get wireless controllers for any game system

6) You can download games and trailers from the Xbox Live servers.

Once again been able to download games and trailers forever, and let me just touch on that whole Xbox live thing. It is a gimmick to keep you thinking Xbox.

Great for you. How much of ^^ has been done on a CONSOLE?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by porieux

You'd have to have an ass for a head to buy an Xbox 360.
Microsoft knows nothing about video games, all it is is
a crippled PC.

People are discussing this seriously on a Mac board?

Microsoft is the leader in PC games.

The Xbox sold better than Nintendo with 20 years of experience.

You know nothing.

[starman]

Originally Posted by dozx

I agree with you there are many people that think this system is great. But, what you have said kind of leads to my point. Microsoft is a big player and they should be taking the risks and inovating, not blinding people with the supposed "value added features". I, we should expect more from these companies. I am sure there are many people that feel the way I do. You are right consumers having a choice is very important. I too hope it remaines a 3 man race or more for that matter. I just don't get the hype for this product. I do play games, about once a day, does that make me a gamer? Not sure. but, I do like to play games.

Well, obviously, thousands of people think differently than you do. Why keep arguing a moot point?

[lngtones]

I heard the iPod was really just a ripoff of the GameBoy, maybe you shouldn't buy iPods because they aren't revolutionary.

[starman]

Originally Posted by lngtones

I heard the iPod was really just a ripoff of the GameBoy, maybe you shouldn't buy iPods because they aren't revolutionary.

[Daveecee]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

What does that involve? A pack of gamers running around on the streets enlightening everyone on waving a remote around in the air.

Do you actually read the articles, or do you just look at the pictures?

[ort888]

Originally Posted by porieux

You'd have to have an ass for a head to buy an Xbox 360.
Microsoft knows nothing about video games, all it is is
a crippled PC.

People are discussing this seriously on a Mac board?

Excellent points. Thanks for playing!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Daveecee

Do you actually read the articles, or do you just look at the pictures?

What articles?

[Daveecee]

The articles regarding the Rev controller. Your remark sounded like every other person's out there who simply looks at the picture without reading anything about it.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Daveecee

The articles regarding the Rev controller. Your remark sounded like every other person's out there who simply looks at the picture without reading anything about it.

I've read every damn thing about it. Everything.

Not to mention I own every Nintendo system ever (including the virtual boy, and ROB). My first exception is the stupid DS, my second will be the Revolution. More because of the non-HD support, not the stupid wand.

[Dark Helmet]

Double gayness.

[porieux]

...

[porieux]

...

[Dark Helmet]

Wow a new teenager just made my ignore list.

p.s. you're a poopy head.

[Kevin]

[slffl]

Originally Posted by plissken99

That is true about Nintendo. They may not do anything but gaming, but they make solid consoles that work everytime, as they are dedicated to a single purpose. If they would stop limiting themselves to kiddie games, ports from other systems, and retarded controllers, they could be a leader again.

Wow, this is what is wrong with 'gamers' today.

Graphics don't make a game 'kiddie'. If all you want are realistic blood and violence, then stick with the playstation. I am 30 years old and I think Nintendo and Sega make the best games out there.

And retarded controllers? HAHAHAH, ya I hate new and innovative things, they are unpatriotic and unamerican. jeeezuz

I'm glad most of these type of 'gamers' stick with the playstation and counterstrike on pc.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by dozx

I am not pro or con anything, I just think Nintendo is the only one will to take the risk to inovate and I am sure if they hit upon some thing that truly went over well every other console would be rushing to add it to their system.

There is some truth to that, but I can't help but think that if Nintendo were still on top, would we still be playing offline and with cartridges? Nintendo comes up with some good innovations from time to time, but they also have an uncanny ability to ignore obvious trends.

I understand your reaction to the X360 hype. Personally, I am a gadget fiend and a gamer, and both those hobbies tend to converge pretty nicely when new gaming hardware is out. I don't really care about hype, it doesn't make me think worse or better about any console. There are a lot of great additions and improvements in the X360 that I appreciate. No, it isn't the second coming of the 2600, NES or the PSX, but it's a well-designed system with thoughtful evolutions of some common features. For example, Xbox Live is like nothing else available on consoles. Microsoft didn't invent online play, but they easily have the best service available and have integrated online gaming into every nook and cranny of the X360 experience.

Finally, comparing consoles to PCs is comparing apples to oranges. PCs will always be ahead in sheer performance simply due to their short refresh cycle compared to consoles. Every time a new console generation comes out, people start bringing up the PC comparisons. Yet even previous generations of consoles that, at launch, eclisped PC gamign performance (e.g. the 32 bit consoles) eventually fell behind PC gaming performance during their lifespans. But it's not all about performance, for a lot of gamers, like me, it's just more fun and more cost effective to own a console.

[ink]

"Is XBox a money pit?"

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,123711,00.asp

Not anywhere close to the reported $150 loss per unit, but still a moderate loss. I was surprised to see that Microsoft lost a billion dollars on the original XBox. Not many companies could handle that kind of "success" (Nintendo actually made money, and shipped about the same number of consoles).