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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Almost a switcher; one last issue.

Almost a switcher; one last issue.
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iLincoln
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Jan 30, 2003, 03:33 PM
 
I've been considering switching since the arrival of Ibook. I believe I am like a lot of current PC users,intrigued with Apple but always find a reason not to switch.

I've waited for Apple to give me a product that offers screen size suitable for my vision (12" too small), fast enough to run the OS(G3 just didn't seem the ideal fit for OSX), offers a good wireless solution (Ti problems with Airport range a major issue for me), and a price that I could live with ($3000+ is not happening).

Even though speculation I believe if Apple releases the 15.4" Al book I will be ready to make the plunge. The only remaining issue is with access to Web sites. In my Windows NT world I encounter sites that inform me that they are sorry but they do not support either Windows NT or Apple OS due to their limited resources. I was wondering as Apple users; how much more of an inconvenience is this to you. Do you ever feel like you are missing something the PC world has?

Thanx!
     
pjmurphy
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Jan 30, 2003, 03:41 PM
 
Can you list some of these websites? I personally havent come across any sites that wont let me "in"...
     
cwasko
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Jan 30, 2003, 03:49 PM
 
Coming from a web-programmer, the only thing that I found doesn't have the resources to make a webpage work with all the browsers out there is the people programming them. Not that this changes the laziness of some corporations to hire real web programmers to make their site work for most of the platforms out there. But I have not seem too many sites that don't allow my Mac browsers to enter. Infact, I can't remember any of them, mainly because they were not important enough to remember. I have heard of some banking sites that do not work with some browsers, but usualy using a Gecko based browser yields good results. I'd say the most difficult thing about the Mac browser experience is that you may have to rely on multiple browsers to do everthing. Theoretically, Safari should 'fix' this, but if the web programmers are too lazy to check for what a browser can do then you will still be limited.
     
icruise
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Jan 30, 2003, 03:54 PM
 
I don't remember ever seeing a website that required Windows. I'm sure there may be some somewhere, but they are hardly common.
     
iYoda
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Jan 30, 2003, 03:57 PM
 
I deal with mostly DOD and MIL related websites. These agencies use M$ technoligies for most of the websites. As a rule everything works great, even using safari. However, because M$ likes propritary code and uses "features" that are "best" supported from M$ clients I do have some issues. Most of these can be overcome by using a different browser. Some browsers support this function better and some that. Netscape is usually the rescurer, but I do not like Netscape as a whole because of its size and complexity. Safari will take over in my opp.

I can only think of one really important site that I could not use any Mac browser with. I wrote the webmaster the problem and he wrote back appoligizing and stated that as a Sun admin he hated the M$ based web system that they used and changed the propritary calls (J++) to something else (JAVA or HTML) and said if there were any other problems to just ask.

As a last result you can use Virtual PC, which BTW, version 6 is by far the best yet. Especially with XPee.

Regaurdless of this issue, It is still not a deciding one (for me) as to which platform I will use.

iYoda
     
k2director
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Jan 30, 2003, 03:58 PM
 
I surf primarily on news sites, and Mac/Movie forums, but also get around to other random sites quiet a bit. I have never had an issue getting access to any sort of web site, in more than 2.5 years (since switching back into the Mac fold).
     
iLincoln  (op)
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Jan 30, 2003, 04:10 PM
 
Originally posted by pjmurphy:
Can you list some of these websites? I personally havent come across any sites that wont let me "in"...
The sites I have noticed the most are radion stations. Example: 1360homer.com clearly states in the usage statement it will not work for Windows NT or Apple.

I am encouraged however with the responses I am seeing. I believe I will check this reservation off as well.

Thanx
     
Mac Zealot
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Jan 30, 2003, 05:24 PM
 
Websites? gimme a break.

Any website that uses an app that is windows specific is probably not worth using, if not, dangerous.

iTunes has a TON of internet radio stations and there are plenty more out there, if it supports winamp it supports itunes, simple rule of thumb.

There's ONE site safari doesn't work with on my machine and that's the bank, so I just whip out chimera, it annoys the crap out of me but until safari gives me the ability to 'fake' my browser, oh well.
In a realm beyond site, the sky shines gold, not blue, there the Triforce's might makes mortal dreams come true.
     
Homer1946
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Jan 30, 2003, 05:25 PM
 
Originally posted by iLincoln:
The sites I have noticed the most are radion stations. Example: 1360homer.com clearly states in the usage statement it will not work for Windows NT or Apple.

I am encouraged however with the responses I am seeing. I believe I will check this reservation off as well.

Thanx
Although I didn't look at it extensively, I had no trouble going to www.1360homer.com using both Chimera and Safari (I didn't try anything else). Any link I clicked worked fine.

-R
     
cgreer00
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Jan 30, 2003, 06:26 PM
 
the only place i have a problem with my Mac is going to listen to audio broadcasts of Indiana University basketball games. Yahoo has them under its broadcast.com site. It is a nogo for Mac and Linux users. They use windows media player, but my windows media player in my ibook won't do it, so they ain't lyin.
     
mousehouse
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Jan 31, 2003, 08:34 AM
 
there are several sites which have big problems with Mac support. funny but true. in Europe a lot of banking sites have problems when you want to use the Online Banking system (in NL its Rabobank and Postbank that i know of) but there are probably others.

and i read somewhere on how to tell Safari to change it's announcement. just forgot where.
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jindrich
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Jan 31, 2003, 08:46 AM
 
i'll tell you the true.

in Europe Microsucks has almost 100% of the market, and IE is in everyone of those computers.

to develop a website costs money.

if you have to make sure the website works in other that wintel and IE (like mac/unix and a zillion browsers) there's an increase of (10%-50%) development costs.

who likes to pay 50% more for the 0.000001% users?


Anyway, almost every web works perfectly well within macs. Still there may be some javascript problems, or some web that may render oddly, but you bet
(CSS implementation is a fvcking nightmare for us poor developers)
     
iLincoln  (op)
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Jan 31, 2003, 09:09 AM
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by iLincoln:
[B]The sites I have noticed the most are radion stations. Example: 1360homer.com clearly states in the usage statement it will not work for Windows NT or Apple.

I knew after I sent the post I should have added one more sentence. The problem is not with accessing the site, but with listening to live broadcasts. I think some who responded have experienced the problem and I apologize for misleading others. Still based on the responses it seems like a minor inconvenience to the Apple population. As is usually the case the exceptions are what always seem to get you.

Thanx (Looking forward to the release of the new 15.4" Powerbook
     
VRL
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Jan 31, 2003, 10:09 AM
 
Originally posted by iLincoln:
Do you ever feel like you are missing something the PC world has?
No.
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." (Kierkegaard)
"What concerns me is not the way things are, but the way people think things are." (Epictetus)
     
CyberPet
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Jan 31, 2003, 11:04 AM
 
I'm also "cheating" in the web building business and I'd say that those who can't build a web site that works on the most popular web browsers should be out of work! It ain't that hard!

I usually build sites with very little "mumbo jumbo" and then I'm sure they are working. But just to be sure I use several web browsers to check my sites in, plus I'm running Virtual PC to be sure that the sites looks the same in Windows as well as on my Mac.

So, *IF* any of those sites you visit often has some obscure script that is Windows only, then Virtual PC could be an option. Then you get all you want, and then some.

But before you go out and buy Virtual PC, email the webmaster and give him a yell for excluding Mac-users.
/Petra
     
jindrich
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Jan 31, 2003, 11:59 AM
 
hey cyberpet,

one thing is "cheating" in the web building business as an independent, and another is building BIG websites. With lotsa code and database management with Oracle/Sun/linux/apache, java/javascript/php.. not forgetting SSL and Secure Pay systems, or setting up ASP (Application Server Provider, not the asp language)..., you know, cases where there're a lot of people in the development, plus, EVERYDAY changes coming from old bosses/clients who dont know what a line of code is: they just see *screens* and *everything's possible*. (Try to ask an architect to convert an hospital into an elementary school, in 1 week).

in those cases, making webs 100% workable *everywhere* increases costs considerably. Some enterprises are willing to pay for it, some do not.

Blame Microsucks, for "reinventing" his own version of interpretation of HTML, and java/script support.


ON TOPIC, if you want to listen to radio use itunes, works like a charm.
( Last edited by jindrich; Jan 31, 2003 at 12:13 PM. )
     
Disgruntled Head of C-3PO
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Jan 31, 2003, 12:45 PM
 
Originally posted by iLincoln:
Do you ever feel like you are missing something the PC world has?
Yes. Virus' and security flaws.
"Curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough!"
     
cwasko
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Jan 31, 2003, 01:03 PM
 
Originally posted by jindrich:
if you have to make sure the website works in other that wintel and IE (like mac/unix and a zillion browsers) there's an increase of (10%-50%) development costs.

who likes to pay 50% more for the 0.000001% users?
Thats just the problem. They are lazy programmers. If those programmers actualy knew something other than the 'proffesed MS' way, then they could create the same site for the same price but actualy have it work on all systems.
     
SirCastor
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Jan 31, 2003, 01:10 PM
 
The Fact is folks, that the web is supposed to be universal. It's supposed to be based on standards that everyone can view. That's the whole beauty of the internet. Unfortunately this is one of the ways that Microsoft has abused it's power being in the majority holder. They first forced people to use IE, and by that inadvertantly forced Web designers to design sites primarily for IE. It's frustrating.

I have come across several sites that say that they do not work on a Macintosh or WebTV etc, the truth more often is that the site doesn't show up precisely the way it does on Windows, so instead of making an effort to fix the problem, they just put up a note that says "sorry, no go" when it's just not true.

I don't think you'll run into difficulties.
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cambro
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Jan 31, 2003, 01:47 PM
 
Originally posted by SirCastor:
The Fact is folks, that the web is supposed to be universal.
AMEN brother!!! If you find a site that says IE or any other browers only, then send an email to the webmaster. Appeal to freedom on the internet as in "world-wide" not "microsoft-wide." They who control access to information/content on the internet controls the internet. Standards MUST be respected and implemented!

Ok, philosophical rantings aside, I've never had any trouble getting to the sites I use (including banking, travel, games, recreation...you name it). A few chat pages my younger siblings like won't work on any browser in X. This sucks, but as pointed out, this is the webmaster's fault.

Go for it, make the switch. The tiny fraction of pages that won't let you in (if any) probably aren't worth seeing anyway.
     
petek
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Jan 31, 2003, 02:19 PM
 
For a company which makes parts for the scientific community, one place where there are still a number of Macs, you'd expect Upchurch's website to not have any problems, right? Try clicking any of the product tabs on this page:

http://www.upchurch.com/Products/prod_index.asp

Each tab opens a sub-menu (if you're using IE on Windows). As repeatedly stated: bone-head programming. Since they "improved" their site I now take my business elsewhere when possible, even though Upchurch's products are first-rate.
     
tooki
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Jan 31, 2003, 04:22 PM
 
Sites that don't work on Macs are rare. Very rare.

Often, sites are listed as "requiring" Windows even when they work just fine with an array of Mac browsers. In reality, they just say it doesn't work simply because they haven't tested it.

tooki
     
msykes
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Jan 31, 2003, 05:29 PM
 
Agree with pretty much all of the above... the only site I can remember going to recently which specifically stated it would not work on my Mac was MSN Photos site, and the only reason I was there was to try to convert some BS proprietary M$ image format!

No big loss not being able to visit it, especially since it didn't work properly when I got my hands on a windows machine anyways.
     
ngrundy
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Jan 31, 2003, 11:59 PM
 
Switched in november, havn't had any problems with interoperbility.

except people that still wave these 3.5" floppy disk things around

between Chimera, Safari and IE there hasn't been a website i can't visit yet. (chimera is my primary browser, it has tabs!)
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iChristopher
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Feb 1, 2003, 02:16 AM
 
From Cincinnati, eh?


Originally posted by iLincoln:
The sites I have noticed the most are radion stations. Example: 1360homer.com clearly states in the usage statement it will not work for Windows NT or Apple.

I am encouraged however with the responses I am seeing. I believe I will check this reservation off as well.

Thanx
TiBook 667 DVI - 20" Cinema Display - 20GB iPod
     
LeeG
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Feb 1, 2003, 05:34 AM
 
<rant>
Seems to me, it would be SO much easier for web designers to simply DESIGN THEIR PAGES BASED ON STANDARDS. ONE TIME.

Why worry about what browser people are using or what percent of the market you are appealing to - this is the beauty of the web.

And then put a line of text at the bottom of the page that reads "This is a WWW standards-compliant web site. If it does not render correctly, please use a more standards-compliant browser, or contact your browser manufacturer to remedy the situation."

Maybe if the throngs of lemmings start hassling M$ they will alter their browser to properly render standards-compliant code. (yeah right)

The IE stranglehold is stronger than windows - its the defacto STANDARD, and its free, so why even entertain another (as most windows users must think) So M$ has 'em in their back pocket, and they are forcing web designers to adjust to their program. This is wrong, and web designers shouldn't allow it.

Make the web free. Please code using standards.

</rant>

Lee
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The Ginger Rat
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Feb 1, 2003, 03:13 PM
 
Several games on Yahoo Games Anything that uses extensive Java applets (I always thought it strange that the word incorporates "apple") can cause problems.

There are some Web developers who deliberately do not bother to make their site work for Macs (that I actually know of). But I find in general it's fine.
     
pyrocat
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Feb 1, 2003, 04:59 PM
 
Quoth:
The sites I have noticed the most are radion stations. Example: 1360homer.com clearly states in the usage statement it will not work for Windows NT or Apple.

----
I'm looking for a new car. I went to mazdausa.com. It wouldn't let me in because I don't use an "approved" browser. I sent an email saying the I was considering buying a Mazda RX8, but couldn't get into the web site so I went to Nissan to look at the new Z car instead. I figure anyone who's selling something and can't be bothered to leave the door unlocked for customers should lose business.

2 weeks later, I still can't get into the main site, but there's a link to the RX8 page that works. Sometimes webmasters don't know what evils their software is doing to potential customers, especially if they don't know code and use M$ FrontPage.

90% of the time, disabling JavaScript will get you into a blocked page.

pYrOcat

---
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Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
     
Cadaver
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Feb 1, 2003, 06:55 PM
 
Microsoft FrontPage is the problem.

It produces such horrible code that only IE can read it. Between Microsoftified "Java" and Active-X, anyone coding with FrontPage should be taken out back and shot in the street. Even Mozilla & Opera for Windows won't work usually in these cases...

Coding HTML on virtually anything else renders a page universally accessable for the most part.

If a web page requires IE for Windows, I say 'em. They apparently don't need my business in this oh-so-hot economy.
     
Cadaver
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Feb 1, 2003, 07:04 PM
 
Originally posted by Cadaver:
Microsoft FrontPage is the problem.

It produces such horrible code that only IE can read it. Between Microsoftified "Java" and Active-X, anyone coding with FrontPage should be taken out back and shot in the street. Even Mozilla & Opera for Windows won't work usually in these cases...

Coding HTML on virtually anything else renders a page universally accessable for the most part.

If a web page requires IE for Windows, I say 'em. They apparently don't need my business in this oh-so-hot economy.
Quick follow-up:

Brief test shows that while mazdausa.com doesn't work in Safari or Mozilla, it does work in IE 5.2 for MacOS X.
     
   
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