[Fonzie]

Hey Fluid - I like your signature. Did you make a wallpaper out of the Omega logo ? If so, will you share ?

[Fluid]

Fonzie: I tried however the background of that teaser image is not one solid color and also the shadow is cut off. Hopefully someone can make one using the right tools. Anyone up for the challenge?

[Fonzie]

William Bart: Will the konfabulator widget be tilted like in the teaser ? I think it should be.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Fluid:
BBX: Any idea on how long after Omega is released BBX ALPHA will be released. Or is there more of a chance of Mirai than Alpha.

:: Fluid

I think he has learned his lesson and won't be saying ANYTHING about a due date for that one...

-Owl

[bbxstudio]

I'm considering blowing off support for Jaguar and supporting Panther exclusively in OSX... any issues/concerns/objections with this scenario? My plan was to originally release 2 versions, but I'm finding Panther much more flexible to what I want to do at this point and the Jaguar build is lacking somewhat in this regard.

[Tarambana]

Well, don't know about the rest, but I for one, would not mind at all.

[phillryu]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
I'm considering blowing off support for Jaguar and supporting Panther exclusively in OSX... any issues/concerns/objections with this scenario? My plan was to originally release 2 versions, but I'm finding Panther much more flexible to what I want to do at this point and the Jaguar build is lacking somewhat in this regard.

Dropping Jaguar is a reasonable choice... Apple has dropped it, and so have many other developers. You have to ask yourself; if you're planning to support 10.2, why not 10.1? They're both outdated system versions.

Besides, I'm sure that by the time Omega hits, most users will have gotten Panther anyway

[Fonzie]

I certainly would not mind if the theme was Panther only

[Hobeaux]

panTHER! panTHER! panTHER!

woowoo!

(jumping around like a uncoordinated cheerleader)

[slboett]

I would only expect as a user/consumer that if I bought software for Jaggy, and haven't updated to Panther yet, that they support my purchase for a reasonable time frame.
I think you can nix Jag support in this scenario, as it's not something people are paying for, and it will cut dev time, pleasing the ButtPods around here - me being one of them.

SB

[Sage]

Panther's fine with me.

[siliconwarrior]

What? You mean it's not coming out for OS9?!?

[MorphOSX]

Jaguar...Jaguar...isn't that a type of car?

Actually, i think that more than 80% of the mac community is going with Panther, so any stragglers on Jag really aren't going to be a majority.

Also, those who are on Jag for whatever reason, must realize they're giving up a lot by staying with an older system. (like OS 9 users).

just my tuppence

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
I'm considering blowing off support for Jaguar and supporting Panther exclusively in OSX... any issues/concerns/objections with this scenario? My plan was to originally release 2 versions, but I'm finding Panther much more flexible to what I want to do at this point and the Jaguar build is lacking somewhat in this regard.

I'm surprised you were talking about Jag support the the first place... You've got enough to worry about without making it Jag compatible.

[MetalSnake]

Originally posted by MorphOSX:
Actually, i think that more than 80% of the mac community is going with Panther, so any stragglers on Jag really aren't going to be a majority.

Actually, I think more than 90% of the computer community is going with Windows, so any stragglers on Mac really aren�t going to be a majority.



Your argument isn�t very good but I don�t mind if BBX supports Win or Jaguar as I only use Panther but for the Jaguar users it would be cool that their system will be supported.

[phillryu]

MetalSnake, remember that 10.3 is a newer version of 10.2, not a separate operating system. 10.3 includes only benefits, while the benefits or disadvantages of Windows vs. Mac OS X are debatable.

[MetalSnake]

Originally posted by phillryu:
MetalSnake, remember that 10.3 is a newer version of 10.2, not a separate operating system. 10.3 includes only benefits, while the benefits or disadvantages of Windows vs. Mac OS X are debatable.

ok, this is true, but 10.3 doesn�t bring only benefits, I for one HATE the brushed metal in the Finder as it�s way too big and I miss the better toolbar from 10.2 and 10.1

[renn]

i've used a windows machine for over 8 years, until this year, when it totally wasted a project i was working on, and which had a strict deadline. my work was gone, and that was it. i was always in love with the mac's GUI so i bought a powerbook G4 17". so i really don't give a rat's ass about Windows releases, I'm just waiting for a mind blowing Panther release. BBX, you just take all the time you need to finish your new baby, I'm sure that most of us will be very, very glad when it comes out. Whenever it comes out.

[Hobeaux]

Originally posted by MetalSnake:
ok, this is true, but 10.3 doesn�t bring only benefits, I for one HATE the brushed metal in the Finder as it�s way too big and I miss the better toolbar from 10.2 and 10.1

if you mean the shelf-thingy where you could drag icons and whatnot to the finder windows -- you can still do that. just drag 'em and drop 'em.

the advantage of the sidebar is that any directory that you place there is available in open/save dialogs. anything that you place in the shelf-thingy isn't.

so: put apps in the shelf-thingy and folders in the sidebar. happy happy.

[mrtew]

The toolbar really is better in 10.2 and I booted back into Jaguar just to make sure I wasn't crazy, but I've been missing it ever since getting Panther. The Jaguar toolbar was springloaded and I used that feature all the time. Months after getting 10.3 I still drag stuff up there and hold it like an idiot waiting for the folders to open. One small step backwards. Not worth having this theme delayed more while trying to get Jaguar support going though, in fact maybe it would be best to skip Jaguar too and just focus on Ocelot!

[rhythmicmoose]

Please don't hold it back for Jaguar support. That can come later, if at all.

Of course, you can hold it back as long as you want if you release that remote sometime really really soon .

[sushiism]

" the advantage of the sidebar is that any directory that you place there is available in open/save dialogs. anything that you place in the shelf-thingy isn't. "

the advantage of favourites over the sidebar in open and save boxes were that i could keep folders i never really visit yet i save a lot of work there in, like my university work folders i rarely browse them, cos if im working on something its prolly in my recent documents in the program, yet its a bloody hassle to dig down to it but god i wouldn't want it on my toolbar or my sidebar and thats why jag finder is better you have more options, plus none of that brushed metal nonsense/shadow errors/ugly select boxes

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by MetalSnake:
ok, this is true, but 10.3 doesn�t bring only benefits, I for one HATE the brushed metal in the Finder as it�s way too big and I miss the better toolbar from 10.2 and 10.1

Hu? The toolbar is the same just you have a side bar too... And brushed can be disabled with a haxie or change it with a theme. I have no clue what you're complaining about.

[H * � �]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
I'm considering blowing off support for Jaguar...

No problem.

[mrtew]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Hu? The toolbar is the same...

uhhhh...

Originally posted by mrtew:
The toolbar really is better in 10.2... The Jaguar toolbar was springloaded and ... Months after getting 10.3 I still drag stuff up there and hold it like an idiot waiting for the folders to open. One small step backwards.

[codywalton]

if you think the toolbar in 10.3 is too big, just grab that little dot in the middle of the divider and make it "small". works very nice for me, just icons.

[mrtew]

Originally posted by codywalton:
if you think the toolbar in 10.3 is too big, just grab that little dot in the middle of the divider and make it "small". works very nice for me, just icons.

I agree, but that's the Sidebar. We were talking about the toolbar across the top of the Finder windows.

[Ozzpot]

Originally posted by Fonzie:
William Bart: Will the konfabulator widget be tilted like in the teaser ? I think it should be.

To answer this first, (incase you haven't yet found out from earlier in this thread) there will be two versions of the iTunes remote, the 3D / tilted one shown in the teaser and a top-down one which has it's own desktop picture that it "locks onto" in some way. Apparently.

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Hu? The toolbar is the same just you have a side bar too... And brushed can be disabled with a haxie or change it with a theme. I have no clue what you're complaining about.

To join in this fun argument about Jaguar vs Panther finders, I agree with NetworkShadow. I really can't understand what everyone's complaining about either. Panther HAS got a toolbar, just like Jaguar. You can customize it in the same way as the Jaguar one (add, remove or move the various navigation buttons), and you can drag whatever you want there - files, folders, applications...
As for being "spring loaded", Mr Tew - what do you mean? You can still drag files to the relevant applications in the toolbar to open them if this is what you mean. I can't think of any significant feature of the Jaguar toolbar that is now missing.

The only way Panther is different is that it has the sidebar too (the benefits of which have already been discussed in detail). And if you really don't want it, drag it away to nothing! What is the problem?

As far as brushed metal goes - if you don't like it - uhhhh... change it! There are applications out there to simply turn it off. Or do what I assumed everybody did on this thread, and this forum, and USE A THEME!


Finally, to answer BBXs question: I think you should develop for Panther only. It will cut development time, and alienate only a very small and constantly shrinking part of the Mac community. According to a poll run by Max Rudberg on his site, 81% have upgraded to Panther, and that Poll is like a month old now, so I imagine many of the people who hadn't when they answered have now. Give it another month and I reckon at least 90% will be on Panther.

[Sage]

Originally posted by Ozzpot:
As for being "spring loaded", Mr Tew - what do you mean?

*Gasp*, a Mac user who doesn't know what spring-loaded folders are?! I'll save you, you poor soul!!

Click on a file, and hold it over a folder in the Sidebar, but don't let go. After a little while, you'll find that the directory will suddenly be shown. Then, hold it over one of those folders, and the same thing will happen, and you can keep doing this until you drill deeper and deeper down into the directories. It's a great way to get a file into a folder that's stuck inside of a bunch of folders.

And Mr. Tew is right in that the toolbar is not spring-loaded (while Jaguar's was), but I use (and love) the Sidebar, so I'll quietly step out of that argument.

[cSurfr]

Didn't I read somewhere that this theme was supposed to be releasd around the 5th ? I thought I did. I guess if it get's delayed 3 more months, it could be the longest running April Fool's joke ever.

[mrtew]

Originally posted by Ozzpot:
As for being "spring loaded", Mr Tew - what do you mean? You can still drag files to the relevant applications in the toolbar to open them if this is what you mean.

I'm curious as to why you say that. Either my toolbar (and Sage's) is broken or you are still thinking I am talking about the sidebar or you're fondly remembering Jaguar like I am, or one of us is crazy. But yeah, that's what I meant by spring-loaded... and my toolbar folders don't spring open when I hover above them like they did in Jaguar and I think it's a big problem. Not that I am going back or anything but to say that the finder is just as good as Jaguar's isn't true for me.

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by cSurfr:
Didn't I read somewhere that this theme was supposed to be releasd around the 5th ?

RTFTD (read the freaking thread, dude).

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by mrtew:
Not that I am going back or anything but to say that the finder is just as good as Jaguar's isn't true for me.

I like the new Finder, but getting rid of Favorites just because they added the sidebar was a silly decision (used to stuff my porn collection folder in there - now I've got to leave it hanging in a sidebar so the wife can find it? ). The biggest thing bugging me about panther are the stupid-looking labels (yes, stupid and ugly), gratuitous use of the ugly blue glowring (textentry, dialog content, and now icons - cripes, let's just make the active document window glow when Ocelot comes out) and the mishmash of metal and Aqua windows throuhout (now the preferences are Aqua? WTF?)... BTW, anybody got a link to the Metalfizer alpha that works in Panther?

[[ on a technical side note, I've noticed that increasing the width of the close widget resource has a cumulative effect on spacing with all left-aligned widgets - not that anybody cares ]]

[digitaljames]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
BTW, anybody got a link to the Metalfizer alpha that works in Panther?

http://www.unsanity.net/beta/metallifizer-13a1.zip

[cube3]

You finish the theme, and I will deliver a lifetime of free porn, all neatly packed and protected in a hidden folder somewhere

[onlooker]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
The biggest thing bugging me about panther are the stupid-looking labels (yes, stupid and ugly), gratuitous use of the ugly blue glowring (textentry, dialog content, and now icons - cripes, let's just make the active document window glow when Ocelot comes out) and the mishmash of metal and Aqua windows throuhout (now the preferences are Aqua? WTF?)

Your not the only one dissatisfied with the general look of certain things. It's like the general, or more like the overall appearance has digressed to past tech. The Icons now have that stupid square highlight when selected, and the color labels are ancient looking. The whole thing drives me crazy. It seems half hazardly thrown together.
If they wanted to do the colored labels right they should have went all out, and made the tabs on the folders change colors, or put a colored stripe diagonally across a corner of the folder or something. Anything would have been better.

[sushiism]

the labels are really ugly, looks like an xp type thing with its HYPERBEVEL under text nonsense. I know why they did it because you cant make a blue highlight show on a blue icon. Personally i'd like an option because i thought changing the shade of an icon was extra sexy and they could make the colours customisable too seen as its just a hue shift, besides what sort of moron would label all their folders blue anyway. And jesus christ brushed metal. Load up safari, load up camino and with a straight face tell me safari looks better. Brushed metal is depressing and pass�, it looks fine on iTunes but Jesus Christ not the finder/web browser and chat client. I wouldn't mind the sidebar if it wasn't just crap from the toolbar shoved on the side with some extra dumb things with them, i mean they could have had it like the itunes source bar like smart searches so "every photoshop file from the last week" or something THEN it would be a step forward but at the minute its a step toward stupidity. Personally when i upgrade to Panther I will be using all my finder windows in the os9 style just because they didn't include a simple option for a finder EXACTLY like jag's lovely one
+no brushed metal
+no side crap
+no border crap
+item number etc bar in the right place
+spring loaded toolbar icons
+same back/forward icons as before
+same icon spacing
+os9 style labels
+no ugly selection boxes

bah "new finder" is just so damn ugly and annoying

[Hobeaux]

..Personally when i upgrade to Panther I will be using all my finder windows in the os9 style just because they didn't include a simple option for a finder EXACTLY like jag's lovely one...[/B]

oh, that's brilliant. were you stomping your feet while you wrote that?

so. you're going to go back to spawning dozens of windows just because you don't have spring-loaded toolbars?

the sidebar *does* have springloaded folders (though it's broken on my machine ) -- it's the toolbar that doesn't. is that different? yes? is being different bad? not necessarily -- it's different.

personally, i love my new workflow. it makes more sense to have directories in a directory format to me -- they're always accessible from wherever i'm at (including open/save dialogs). when did a spring-loaded tool bar give you that?

[MacDog]

Personally when i upgrade to Panther I will be using all my finder windows in the os9 style just because they didn't include a simple option for a finder EXACTLY like jag's lovely one

That's just about the dumbest temper tantrum I've ever seen on a message board! Not only that, but we all know you aren't going to do it either.

[sushiism]

i just dont like the sidebar or the toolbar changes ok, is that too hard to believe? and brushed metal is too much of a distraction and takes up too much real estate to what i'm used to. the os9 style isnt that bad, i quite like it maybe because column view isnt my thing i prefer icon view, column view just reminds me of the windows tree view sometimes

[Ozzpot]

Originally posted by mrtew:
I'm curious as to why you say that. Either my toolbar (and Sage's) is broken or you are still thinking I am talking about the sidebar or you're fondly remembering Jaguar like I am, or one of us is crazy. But yeah, that's what I meant by spring-loaded... and my toolbar folders don't spring open when I hover above them like they did in Jaguar and I think it's a big problem.

Well... Sage kinda put me straight on what spring-loaded actually means: (Folders spring open when you hold an item over them e.g. to allow you to place files deep inside many layers of folders)... and yes, in that way you are both correct in that the Panther TOOLBAR does not do that. I'll take your word for it that the Jaguar toolbar did as it is not a feature that I have ever used.

However, the Panther toolbar DOES function in a similar way to this, if not as flexible. That is to say dragging a file or whatever to a folder on the toolbar places the item inside that folder (but does not spring the folder open to allow access to folders within), and dragging a file to an application on the toolbar opens the file in that application (if compatible of course).

Your toolbar does this too right? I'm using 10.3.2 BTW.

[OwlBoy]

MrTew, nice job refining your sig, lets hope no one notices.

-Owl

[Frisbee]

Sure, the finder toolbar isn't spring loaded. But the sidebar is. Resizing the sidebar to just so icons is basically just the jag toolbar, on the side, with organization. If you really can't stand it being on the side instead of the top... then... live without spring loadedness.

[Wickedkitten]

Originally posted by renn:
i've used a windows machine for over 8 years, until this year, when it totally wasted a project i was working on, and which had a strict deadline. my work was gone, and that was it. i was always in love with the mac's GUI so i bought a powerbook G4 17". so i really don't give a rat's ass about Windows releases, I'm just waiting for a mind blowing Panther release. BBX, you just take all the time you need to finish your new baby, I'm sure that most of us will be very, very glad when it comes out. Whenever it comes out.

Ellen Feiss? Is that you???????

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Wickedkitten:
Ellen Feiss? Is that you???????

beep beep beep

[siliconwarrior]

For those mourning the loss of Favorites in Panther, why not make your own favorites folder somewhere on your hard disk, then place an alias in the Sidebar - ooooh, spring loaded everwhere-access to your favourites!

Personally I never used favorites but I don't see why this method won't work almost as well.

As they say: you can please some of the people some of the time...

[mrtew]

Originally posted by siliconwarrior:
For those mourning the loss of Favorites in Panther,..... I don't see why this method won't work almost as well.

As they say: you can please some of the people some of the time...

Well, Apple could please a lot more people if they wouldn't force you to get used to one thing and just when you do switch it around again. There is no reason they couldn't have added all the new features of OSX and kept all the stuff of OS9. There is no reason Panther and Jaguar couldn't just add features onto 10.1. Etc. The constant pointless changes to everything are just silly and maddening. Don't we have better stuff to do with out computer that try to figure out new workflows to deal with Steve's latest whims? There are always workarounds, and hacks and patches and themes, but why keep messing things up?

[renn]

nope, i'm not ellen feiss..

[sushiism]

"Apple could please a lot more people if they wouldn't force you to get used to one thing and just when you do switch it around again."
exactly!
I wouldnt mind the new finder at all if i could just have one like in jag, i personally find the sidebar pointless because it does what the toolbar does but without extra features so i dislike it. I can work much faster with just my regular toolbar and have extra real estate and no brushed metal visual noise

[u2zoo]

the old "jag" style Finder window is still there in Panther - just click on the button in the top right hand corner of any finder window. (looks like a pill.. normally use it to change between the large/medium/small icons and text version of the toolbar area)

walla. still have to deal with the changes to key combos in the new finder and what-not... but you don't have to use the sidebar.