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TETENAL · Mar 2, 2008, 06:36 PM

LiveLeak.com - Hamburg - A320 nearly crashed during crosswind approach

Almost went wrong.

torsoboy · Mar 2, 2008, 06:45 PM

woah. looked like the left wing hit the ground a bit.

Is that a passenger plane? I hope not... seems like a much too risky landing for someone to attempt with passengers on board.

TETENAL · Mar 2, 2008, 06:50 PM

That was a passenger plane with 131 passengers on board. The winglet was damaged.

Horrorlandung: Orkanböe erfasst Flugzeug - Beinahe-Crash in Hamburg - Panorama - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten

Allegedly "many passengers didn't feel well" after the landing and "some were close to tears".

analogika · Mar 2, 2008, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

woah. looked like the left wing hit the ground a bit.

Is that a passenger plane? I hope not... seems like a much too risky landing for someone to attempt with passengers on board.

Crosswind landings aren't too much of a problem apparently.

But a crap-luck gust of wind just as you're about to touch down...

They closed down the airport not too soon after due to the storm.

Sourbook · Mar 2, 2008, 07:44 PM

That is one scary video. The whole approach looked wrong. The passengers and crew were very lucky to have a second chance for a safe landing.

P.S. Do people go to airports in bad weather to record takeoffs and landings hoping to catch a disaster?

Don Pickett · Mar 2, 2008, 08:01 PM

Should've landed at their alternate airport.

RAILhead · Mar 2, 2008, 08:07 PM

Thank goodness Desmond didn't turn the failsafe key, though.

/got nothin'

Eriamjh · Mar 2, 2008, 08:14 PM

Holy sh*t!

RAILhead · Mar 2, 2008, 08:16 PM

"First you say it, then you do it!"

5 points if someone names the source.

Art Vandelay · Mar 2, 2008, 08:26 PM

Bill Cosby

analogika · Mar 2, 2008, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

That is one scary video. The whole approach looked wrong.

That's normal - landing in crosswind is standard procedure.
it's the storm gust that hit just before he touched down that was the problem.

Check out this test:
YouTube - Airbus A380 crosswind landing

glideslope · Mar 2, 2008, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Should've landed at their alternate airport.

Yup. Unless they were given incorrect Xwind gust numbers. The PIC looked to be doing a darn good job until that gust, IMO. Nothing a few days at a Spa won't cure.

analogika · Mar 2, 2008, 10:04 PM

Alternate airport?

What's standard procedure if the nearest alternate airport is on another CONTINENT?

(This storm front went right across Europe for 36 hours...)

turtle777 · Mar 2, 2008, 10:29 PM

Holy crap

That did not look good.

-t

Don Pickett · Mar 3, 2008, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Alternate airport?

What's standard procedure if the nearest alternate airport is on another CONTINENT?

(This storm front went right across Europe for 36 hours...)

Just because the storm front is across the continent doesn't mean it's at the same strength all over. Local wind conditions also vary with locale.

awaspaas · Mar 3, 2008, 01:55 AM

I was on an aborted crosswind landing much like the video - not nearly as bad of a gust right before touchdown but almost as bad. There was lots of rocking to one side. They got it right the second time but that was no fun either. They closed the airport right after our plane landed. This was in Beijing in Jan 1999.

analogika · Mar 3, 2008, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Just because the storm front is across the continent doesn't mean it's at the same strength all over. Local wind conditions also vary with locale.

This is true.

However, the isobars are a clue that the nearest calmer alternative would have been in Southern France or Spain - over 1000 km away. Conditions were in fact terrible all the way from Scandinavia down to the Alps, in a band as wide as Germany in its entirety. This was a big system of lows.

moonmonkey · Mar 3, 2008, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by awaspaas

I was on an aborted crosswind landing much like the video - not nearly as bad of a gust right before touchdown but almost as bad. There was lots of rocking to one side. They got it right the second time but that was no fun either. They closed the airport right after our plane landed. This was in Beijing in Jan 1999.

Tell me it wasn't a China Eastern flight, same thing happened to me in 2002.

TETENAL · 01:08 PM

The copilot was a 24 year old woman.

The former Bundeswehr 707 pilot Klaus Tillmann criticises the crew for two reasons: a) he claims that the landing was unstable all the time and had to be aborted earlier. Also something about the correction angle (didn't understand that completely) had to be changed shortly before touch down and then the plane needed to be aligned again to the runway. b) the storm front had already passed Bremen which would have been available as alternative airport. An Emirates Airbus did that that day. This point is particularly interesting for analogika.

Source (in German): Hamburger Horrorlandung: "Richtig Schwein gehabt" - Panorama - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2745/undhp089zu5.jpg

Tiresias · Mar 3, 2008, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

P.S. Do people go to airports in bad weather to record takeoffs and landings hoping to catch a disaster?

Perhaps they go to see pilots pull off difficult crosswind landings.

Andhee · Mar 3, 2008, 12:55 PM

I showed this to my mum... she thought it was shocking. My grandparents were coming home from spain on friday, about to land at manchester airport, 300ft from the ground but aborted and took off again as the conditions were too risky.

analogika · Mar 3, 2008, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

b) the storm front had already passed Bremen which would have been available as alternative airport. An Emirates Airbus did that that day. This point is particularly interesting for analogika.

Interesting.

So it sounds like bad judgement indeed.

Dakar the Fourth · Mar 3, 2008, 01:14 PM

Indeed, indeed.

analogika · Mar 3, 2008, 01:15 PM

You're too late in pointing out the redundancy, AkDak.

Dakar the Fourth · Mar 3, 2008, 01:17 PM

Clever boy!

Mrjinglesusa · Mar 3, 2008, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Thank goodness Desmond didn't turn the failsafe key, though.

/got nothin'

Then why post?

olePigeon · Mar 3, 2008, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

P.S. Do people go to airports in bad weather to record takeoffs and landings hoping to catch a disaster?

That's their hobby when NASCAR isn't on.

C.A.T.S. CEO · Mar 3, 2008, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

LiveLeak.com - Hamburg - A320 nearly crashed during crosswind approach

Almost went wrong.

Holy sh*t, 'm surprised he didn't crash.

RAILhead · Mar 3, 2008, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Then why post?

Same reason you did?

MacosNerd · Mar 3, 2008, 04:41 PM

Wow, talk about scary - of course I'm heading out for a business trip later this week and that sort of thing is not what I want to see

glideslope · Mar 3, 2008, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The copilot was a 24 year old woman.

The former Bundeswehr 707 pilot Klaus Tillmann criticises the crew for two reasons: a) he claims that the landing was unstable all the time and had to be aborted earlier. Also something about the correction angle (didn't understand that completely) had to be changed shortly before touch down and then the plane needed to be aligned again to the runway. b) the storm front had already passed Bremen which would have been available as alternative airport. An Emirates Airbus did that that day. This point is particularly interesting for analogika.

Source (in German): Hamburger Horrorlandung: "Richtig Schwein gehabt" - Panorama - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2745/undhp089zu5.jpg

Looks like they should have diverted to Bremen then. Of course the fact that the FO was a woman really was not a factor. If she was PIC the superior male Capt. should have aborted the flawed approach right? I'll bet he was on the stick when that baby was climbing out!!!

The last second correction from the gust caused them to nail the rudder hard to line up. This assisted the wind getting under the (R) wing.

Too bad really. LH is a very well run airline.

higuy83 · Mar 3, 2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The copilot was a 24 year old woman.

If the airline was confident enough to employ this co-pilot, why do those descriptors (especially gender) matter?

-Brian

imitchellg5 · Mar 3, 2008, 09:44 PM

That was pretty insane. I doubt the integrity of the pilots if they didn't abort earlier with that shaky approach. It seems a little low for a Lufthansa crew. Living in Alaska however (when my dad was a bush pilot) exposed me to several sometimes worse landings. In one we broke a gear strut, which was great. I know there if the weathers bad pilots basically don't do a go around unless there's caribou on the runway, since that one chance might be your only chance. The passengers are always very good about it though and never complain.

voodoo · Mar 3, 2008, 09:56 PM

Nasty situation. However, they should have been diverted. ATC should have closed the airport sooner. I've lived in places where crosswind is as nasty as they come and indeed was chosen by Airbus for that reason to do crosswind tests on the 380.

IMO, as an armchair expert, the ATC should know that LH pilots are not trained rigorously for heavy crosswind landings. It's a situation that doesn't happen every day for four months a year on the European mainland, like in some countries.

Therefore it was an unnecessary risk to attempt landing, especially when a diversion was possible. Had a diversion not been possible, landing should have been postponed as long as possible, to wait the weather off.

ghporter · Mar 4, 2008, 09:26 AM

Holy freaking CHROME!!! That was the biggest crab angle I've seen in a very long time-and the only aircraft I've seen accomplish that big an angle was a B-52, which has steerable main gear to allow for that. That scrape in the tarmac is NOT going to buff out-nor will the finger indentations in most of the passenger seats.

"Mom, aren't I supposed to see things going by my window? 'Cause they're coming at me right now." Eeeeeekkkkkk!!!!!!!!!

as2 · Mar 4, 2008, 11:43 AM

I flew out of Hamburg the night before, in similar winds! The takeoff and landing weren't too bad, but the turbulence heading over the the UK was completely mental!

The girl sat next to me was freaking out, the cabin crew weren't allowed out of there seats, and they kept dropping altitude to avoid the 120mph winds that were battering our plane!

My colleague got stuck in Amsterdam from Friday night until Sunday afternoon because of the storm too.

Remind me never to head back from our European office on a Friday.

Judge_Fire · Mar 4, 2008, 04:01 PM

I was onboard a flight over the storm, from Turkey to Finland and we got some, uh, interesting turbulence even at the higher altitude. Wouldn't have wanted to be any lower, judging from that clip.

- - e r i k - - · Mar 4, 2008, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by as2

My colleague got stuck in Amsterdam from Friday night until Sunday afternoon because of the storm too.

I'm sure he hated it

as2 · Mar 5, 2008, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I'm sure he hated it

We'd just come from Hamburg which is like Amsterdam but for Germans!

Art Vandelay · Mar 5, 2008, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

"First you say it, then you do it!"

5 points if someone names the source.

Was I right?

Peter · Mar 5, 2008, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Thank goodness Desmond didn't turn the failsafe key, though.

/got nothin'

you're on fire tonight