[cszar2001]

Check it out: the Visby
How about a stealth G5 PB made out of carbon fibre?

[gorickey]

That's incredible.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by cszar2001:
Check it out: the Visby
How about a stealth G5 PB made out of carbon fibre?

My buddy works on ships and makes fun of this type of ship.

His big thing is "THE COLD WAR IS OVER!!!"

Most of the people we are fighting against have rocket propelled grenades as their most advanced weapon.

[george68]

The cold war is over..... for now. China, however, remains a superpower, and has enough f*cked up views on human rights, lots of nukes, and a lot of people... so we'll see.

- Rob

[DBursey]

On the plus side; small radar signature allows for stealth operation, light weight enhances maneuverability.

The big negative involves survivability. One hit from a surface-to-surface missle and this carbon-fibre construct quickly becomes a former stealth corvette.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by george68:
The cold war is over..... for now. China, however, remains a superpower, and has enough f*cked up views on human rights, lots of nukes, and a lot of people... so we'll see.

- Rob

I think his point is "They have nukes, we have nukes, I don't think a stealth boat is going to do much."

[Logic]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think his point is "They have nukes, we have nukes, I don't think a stealth boat is going to do much."

For Sweden it is "The west has nukes, the east has nukes, but neither one is going to use against us so lets create some kind of tactical advantage"

Not only is the Visby corvette great for military purposes but it can also be great in regular coast-guard activities to prevent smuggling.

[Logic]

Originally posted by DBursey:
On the plus side; small radar signature allows for stealth operation, light weight enhances maneuverability.

The big negative involves survivability. One hit from a surface-to-surface missle and this carbon-fibre construct quickly becomes a former stealth corvette.

IIRC the tests for Visby has shown that it is just as strong as the regular enforced steel hulls and in some cases even stronger(UNDEX and blast most notably).

So it isn't such a big negative after all.

[Peter]

Originally posted by DBursey:
On the plus side; small radar signature allows for stealth operation, light weight enhances maneuverability.

The big negative involves survivability. One hit from a surface-to-surface missle and this carbon-fibre construct quickly becomes a former stealth corvette.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by Logic:
IIRC the tests for Visby has shown that it is just as strong as the regular enforced steel hulls and in some cases even stronger(UNDEX and blast most notably).

So it isn't such a big negative after all.

RIght, but if it has a hole blown in it, doesn't it lose at least a degree of it's stealthiness?

[Sherwin]

What a crap boat - there's nowhere to put the totty. It at least needs a jacuzzi of some description.

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by gorickey:
That's incredible.

[DBursey]

IIRC the tests for Visby has shown that it is just as strong as the regular enforced steel hulls and in some cases even stronger(UNDEX and blast most notably).

This depends on construction methods as much as material strength. Studies I've seen contradict the tests you mention in terms of composite hull survivability. I'll try to find some of those later. That being said, I'm not an expert on composite material characteristics.

Peter: My sympathies. Narcolepsy is such a mentally disabling affliction.

[Logic]

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
RIght, but if it has a hole blown in it, doesn't it lose at least a degree of it's stealthiness?

Of course. But the whole idea behind this boat is to be able to strike first. That way minimising the likelihood of getting a hole blown in it.

[Logic]

Originally posted by DBursey:
This depends on construction methods as much as material strength. Studies I've seen contradict the tests you mention in terms of composite hull survivability. I'll try to find some of those later. That being said, I'm not an expert on composite material characteristics.

The newest material does rival and/or pass steel in strength, just look at F1 cars for a good example.

[DBursey]

You're correct in that a more maneuverable, less-visible ship with improved thermal characteristics possesses considerable operational and tactical advantages over conventional ships, at least on paper. I'm not condemning the ship's design, merely highlighting one possible disadvantage as compared with steel construction. There exists some question as to the survivability of a composite hull ship as compared with that of a steel hulled ship.

Material strength is one thing, overall design strength is quite another. Carbon fibre tends to shatter under high mechanical loading (such as that applied when an exocet missle detonates against or inside the hull). As well, the material really hasn't been subjected to long exposure to a marine environment. Time will reveal its sea-worthyness, if not its survivability in combat (we're talking about Sweden after all).

[wdlove]

Definitely very interesting. It's important that the US takes the lead in technology.

[DBursey]

Well, the Swedes are the 1st to have put a 'stealth' design ship into the water. The US Navy is working on a new class of destroyer, the DD(X), which is due to enter service in 2011. Like the Swedish destroyer, the DD(X) is intended for littoral combat patrols, not blue-water missions. Based on the info I've read, I'm still not sure as to whether the DD(X) series will be built using composites or steel hull design.

[olePigeon]

Too bad the whole ship runs on Windows NT. They said that even if someone does hack the ship, they can still fall back on manual for maneuvering... I was a little more worried about the warheads. But hey, if they can run around in circles, all power to them.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Too bad the whole ship runs on Windows NT. They said that even if someone does hack the ship, they can still fall back on manual for maneuvering... I was a little more worried about the warheads. But hey, if they can run around in circles, all power to them.

The warheads are not controlled by Windows.

Propulsion and various other ship critical devices are, but not the warheads.

[mitchell_pgh]

Out of curiosity... wouldn't the carbon fiber body be rather difficult to patch should it punctured. You would just weld the old stuff.

How heat resistant is carbon fiber?

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by wdlove:
Definitely very interesting. It's important that the US takes the lead in technology.

Last I heard Sweden is not yet a US state

[Landos Mustache]

Very cool. The old one looked cool also.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Last I heard Sweden is not yet a US state

It also depends upon what you consider "takes the lead" means. Building one prototype or even full blown ship doesn't mean anything.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
It also depends upon what you consider "takes the lead" means. Building one prototype or even full blown ship doesn't mean anything.

They have the technology, and it works too How and in what quantity it'll be used is an entirely different discussion.

[Weezer]

Its just like streetfighter the movie!

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
They have the technology, and it works too How and in what quantity it'll be used is an entirely different discussion.

Yes, they have the technology, but so could the Russians, English and Americans... Just because they built a boat doesn't mean Sweden.

also, please note The Visby Class corvette is the first vessel in the world to have fully developed stealth technology, combined with high operational versatility.

The US has a stealth ship (and I believe a few other countries are working on them as well).

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/navyw.../seashadow.htm

While I give credit to Sweden on an amazing ship, Sweden doesn't necessarily have the lead.

I would also argue that the submarine was the first "stealth" ship.

[Logic]

Originally posted by DBursey:
You're correct in that a more maneuverable, less-visible ship with improved thermal characteristics possesses considerable operational and tactical advantages over conventional ships, at least on paper. I'm not condemning the ship's design, merely highlighting one possible disadvantage as compared with steel construction. There exists some question as to the survivability of a composite hull ship as compared with that of a steel hulled ship.

Material strength is one thing, overall design strength is quite another. Carbon fibre tends to shatter under high mechanical loading (such as that applied when an exocet missle detonates against or inside the hull). As well, the material really hasn't been subjected to long exposure to a marine environment. Time will reveal its sea-worthyness, if not its survivability in combat (we're talking about Sweden after all).

I can assure you that both long exposure to water and strength have been tested. I can't go into any details but from what I've heard/seen it's just as strong as steel hulls. The material they use will become more popular in the next years(probably after the first Visby class corvettes are sold abroad).

And exactly because we are talking about Sweden it is very well tested in combat. Sweden has a history of developing state of the art technology that for instance both the US and Britain buys and uses extensively. Sweden has had to be prepared to fight off both western attacks and eastern attacks(Cold War) and therefore have put extensive resources in being independent militarily.

[Logic]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Too bad the whole ship runs on Windows NT. They said that even if someone does hack the ship, they can still fall back on manual for maneuvering... I was a little more worried about the warheads. But hey, if they can run around in circles, all power to them.

It would still be completely operational and not a sitting duck if the system fails but yes, I'm surprised they chose NT or any other OS that is known to the public.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Logic:
It would still be completely operational and not a sitting duck if the system fails but yes, I'm surprised they chose NT or any other OS that is known to the public.

While NT is questionable, off the shelf stuff is fine considering I doubt it's taxed all that much.

It would have to be able to drive without the computer considering many ships must still be EMP resistant.

[gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Logic:
Sweden has a history of developing state of the art technology

Beauty, ain't she?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by gatekeeper:
VERY BIG IMAGE
Beauty, ain't she? [/B]

I'm currently using a CMS from Sweden.

[Logic]

Originally posted by gatekeeper:
.......snipped...
Beauty, ain't she?

A beauty that kicks F-16's and F/A-18 Super Hornets ass

[gerbnl]

bleeg: double post! at last i gofigured out how to fsck posting a simple message!

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by george68:
The cold war is over..... for now. China, however, remains a superpower, and has enough f*cked up views on human rights, lots of nukes, and a lot of people... so we'll see.

- Rob

Yeah! Right on! And don't forget the USA, speaking about fscked up views of human rights, lots of nukes...


oh!... never mind!


Obligatory stuff: It ship looks gorgeous, but the name:

[Logic]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
Yeah! Right on! And don't forget the USA, speaking about fscked up views of human rights, lots of nukes...


oh!... never mind!


Obligatory stuff: It ship looks gorgeous, but the name:

It's named after a city that was one of the most important harbours back in the days when Sweden was a superpower. The corvettes get names after cities while the submarines get names after "areas" in Sweden, like the Gotlands class submarine that is the most sophisticated diesel submarine operational today.

[MallyMal]

[theolein]

Well, even if it's a total military failure, it would make a fantastic yacht (Think of that huge dance floor on the back there!), and I'm sure that Iceland could use one in its hunt for Whales of Massive Displacement

[Logic]

Originally posted by theolein:
Well, even if it's a total military failure, it would make a fantastic yacht (Think of that huge dance floor on the back there!), and I'm sure that Iceland could use one in its hunt for Whales of Massive Displacement

I'll talk to our government and ask if they don't like that idea

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Logic:
A beauty that kicks F-16's and F/A-18 Super Hornets ass

The Grippen is impressive, but Its not the plane, its who's flying it.

Sea Harriers 23
Dassault Mirages 0

http://www.airtoaircombat.com/backgr...p?id=24&bg=157

[Logic]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
The Grippen is impressive, but Its not the plane, its who's flying it.

Sea Harriers 23
Dassault Mirages 0

http://www.airtoaircombat.com/backgr...p?id=24&bg=157

Very true. But in exercises with NATO(acting as the foe) Gripen has a very good record. Unfortunately I can't tell the exact numbers but it came out as the winner in most scenarios where it wasn't outnumbered.

btw, great site

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Logic:
Very true. But in exercises with NATO(acting as the foe) Gripen has a very good record. Unfortunately I can't tell the exact numbers but it came out as the winner in most scenarios where it wasn't outnumbered.

btw, great site

Wait until the Eurofighter comes out!
Thats going to be one cool (but expensive) machine.

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by george68:
The cold war is over..... for now. China, however, remains a superpower, and has enough f*cked up views on human rights, lots of nukes, and a lot of people... so we'll see.

- Rob

what do you know about China?

You should look at the progress instead of the indifferences between you own country and China. You think it's a wise thing to do to apply american's gun control policy onto the chinese people where they're generally undereducated? That's the basic human right of your nation, right?

China is a civilization with five thousand years of historical burden, things just don't change (improve) over night. At this moment stability and control is the key to modern developement in China. In fact you should be happy with the attitude of the chinese leaders because they're showing nothing but respect to the western world, being cooperative on international affiar and not casuing much trouble for the alien countries, unlike those religious ones in the middle east.

Eight nations of nomad invaded China by the end of the Ching dynasty, and that just happened in not so remote history. China is capable of ****ing around but they're not doing so, and that's tell you the oreintation of the modern chinese people. Maybe you should take a look at that in your history material. If you wanna check out the latest human right developement by international scale, try the googling "US Iraq invasion".

[george68]

Originally posted by gerbnl:
Yeah! Right on! And don't forget the USA, speaking about fscked up views of human rights, lots of nukes...

uh.... where have you been? China has been a MAJOR human rights violater for a LONG time. They do not value human life like we do. They put a LOT less importance on life, and the government has a LOT more power (which is bad).

- Rob

[george68]

Originally posted by Sealobo:
what do you know about China?

I know that they have a LOT of people, nukes, and a pretty damn big army. Hence, superpower. Hence, the cold war might not be over.

- Rob

[Tulkas]

Originally posted by george68:
uh.... where have you been? China has been a MAJOR human rights violater for a LONG time. They do not value human life like we do. They put a LOT less importance on life, and the government has a LOT more power (which is bad).

- Rob

Since when did we value human life?

[Tulkas]

Originally posted by george68:
I know that they have a LOT of people, nukes, and a pretty damn big army. Hence, superpower. Hence, the cold war might not be over.

- Rob

Umm, no, its over. You might have the attitude that the poor little US can only rest when its democratized every country big enough to pose a threat.. which really wouldn't surprise me.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Tulkas:
Umm, no, its over. You might have the attitude that the poor little US can only rest when its democratized every country big enough to pose a threat.. which really wouldn't surprise me.

Democracy is like poison to Communism. Now that Hong Kong has had a taste, they aren't going to want to give it up. This summer should be interesting. I wonder how many will die in the large-scale demonstrations set to take place this summer?

Hong Kong will not be ruled by Beijing.

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by george68:
I know that they have a LOT of people, nukes, and a pretty damn big army. Hence, superpower. Hence, the cold war might not be over.

- Rob

So that's all you know?

Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. China's military force is NOTHING compare to the US'. Yes the Chinese has the largest number of force (3 million ACTIVE, in service army personels), but their weapons and technologies are nowhere near the level of the american. The Chinese are buying used weapon from the Russian because there are many import barriers of weapon for China from the western world, and those barriers are mostly tightened by the US.

And hey check this out, the US' lastest annual military budget is 50% of the world's total.

If that's how you identify a superpower, then north korea almost qualified. What the american government doesn't wanna see is another true superpower, strong in both economics (japan) and military (ex-USSR) exactly like the US itself. China is the best candidate right now. Having said that, the size of the Chinese economy is only about 10% of the US', so it's gonna take quite a while to the chinese to catch up.

[Sealobo]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Democracy is like poison to Communism. Now that Hong Kong has had a taste, they aren't going to want to give it up. This summer should be interesting. I wonder how many will die in the large-scale demonstrations set to take place this summer?

Hong Kong will not be ruled by Beijing.

You think communism still exist in China? Look, there is a ****ing Starbucks opened by the side of the Forbidden City.

And nobody is going to die for demonstrations. I went onto the street at 7.1 last year and it's all good.

Hong Kong will not be ruled by Beijing?... but Hong Kong will need Beijing's assistant for greater economical success. Even Washington has to be careful on words when they talk to Beijing. Hong Kong is already ruled by Beijing, people don't have a choice.