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tonewheel · Feb 27, 2003, 12:11 PM

I know this has been touched on here and there, but after having my wonderful new powerbook for a few weeks...

I was thoroughly disgusted to see that DVD playback on this computer provides the wonderul effect of dropping frames. I thought that kind of problem was a thing of the past. Particularly as my original Ti 500 plays DVD's beautifully.

And Apple didn't know about this prior to releasing these books?

dUbio · Feb 27, 2003, 12:34 PM

Did you report the problem to Apple?

MrK · Feb 27, 2003, 12:45 PM

You don't mention if you have the Superdrive or not. I don't, and I have had no problems with dropped frames. My Sony DVD has recently started choking on even mildly scratched disks, so I have been using my PB for playback and had no problems at all.

peternj · Feb 27, 2003, 12:47 PM

Did you try energy settings for DVD play back?

How much memory do you have?

You should report this as sometimes their quality control is not up to snuff.

I just checked again playing The Big Lebowskie and it plays smooth.

Report it.

PBG4 User · Feb 27, 2003, 12:55 PM

That's pretty amazing to me, since I have the PBG4-500 Rev. A, and I can play DVDs w/o skipping even if I use the reduced processor setting.

icruise · 01:21 PM

It seems to me that either there are some big variations in quality between machines (some working properly and some not) or there are big differences in perception between different people. I've watched quite a few DVDs on mine (mostly with an external monitor, which may affect it) with no real problems.

I think it is possible that the graphics chip in the new machines needs better drivers.

roders · Feb 27, 2003, 02:25 PM

Okay I'm just hypothersising here, but all the GF4MX Gos's on the PC have a HARDWARE Mpeg2 decoding chip.
This should make DVD playback ultra smooth IF it's being used, i.e has the correct drivers,
none of Nvidia's other cars has this capability, (why I don't know) so maybe apple hasn't got round/bothered to implemnemt this yet.
What I find inetersting is WHY Nvidia added this feature, was it purely to add quality to the DVD experince on these cards, or was it because they NEEDED this feature, for whatever reason, for good/satisfactory DVD playback?
I've checked CPU usuage when playing a DVD and I reckon that the CPU's doing more if not all the work.
This would also explain why DVD's play smoother in a window, as there's less data for the Cpu to process.
It's either this or DMA access isn't activated on the DVD drive.
(This has happened before on Mac's with the skipping mouse cursor on lod G4's with internal Zip drives (with DMA on these disabled) this was a prob with the ZIp drives themselves as it used to happen on PC's to.
One thing I find odd is that using my external monitor DVD's seem to play much smoother, as do games slightly to, maybe this is something to do with the refresh rate of the LCD?

tonewheel · Feb 27, 2003, 03:30 PM

To answer your questions...

My 12" is maxed out in every...RAM, HD...but no SD.

I just tossed in Full Metal Jacket. It plays just fine in NORMAL size, but stutters when I enter MAXIMUM or FULL SCREEN.

You mention DVD Power Settings. I don't see how those can be altered.

Thanks.

Parky · Feb 27, 2003, 04:08 PM

Go into energy saver preferences.

You can select Highest Performance, or better still DVD Playback.

U n i o n 0015 · Feb 27, 2003, 05:17 PM

We watched Star Wars Episode II on my roommates 12" last night and it played great. He has 256MB and the combo drive. No problems noticed whatsoever...in fact the movie played better than my PC ever did!

torifile · Feb 27, 2003, 05:43 PM

There's a definitie stutter on my 12" when playing full screen. I'm not the only one. The Apple support forums have a huge thread on this. BTW, combo drive/640megs of ram. Now before you go giving me advice on what to try, I've tried everything.

The stutter is slight, like blinking your eyes quickly throughout the movie. The first time I noticed it I thought I was just sleepy, but it's happened when I've been wide awake, as well. It's pretty subtle, but definite. I'm a little distressed that not everyone is having this problem. I was hoping it was software related. If not.

Parky · Feb 27, 2003, 07:02 PM

I have the exact same model as you, 12", 640MB, AE card.

I have been watching DVD very carefully since you posted and I have no issues here.

Do you have anything else running at the same time as the DVD player, maybe mail is checking for new mail or some other sort of process running in the background.

OB1 · Feb 27, 2003, 07:23 PM

I picked up my 12"Powerbok this afternoon. I have the dvd stutter. Its present throughout playback, more noticable during fast moving scenes. Its very slight, I didn't notice it at first, but its quite unpleasent. I wouldn't want to watch a whole movie.

I haven't dl the 10.2.4 update yet, any chance this (installing the update) will improve things?

torifile · Feb 27, 2003, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by OB1:
I picked up my 12"Powerbok this afternoon. I have the dvd stutter. Its present throughout playback, more noticable during fast moving scenes. Its very slight, I didn't notice it at first, but its quite unpleasent. I wouldn't want to watch a whole movie.

I haven't dl the 10.2.4 update yet, any chance this (installing the update) will improve things?

It didn't for me.

And I do have a whole lot of stuff running the background (as I always do). That shouldn't affect it at all. It didn't with my ti.

OwlBoy · Feb 27, 2003, 10:05 PM

Your right about it being in Full screen or maximum mode only that it drops frames...

I know it is for sure, and I know my iMac don't do it...

DVD: Final Fantasy The Spirits within.

-Owl

eevyl · Feb 28, 2003, 02:01 PM

I can definitely notice it very clearly in the ending credits of the Spider-Man DVD. The credits do not scroll smooth

Any clue if this is going to be fixed? Damn it!

peternj · Feb 28, 2003, 10:10 PM

The stutter is slight, like blinking your eyes quickly throughout the movie. The first time I noticed it I thought I was just sleepy, but it's happened when I've been wide awake, as well. It's pretty subtle, but definite. I'm a little distressed that not everyone is having this problem. I was hoping it was software related. If not.

[/B]

I don't doubt there is a problem. My experience with Apple is they often don't troubleshoot issues long enough but also their quality control is terrible. I was lucky and bought from an Apple Store and had to return my 12 inch as the screen was rippling, then they replaced it and the lid wouldn't shut and it was twisted my 3rd powerbook seems okay except I needed to clean install the OS as it was not accepting registration of DreamweaverMX.

So I know there are issues. And I feel lucky not to have dead pixels and to have a screen that does seem to play DVD.

Though I do have a Malata that will create pixel messes and that's a consumer player.

Give them hell. It's not cheap and we deserve these wonderful machines to be just that.

peternj · Feb 28, 2003, 10:28 PM

And Apple didn't know about this prior to releasing these books? [/B]

Well I had to look hard but I found the credits on a movie play a little jerky which would be in line with your report. There's got to be something about the VRAM and the CPU. Probably also the paltry RAM has some effect.

I don't think it will be fixed until the next version.

I find all mulit-media plays better on windows but I bought this baby for travel, DVD production, to be played on a deck or windows and because the keyboard was so great.

Our faults for jumping onboard too ealry. They will probably update the powerbook 12 inch with 64 VRAM in two weeks. Kind of thing they di when combo slot loading arrived two weeks after I got my CDRW.

Apple is great.

OwlBoy · Feb 28, 2003, 10:51 PM

Too early? so what, no one is sposto buy the first one cuz it is automaticly gonna be a POS?

Damn.

-Owl

The Ancient One · Feb 28, 2003, 11:16 PM

There is a long thread on this subject on the Apple site:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

I think Apple will have to come up with a fix fairly soon.

urrl5201 · Feb 28, 2003, 11:32 PM

I tried to warn folks, especially at MacWorld forum about this when the 12" models came out but folks kept insisting they saw no problem. I went to two separate stores and observed the same anomaly in both units. I have come to the conclusion that some fail to see it because they have never had the 15" Ti which can play DVD as smooth as butter, and the flicker in the 12" is so slight that I was still close to actually buying one. To me the flicker is not that bad. But since I am used to my 15" 667 DVI playing so well, I have decided to wait a little longer, maybe to the next revision, unless the 17" review comes out as "All that, and a bag of chips"...

Patcarla · Mar 1, 2003, 12:45 AM

The more I read stuff about the 12" PB on this forum, the more I see accumulating problems..

what's going on?? is it just because it's the first generation?..Anyway, I'm so glad I bought a tibook

.

roders · Mar 1, 2003, 07:04 AM

All the DVD's I have played are now stopping/freezing upto three times amovie for around 3 times a second.
The CPU monior does not go up at this point.
I don't think the Vram has anything to do with it, it's driver problem/bug in the DVD app with/or The Nvidia drivers.
As I said earlier in this thread I think apple has not written drivers that use the Mpeg2 decoding unit on our AluBooks (which should provide supersmooth playback).
Apples "interpretation" of Nvidias drivers is becoming a bit of a Joke, important (and in this case to me essential) features are just broken or entireley abesent, such as texture compression, FSAA (JUST fixed) and now this.
Sort it out Apple...

icruise · Mar 1, 2003, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Patcarla:
The more I read stuff about the 12" PB on this forum, the more I see accumulating problems.. what's going on?? is it just because it's the first generation?..Anyway, I'm so glad I bought a tibook .

I guess you weren't around for all of the discussion about the Tibooks, huh? And I don't just mean the first generations (which had LOTS of problems) but even the latest 1Ghz machines. If I had a nickel for every "fan problem" post...

My point is that if you were to judge every new machine by the posts you see on these forums, you would think every machine from Apple was a total disaster.

StiZeven · Mar 1, 2003, 09:32 AM

I agree with Icruise. My 1GHz TiBook had more issues than any other notebook I've ever owned and that was a matured product line with its last and latest revision. Of course it's not will all the machines, but lets not make those comparisons when glitches are consistent through many revisions across the board. I loved my TiBook and may be getting another one though work, so I am not dissing it.

I just tested a DVD on my MiniBook and I've not seen any issues that were discussed here. Then again, I am not sure what I am looking for? I don't see any flicker or jumps or anything. You think it depends on the DVD? I will say though that DVD playback is more clear on the TiBook in any screen mode. On the MiniBook it looks gorgeous in window mode and a tad fuzzy in full screen.

Does anyone know what drivers Apple has loaded for the graphics chip in the 12" machines? Drivers are everything on the PC side and I love when I can update them myself and know that I have the latest ones. I really wish Apple would stop this hidden driver/tweak thing they have going on. Without the proper drivers, the hardware can not function to its fullest capacity.

tomb · Mar 1, 2003, 09:47 AM

Yep dvd stuttter there on this 12albk--superdrive-energy saver on dvd playback-640 ram-nothing in background. I hope there will be a fix for this gen of machine, and not just on the rev. It is difficult to spot MOST of the time. My feeling is that prob all have same problem, its just not as noticible. For example watched children of paradise--old movie--very obvious. watched blade, not really so obvious, only so in the credits. just my 2 cents.

-t

tomb · Mar 1, 2003, 09:53 AM

one other thing, while im on topic. when i have aq dvd in the drive, as i do know, it regularly spins up --hence making the aircraft taking off noise--even when it is just supposedly in backgroud.

2 questions

1. is everyone's sd equipped machine very loud (i know its a relative term) when dvd is inserted, and then quiet down some short time thereafter?

2. does anyone elsee get the same sound occassionally if dvd is in machine, but not playing?

thnks

-t

OwlBoy · Mar 1, 2003, 10:05 AM

I would guess the SD noise happening when it is put in, then quitting, then coming back every so often is just because everytime is is newly spun up it will make the noise, or when it is spun to a new location.

My Combo Drive is quiet.

-Owl

Patcarla · Mar 1, 2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Icruise:
I guess you weren't around for all of the discussion about the Tibooks, huh? And I don't just mean the first generations (which had LOTS of problems) but even the latest 1Ghz machines. If I had a nickel for every "fan problem" post...

My point is that if you were to judge every new machine by the posts you see on these forums, you would think every machine from Apple was a total disaster.

I agree. Actually I was reading the forum at the time the 1ghz Tibook came out and followed carefully the long long story of the fans..I've a tibook and no problem so far whatsoever.

Anyway, my point about the 12" problems was double:
First, to get a positive reaction from the 12pb happy owners

Second, I was mentionning that the 12" seems to have not one major problem but a ton of different small ones likes screws, latches, dvd, etc...which is the sign of maybe a rushed release...

peternj · Mar 1, 2003, 01:13 PM

I am very happy with my 12 inc powerbook superdrive 640 RAM and Airport extreme.

The quality control though is terrible took me 3 books to get one that worked and I think this might be a problem.

I have not had the stutter people see but i have noticed that credits do not run smoothly to the top. I think it's a horizontal line/read problem.

But my own DVD SP projects play without a hitch. And the sound is very good.

I suspect it might be the drivers for the Video and here and there plain old quality problems with the drives. This happens even in mature versions.

I checked memory usage and even though 640 seems very little these days I haven't yet got to under 100MB of the limit. And the players takes up very little.

I am pleased by the product. DVD playing on a Mac has never ever been as good as Windows and I do not claim to know why. If my flashy new powerbook does not indeed play DVDs okay i'll use my Vaio for demo to clients.

mikerally · Mar 1, 2003, 02:06 PM

NO, I repeat NO, DVD stutter/dropped frames here on my 12 inch Powerbook AT ALL.

Even when played with TV OUT.

Am playing PAL DVDs BTW.

eevyl · Mar 1, 2003, 04:38 PM

Well mikerally, I can only tell you to look carefully. At first I also thought I have no problem with the DVDs, but I was watching the ending scene in Spider-Man (I can't get tired of watching it) and after that the ending credits, and the credits scroll is really baaaaad if playing full screen (not TV out).

Just look closely, the glitch is there, and I think it is in every damned AluBook.

icruise · Mar 1, 2003, 06:02 PM

Funny you should mention Spiderman -- that is about the only DVD I have noticed any kind of problem with. There did seem to be a bit of jerkyness to the picture at times. On the other hand, I have watched several DVDs in the last few days with absolutely no problems that I could see. I wonder if it could be somehow related to particular DVDs, as someone mentioned before?

SoBeLiZZard · Mar 1, 2003, 06:39 PM

I have the 12" albook, stock 256 megs of ram and combo drive... and i have the DVD stutter problem
it seems to be better if you set the res to 800x600 and then play the dVD at full screen. its a bit of a hassle, as it takes a trip to the system prefs to change and then once again afterwards, but it makes the DVD playback smoother....

there should be driver fixes for this problem soon... no doubt its an nVidia thing.

icruise · Mar 1, 2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by SoBeLiZZard:
its a bit of a hassle, as it takes a trip to the system prefs to change and then once again afterwards, but it makes the DVD playback smoother....

You could always use the monitors menu item.

elmer · Mar 6, 2003, 03:52 PM

My DVD playback is flawless, full screen or in a window, regardless of energy settings.

640MB 12" AlBook
10.2.4

AlbertDeschesne · Mar 7, 2003, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by Icruise:
Funny you should mention Spiderman -- that is about the only DVD I have noticed any kind of problem with. There did seem to be a bit of jerkyness to the picture at times. On the other hand, I have watched several DVDs in the last few days with absolutely no problems that I could see. I wonder if it could be somehow related to particular DVDs, as someone mentioned before?

I also played Spider-Man on my set top DVD player and there was a little "jerkyness" with the credits... Maybe it's this DVD?

mikerally · Mar 7, 2003, 06:28 AM

Well mikerally, I can only tell you to look carefully. At first I also thought I have no problem with the DVDs, but I was watching the ending scene in Spider-Man (I can't get tired of watching it) and after that the ending credits, and the credits scroll is really baaaaad if playing full screen (not TV out).

Can somebody give some feedback on whether they are playing back PAL or NTSC DVDs here? You know there is a difference 25fps-30fps right?

I'm telling you now, on all the PAL DVDs I'm playing back, I'm not getting any issues - I don't have the Spiderman DVD, and it's such an awful film (compared to the likes of X-Men) I don't want to even buy or rent it after having spent money to see it at the theatre.

I have to find a region free NTSC DVD if I want to play back NTSC.

Of course, some Divx's give me small frame droppage on MPlayer, but properly encoded Divx 5 files playback very well, even over 802.11g.

eevyl · Mar 8, 2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by mikerally:
Can somebody give some feedback on whether they are playing back PAL or NTSC DVDs here? You know there is a difference 25fps-30fps right?

I'm telling you now, on all the PAL DVDs I'm playing back, I'm not getting any issues - I don't have the Spiderman DVD, and it's such an awful film (compared to the likes of X-Men) I don't want to even buy or rent it after having spent money to see it at the theatre.

Oh well I wil try to make as I have not read that comment about the Spidey film

All the DVDs I have are PAL DVDs, Region 2. I will do some more research. In fact I have the X-Men DVD, maybe that one is good enough to be rent?

I will try to find a scene in the X-Men DVD where I can clearly see the skipped frames and tell you.

eevyl · Mar 8, 2003, 03:04 PM

How to see the DVD poor playback with the X-Men DVD

Just watch the very ending credits, the first row of them are one at a time fading to the screen, but after them a scrolling one comes, just watch the scrollings ones in full screen (without any floating window) and then switch to window mode. It is clearly poor when viewed in full screen.

This applies as well with any other film with scrolling credits.

CaseCom · Apr 3, 2003, 04:17 AM

Any update on this issue? Does the QuickTime 6.1.1 update have any effect? (Does DVD Player even use QuickTime? Not sure)

threestain · Apr 3, 2003, 08:04 AM

The drivers sound like the problem, as these are advanced computers - put it this way, if my old P3 500 can do it smoothly whilst doing other stuff, I'm pretty sure a G4 867 can!

But on a different note, and I don't know how much it makes a difference, but a large group of the best nVidia driver programmers were snatched by Ati just before the Radeon 9000's release on the pc. It used to be that Ati's driver were cack, but are now much improved, whilst nVidia's are suffering... suspicious no?

mcs37 · Apr 3, 2003, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by peternj:
I just checked again playing The Big Lebowskie and it plays smooth.

The Chinaman is not the issue here, dude!

mginsberg · Apr 3, 2003, 03:07 PM

I can confirm that I have had this problem on my PB 12/SuperDrive/640mb/Airport version and it has been annoying.

I read somewhere to switch to 600 X 800 and view in Full Screen and after doing that, the DVD no longer drops frames.

CaseCom · Apr 12, 2003, 03:27 PM

Updating to OS X 10.2.5 resolves this issue. DVD playback is now smooth at 1024x768.

(I know this is covered elsewhere, but I wanted to note this here for the benefit of those who might pull up this thread on a search.)

Thanks Apple!

macwayne · Apr 12, 2003, 07:07 PM

10.2.5 definitely fixed the DVD playback on my ALBook 12" also. Guess Apple did update or modify the nvidia drivers.

roders · Apr 13, 2003, 09:30 AM

DVD playback is now smooth/smoother for me now too on my 12" AluBook; BUT, has anyone noticed that the horizontal Black lines above and below the movie (16/9 Aspect ratio/letterbox mode) seem BIGGER than before anthus the actual movie takes up less space on the screen, (although the detail looks good, so maybe the "res" has not been reduced) regadless though this means theres less pixels for the Laptop to render while playing a DVD, and thus less likely hood of dropped frames and smoother playback BUT at the cost of on screen DVD viewing real estate.
I am I right about this, or am I, as I usually am; wrong!

tarkap · Apr 13, 2003, 07:20 PM

Has anybody with the dvd playback issues tried playing a DVD with VideoLan in OSX? It's open source freeware. It plays pretty much everything without relying on QuickTime codecs.

It even plays divx video MUCH better than the 'official' divx.com Mac codecs!

I use it to play back every kind of video on my 12" powerbook, although I haven't played a DVD in it yet.. Mine is a 12"/combo/40gb/640mb/AE. I really wish I got the 60gig drive now though

tonewheel · Apr 13, 2003, 10:13 PM

As the thread starter, I thought I'd chime in.

10.2.5 has fixed the problem. A-OK on all DVDs that previously exhibited the dropped rfame problem.