[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Seriously, none of you are taken back? Really? Am I the only one?

1. 15 months later, no redesign, and heavier.
2. Siri, main selling feature, only available to a few countries.
3. iPods... nothing? Just a white model... No Siri support at all?

No other real solid announcements at all. iWork for OS X way past due for an update.

None of this sounds like the Apple I know.

I, for one, am actually relieved. Tuesday suggests to me that my iPhone4 has another year in it before Apple starts to obsolete it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Hitler gets angry about iPhone 4S - YouTube

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

freudling gets angry about iPhone 4S - YouTube

fixed.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by l008com 

If this were something big, like a computer, you could say something about the case design. But iPhone (and really iPads too) have so little to them. The front is always going to be the screen, they are always going to be as thin as possible. There aren't very many options. How do you want your edge to look, and how do you want your back panel to look. The overall shape isn't a matter of cosmetic design, it's a function of what's inside.

Or to put it another way. The cosmetic differences between all of the iPhones are so subtle, who cares. I'll take 4x the screen pixels, 2x the CPU, 7x the GPU, and 4x the camera, thanks. Actually I'm comparing to my original iPhone so more than 2x CPU and 7x GPU.

Dude this is way off the mark. the iPhone 4 is totally different than any other iPhone. And the design, pin my opinion and others, sucks. Hard, sharp edges. It doesn't feel good in the hand. It's a tad thick. It looks like a smashed braun mixer.

The Nokia N9 is an interesting take on smartphone design. And look to HTC for some innovative work too. There's lots yet to see with smartphone design. Curved glass might be one of them.

[Wiskedjak]

There is certainly enough design involved to tell one phone from another, but, ultimately, they're all just rectangular cubes with some small amount of styling.

[Eug]

I personally don't think a bigger phone is desirable. I'm not 6'4" or whatever so the iPhone 4 already feels like a wide phone in my hands, esp. when compared to smartphones of yesteryear.

More importantly for the masses, if the screen gets too big, then the pixel density drops too much, and the uber smooth detail you're used to looking at on that screen gets lost.

The iPhone 4(S) "retina display" is 326 dpi. I could see Apple going to something like a √(3.200² + 2.133²) = 3.85" display. That could be done in a form factor that is almost the same physical size, but with a smaller bezel on the sides (and top), yet it would maintain that 960x640 display resolution with a pixel density of 300 ppi which is still in uber smooth "retina" territory.

Once you go to 4" or 4.5" with the same 960x640 resolution you drop down to 288 and 256 dpi respectively. So why keep the resolution the same? Because iPhone and iPad apps are designed specifically for that resolution, and there is no real good reason to change it.

[Brien]

Anyone notice that Apple is favoring the white model for marketing this time? Perhaps to reiterate it isn't going to be delayed 8 months?

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The iPhone 4(S) "retina display" is 326 dpi. I could see Apple going to something like a √(3.200² x 2.133²) = 3.85" display. That could be done in a form factor that is almost the same physical size, but with a smaller bezel on the sides (and top), yet it would maintain that 960x640 display resolution with a pixel density of 300 ppi which is still in uber smooth "retina" territory.

Agreed. And with curves like the Giga prototype.

[Eug]

Yeah, I noticed that too, and I much prefer the look of the white. However I own a black 4 because I got sick of waiting.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Agreed. And with curves like the Giga prototype.

Pix?

I actually prefer the 4 over the 3G design because the 4 doesn't slip out of my hand as easily.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Brien 

Anyone notice that Apple is favoring the white model for marketing this time? Perhaps to reiterate it isn't going to be delayed 8 months?

It's a good looking phone, almost a sin to put in a case. But Apple is making a point of saying "See?! It's here, now!"

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The iPhone 4(S) "retina display" is 326 dpi. I could see Apple going to something like a √(3.200² + 2.133²) = 3.85" display. That could be done in a form factor that is almost the same physical size, but with a smaller bezel on the sides (and top), yet it would maintain that 960x640 display resolution with a pixel density of 300 ppi which is still in uber smooth "retina" territory.

At a substantially higher price, though. Using the same display for the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4S means massive discounts to Apple from suppliers.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Using the same display for the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4S means massive discounts to Apple from suppliers.

Not necessarily.

Economies of scale become almost 0 when talking volumes of that magnitude.
Doubling volumes when you already purchase tens of million units doesn't do much in terms of fixed cost absorption.

-t

[Eug]

Exactly. Furthermore it would be temporary, during the transition period. After a couple of years, all units would be using the (somewhat) larger screen.

However, I suspect Apple will simply stay with the current screen size, unless units sold actually do start to plateau. Besides a few phone geeks on forums, I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain the iPhone 3G/GS/4 is too small. I have a lot of people complain it's too big though.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Besides a few phone geeks on forums, I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain the iPhone 3G/GS/4 is too small. I have a lot of people complain it's too big though.

Indeed.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I have a lot of people complain it's too big though.

Women can be so fickle.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Not necessarily.

Economies of scale become almost 0 when talking volumes of that magnitude.
Doubling volumes when you already purchase tens of million units doesn't do much in terms of fixed cost absorption.

-t

Who will be the first to post supply and demand curves?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Who will be the first to post supply and demand curves?

Uhm, yeah

What does macro-economics have to do with product costing ?

-t

[l008com]

Macro-economics: when you push one button and all of your economics get performed automatically.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by l008com 

Macro-economics: when you push one button and all of your economics get performed automatically.

"Touch me there, supply — I demand it."

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Pix?

Link posted earlier by freudling. The Giga prototype video is long and builds up from earlier iPhone versions. I suggest dragging to the 50% mark and starting there.

iPhone 5: This is our Design-Prototype [ENG Subtitles] - YouTube

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Economies of scale become almost 0 when talking volumes of that magnitude.
Doubling volumes when you already purchase tens of million units doesn't do much in terms of fixed cost absorption.

True. In fact doubling volumes probably becomes backward-bending because of the difficulties involved in ramping that much worldwide supply.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I actually prefer the 4 over the 3G design because the 4 doesn't slip out of my hand as easily.

Seconded. Much of the iPhone5 design speculation seemed to lean towards the iPhone inheriting iPad/iPod styling, which I never quite understood. The iPhone has never shared styling with either of those devices.

[l008com]

Try an iPhone 1. Those things are the most suicidal phones ever made.

[SierraDragon]

True. Mine committed suicide when I sat on it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Try a different laundry detergent.

[l008com]

The 1st Gen iPhone have no finger-grip at all. When I first got mine, it used to jump out of my hand constantly. One more reason I can't wait for my new iPhone 4S

[Waragainstsleep]

They were bullet proof though. Mine went down my stairs several times and my stairs are solid stone and about a foot or so high per step. Its still in everyday use now, gave it to a friend.

[l008com]

Really? Mine fell a bunch of times. It has rows of dead pixels, cracked glass that now has whole little chunks missing, and teh phone is so slow at this point, it's basically unsable for anything other than a phone.

[Spheric Harlot]

You're dropping it wrong.

[l008com]

The dead pixels happened when I dropped the phone while I was checking my email on my bike. I wasn't riding my bike, I had stopped, but when I dropped the phone, it landed on the iron trail rail I was on top of. ~150 pounds per foot. Not good. The cracked glass happened when I dropped it on a concrete floor and it landed perfectly flat face down. The slowness... I have no idea why it's so slow. It's been getting worse and worse. It takes forever to do absolutely everything. It's like a Mac with 256 MB of RAM.

[Wiskedjak]

Why the iPhone screen is 3.5":
3.5 Inches - Dustin Curtis


green area = average thumb reach

[SierraDragon]

Interesting. My hands are XL though, so a 4" phone might be perfect. And my eyes like the larger display better. Too bad 3.5" is what is coming.

[l008com]

I think I would prefer a 4" screen. I have nothing but trouble typing on current iphones. Plus looking at the screen would be better. But I think overall, people prefer the 3.5". Remember when the 3.5" came out, the original iPhone, there was a lot of "freak out" about how big it was. Apple could keep a 3.5", and have an otherwise identical phone that was say 4.25", and call it the iPhone XL or something, but I don't see that happening.

[chabig]

The only certainty is that whatever Apple makes it, someone will say it's "wrong". We know Apple really thinks about these things. They build the iPhone in what their thinking is the perfect size and people says it's too small. They build the iPad in what their thinking is the perfect size and people clamor for a smaller one. I think Apple knows what they're doing.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by l008com 

Apple could keep a 3.5", and have an otherwise identical phone that was say 4.25", and call it the iPhone XL or something, but I don't see that happening.

(emphasis mine)

I think that is exactly what will happen when the iP5 is released. And you can bet the plans have already been made even if they are not yet in concrete.

The current size obviously has been very well received so Apple must keep it (or a close variant) available. And there is also market demand for a larger phone; folks like me who want one badly enough to even pay the 4s-->5 early upgrade fee, plus new users. The logical marketing place for Apple to evolve to is to expand the choices.

Two sizes IMO is a given and three even is likely (a smaller iP also). The only question is when.

-Allen

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

(emphasis mine)

I think that is exactly what will happen when the iP5 is released. And you can bet the plans have already been made even if they are not yet in concrete.

I'll take that bet. It's to gonna happen.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'll take that bet. It's to gonna happen.

Did you mean "not gonna happen" ?

-t

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'll take that bet. It's [not] gonna happen.

What I said was "you can bet the plans have already been made even if they are not yet in concrete."

My intent was to state that whatever iP5 will be, the plans have already been made. I was not betting two sizes would show with the iP5, just speculating.

To actually bet we would have to have odds and a wager amount and that would be illegal.

If a legal betting mechanism did exist I would bet even odds that two sizes will exist within the next two iP5 versions (i.e. ~2 years). Like I said, Two sizes IMO is a given and three even is likely (a smaller iP also). The only question is when.

-Allen

[Eug]

I expect there will be only one large size, and it won't be more than 4".

[SierraDragon]

Do you mean only one phone size, or do you mean the existing size plus a larger size also?

[Spheric Harlot]

There will only be one size.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

There will only be one size.

Yep.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

(emphasis mine)

I think that is exactly what will happen when the iP5 is released. And you can bet the plans have already been made even if they are not yet in concrete.

The current size obviously has been very well received so Apple must keep it (or a close variant) available. And there is also market demand for a larger phone; folks like me who want one badly enough to even pay the 4s-->5 early upgrade fee, plus new users. The logical marketing place for Apple to evolve to is to expand the choices.

Two sizes IMO is a given and three even is likely (a smaller iP also). The only question is when.

-Allen

Jesus, are you for real? And italics, bold, and underlining all in the same post. Can you stop making yourself look like a blowhard?

[Waragainstsleep]

Apple doesn't like fragmenting its product lines too much. Other mobile phone makers produce hundreds of different models and replace them every ten minutes or so. It just serves to confuse people and probably overworks their engineers who end up wasting their time trying to differentiate one model from another instead of trying to make one as good as it can be.

Apple has been forced to keep its older generation phones around longer to offer a lower budget option but people keep predicting they will make another smaller, cheaper, less functional budget phone and I just don't see it. Apple makes the best phone it can make at the time and releases it. If you can't afford the current best phone, you can buy last years best phone which is still a close second despite any other manufacturers offering as far as most of us are concerned. (I would rather use a first gen iPhone than a non-Apple phone nowadays).

I really don't think Apple sees any point in differentiating for the sake of it by offering different screen sizes or feature sets.

Do we think the 3GS is still being made at this point or will Apple simply run down the existing stock and then EOL it?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yep.

Agreed as well. Wherepeople get these half baked ideas about Apple offering 2, 3 or more iterations of a product is delusional. Just a few weeks ago the whole Blogosphere was sure of a cheaper iPhone 4, and top end iPhone 5, and some... an iPhone Nano!!!

1 iteration. If they go with 4" then that's it. Personally, I don't buy the thumb argument above. Apple can make the phone thinner, and cut a bit of bezel away so the 4" is hardly any wider than the 3.5" phone. It'll be esier to hold being thinner too.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Agreed as well. Wherepeople get these half baked ideas about Apple offering 2, 3 or more iterations of a product is delusional. Just a few weeks ago the whole Blogosphere was sure of a cheaper iPhone 4, and top end iPhone 5, and some... an iPhone Nano!!!

1 iteration. If they go with 4" then that's it. Personally, I don't buy the thumb argument above. Apple can make the phone thinner, and cut a bit of bezel away so the 4" is hardly any wider than the 3.5" phone. It'll be esier to hold being thinner too.

You mean like when they didn't offer several iterations of the iPod?

It's not unprecedented for Apple to diversify a product line.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

You mean like when they didn't offer several iterations of the iPod?

It's not unprecedented for Apple to diversify a product line.

The iPhone has been on the market for 4 years. Within just a few years they started diversifying the iPod product line. They had a reason. The classic was too big for excercise use. Yet, that is a big use, not just for people wanting their entire music collection on one rig.

There is no reason to offer a sport version iPhone, or mini iPhone.

Apple keeps all of its product lines simple. That's reality. They will only make the iPhone bigger to accomodate a bigger screen. The smartphone is the convergent device.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The iPhone has been on the market for 4 years. Within just a few years they started diversifying the iPod product line. They had a reason. The classic was too big for excercise use. Yet, that is a big use, not just for people wanting their entire music collection on one rig.

There is no reason to offer a sport version iPhone, or mini iPhone.

Apple keeps all of its product lines simple. That's reality. They will only make the iPhone bigger to accomodate a bigger screen. The smartphone is the convergent device.

I'm just saying', the argument that Apple doesn't diversify it's products lines is bunk.

The reality: Apple often knows our needs before we do ... and if they don't, they're very good at convincing us that we desperately need something that we never knew we needed.

Just because *you* don't see a need for a diversified iPhone line, doesn't mean Apple doesn't see such a need.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'm just saying', the argument that Apple doesn't diversify it's products lines is bunk.

The reality: Apple often knows our needs before we do ... and if they don't, they're very good at convincing us that we desperately need something that we never knew we needed.

Just because *you* don't see a need for a diversified iPhone line, doesn't mean Apple doesn't see such a need.

Ya, and after 4 years there's still only 1 iPhone.

[SierraDragon]

Too bad we cannot bet. IMO diversification of phones in the future makes classic, solid product evolution sense. Some disagree, and that is fine. We can revisit in 3 years and see what evolved.

Perhaps phones will remain one size, but to say Apple does not do that is frankly ridiculous (emphasis for freudnot). Apple diversified Macs, Apple diversified iPods and the concept is classic product development.

-Allen