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Ken_F2 · Jun 17, 2002, 02:53 PM

Detailed instructions to duplicate the MacOSX appearance and interface in WIndows are available on <a href="http://www.therealduckie.com/main.html" target="_blank">this page</a>, courtesy of Duckie. It changes the OS skin, boot screen, login screen, sounds, fonts, and cursors to those found in OSX. It also gets you a bar with that is functionally identical to the dock. Although not shown in the screen, it is now also possible to completely duplicate the OSX shadows and transparency in Windows XP (although that requires the latest version of a shareware program called WindowsFX).

<a href="http://www.therealduckie.com/images/duckie060302.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.therealduckie.com/images/duckie060302.jpg</a>

[img->link]

[ 06-18-2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: gorgonzola ]

Ken_F2 · Jun 17, 2002, 03:05 PM

Here's another one, albeit with a different [ugly] font...this one shows the WindowsFX loaded for the shadows on Windows XP. The dock is set to hidden.

<a href="http://www.aqua-soft.org/images/AquaWindows.PNG" target="_blank">http://www.aqua-soft.org/images/AquaWindows.PNG</a>

[ 06-18-2002, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: gorgonzola ]

00101001 · Jun 17, 2002, 03:06 PM

Wow, that's pretty amazing... you've got to give credit to the guys who can figure out how to make windows look like that! But, damn - did you read the instructions??? THAT'S why I like the Mac

KaptainKaya · Jun 17, 2002, 03:09 PM

Now thats just sad.

::maroma:: · Jun 17, 2002, 03:09 PM

How about making those screenshots a little smaller, eh?

And why is it that Windows users want to make their OS look EXACTLY like Mac OS X so badly? Weren't they just recently standing tall on their soapboxes and calling OS X's UI childish and candy-like?

KellyHogan · Jun 17, 2002, 03:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ::maroma:::
How about making those screenshots a little smaller, eh?

And why is it that Windows users want to make their OS look EXACTLY like Mac OS X so badly? Weren't they just recently standing tall on their soapboxes and calling OS X's UI childish and candy-like?<hr /></blockquote>For the same reason OSX users have created themes based on NeXT, Classic, Windows and all sorts of funny chrome, flourescent and jelly colors.

People want to hack their systems and don't want companies to control what they buy. It's the free spirit.

starfleetX · Jun 17, 2002, 03:30 PM

Okay.

So it looks like Mac OS X...
...but does it act like Mac OS X?

edit: OMG, I just noticed the window title bars don't use real transparency. How ugly! <img src="http://forums.appleinsider.com/ubb/graemlins/lol.gif" alt=" - " /> They go to such lengths and can't get something as simple as that right?

[ 06-17-2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

KellyHogan · Jun 17, 2002, 03:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by starfleetX:
Okay.

So it looks like Mac OS X...
...but does it act like Mac OS X?

<hr /></blockquote>Act? You mean target practice in Finder column view, spinning wheel, sluggish switching between windows and jerky resizing?

Other than that, you double click on a file, it opens. You use the application. You close the application by clicking on a widget with an X mark. How is it supposed to act?

starfleetX · Jun 17, 2002, 04:16 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Act? You mean target practice in Finder column view, spinning wheel, sluggish switching between windows and jerky resizing?

Other than that, you double click on a file, it opens. You use the application. You close the application by clicking on a widget with an X mark. How is it supposed to act?<hr /></blockquote>Oh poor Kelly Hogan. I've tried so hard to avoid the temptation of replying
to your posts lately, but seeing as this one is directed at me personally...

----------

Does the toolbar work like in Mac OS X? Is it easily configured by drag and
drop (with items sliding into position) and through a dialog similar to a
sheet?

Are the columns in apps like Mail customizable? Again, does the drag-and
drop metaphor translate over for those columns? How can you tell (without
reading through the actual headers below) if a column is sorted ascending
or descending?

Can the Finder columns be adjusted manually? Is the Finder toolbar
customizable? Via drag-and-drop? Via a dialog? Does the toolbar have
options for icon only, text only, and both? Can you grad a file to an icon
in the toolbar and drop the file into the corresponding folder?

Do window widgets act as they should? Does yellow minimize to the Dock?
Does the toolbar widget hide and show the toolbar? When you hold a modifier
key, does clicking the toolbar widget change between the toolbar modes?

Does the window layering and foreground/background metaphor translate over?
Clearly not. In those pictures, every window shows its widgets as if it was
the frontmost window. Also, the contact list is clearly layered behind
windows, but its title bar claims to be in the front. Furthermore, the
global menu bar casts a shadow on everything.

Do scroll bars act as they should? In those pictures, some are doubled and
some are not.

Does the Dock act as it should? How can you tell what apps are active and
what apps aren't? Why if the AppleWorks icon is magnified do none of the
other icons moved aside? How can the cursor be over the AppleWorks icon
and the menu for the home icon?

----------

KH, this just begins to scratch the surface of how Mac OS X's Aqua behaves
differently than Windows. I doubt those themes could have brought this much
functionality to Windows. Sure, they can mimic the look of the Mac OS X
experience, but they can't completely copy it.

[edited to add line breaks for easier reading -- someone change those damn pictures to links or thumbnails!!]

[ 06-17-2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

voodoo · Jun 17, 2002, 04:39 PM

How the heck can iTunes be running on a Win2K system? Hmmmm??

unfaded · Jun 17, 2002, 04:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by starfleetX:
[QUOTE]

*snip*

<hr /></blockquote>Absolutely perfect, starfleetX. If you look at the snapshots - there is a lot of crap, like mini-titlebars for programmes, the OmniWeb toolbar is ****e, and the dock has this abnormally huge, transparent icon next to a bunch of small ones. While it looks like Mac OS X, it looks like Mac OS X minus any of the cool stuff or refinements of Mac OS X. Pre-Developer Releases is what it looks like. While it's cool that there are windows users who are going through incredible lengths to make their computers look like macs, they fell short, and it's just not the same.

I almost prefer Luna's interface, only because if I used this interface, I'd constantly complain about it's not right. At least Luna is far different and ugly.

(Edit: It sounded like I was praising it at first)

[ 06-17-2002, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: unfaded ]

starfleetX · Jun 17, 2002, 04:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by voodoo:
How the heck can iTunes be running on a Win2K system? Hmmmm??<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" /> Umm, you could say the same about Finder, Dock, Mail, and OmniWeb. It's a
skin (or theme, whatever). My guess is that that is a skin for WinAmp or
some other regular audio player.

Mac Zealot · Jun 17, 2002, 04:46 PM

Does windows xp with windows fx have a terminal that can easily edit anything you want?

Didn't think so. If you want to program you have to buy .net.

You're all in denial that windows sucks arse, just trying to make it look bett4er than the ****e it really is.

KellyHogan · Jun 17, 2002, 04:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by starfleetX:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Act? You mean target practice in Finder column view, spinning wheel, sluggish switching between windows and jerky resizing?

Other than that, you double click on a file, it opens. You use the application. You close the application by clicking on a widget with an X mark. How is it supposed to act?<hr /></blockquote>Oh poor Kelly Hogan. I've tried so hard to avoid the temptation of replying
to your posts lately, but seeing as this one is directed at me personally...

----------

Does the toolbar work like in Mac OS X? Is it easily configured by drag and
drop (with items sliding into position) and through a dialog similar to a
sheet?

Are the columns in apps like Mail customizable? Again, does the drag-and
drop metaphor translate over for those columns? How can you tell (without
reading through the actual headers below) if a column is sorted ascending
or descending?

Can the Finder columns be adjusted manually? Is the Finder toolbar
customizable? Via drag-and-drop? Via a dialog? Does the toolbar have
options for icon only, text only, and both? Can you grad a file to an icon
in the toolbar and drop the file into the corresponding folder?

Do window widgets act as they should? Does yellow minimize to the Dock?
Does the toolbar widget hide and show the toolbar? When you hold a modifier
key, does clicking the toolbar widget change between the toolbar modes?

Does the window layering and foreground/background metaphor translate over?
Clearly not. In those pictures, every window shows its widgets as if it was
the frontmost window. Also, the contact list is clearly layered behind
windows, but its title bar claims to be in the front. Furthermore, the
global menu bar casts a shadow on everything.

Do scroll bars act as they should? In those pictures, some are doubled and
some are not.

Does the Dock act as it should? How can you tell what apps are active and
what apps aren't? Why if the AppleWorks icon is magnified do none of the
other icons moved aside? How can the cursor be over the AppleWorks icon
and the menu for the home icon?

----------

KH, this just begins to scratch the surface of how Mac OS X's Aqua behaves
differently than Windows. I doubt those themes could have brought this much
functionality to Windows. Sure, they can mimic the look of the Mac OS X
experience, but they can't completely copy it.

[edited to add line breaks for easier reading -- someone change those damn pictures to links or thumbnails!!]<hr /></blockquote>Sorry it took me a while to reply. I pressed on Reply but the wheel just span up and I got locked out.

Toolbar - I don't give a **** about because I don't use it. My apps are on the dock, my drives are on the desktop and most other functions should be available with a keyboard shortcut or happen automatically (such as inserting a blank CDRW and being presented with Disk Burner). Likewise in Windows, I disable the toolbar completely because I just don't use it. If I do use it on either system then it is for the backward and forward (missing from OSX) arrows.

Mail I don't give a **** about because i use Entourage or Mozilla. Entourage has extremely flexible view options for a PIM.

Finder columns? Well you can adjust Windows Explorer columns so what is the point to the question? At least there is decent file management instead of target practice.

Do the widgets act as they should? Yes. Not only that but at least I can minimize and maximize properly. Does close function? Well, yes. Would I prefer the maximize widget to crop the screen rather than fill the screen? No. I and many others want the whole screen filled when pressing maximize otherwise it wouldn't be called 'maximize'. How do I get a full screen window with a Mac app?

Does the Dock work? Well, can't speak for that one above but I'm not a great fan of the Dock anyway. I would like to stick the apps on another part of the screen and just have a seperate bar for minimizing too.

Again, I'm not talking about that theme above. Just general behavior of a couple of OSes.

KellyHogan · Jun 17, 2002, 04:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
Does windows xp with windows fx have a terminal that can easily edit anything you want?

Didn't think so. If you want to program you have to buy .net.
<hr /></blockquote>You want to edit anything you want? Adjust any effects? That's ot Windows f/x job. Go to System Properties/Advanced/Performance/Visual Settings and adjust anything you want. Then go to Display Properties/Themes for adjusting any themes.

Windows f/x is something completely different to what you are thinking. It is a tiny app, part of the Object X package. It is for adjusting transparencies and other f/x. I have the whole Desktop/Object X package but only use a few apps from it. I use the Sosumi theme, spring loaded folders. Amazing. Fast, snappy spring loaded folders.

starfleetX · Jun 17, 2002, 05:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Again, I'm not talking about that theme above. Just general behavior of a couple of OSes.<hr /></blockquote>Then why did you even bother to post? This thread is about the above theme and how it copies OSX.
Where did you get the idea that anyone was talking about OSes in general?

[ 06-17-2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

spectre · Jun 17, 2002, 05:07 PM

"Do the widgets act as they should? Yes. Not only that but at least I can minimize and maximize properly. Does close function? Well, yes. Would I prefer the maximize widget to crop the screen rather than fill the screen? No. I and many others want the whole screen filled when pressing maximize otherwise it wouldn't be called 'maximize'. How do I get a full screen window with a Mac app?"

Try option clicking the button (maximize button or whatever its called).

KellyHogan · Jun 17, 2002, 05:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by starfleetX:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Again, I'm not talking about that theme above. Just general behavior of a couple of OSes.<hr /></blockquote>Then why did you even bother to post? This thread is about the above theme and how it copies OSX.
<hr /></blockquote>This is more example of Mac fanaticism. The 'theme' does not copy OSX. It is an OSX theme. Get it? It's a bit dumb to say an OSX theme is copying OSX.

KellyHogan · Jun 17, 2002, 05:31 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by spectre:
"Do the widgets act as they should? Yes. Not only that but at least I can minimize and maximize properly. Does close function? Well, yes. Would I prefer the maximize widget to crop the screen rather than fill the screen? No. I and many others want the whole screen filled when pressing maximize otherwise it wouldn't be called 'maximize'. How do I get a full screen window with a Mac app?"

Try option clicking the button (maximize button or whatever its called).<hr /></blockquote>I have to hold down buttons and click and you call this simplicity?

starfleetX · Jun 17, 2002, 05:39 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
This is more example of Mac fanaticism. The 'theme' does not copy OSX. It is an OSX theme. Get it? It's a bit dumb to say an OSX theme is copying OSX.<hr /></blockquote>I just love how you change the subject to avoid answering questions.
I bet you'd make a great politician.

seb2 · Jun 17, 2002, 05:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by spectre:
"Do the widgets act as they should? Yes. Not only that but at least I can minimize and maximize properly. Does close function? Well, yes. Would I prefer the maximize widget to crop the screen rather than fill the screen? No. I and many others want the whole screen filled when pressing maximize otherwise it wouldn't be called 'maximize'. How do I get a full screen window with a Mac app?"

Try option clicking the button (maximize button or whatever its called).<hr /></blockquote>I have to hold down buttons and click and you call this simplicity?<hr /></blockquote>you're not serious, are you?

who is the "many others"? i don't know any mac user who wants windows just to go full screen when you click on the maximize button (i think it's "officially" called something else). how would you drag links in a browser from one window to another (i do that all the time), how would you in general drag and drop stuff from one app to another? (not too much of a conern under windows, i agree, drag & drop is by far better on mac os)

also, it's just a waste of space. since most web designers also have to think of people with smaller monitors, most pages just have a wide white margin on my ti's screen. why be presented with empty space when i can actually see something useful like another window in the same space?

please, using everything in full screen is windows. i guess they do that because from a programmatic point of view, it's way easier than to calculate the size needed to just display the contents of a window which is what the mac does -- i admit, this doesn't always work perfectly in present incarnations of os x, but there's always hope for 10.2...

nforcer · Jun 17, 2002, 06:26 PM

In response to "How to make Windows just like OSX" it's easy! Just give Microsoft a few years to do some more copying...

Oh wait, now that the screenshots have loaded, I see. Microsoft should hire these people. They could double their Macintosh rip-off ability instantly

Part of me feels happy that so many people think of the Mac highly enough to steal from it. But part of me can't help but wonder how many people will use this theme and think it's just like a Mac, instead of buying a Mac, supporting Apple, and using something that IS a Mac. It's interface piracy/interface bastardization. But that aside, it is the best OS X theme on Windows I've seen. Except...

Does the blue screen of death look just like a kernel panic, too?

(snicker)

mrtew · Jun 17, 2002, 07:21 PM

I'm not getting anything at that link. Either my OSX browser is a piece of crap or the Apple lawyers already got to them!

kmkkid · Jun 17, 2002, 07:27 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by seb2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by spectre:
"Do the widgets act as they should? Yes. Not only that but at least I can minimize and maximize properly. Does close function? Well, yes. Would I prefer the maximize widget to crop the screen rather than fill the screen? No. I and many others want the whole screen filled when pressing maximize otherwise it wouldn't be called 'maximize'. How do I get a full screen window with a Mac app?"

Try option clicking the button (maximize button or whatever its called).<hr /></blockquote>I have to hold down buttons and click and you call this simplicity?<hr /></blockquote>you're not serious, are you?

who is the "many others"? i don't know any mac user who wants windows just to go full screen when you click on the maximize button (i think it's "officially" called something else). how would you drag links in a browser from one window to another (i do that all the time), how would you in general drag and drop stuff from one app to another? (not too much of a conern under windows, i agree, drag & drop is by far better on mac os)

also, it's just a waste of space. since most web designers also have to think of people with smaller monitors, most pages just have a wide white margin on my ti's screen. why be presented with empty space when i can actually see something useful like another window in the same space?

please, using everything in full screen is windows. i guess they do that because from a programmatic point of view, it's way easier than to calculate the size needed to just display the contents of a window which is what the mac does -- i admit, this doesn't always work perfectly in present incarnations of os x, but there's always hope for 10.2...<hr /></blockquote>Hi,

Not to side with anyone, but I too would like the OS X maximize widget (yes it is called maximize officially by many OS' I believe) to take up the full screen. In fact thats one of the few things that really bothers me about OS X. As for drag and drop from window to window... thats why the OS remembers what size you left it at in it's un-maximized state. So you can easily max and unmax to meet your desired proportions. Plus resizing windows is fast and painless in Windows for the most part, sadly I can't say the same for OS X atm. Hopefully this is fixed in jaguar.

Chris

Spirit_VW · Jun 17, 2002, 07:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:


Do the widgets act as they should? Yes. Not only that but at least I can minimize and maximize properly. Does close function? Well, yes. Would I prefer the maximize widget to crop the screen rather than fill the screen? No. I and many others want the whole screen filled when pressing maximize otherwise it wouldn't be called 'maximize'. How do I get a full screen window with a Mac app?
<hr /></blockquote>The green button IS NOT FREAKING MAXIMIZE!!! It is called "zoom," NOT "maximize." It is identified as such MANY times in the Aqua Human Interface Guidelines, and it is NOT supposed to make the window full screen.

How about next time, before you go shooting your trolling little mouth off, you actually learn some facts about what you're talking about, mmkay?

Mac007 · Jun 17, 2002, 09:43 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by John Tewksbury:
I'm not getting anything at that link. Either my OSX browser is a piece of crap or the Apple lawyers already got to them!<hr /></blockquote>Your browsers fine but the link goes no where and the original poster is gone too. Me thinks this is a hoax.

P.S. I could be wrong however.

Mac007 · Jun 17, 2002, 09:47 PM

Folks if the previous link does not work this one does.

<a href="http://www.aqua-soft.org/" target="_blank">aqua-soft for Windows</a>

::maroma:: · Jun 18, 2002, 12:18 AM

I'm not positive, but isn't this some sort of copyright infringement? They have an extremely lame "disclaimer" on their page, that pretty much says to me that they know they are violating something, and they are trying to say everything to dodge the fact. Aren't Apple's system icons copyrighted by Apple? Does the fact that they aren't profiting off of it make it OK?

Just checkin.

<img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

sniffer · Jun 18, 2002, 05:59 AM

Ehm.. I don't know if it's just me but, can Windows read the Mac OS X install cd? (I just noticed it on the first picture.)

KellyHogan · Jun 18, 2002, 06:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by seb2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by spectre:
"Do the widgets act as they should? Yes. Not only that but at least I can minimize and maximize properly. Does close function? Well, yes. Would I prefer the maximize widget to crop the screen rather than fill the screen? No. I and many others want the whole screen filled when pressing maximize otherwise it wouldn't be called 'maximize'. How do I get a full screen window with a Mac app?"

Try option clicking the button (maximize button or whatever its called).<hr /></blockquote>I have to hold down buttons and click and you call this simplicity?<hr /></blockquote>you're not serious, are you?

who is the "many others"? i don't know any mac user who wants windows just to go full screen when you click on the maximize button (i think it's "officially" called something else).

also, it's just a waste of space. s<hr /></blockquote>Well, the perfect example of how much better the maximize funtion on Windows is compared to the Mac is right in front of us. Because of the images on this page the text in each message is formatted in such a way that you have to scroll across to read it. I press the + widget here in IE for OSX and instead of a full screen I am getting a larger cropped window and not a full screen. I still have to scroll across. The resolution of my iMac doesn't help either.

If I do the same on my PeeCee with the same resolution, even though there is still a bit of scrolling (about an inch or so) I can see far more than I can here.

The same goes for video players and other apps which you want to run full screen without any other apps getting in the way. I also wich there was an option to use a background window for each or every app on OSX. The amount of times I have accidentally clicked on the desktop when running Photoshop has been annoying enough. Again, it should be an OPTION.

Flexibility is the key and users should be able to do what they want. The OSX theme for Windows above might not be perfect, it doesn't have to be, but it illustrates the flexibility Windows users have with their OS. I've played with dozens of themes on Windows including Classic Platinum, OSX, BeOS, NeXT and Sosumi. Microsoft supports theming and has no problem with it. I have spring loaded folders on my Windows box. How many OSX owners have that considering it was always a part of the Mac GUI? OSX users have had to wait 18 months just to get something like that (let alone decent graphics acceleration).

KellyHogan · Jun 18, 2002, 06:22 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sniffer:
Ehm.. I don't know if it's just me but, can Windows read the Mac OS X install cd? (I just noticed it on the first picture.)<hr /></blockquote>I think some of that picture has been faked. But PeeCees can read Mac drives using, tada, MacDrive. That's how I use my iPod with Windows (XPlay uses MacDrive) and can access the mp3 folder directly.

K++ · Jun 18, 2002, 10:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Well, the perfect example of how much better the maximize funtion on Windows is compared to the Mac is right in front of us. Because of the images on this page the text in each message is formatted in such a way that you have to scroll across to read it. I press the + widget here in IE for OSX and instead of a full screen I am getting a larger cropped window and not a full screen. I still have to scroll across. The resolution of my iMac doesn't help either.

If I do the same on my PeeCee with the same resolution, even though there is still a bit of scrolling (about an inch or so) I can see far more than I can here.

The same goes for video players and other apps which you want to run full screen without any other apps getting in the way. I also wich there was an option to use a background window for each or every app on OSX. The amount of times I have accidentally clicked on the desktop when running Photoshop has been annoying enough. Again, it should be an OPTION.

Flexibility is the key and users should be able to do what they want. The OSX theme for Windows above might not be perfect, it doesn't have to be, but it illustrates the flexibility Windows users have with their OS. I've played with dozens of themes on Windows including Classic Platinum, OSX, BeOS, NeXT and Sosumi. Microsoft supports theming and has no problem with it. I have spring loaded folders on my Windows box. How many OSX owners have that considering it was always a part of the Mac GUI? OSX users have had to wait 18 months just to get something like that (let alone decent graphics acceleration).<hr /></blockquote>Ummm no, that is an example of lazy ass programmers, had you been using OmniWeb it would have properly resized to fill your screen. The zoom button was never meant as a maximizer button, its purpose is to resize the window to fit its contents, in this case I am guessing the image is larger than your resolution and your using IE. IE resizes to the smallest size you used before or the largest size you used before, how do I know since I actually am a programmer and do UI specifically and pay attention to how good apps behave so that I can make mines better. It is the programmer's responsibility to determine how thier zoom button works, in Cocoa you get it for free as is evidenced by OmniWeb, Chimera, and all other Cocoa apps. They will resize to fill all the available content to your screen without taking up more than needed.

Another thing is the fact that I have maximize as a matter of fact I abhor it, the fact of the matter is I prefer to have as many apps as possible running and monitor what they are doing, I like to have my floating iTunes window to control iTunes and when an app decides it wants the whole screen but doesnt need it, I get ****ed.

The idea that people only want it either minimized or maximized is extremely flawed. For example IMs are the best example who in thier right mind wants a full screen IM? On windows thats what your get when you maximize.

Lastly the actual point of this whole thread: The rip off is awful like starfleet mentioned, it lacks alot of the things taht make the mac better in the first place. If you put shape crap in a a scuplture and spraw perfume on it, it still doesnt change the fact that is is crap.

P.S. That site deserves a visit from Apple Legal since no matter what they disclaim they are ripping off copyrighted work. Even worse this copyrighted work is sold and they are giving away a version of it for free, that is illegal its the same things as going into a theater taping a movie and bootlegging it on the street for those who dont wanna pay 10 bucks to watch it. If they like OS X so much pay for it, and stop ripping us off.

[ 06-18-2002, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: K++ ]

Gee4orce · Jun 18, 2002, 11:26 AM

Well said K++. Apple should stamp these guys out.

echoes · Jun 18, 2002, 12:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by starfleetX:

edit: OMG, I just noticed the window title bars don't use real transparency. How ugly! They go to such lengths and can't get something as simple as that right?[/QB]<hr /></blockquote><a href="http://onyxcj.homestead.com/files/osxp.jpg" target="_blank">click me</a>

(Someone posted this to another forum back in February or so)

Drizzt · Jun 18, 2002, 01:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by starfleetX:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Again, I'm not talking about that theme above. Just general behavior of a couple of OSes.<hr /></blockquote>Then why did you even bother to post? This thread is about the above theme and how it copies OSX.
<hr /></blockquote>This is more example of Mac fanaticism. The 'theme' does not copy OSX. It is an OSX theme. Get it? It's a bit dumb to say an OSX theme is copying OSX.<hr /></blockquote>Oh my... Apple having red + yellow + green + blue is copying Microsoft with it's Windows logo.. but making a theme to make Windows looks the more exactly possible like MacOS X is not copying..

I think I'll have to redo my math classes.. looks like there's something wrong with my logic..

Sap · Jun 18, 2002, 02:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Well said K++. Apple should stamp these guys out.<hr /></blockquote>Why should this guy's harmless hard work be forcedly shoved down the toilet? I see a lot of MacNN users complaining about the RIAA, MPAA, etc. and how lame it is that recently AudioGalaxy got shut down, for example. And remember how joyful everyone was when the Aqua Kaleidoscope themes were constantly getting smacked down by Apple legal? Me neither.

Now you're actually advocating that Apple should shut down this guy's site solely because of "intellectual property laws" and other similar fundamentals?

Save, for the moment, your 100% anal-retentive law abiding ways. Other than the fact that written in a book somewhere it might say "thou shalt not make your GUI resemble Aqua," is there any reason why this guy's patches shouldn't be installed on Windows XP? Do you honestly believe that Apple is going to lose money because of this? Do you honestly believe that people who install this theme do it for anything more than the coolness factor of "haha! look! I have Aqua on XP!"

Get over Apple's Aqua. The theme itself (which is copied here) is frankly not that special. No one switches to OS X because of 5k worth of titlebar graphics.

Spirit_VW · Jun 18, 2002, 02:38 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KellyHogan:
Well, the perfect example of how much better the maximize funtion on Windows is compared to the Mac is right in front of us. Because of the images on this page the text in each message is formatted in such a way that you have to scroll across to read it. I press the + widget here in IE for OSX and instead of a full screen I am getting a larger cropped window and not a full screen. I still have to scroll across. The resolution of my iMac doesn't help either.<hr /></blockquote>You do realize that IE5 for OS X is a sloppy program, right? If you'd been using OmniWeb, to take the best example, when you clicked the ZOOM!!! widget, it would have resized the window to be large enough to fit the content within - and if that meant making it full-width, it would have done it.

karbon · Jun 18, 2002, 07:21 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:

Save, for the moment, your 100% anal-retentive law abiding ways. Other than the fact that written in a book somewhere it might say "thou shalt not make your GUI resemble Aqua," is there any reason why this guy's patches shouldn't be installed on Windows XP? Do you honestly believe that Apple is going to lose money because of this? Do you honestly believe that people who install this theme do it for anything more than the coolness factor of "haha! look! I have Aqua on XP!"
<hr /></blockquote>No matter how you look at it, copying and selling someones intellectual property is illegal! There's not really much more to discuss here. To say that "it doesn't matter" or "Apple will not lose money from it" doesn't make it any more right to copy it.

Apple has the rights to go after this guy and make him stop his business of ripping Apple's innovation. It's actually quite comparable to the case where Adobe sued Macromedia from using tabbed toolbars...

Sap · Jun 18, 2002, 09:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by karbon:
No matter how you look at it, copying and selling someones intellectual property is illegal! There's not really much more to discuss here. To say that "it doesn't matter" or "Apple will not lose money from it" doesn't make it any more right to copy it.

Apple has the rights to go after this guy and make him stop his business of ripping Apple's innovation. It's actually quite comparable to the case where Adobe sued Macromedia from using tabbed toolbars...<hr /></blockquote>First of all, this guy isn't selling anything. In fact if you went to his website, you'd have learned that he's in fact losing a lot of many in bandwidth costs and has recently had to shut down his hotline server. Not sure where you got this business idea from.

Secondly, yes, I'm well aware that Apple has every right to go after him for making an Aqua theme. My point is that just because Apple has the right to do it doesn't mean that it should be done. I don't see how you're drawing a parallel between this and Macromedia's tabbed browsing... A better example would be Apple's killing of several Aqua Kaleidoscope themes. These themes are completely harmless - no one gets hurt. In fact a lot of people enjoy the themes, so it's beneficial. Apple Legal comes along however, as they always do, and puts a stop to all the fun.

Now this is where all the groaning comes in. "Argh... Why is Apple being so anal about this?" Slashdot and other huge sites post about stuff like this and Apple gets a huge amount of bad press. Even the most loyal Apple followers tend to turn a blind eye and just ignore it. I was really surprised, however, when some people here were actually encouraging Apple to unleash the Apple Legal attack hounds on yet another guy's harmless hobby.

Drizzt · Jun 18, 2002, 09:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by karbon:
No matter how you look at it, copying and selling someones intellectual property is illegal! There's not really much more to discuss here. To say that "it doesn't matter" or "Apple will not lose money from it" doesn't make it any more right to copy it.

Apple has the rights to go after this guy and make him stop his business of ripping Apple's innovation. It's actually quite comparable to the case where Adobe sued Macromedia from using tabbed toolbars...<hr /></blockquote>First of all, this guy isn't selling anything. In fact if you went to his website, you'd have learned that he's in fact losing a lot of many in bandwidth costs and has recently had to shut down his hotline server. Not sure where you got this business idea from.

Secondly, yes, I'm well aware that Apple has every right to go after him for making an Aqua theme. My point is that just because Apple has the right to do it doesn't mean that it should be done. I don't see how you're drawing a parallel between this and Macromedia's tabbed browsing... A better example would be Apple's killing of several Aqua Kaleidoscope themes. These themes are completely harmless - no one gets hurt. In fact a lot of people enjoy the themes, so it's beneficial. Apple Legal comes along however, as they always do, and puts a stop to all the fun.

Now this is where all the groaning comes in. "Argh... Why is Apple being so anal about this?" Slashdot and other huge sites post about stuff like this and Apple gets a huge amount of bad press. Even the most loyal Apple followers tend to turn a blind eye and just ignore it. I was really surprised, however, when some people here were actually encouraging Apple to unleash the Apple Legal attack hounds on yet another guy's harmless hobby.<hr /></blockquote>It's because Apple doesn't want it's image ternished by so-called themes.. or ripoffs..

That's why they are closing themes, that's why they get them off the internet..

It's obvious that there is a connection between the "product" and MacOS X.. that's the point. Apple doesn't want an "external" link like that.. and they have the right to get it closed.. (I agree, in this case, that they should "release the hoods" on this one.. it's a pure makeup over Windows XP, and although it's quite near MacOS X, it could foul potential customers..)

Drizzt · Jun 18, 2002, 09:48 PM

Hey Kelly? How come you didn't anwser my Macintosh-worshipper-sheep-minded-like post? I mean.. my answer to your post?

Hehehehe...

kmkkid · Jun 18, 2002, 10:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by echoes:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by starfleetX:

edit: OMG, I just noticed the window title bars don't use real transparency. How ugly! They go to such lengths and can't get something as simple as that right?<hr /></blockquote><a href="http://onyxcj.homestead.com/files/osxp.jpg" target="_blank">click me</a>

(Someone posted this to another forum back in February or so)[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Actually, transparent titlebars have yet to be done in XP, if it's even possible no one seems to know yet. That pic there is simply fake transparency except for the one titlbar which is a winshaded window with transparency on the whole window (but with it shaded all you see is the titlebar) Looks convincing though, if you arnt a windows user and know XP's effects and limitations by now

The real thing "should" be possible, but I dont know what api's would be involved...

Chris

kmkkid · Jun 18, 2002, 10:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Drizzt:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by karbon:
No matter how you look at it, copying and selling someones intellectual property is illegal! There's not really much more to discuss here. To say that "it doesn't matter" or "Apple will not lose money from it" doesn't make it any more right to copy it.

Apple has the rights to go after this guy and make him stop his business of ripping Apple's innovation. It's actually quite comparable to the case where Adobe sued Macromedia from using tabbed toolbars...<hr /></blockquote>First of all, this guy isn't selling anything. In fact if you went to his website, you'd have learned that he's in fact losing a lot of many in bandwidth costs and has recently had to shut down his hotline server. Not sure where you got this business idea from.

Secondly, yes, I'm well aware that Apple has every right to go after him for making an Aqua theme. My point is that just because Apple has the right to do it doesn't mean that it should be done. I don't see how you're drawing a parallel between this and Macromedia's tabbed browsing... A better example would be Apple's killing of several Aqua Kaleidoscope themes. These themes are completely harmless - no one gets hurt. In fact a lot of people enjoy the themes, so it's beneficial. Apple Legal comes along however, as they always do, and puts a stop to all the fun.

Now this is where all the groaning comes in. "Argh... Why is Apple being so anal about this?" Slashdot and other huge sites post about stuff like this and Apple gets a huge amount of bad press. Even the most loyal Apple followers tend to turn a blind eye and just ignore it. I was really surprised, however, when some people here were actually encouraging Apple to unleash the Apple Legal attack hounds on yet another guy's harmless hobby.<hr /></blockquote>It's because Apple doesn't want it's image ternished by so-called themes.. or ripoffs..

That's why they are closing themes, that's why they get them off the internet..

It's obvious that there is a connection between the "product" and MacOS X.. that's the point. Apple doesn't want an "external" link like that.. and they have the right to get it closed.. (I agree, in this case, that they should "release the hoods" on this one.. it's a pure makeup over Windows XP, and although it's quite near MacOS X, it could foul potential customers..)<hr /></blockquote>Hmmmm well if people actually choose an OS for it's GUI and not fucntionality then I guess a cloned GUI would hurt business.. which does happen, but I couldnt see it being alot of sales lost. "Normal" people choose an OS for ALOT more then it's GUI, although a pretty GUI is an added bonus

snerdini · Jun 18, 2002, 10:41 PM

I wonder if they've modified all the error dialog boxes to look like OS X too...

Remember, that's a big part of Windows!

[ 06-18-2002, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: snerdini ]

Drizzt · Jun 18, 2002, 10:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kmkkid:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Drizzt:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sap:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by karbon:
No matter how you look at it, copying and selling someones intellectual property is illegal! There's not really much more to discuss here. To say that "it doesn't matter" or "Apple will not lose money from it" doesn't make it any more right to copy it.

Apple has the rights to go after this guy and make him stop his business of ripping Apple's innovation. It's actually quite comparable to the case where Adobe sued Macromedia from using tabbed toolbars...<hr /></blockquote>First of all, this guy isn't selling anything. In fact if you went to his website, you'd have learned that he's in fact losing a lot of many in bandwidth costs and has recently had to shut down his hotline server. Not sure where you got this business idea from.

Secondly, yes, I'm well aware that Apple has every right to go after him for making an Aqua theme. My point is that just because Apple has the right to do it doesn't mean that it should be done. I don't see how you're drawing a parallel between this and Macromedia's tabbed browsing... A better example would be Apple's killing of several Aqua Kaleidoscope themes. These themes are completely harmless - no one gets hurt. In fact a lot of people enjoy the themes, so it's beneficial. Apple Legal comes along however, as they always do, and puts a stop to all the fun.

Now this is where all the groaning comes in. "Argh... Why is Apple being so anal about this?" Slashdot and other huge sites post about stuff like this and Apple gets a huge amount of bad press. Even the most loyal Apple followers tend to turn a blind eye and just ignore it. I was really surprised, however, when some people here were actually encouraging Apple to unleash the Apple Legal attack hounds on yet another guy's harmless hobby.<hr /></blockquote>It's because Apple doesn't want it's image ternished by so-called themes.. or ripoffs..

That's why they are closing themes, that's why they get them off the internet..

It's obvious that there is a connection between the "product" and MacOS X.. that's the point. Apple doesn't want an "external" link like that.. and they have the right to get it closed.. (I agree, in this case, that they should "release the hoods" on this one.. it's a pure makeup over Windows XP, and although it's quite near MacOS X, it could foul potential customers..)<hr /></blockquote>Hmmmm well if people actually choose an OS for it's GUI and not fucntionality then I guess a cloned GUI would hurt business.. which does happen, but I couldnt see it being alot of sales lost. "Normal" people choose an OS for ALOT more then it's GUI, although a pretty GUI is an added bonus

<hr /></blockquote>There is some customers that doesn't "care" that much..

I think of one of my aunts for exemple.. she bought 2 PCs at RadioShack.. 2 POS.. and she says PCs are all the same, with all the same problems..

That's odd.. I have FAR LESS troubles with my machines... but hey.. she's always right.. I must be wrong since I studied 3 years in computer science..

Sorry for the rant

Neways.. this shows how some people react to computers and OSes.. they DON'T CARE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

undotwa · Jun 19, 2002, 12:08 AM

I don't like my Mac because it looks cool or it is 'powerful' (actually I think that is a downside <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ), I like my Mac because it's OS looks cool and works very well.

Plain 'n simple. And after using Windows, no revision as of yet offers the same 'looks cool, works well' of Mac OS.

Windows XP is no where near as good as Mac OS X, and I don't care what the reviewers say. It just doesn't work for me. It feels like a cheap copy of Mac OS X 'Windowsfied'.

I can list many things wrong with XP, to start:

��Luna... very very cheap. It's like a luny Aqua gone all wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Microsoft needs to rethink their GUI. None of the colours really match.
� Start menu/taskbar, not very well organized. Takes up too much space, buttons are way too big.
��Control Panel, it is just awful. 'What do you want to do?' and those bluddy assistants. Very poorly organized, looks ugly, total redo.
��Windows Explorer - too many ways to 'explore' your HD. You've got My Computer with all those web views, Windows Explorer... can't they just think of something like the Mac OS Finder to replace both Windows Explorer and My Computer? Folders are not web pages
��My Pictures, My Documents etc. They've done it all wrong. Folders are not programs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
� Open and Save boxes, very complex...
��Integration with IE and MSN... very annoying.
and more...

I think the Dock was well done, it works well for me... and it takes much less space than the task bar. It doesn't need any extra functionality, and IMHO, the Docklets were good to go.

Mac OS X, while still needs improvements in a few areas, just offers me an OS which everything has been thought through. Lack of customizability reminds me of System 6, the system just worked - and well. And it provided enough features for it's time. I like to think of Mac OS X as modelled on System 6 - borderless windows, System Preferences (although done in a more flashy way), Apple Menu (not customizable), floating applications, no window shade... With the only real difference is an Aqua skin, the Dock, and how it's multi user (although Auto Login does a pretty good job at hiding it).

Just my positive 2� to distract everyone from KellyHogan.

[ 06-19-2002, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: undotwa ]

TNproud2b · Jun 19, 2002, 01:57 AM

You haven't used Windows....

Sap · Jun 19, 2002, 02:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
� Luna... very very cheap. It's like a luny Aqua gone all wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Microsoft needs to rethink their GUI. None of the colours really match.
� Start menu/taskbar, not very well organized. Takes up too much space, buttons are way too big.
� Control Panel, it is just awful. 'What do you want to do?' and those bluddy assistants. Very poorly organized, looks ugly, total redo.
� Windows Explorer - too many ways to 'explore' your HD. You've got My Computer with all those web views, Windows Explorer... can't they just think of something like the Mac OS Finder to replace both Windows Explorer and My Computer? Folders are not web pages
� My Pictures, My Documents etc. They've done it all wrong. Folders are not programs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
� Open and Save boxes, very complex...
� Integration with IE and MSN... very annoying.
and more...
<hr /></blockquote>I'm only a "casual" XP user, but damn... This is a lot of FUD.

TNproud2b · Jun 19, 2002, 02:27 AM

yeah, he's the resident Mac troll.

Makes OSX users look like simple-minded drones.

Drizzt · Jun 19, 2002, 09:06 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TNproud2b:
yeah, he's the resident Mac troll.

Makes OSX users look like simple-minded drones.<hr /></blockquote>And Kelly makes Windows users look like M$-Paid-sheep-minded Windows users..

Sometimes I get to think that he's paid by M$ to rant on this bord, and get the community appart...