[gralem]

I have not seen any word on this in any forums, but I cannot log into hotmail with safari. First, it told me that my browser did not support javascript (it does). Now it just gives me a .net login error over and over.

Anyone else?

---gralem

[cpac]

it's been noted that Safari chokes big time on Hotmail, and that it frequently has https log-in problems generally.

[cpac]

Here's a thought:

How 'bout an improvement of the History?

Ideally it would be a window like the bookmark window (and not just a "playlist" within bookmarks generally)

The "playlists" in this window would be the root sites, and the "songs" would be the specific pages within a site that was visited.

Such a set up might actually make History useful for those, like me, that currently avoid using it in any of its current forms.

[hamiltondj]

Apple's got a script available that supposed to do this, but when I run it, it gives me an error message.

Anyone have any luck?

[gunnar]

So far, everything works as promised. On TiBook 400 the speed is definitely 2-3 times faster than IE and still faster than Chimera etc. I'm not a fan of the brushed metal but the sparse interface is great and the rendering seems excellent so far. It hasn't choked on anything and seems to do the "little things" like keep cookies and return to previous pages without messing things up.

I also like all the little touches like the items under the Safari menu, the orange back buttons to go to the root of a site, and the nifty progress bar in the address area.

Since this is only a beta I am confident 1.0 will be better than anything out there and we'll see the same kind of jumps as with the iApps in each successive milestone.

Way to go Apple. Mac users are that bit happier and if it's true that the source is going public, KHTML (linux) users will be happy too.

This is the only way to keep abreast with Microsoft. There has to be the support of the number one unix company behind the browser, whatever it is and now it's been decided.

[mishap]

errr... when i right click on an image and say "Save Link to disk"...it just automatically saves it to the desktop as the linked filename. I would like to be able to have the option to rename the file and save it where i want most web browers ALWAYS have this option.

other than that... this browser is *tight*

i like it a lot!

[Technicolor]

I'm digging it. Works pretty well. Still buggy but I'll give them that since it's a beta. I'm really looking forward to this improving over time. Nice and lean.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by macrophyllum:
Looks like the "stole" some features from Chimera.

Stole some features? What, like the address bar? Or "bookmarks"... or wait, maybe that super new and innovative auto completion of URLs that no other browser has?

Stop pointing fingers, Safari isn't even remotely from the same codebase as Chimera (Safari is based on Konquerer, Chimera based on Mozilla).

Heh.

[sushiism]

Originally posted by cpac:
The timeout limit is a problem (at least today, browsing MacNN etc.).

timeout is not the browsers fault its macnn ive been on it and had problems from pc ie

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by gunnar:
I also like all the little touches like the items under the Safari menu, the orange back buttons to go to the root of a site, and the nifty progress bar in the address area.

That progress bar is total sh#t - every time I'm loading a page I keep looking around to see the progress. Not only that, the progress bar violates their own GUI guidelines... where the heck is the STANDARD OSX progress bar widget!!!

That, and the brushed metal, really bug me. The tabbed browsing doesn't bother me, I've never got the knack of doing that, and the keychain security doesn't bother me as I don't like to store passwords on my PowerBook (machine gets stolen then someone has complete access to everything).

[pliny]

Originally posted by kman42:
To import from Chimera:

1) export from Chimera and import into IE
2) Delete safari App
3) Delete safari prefs (the plist in Library->Prefs)
4) Delete Library->Safari folder
5) Install safari
6) Drag things out of the Imported from IE bookmarks folder

OR

1) drag items one at a time from Chimera to Safari

The first method will let you get everything in at once, but requires 5 minutes of annoying rigmarole. The second method is also annoying, but in a different way.

kman

Why delete and install again? Just delete the com.apple.Safari.plist (you mention it as #2), that clears the bookmark stuff. You can import Omniweb bookmarks by importing them to Chimera, then exporting them to Explorer. Safari seems pretty fast here. It renders well too. Problems with https.

One great thing? about Safari that no other browser does AFAIK, is that when you resize the browser window, the displayed page is not crunched, but simply resized to those dimensions; the entire page fits within the Safari window no matter the size. This is very cool.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by macrophyllum:
Looks like the "stole" some features from Chimera.

Stole some features? What, like the address bar? Or "bookmarks"... or wait, maybe that super new and innovative auto completion of URLs that no other browser has?

Stop pointing fingers, Safari isn't even remotely from the same codebase as Chimera (Safari is based on Konquerer, Chimera based on Mozilla).

Heh.

note: A combination of MacNN's servers lagging and Safari's not showing the progress bar when I hit submit on several occasions trying to post that reply caused the reply to be sent in twice... I apologize.

[cpac]

Originally posted by pliny:
One great thing? about Safari that no other browser does AFAIK, is that when you resize the browser window, the displayed page is not crunched, but simply resized to those dimensions; the entire page fits within the Safari window no matter the size. This is very cool.

Um, assuming you only mean horizontally, OW has done this all along.

[kupan787]

I am really going to miss tabbed browsing for now, but I am switching because Chimera can't do spell checking. This was one thing I really liked about OmniWeb, and something I find indispensable.

I haven't noticed too many issues, and speed seems the same to me (I noticed a difference between IE/Omniweb and Chimera, but no difference between Chimera and Safari). The "snap back" is kind of a cool feature (I am sure I will use it more later), and direct searching of google is nice as well.

I hated that it was brushed metal, so I changed that in IB (you need to change two nib files, Browser and Downloads are what they were called if I remember correctly). But then you notice you need to move down all the elements in the window, as it looked too close to the titlebar after just switching it form brushed metal. I just expanded the window by 20 pixels, moved down everything a tad, and then shrank the window so that the bottom rested at the correct place again (right off the status line). IMHO it looks much better now.

Cant wait for the final!

[mamamia]

sorry, not faster than chimera here on a pismo 400. loads decent, but responsiveness of scroll bar an is about 30% slower. makes big difference in allowing me to jump around the page, especially on these forums. maybe it is g4 optimized.

on another note, when was the last time apple intoduced a new piece of software that wasn't a beta product? safari is a public beta, isync was a public beta, x11 is a public beta, ical was a public beta, mac os x was a public beta (hee hee). but seriously, there is something to be said for developing the damn thing in house, then unleashing it to the world when it's ready. i bet you that safari won't go 1.0 for another two months. just marketing to get it out now.

[Don Pickett]

On a 500 MHz G3 it's faster than Omni, Chimera, Mozilla or IE. So far it's rendered every page I've been to very well, in come cases better than Chimera. Considering it's a beta, I'm very impressed.

[raviruddarraju]

Originally posted by Don Pickett:
On a 500 MHz G3 it's faster than Omni, Chimera, Mozilla or IE. So far it's rendered every page I've been to very well, in come cases better than Chimera. Considering it's a beta, I'm very impressed.

Same here. 500Mhz G3 iBook. Faster than all else. Quite close to IE on WinTel...IMHO

[Ozmodiar]

It feels the same as Chimera on my TiBook 400. A couple of things I would like to see:

Spell Checking
More Appearance preferences (text rendering, no underlining links, little things like that)
KeyChain access

I would accept and use tabbed browsing, but I'm not pining for it.

I hope Safari didn't ruin anyone's day over at Chimera. It's such a great browser, I hope they keep at it.

[Gatorzx2]

Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
That progress bar is total sh#t - every time I'm loading a page I keep looking around to see the progress. Not only that, the progress bar violates their own GUI guidelines... where the heck is the STANDARD OSX progress bar widget!!!

On the menu bar click "view" then check "status bar". And there it is right at the bottom.

[Don Pickett]

Originally posted by Ozmodiar:
It feels the same as Chimera on my TiBook 400. A couple of things I would like to see:

Spell Checking

Control-click in a text box to turn on spell checking.

More Appearance preferences (text rendering, no underlining links, little things like that)
KeyChain access

I would accept and use tabbed browsing, but I'm not pining for it.

Agreed.

[Footy]

That is very cool! I'm liking it a lot!

Originally posted by pliny:

One great thing? about Safari that no other browser does AFAIK, is that when you resize the browser window, the displayed page is not crunched, but simply resized to those dimensions; the entire page fits within the Safari window no matter the size. This is very cool.

[Ozmodiar]

Originally posted by Don Pickett:
Control-click in a text box to turn on spell checking.

Cool. Thanks!

[Xtraz]

Did anyone else notice that the Chimera icon is embeded within the Safari icon? I wonder why that is... I mean they hired that guy from the Chimera team but there must be more to this story.

Also, about blocking ads there's a "Block Pop-Up Windows" option under the Safari menu. But I wonder if it would interfere with sites that actually have useful pop-up windows.

[CharlesS]

Well no wonder they made Omni change their icon - the "Bookmarks" toolbar icon in Safari's preferences looks almost exactly the same as the OmniWeb 4.1 beta icon.

[mftalon]

Just noticed this thread and thought I would add something I noticed immediately about Safari;

It plays Flash DOG SLOW!!!!

It does well on other pages but flash absolutely destroys this browser, Chimera, OW, and even IE smoke it in flash.

So this begs the question...

How'd Mr Jobs play that flash music site so well?

[Xtraz]

Interesting read from MacRumors.com board (post by eallison):

Also, I got to talk to one of the Safari managers for a while. I asked him about tabbed browsing and he said that they've talked about it a lot, and thought about it, and that we can submit feedback about it if we'd like. He said they want to make page rendering so blisteringly fast that there's no need for tabs. And that they intend the "snapback" function to take on the functionality of following a link into a new tab for a while, and then going back to the original page. They're thinking that those two together (speed, snapback) will provide an alternative way of interacting with web pages that they thinks better. But like I said, they're open to feedback. I personally don't use tabs, I prefer to cycle through windows with cmd-~

Two more things to note - the metal appearance is because they didn't like the way the normal windows interacted with the web page and looked like part of the content. The metal provides more a definite distinction. There was a developer (not apple, an attendee) standing next to me having fits about it. Also, all the widgets are Cocoa - which seals the deal against Chimera for me, because I can actually type this reply and not go insane waiting for letters to appear on the screen.

Oh, and one more thing... :-) I overheard another Apple developer saying that they hadn't really focused on optimizing the rendering for speed yet! Sweet-O.

Seems like we need to make some noise to make sure they know that tabbed browsing is the way to go. Its simply more elegant than having multiple windows open.

Now, where is the Apple Comments page again?

[Ozmodiar]

Originally posted by Xtraz:
Did anyone else notice that the Chimera icon is embeded within the Safari icon?

I think that's just a coincidence, being that a compass rose is a compass rose is a compass rose.

[Xtraz]

I see your point about the compass rose... but its exactly the same shape and colour scheme (with the globe hidden and all)

Then again maybe I'm over thinking this.

[trusted_content]

Posting from Safari right now.

I must admit I was a bit hasty in instantly trashing IE and Chimera because Safari is SO DAMN FAST that it beats both browsers hands down, and this is on a Beige G3-266 mind you, so I don't think there's much to be said for G4 optimization....

Everything seems to load well. I really wish the damn thing had tabs though. And brushed metal.... lemme just say it doesn't look good with thousands of colors, and thats all my damn video card can support, so fsck you apple!!!!

Overall i'm quite impressed though. I've been playing with KDE ever since it was first available via Fink and I've always loved the Konqueror browser, especially for its speed; I think Apple made a good choice in choosing (and tweaking) KHTML as its code base.

[Xtraz]

Anyone else think that the name Safari is a nice change from all the i-Somethings? And it ties in somewhat with Jaguar. I mean you want somewhere nice for your Jaguar to roam in right?

Hmm actually the browser roams in the OS so maybe the other way round makes more sense. Oh well.

[pobodysnerfect]

Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
That progress bar is total sh#t - every time I'm loading a page I keep looking around to see the progress. Not only that, the progress bar violates their own GUI guidelines... where the heck is the STANDARD OSX progress bar widget!!!

I totally agree, and it may seem like a small thing, but it is keeping me from using it. And the progress bar at the bottom is NOT the same thing. That and brushed metal??? Omniweb is much more elegant IMHO...

[gyc]

Originally posted by mamamia:
sorry, not faster than chimera here on a pismo 400. loads decent, but responsiveness of scroll bar an is about 30% slower. makes big difference in allowing me to jump around the page, especially on these forums. maybe it is g4 optimized.

Hmmm.... Scrolling is much faster on my 400MHz Pismo. You can also really tell it's a lot faster by the speed it renders a large page (e.g. a slashdot comments page). I regularly read a large sports forum page that is several hunderd kb's. Chimera would get to the page, spin the beachball for 5-6 secs, then load it. Safari gets to the page, immediately displays whatever it has retrieved, and allows me to read, scroll the page, etc. while it finishes loading in about the same time... much more pleasant to work with. Furthermore, if I follow a link on the page and go back in the browser, Chimera will beachball again for 5-6 secs while Safari goes back pretty much instantaneously.

[OAW]

For the longest time I was (and still am) an avid OmniWeb fan. The features and attention to detail in the GUI are just excellent. However, when Chimera 0.6 came out I simply had to ditch it because of Chimera's sheer speed and excellent website compatibility. I even came to like tabbed browsing, though I must admit if I don't have it I won't lose any sleep over it. So I've been a full-time Chimera user for the last few months. But even though I'd "defected" from the OW camp, my loyalties still lied with OW and I was anxiously awaiting the 5.0 release.

Well now that Safari has been released I can definitely say this ....

Safari is now the browser to beat! .... at least for me. YMMV. OW 5.0 or Chimera 1.0 will simply have to be OUTSTANDING to get me to stop using Safari. In the meantime, they have both been removed from my dock for the very first time!

This browser has all the basics on lock!

1. Fantastic Speed! - I find it a bit faster than the Chimera 0.6 12-20-02 build. It simply blows OW and IE out of the water. I can honestly say that web browsing speed on the Mac is no longer an issue with Safari or Chimera.

2. Simple, yet powerful GUI - Some may not like the brushed metal, and I didn't think I would like one either ... especially after looking at the "metallized" versions of Chimera. But I must admit that the Safari GUI is pretty slick. The "Bookmarks Bar" is just awesome! I also like how the Status Bar can be turned off so the you can see even more of the page as in OW.

3. Excellent Bookmark organization - the "iTunes style" bookmark window is off the chain! I love how the "button" in the bookmark bar easily toggles from the webpage to the full size bookmark window and back again. Very nice!

4. Top-notch website compatibility - even better than Chimera for me. I haven't had to fire up IE even once! Not even for those sites that Chimera can't handle. Let's not even talk about OW 4.1 in this arena.

5. Very cool "Snap Back" feature - definitely a useful innovation.

IMHO, this browser simply kicks much gluteus maximus! The following is what I think the FINAL VERSION needs to be the most awesome browser on the OS X platform:

Top Priorities

1. Some form of "tabbed browsing"(Chimera style) - even though I can easily live without it, there are enough people who are clamoring for it that I think it should be a top priority just to shut them up. I must admit that it is a cool feature and I'd rather it be there than not ... but not if the speed needs to be sacrificed! And it probably shouldn't have standard Aqua tabs otherwise Guy Incognito will have a heart attack!

2. Keychain Integration (Chimera style)

3. Autofill (IE style)


Medium Priorities

1. Show "Bookmarks Bar" sites in Dock icon (Chimera style)

2. Color-coded and formatted Source Editor (OW style)

3. Leave URL highlighted when opening a new window (OW style) - I hate having to hit CMD + L after opening a new window to type in a URL. I suspect they completely clear the URL field so the user can clearly see that the page has finished loading since this field is used as a progress indicator. Then again, they may not have even thought about it considering how Chimera doesn't highlight the URL either.

4. Show Link Destination in URL field (OW style) - this would give the user some information about where a link will go when the status bar is turned off.

5. Minimum Font Size Preference (OW and Chimera style) - I find this invaluable in OW and Chimera since it obviates the need to use the Text Smaller/Text Bigger functionality. However, even though Safari doesn't have this feature, it doesn't seem to need it as much Chimera and OW. I've rarely had to adjust the font size.


Low Priorities

1. Rounded URL bar (OW style) - I'd prefer this, even though I suspect they left it square because they have standardized on the rounded control just for "search" fields like in Mail, iTunes, etc.

2. "Print" Toolbar button(OW and Chimera style) - just a personal preference.

2. Bookmark Checking (OW style)

3. Shortcuts (OW style) - even though the only one I use is "?" for Google Search and Safari has it on the toolbar, it's still a cool feature.

4. Browser Spoofing (OW style)

5. "Open Link Behind This Window" contextual menu (OW style)

As you can see, I think that all Safari needs to secure itself as the best browser on OS X is to jack the competition for a few of their features here and there ... especially OW. I'll be sending this post to Apple ... hopefully, we will see most of these things implemented by the time the final version is released!

OAW

[OAW]

Originally posted by Xtraz:
Anyone else think that the name Safari is a nice change from all the i-Somethings? And it ties in somewhat with Jaguar. I mean you want somewhere nice for your Jaguar to roam in right?

Hmm actually the browser roams in the OS so maybe the other way round makes more sense. Oh well.

I certainly think the name "Safari" is a good change. However, I think the name is a bit of a play off Internet Explorer. "Safari" and "Explorer/Exploring" are somewhat related from a conceptual standpoint. And you must admit, "Safari" just sounds way cooler!

BTW, I really wish iCal was simply called Calendar ... but oh well.

OAW

[JB72]

But even though I'd "defected" from the OW camp, my loyalties still lied with OW and I was anxiously awaiting the 5.0 release.

I still like OW too. But it just wasn't working for well for me. And now I really like using Safari. It really "feels" right to me. Very quick and agile. It felt like Xmas II using my Mac today. I can't wait till it gets more features implemented. I'm already shopping for a pith helmet...

[I'm delirious exhausted.]

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by mftalon:
Just noticed this thread and thought I would add something I noticed immediately about Safari;

It plays Flash DOG SLOW!!!!

Please do not blame Safari without knowing anything about Flash plug-ins itself. There are thousands of reports saying that Flash plug-ins was very poorly written. Most of the code wasn't ported to MacOS X correctly (lot of PC code left). It does not take advantage of AltiVec or Dual processor or even Quartz (Extreme).

----

I'm VERY IMPRESSIVE with Safari. So far, it is the fastest browser ever for me (even on Windows too). I totally love the attention to details (dragable links in nice gray rectangle, nice dotted line when clicked, etc etc)

To add to the list of future features to be added to Safari, I would love to see those for Safari:

Window display the webpage in the dock after it is done loading (OmniWeb)

Some kind of dock icon info (how many files downloading, updated bookmarks?, etc)

I'm already using it as my main browser and will continue to do so despise several bugs I found (already reported and wow! I like the way it works. So beautiful and simple that it will encourage me to report more bugs!). Like others, for the first time I've removed OmniWeb and Chimera from my dock

Kudos to Apple for being so innovative. OmniWeb is a decent browser but it feel more of "following" Apple's style rather than innovate on their own. But of course I'll still check OmniWeb 5.0 if it is still coming

[Hi I'm Ben]

All these pop complaining about pop up bocking, have you even looked at the menu options yet? To save you the time, hit apple-K.

Either way.
Typing on this is 10x better then typing on chimera. I feel the overall rendering is a little under chimera but the website compatibility and bookmarks make me a happy camper.. i can wait .12310 seconds more for a page to load, that way when i come to a page that Chimera wouldn't load before that .1231923 seconds will be made up for the fact that i didn't have to just go open IE and view pages from there. Or the fact that I had to keep my bookmarks in sync.

in closing, Chimera will now become my 'backup browser". For what? i'm not sure.. but I think i can finally trash IE. I'm glad this browser isn't Mozilla I run into a lot of webpages.
www.isketch.net
www.games.com
won't run on Mozilla browsers. And i hate using IE once you get used to using Chimera for so long.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Please do not blame Safari without knowing anything about Flash plug-ins itself. There are thousands of reports saying that Flash plug-ins was very poorly written. Most of the code wasn't ported to MacOS X correctly (lot of PC code left). It does not take advantage of AltiVec or Dual processor or even Quartz (Extreme).

Um. Flash is MUCH slower for me in Safari than Chimera. Please tell me how this is the fault of the plug-in and not Safari's.

[Hi I'm Ben]

btw, cool thing... open up chimera... you can drag a link from it's bookmark bar to Safari's bookmark bar to add it.
i thought that was slick. I missed the keynote if he actually went over that..
hell... you can drag ANYTHING you want onto the menu bar and it will appear.

you can drag a .jpg from your computer on there if you felt the need.

I'd like to see sherlock built into that little menu bar on the side (instead of just google) however i do love that bar..

i should shut up now, but I really like this browser.. and if you read most of my posts you should know I'm not one to like something just because apple made it.

[Miniryu]

Give me a break guys! I can't belive so many people are complaining! Less than two weeks ago everyone was b�tching that browsing was too slow on the Mac. So Apple skimped on a few features to give us speed and you complain! Safari is great, especially for beta.

The name Safari rules! It also ties in with the Navigator theme of Netscape (which used the metaphore of the ocean for the internet). I would have refused to use it if it was called iBrowser.


One feature that I loved about OW was the superior text field features (especially for people like us who spend so much time in forums and email). When tab was hit, it would actually add a tab! I liked how the spell checker was automatic, although I have hopes for that on the final release of Safari.

I did notice that Apple once again violated their own UI standards, but I am willing to forgive since this is a beta, and it is so frickin cool!

One question: does anyone use iCab? I love it in OS 9, I'm curious how the OS X version is doing.

[as2]

Originally posted by lland:
Just trying it and got this error message...

Sorry, the ***** Internet site cannot currently be viewed using
Netscape 6 or other browsers with the same rendering engine.

In the meantime, please use a different web browser or call
*********** to order items from the ***** catalogue.

Does this mean that it is linked to Netscape 6?

www.argos.co.uk me thinks!!

[as2]

Originally posted by Miniryu:
One question: does anyone use iCab? I love it in OS 9, I'm curious how the OS X version is doing.

I tried it, along with every other browser for my iMac (including lynx), but found that it was slow, and the GUI left something to be desired.

I had been using a combination of IE and Chimera for different things, but been using Safari for about 12 hours now, and very impressed so far.

Some nice touches with the bookmarks, and dragging links in the browser windows.

Not to mention very fast!

[Gee4orce]

Official Gee4orce reaction: "It's fast !"

OK - there are a few niggles that others have already mentioned, but no more than any other beta browser (and aren't all browsers perpetually beta ?)

But on my 500MHz G3 iBook it's *way* fast - faster than Opera on Windows (over the same connection). It also feels 'light' in the same way Opera on Windows does, and in exactly the way every other Mac browser doesn't. Scrolling is lightyears ahead of any other Mac browser.

I'm glad they used KHTML - after all, what's the point of another Gecko browser ? At least this gives us an altogether different engine.

Way to go Apple ! Looking forward to version 1.0

[meem]

is it just me or does anyone else find it annoying that clicking on the adress bar doesn't select all the text so I can start typing a new adress. You have to click and drag select. It definitly needs a printing button (I know you can command P but I've alway have been and always will be a button clicker).

it doesnt seem faster than IE with pages I've never visited but does reload pages much quicker.

Flash is slow. even on a little animation I made a while ago it seems to react slower to the mouse position based action script than IE.

It does get a point for not wrecking things in general with when I installed or uninstalled it
ah well it's only beta I'll try again at 1.0

[kovacs]

Yeah it's pretty cool but I can't log in to any https website, I can't log in to hotmail or worse the .mac site...

I really miss tabbed browsing, auto completion ( IE ) and keychain integration ( it's ask me f I want to use my keychain password but never fills in the username or password ). Not bad for a beta, but I think I will use Chimera untill this app reaches version 1.0...

[monospace]

Interesting... Select a HTML document, Control-Click and go to "Open WIth..." In the list you will find "Safari (0.8)"

Of course, the About Safari box claims it's 1.0 beta (v48).

Suuuuure.....

[superblue]

Some nice things I've just noticed:

- Custom bookmark icons (these weren't in IE were they?)

- Status bar tells you if a link you've moused over will open in a new window - nice!

- Japanese page titles display correctly (didn't in IE)

- Mousing over the SnapBack button tells you the page you'll snap back to.

Well I'm very happy indeed. Place a Safari window over an IE window and notice the screen space you save with Safari's interface. No more annoying 'classic' IE cursors and bye-bye pop-ups!

I'd like to see the 'open link behind this window' but also, 'open link in Dock'. Sure it's not going to be the perfect browser for everyone, but that's a good thing. Love the name too. If only they'd called SnapBack "Boomerang"

[JB72]

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
I'd like to see sherlock built into that little menu bar on the side (instead of just google) however i do love that bar..

Looks like they borrowed pretty directly from Searchling (one of my fave freeware apps btw) with the Google bar.

[MickS]

Initial impressions:

Pro

- Fast - PB G4 667 (VGA) - 512MB RAM
- Bookmarks. It's about time someone looked at bookmark management. This is the first real change since Mosaic.
- AddressBook integration. No need to create bookmarks for addressbook entries. Just check the AddressBook option in the Prefs.
- Clean interface. <ducks>I like the brushed metal</ducks>
- Works with .Mac - no more IE

Cons

- No support for self-signed HTTPS certificates. There is no way to tell it to trust certifcates from other places.
- No tabs (I've got used to them)
- Won't work with my online banking (back to Chimera for that)
- Won't use my existing keychain web site passwords. I have to enter them all over again

My initial reaction is that I'll use it as my primary browser. Most of the sites I visit work well in it and it is fast. I still need to keep another browser on here for specific sites though

[Art Vandelay]

Originally posted by meem:
is it just me or does anyone else find it annoying that clicking on the adress bar doesn't select all the text so I can start typing a new adress. You have to click and drag select.

That's improper behavior for a text field. The way it behaves now is the proper behavior. It's just not the IE way.

However, you can click the favicon in the location field and it will select all of the text in the location field. Or just use Command-L and save some mouse action. You're going to have to use the keyboard anyways.