[sjohnson4343]

Hello,

I'm new to OSX and Mac hardware in general. So new that I didn't realize that they had their own keyboard layout. This is a big point of frustration for me so far as I'm accustomed to the PC layout.

Yes I know I can go buy a PC keyboard for my mac, but right now, all I have is this white one. I like how it feels, very high quality, so I'd like to use it, but I'm wondering if there are any pc-esqe fixes for it.

Namely, the "enter" key on the numeric keypad. What is up with Mac's and the Enter and Return keys. I don't get that. What is the differentiation, other than when I'm typing numbers in a word doc (or similar) and I press the number pad enter key and nothing happens. That seems counter intuative. Shouldn't it actually be a carriage return and a line-feed, to go back to what the Return key does? Can anyone explain the Mac concept here? I'm sure there's some logic to it, but I'm far beyond it right now.

Next, I have a power mac with 2 CDRom drives. Ok, so there really is no eject button on them. I have a neat eject button on my keyboard, but since i have 2 drives, it either doesn't eject one, or it will only eject the top. Is there a shortcut that I don't know of, like eject key+2 to eject the bottom drive by hand? Yes, I know the titlebar has an eject icon, but it seems odd to me that I have to use the titlebar to eject a disk. It would be far easier if I had a manual eject key (albeit a soft one on the keyboard) to control the drives. I'm sure someone can enlighten me on this one.

Remember my issue with return and enter? Can anyone shed light on the "clear" key? What the hell is that one?

Ok, last but not least, say I'm in safari, like I am now typing this message, i want to goto entourage, no problem, I can alt-tab just like in windows. Now, I down arrow a few times to go through some new email, and want to reply to one. The apple-key+r is reply, but say I didn't know that, and I want to bring up the tools menu, or the message menu, to find reply, or reply-all, or maybe I want to go into message rules, which has no key assignment. Without using the mouse, I can't use the "alt" key like I can in windows to pull up the first menu, nor can I once I click a menu use a letter key to reference the menu I want. Where is this concept in OSX? The mouse so far has been extreemly involved in everything. I have never used a mouse so much. I like to keep my hands on the keyboard and only use the mouse when I need to. I find that's much more efficient. How do I "alt" the menus to show up? I've searched the preferences and still can't find that option, but I think I'm missing it somewhere. There has to be a keyboard shortcut, right?

Thanks! i love the hardware, but I'm just learning the software so please go easy on me..

[Chuckit]

In most text editors, enter does work like return. In some programs with form-style interfaces that include textboxes that can have multiple paragraphs, return will insert paragraphs while enter will "submit" the form. All in all, exactly what it does is defined by the program.

To eject the second optical drive, use option-eject.

You can navigate the menus with the keyboard by pressing control-F2, and typing in a menu (whether you bring it up this way or with the mouse) will select the item that starts with the letters you type. This isn't really the most efficient way to do things, though. If you look in a menu, to the right of the item name, it lists the keyboard shortcut. Using those is much faster than drilling through menus. You can assign your own keyboard shortcuts using the keyboard preferences in System Preferences. (For instance, Bring All to Front in the Window menu is command-option-A in all my programs.)

[nonhuman]

Also, 'Mac's' isn't plural, it's possessive. You mean to be saying 'Macs'.

[analogika]

Generally, a command can be altered by holding the "alt" (or "option" in Mac-speak) key. So "Hide application" becomes "Hide other applications", "Get Info" becomes "Show Inspector", or "Quit" becomes "Force Quit" when click-holding/right-clicking on a Dock icon. This is live and you can see the change right there in the menu as you press and release the option key.

Look into Apple menu --> System Preferences --> Keyboard & Mouse --> Keyboard shortcuts for a complete listing of global key shortcuts, or adding your own, either global or per-application. (Note that when you enter the menu command to be executed, the ellipsis ("...") is usually option-. not three periods.

[sjohnson4343]

Control-F2!! Ahh, that is wonderful. I know it's quicker to do the "shortcut" key, but I can't remember all of the shortcuts for all of the things I need to do in all of the applications I use. The Mac people who can do that must be a diffrent breed than I.

Thanks for the tip on ejecting also. Much nicer to use. I didn't realize that the enter and return key's were pretty much the same thing. It is a bit frustrating to use the keys and not have the numpad enter key work sometimes and not others. I wish there were a way to fix that. I read somewhere that you can map keys to things in OSX. Is that true? Could I re-map my enter key to be a return key 100% of the time? Might even go so far as remapping the cntrl-f2 to something easier, like the unused help key or clear key. Is that possible?

And regarding the nice note about my grammar

Their is know knowledge that isnt worthy of sharing, but they're is knowledge some don't care to no. Mac's Macs MAC's, you knew what I meant. Why are some MAC people so anal? Forums aren't really formal. And yes I know MAC stands for MAC Address as so many MAC people so adamatly propose. I did it just to annoy you. Thanks for your corrections.. Feel free to excercize your perfect typogrophy and grammatical skillz on this passage. Far be it for me to take away your life's ambitions.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

Control-F2!! Ahh, that is wonderful. I know it's quicker to do the "shortcut" key, but I can't remember all of the shortcuts for all of the things I need to do in all of the applications I use. The Mac people who can do that must be a diffrent breed than I.

I think it's like learning to type: At first it seems like hunting and pecking is just "your thing," but once the motor memory kicks in, you can't imagine doing it the slow way again.

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

Thanks for the tip on ejecting also. Much nicer to use. I didn't realize that the enter and return key's were pretty much the same thing. It is a bit frustrating to use the keys and not have the numpad enter key work sometimes and not others.

I just tried enter in Word 2004 and it worked just like return, so it seems like something's a bit funny. What version are you using? Does your enter key ever work, or could it just be DOA?

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

I read somewhere that you can map keys to things in OSX. Is that true? Could I re-map my enter key to be a return key 100% of the time? Might even go so far as remapping the cntrl-f2 to something easier, like the unused help key or clear key. Is that possible?

Reassigning keyboard shortcuts (like ctrl-F2) is pretty easy. Go to the Keyboard & Mouse pane in System Preferences, then click on Keyboard Shortcuts. It'll give you a list of all the systemwide keyboard shortcuts and let you change them.

Remapping keys (like making enter register as return) is possible, but it's kind of a pain. I tried to do it a while back to get rid of the annoying enter key on my PowerBook (it's in place of the right-hand option key), but getting the change to stick and not mess anything else up was just more trouble than it was worth to me.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

Their is know knowledge that isnt worthy of sharing, but they're is knowledge some don't care to no. Mac's Macs MAC's, you knew what I meant. Why are some MAC people so anal? Forums aren't really formal. And yes I know MAC stands for MAC Address as so many MAC people so adamatly propose. I did it just to annoy you. Thanks for your corrections.. Feel free to excercize your perfect typogrophy and grammatical skillz on this passage. Far be it for me to take away your life's ambitions.

Isn't this biting the hand that feeds you? Do you normally go off on this on people that (I thought) politely pointed out a correction that would be in your best interest to make?

[reader50]

People sometimes nag on spelling/grammar because good language makes content easier to read. I'll admit to regularly editing my own posts to fix small typos, because I'd like my own posts to be good examples.

That said, being careful of text in a help thread is a good idea anyway. A misspelled word can completely change the description of a problem. This can result in odd advice on how to address the problem.

"I'm having a prob with HSF errors, what should I do?"
"First, order some Arctic Silver."

In the above example, "HSF" (Heat-Sink-Fan) was supposed to be "HFS" (Hierarchical File System). The poster got advice on hardware, when they needed advice on disk repair utilities.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Also, 'Mac's' isn't plural, it's possessive. You mean to be saying 'Macs'.

I think you meant to be using double quotes.

The single quotes are used when quotes fall within quoted passages, and while possibly not outright wrong, are in this case quite confusing, since they contain an apostrophe.

And I can understand correcting "MAC", but was this really the time to call the ****ing Apostrophe Police?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I think you meant to be using double quotes.

The single quotes are used when quotes fall within quoted passages

Unless one is British, in which case double quotes are used for quotes within quotes and single quotes are used for normal quotes.

[Mastrap]

Just as a side note, Macs are different from PCs. To expect them to work identically is folly, there is a learning curve and you'd be well adviced to understand the way the OS works rather than force it to work in a PC-like way.

Ironically it is often harder for experienced PC users, such as yourself, to make the switch than it is for new users, simply because you have found ways to work with your PC in a way that makes sense to you.

[Rumor]

Enyovere slhuod jsut clhil out aubot the sleplnig and gmraemr mtkesias.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

Might even go so far as remapping the cntrl-f2 to something easier, like the unused help key or clear key. Is that possible?

Not only can you do this in System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts as others have mentioned, but you can also set shortcuts for application-specific menu items. So if a menu item you use often has no keyboard shortcut, you can give it one.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Enyovere slhuod jsut clhil out aubot the sleplnig and gmraemr mtkesias.

Friggin' Welsh.

[CharlesS]

It took me forever to figure out what "mtkesias" was supposed to be.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Unless one is British, in which case double quotes are used for quotes within quotes and single quotes are used for normal quotes.

Good to know not to correct such an error from across the pond, then. I assume this cross-convention also applies to Canada since I have seen it done there.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Unless one is British, in which case double quotes are used for quotes within quotes and single quotes are used for normal quotes.

I did qualify it as "possibly not outright wrong", because I didn't really care whether it was permissible or not.

My post was more about being needlessly facetious than about any real or imagined grammar mistakes.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Enyovere slhuod jsut clhil out aubot the sleplnig and gmraemr mtkesias.

Hehehe... that's funny because there are so many misspelled words! Genus!

[KeriVit]

Oh people- let it go and help the guy out (as above). Jeezus, do u wanna turn off every Mac switcher off with your snobby ways?!?

[sjohnson4343]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Isn't this biting the hand that feeds you? Do you normally go off on this on people that (I thought) politely pointed out a correction that would be in your best interest to make?

Nah, i don't normally go off on helpful advice. But we all know 's=possesive. It was funny to me that the kind of advice he gave was what one would tell a 5th grader. So I figured it was worth a bit of sarcasam, since I'm far out of the 5th grade, even if I don't always type like it. Now ask me if I care enough to correct every syntax error I type... With my typing skills I hardly have the time for that!

Originally Posted by reader50 

People sometimes nag on spelling/grammar because good language makes content easier to read. I'll admit to regularly editing my own posts to fix small typos, because I'd like my own posts to be good examples.

"I'm having a prob with HSF errors, what should I do?"
"First, order some Arctic Silver."

In the above example, "HSF" (Heat-Sink-Fan) was supposed to be "HFS" (Hierarchical File System). The poster got advice on hardware, when they needed advice on disk repair utilities.

Haha.. well at least in your example the meaning could be misunderstood. Who in their right mind would think I was talking in the 3rd person about my computer being possesive of its keyboard..

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Just as a side note, Macs are different from PCs. To expect them to work identically is folly, there is a learning curve and you'd be well adviced to understand the way the OS works rather than force it to work in a PC-like way.

Ironically it is often harder for experienced PC users, such as yourself, to make the switch than it is for new users, simply because you have found ways to work with your PC in a way that makes sense to you.

I respectfully disagree with this. I think a lot of Mac heads feel the way you do too. The common answer I get from Mac'ers when I have a question about usability is "Well, why would you want to do that?" My answer is always the same, because it's easiest for me to do it that way. PCs have evolved just as Mac's have, and they have some really neat and useful usability features that the Mac doesn't. Not a fault of the Mac really, the Mac has advantages also, but we should be able to pull the features that make life easier from one platform and use them on another.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Not only can you do this in System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts as others have mentioned, but you can also set shortcuts for application-specific menu items. So if a menu item you use often has no keyboard shortcut, you can give it one.

This is a huge Mac feature in my mind! I love this. I'm going to spend some time this weekend trying to tweak the interafcace a bit. I love that these kind of tweaks exist! This really makes my feel about the Mac much better. Hopefully I can save these pref's off and import them to another future Mac! Will have to do some research there..

Thanks for all the help!

P.S.
If i have any grammer errors please don't point them out!

[analogika]

Again: Most everything on the Mac is that way for a reason.

If you try to tweak it to make it more like Windows, you WILL be disappointed.

Yes, both systems' interfaces have developed over time, but the difference between the two is absolutely fundamental, despite the fact that at a first glance, interaction looks similar.

John Dvorak put it quite succinctly IMO, 15 years ago: "Windows 3.1 is like the Mac in the same way that a transvestite is like a real woman. It's 95% the same and actually what some people would prefer, but not really the same for those who care about small differences."

There is a fundamental difference in *attitude* that is all the more difficult to get your head around the more you have grown into the Windows mindset. It's the difference between driving an old Alfa that you constantly had to tinker with and completely rebuild every two years, but you knew and loved its quirks, and driving a new Lexus that will simply get you where you're going in the most direct way, no maintenance involved - literally.

I've seen people - customers - "get it" in ten minutes, others came back and told me it took two days of utter bewilderment, and some don't realize the difference until they turn their Windows PC back on for the first time after three weeks.

[gradient]

Originally Posted by analogika 

...simply get you where you're going in the most direct way, no maintenance involved - literally.

That might be stretching the truth a bit...

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by analogika 

If you try to tweak it to make it more like Windows, you WILL be disappointed.

Quoted for truth that.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by gradient 

That might be stretching the truth a bit...

True. A Lexus *will* need maintenance.

The Mac will require you to click "ok" and enter your password for occasional software updates. That doesn't really qualify as "maintenance" IMO, but if you like...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

This is a huge Mac feature in my mind! I love this. I'm going to spend some time this weekend trying to tweak the interafcace a bit. I love that these kind of tweaks exist! This really makes my feel about the Mac much better. Hopefully I can save these pref's off and import them to another future Mac! Will have to do some research there..

Actually, if you get another Mac in the future, at some point during the setup process there'll be a prompt asking you if you want to migrate your user information from another Mac (you might have noticed this prompt while setting up the Mac you've got). All you'll need is a FireWire cable to connect the two Macs together, and it will automatically copy over all applications, documents, and settings, including any custom key bindings you've set up.

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

P.S.
If i have any grammer errors please don't point them out!

...It's grammar, not grammer
(that's a spelling error, I'm still allowed to correct those right?...just joking with you!)



But hey, Apple has a cool support page called Switch 101 that has tons of useful information for switchers. I'd suggest you check it out in your free time. Hope that helps!

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

But hey, Apple has a cool support page called Swith 101

If you're going to be correcting people's spelling, you'd better get your own spelling right.

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

If you're going to be correcting people's spelling, you'd better get your own spelling right.

Good call.

I told him I was joking anyways.

[sjohnson4343]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

...It's grammar, not grammer
(that's a spelling error, I'm still allowed to correct those right?...just joking with you!)

But hey, Apple has a cool support page called Switch 101 that has tons of useful information for switchers. I'd suggest you check it out in your free time. Hope that helps!

I was wondering if anyone would catch that.. haha I'm going to go surf swith right now.

[Arty50]

Originally Posted by sjohnson4343 

Remember my issue with return and enter? Can anyone shed light on the "clear" key? What the hell is that one?

The "clear" key is a godsend. I'm a bean counter and 10 key all day long. What pisses me off most on windows' keyboards is the fact that I have to reach way over to hit backspace if I make a mistake. Why not just have a backspace key right there? Hence, the 'clear' key. It makes life so much nicer when you're 10 keying.

[Dave N]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Also, 'Mac's' isn't plural, it's possessive. You mean to be saying 'Macs'.

Unless the original poster was making a contraction of the word "Macintoshes". In that case the apostrophe takes the place of all the letters between the "c" and the final "s". We have all become so lazy that we can no longer be bothered to pronounce (or write) complete words such as "Macintosh" when speaking of our computers, or "Knickerbockers" when referring to the New York basketball team. Shame on us all.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Dave N 

Unless the original poster was making a contraction of the word "Macintoshes". In that case the apostrophe takes the place of all the letters between the "c" and the final "s". We have all become so lazy that we can no longer be bothered to pronounce (or write) complete words such as "Macintosh" when speaking of our computers, or "Knickerbockers" when referring to the New York basketball team. Shame on us all.

Wow. You've out-pedanted my pedantry. You rock.