[Simon]

There's new minis. They now come with 512MB standard, APX/BT now built in on the 1.42GHz models.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

[Agent69]

It looks like the modems are now optional as well.

[mathew_m]

I can recommend one now since they upped the base ram. However I'm dissapointed with no optical audio out. Considering that Airport Express was able to fit it in I don't see why they could not do the same with the mini. Too bad because it was the option that a lot of people were looking for to integrate the mini into their home theaters.

[Simon]

The $599 Mac mini is a perfect choice for most entry-level home users I know. Hook it up to a BT KB and mouse and a 802.11g access point and you've got a very decent internet terminal. Many of us who need more than 512MB RAM in our systems also need more than a mini offers (CPU, GPU, DVI, etc.) anyway. For entry-level users the mini just got better than it already was!

[]

Originally Posted by mathew_m

I can recommend one now since they upped the base ram. However I'm dissapointed with no optical audio out. Considering that Airport Express was able to fit it in I don't see why they could not do the same with the mini. Too bad because it was the option that a lot of people were looking for to integrate the mini into their home theaters.

http://m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html

[mathew_m]

Originally Posted by 

http://m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html

Ok. However that's a $99 accesssory also it's another component which means more wires, more plugs etc. It wouldn't of Apple much to include optical out. I'm guessing we'll see it when Apple introduces the Mactel mini next year.

[WOPR]

Come on!! I want some people moaning about the graphics card, they should be posting here by now!!

[]

Originally Posted by mathew_m

Ok. However that's a $99 accesssory also it's another component which means more wires, more plugs etc. It wouldn't of Apple much to include optical out. I'm guessing we'll see it when Apple introduces the Mactel mini next year.

I hope you're right. I agree that it is something that would be a nice addition, but I don't think it makes or breaks the mini with the amount of cheap audio devices out there.

[discotronic]

Very weak update.

[Sparkletron]

Originally Posted by mathew_m

Ok. However that's a $99 accesssory also it's another component which means more wires, more plugs etc. It wouldn't of Apple much to include optical out. I'm guessing we'll see it when Apple introduces the Mactel mini next year.

I agree. This "new" Mini isn't very new at all. How hard would it have been to offer optical digital out for the HTPC/PVR crowd? Is the case any easier to open? Extra slot for RAM? Core Video supported GPU? Standard HD? SATA HD? Anything?

-S

[mathew_m]

Originally Posted by Sparkletron

I agree. This "new" Mini isn't very new at all. How hard would it have been to offer optical digital out for the HTPC/PVR crowd? Is the case any easier to open? Extra slot for RAM? Core Video supported GPU? Standard HD? SATA HD? Anything?

-S

Who wants to bet that Apple has a surplus of minis and this BTO update is more or less to clear inventory.

[andreas_g4]

Originally Posted by mathew_m

Who wants to bet that Apple has a surplus of minis and this BTO update is more or less to clear inventory.

Not me. IMO this is a clear sign of how Apple's strategy will be until we get Intel chips in the mini and laptop line: Price cuts, or more bang-for-the-buck.

I like the idea that they are concentrating on the Intel-powered machines, since it it by far more important that these machines sell like butter that the current ones are.

[uicandrew]

i think of it more as a wal-mart style "roll back prices." i find that the optional modem in the mid and high models is absurd. i mean, how much more does it cost to add a modem? their profit margin isn't THAT thin. it's MORE work for them to start making new mobo WITHOUT a built-in mobo. it's not like anything else is going to be put in the space where the modem is. it's like trying to save a tiny bit of face after losing so much in a negotiation.

otherwise, for selfish reasons, i like the update because my recent mac mini (used, not new) purchase still is a great deal, even with the price drops since there wasn't anything fundamentally changed, like video card or extra ports/dock for ipod.


in another thread, people were discussing processor (cpu and gpu) bumps because if it occured, then the mini would be in the same performance level as powerbook with 4x the cost.

now the ibook is in line with the mac mini, so when johnny gets a new mac for college, he won't have to base his decision on performance when debating between the ibook and mac mini.

[elvis2000]

Originally Posted by mathew_m

Who wants to bet that Apple has a surplus of minis and this BTO update is more or less to clear inventory.

That's exactly it. All of these changes are BTO -- nothing updated on the mainboard, not even the CPU. We won't see any clearance Minis... Apple hoarded the existing inventory and dropped in 512MB and a bluetooth/airport kit. Not even a harddrive update! I think rumors of slow demand have proven true.

The damn thing is, my 450mhz iMac DV+ isn't much lamer than the mini... and it's 5 years old! I miss the "good old days" of frequent updates. Remember when the iMac launched?

[Commodus]

Personally, I think they should have improved the minimum clock speed on the base model. That system is really the runt of the litter now, as paying $100 extra gets so much more (aside from the lack of a built-in 56K modem) that you only get the base model if you just can't justify the cost of moving up. That's probably on purpose, though: upsell the customers who are willing to pay more.

As was already said, though, it's much easier to recommend a Mac mini to someone who wants to spend a bare minimum of cash. You no longer have to ask them to spend $50 on a RAM upgrade just for a comfortable level of performance. They can buy a cheap USB keyboard/mouse combo, a basic CRT if they don't have one already, and they're off.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by WOPR

Come on!! I want some people moaning about the graphics card, they should be posting here by now!!

You know, it is not about moaning or not. This happens for the first time in Apple's recent history. That is, updating a computer with components not capable to fully support the current OS. The 9200 is not programmable. This was no problem the first half of the year, when Tiger was still under development. Keeping the Radeon 9200 in an update that occurs more than two months since Tiger's release, is simply unacceptable.

[ChrisB]

You know it is nice that they added more of the BTO options in, yet kept the prices the same. Yes, the modem (oh no $29) is now an option, but it's not that much. At least the 1GB upgrade for those who aren't comfortable opening their Mini is more reasonable - overpriced, yes, but more reasonable.

I love my Mini. Drop in a Gig of RAM and it's great.

[Rumor Addict]

This computer was stillborn from day 1. Its a cute little box that isnt worth the price due to the dated internals. They should have added all the goodies and dropped the price 100 dollars across the line. For 999 you can get a refurb superdrive iMac. A much better value.

[wr11]

Apple shot themselves in the foot with this one. Granted it's a much better system with base-ram upgrades but for Mac users this could have been their hold-over until the intel macs are in full swing. All I needed was 64MB of Video memory and I would have been sold on it and a 23 inch monitor. If all went as planned I would have upgraded to an intel pro mac when I felt comfortable with where we were with the transition. — oh well —

After all that is said this machine will still do well, it's targeted towards switchers and those are the people who will buy them. I hope the next one is just that much better. As for me, I think I'll stick with my 12inch PB a little longer than I would have liked.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by wr11

All I needed was 64MB of Video memory and I would have been sold on it and a 23 inch monitor.

The Mac mini needed first and foremost more base RAM (it happened) and a better GPU. Not just more VRAM, but a better (programmable) graphics processor. The iBook for example has now the Radeon 9550 which is programmable, even in the 12" configuration. It is beyond my logic why, even after this update, the Mac mini should not be capable to run Tiger to its full graphics potential (that is with Core Image/Video and Quartz 2D Extreme enabled), even with bottom of the line performance. All the portables can now run the Core technologies, why not all the desktops?

After all that is said this machine will still do well...

We will see.

[Krypton]

Mac mini is now more expensive in the UK... bleh

[hudson1]

I was all set to buy a mini this week. Now I won't as it's still not much of an upgrade over my three year old eMac. I'd say that the mini received a "tweak", not an "upgrade".

[mportuesi]

Originally Posted by Pierre B.

This happens for the first time in Apple's recent history. That is, updating a computer with components not capable to fully support the current OS. The 9200 is not programmable.

It depends on how you define "fully support". All of the Core Image APIs are supported on the Mini, via Altivec instructions. Applications that use Core Image will run on the Mini. They simply will not get accelerated by the 9200 GPU.

Perhaps that's what you mean by "fully", but from a software developer's point of view the Mini is not left out.

People fail to grasp the simple point: the Mini is an entry-level machine. Perhaps Apple deliberately leaves Core Image acceleration to the other models as a differentiating feature. And it is a tiny box, with heat issues that will become a problem with a heftier GPU.

[buggsuperstar]

Originally Posted by mportuesi

It depends on how you define "fully support". All of the Core Image APIs are supported on the Mini, via Altivec instructions. Applications that use Core Image will run on the Mini. They simply will not get accelerated by the 9200 GPU.

This is an interesting point.

What exactly is meant by accelerated? In common-speak I mean.

What I mean is would acceleration make my windows draw/resize/update faster? Or perhaps make my Expose run smoother? Or my QT vids run smoother?

[GSixZero]

Originally Posted by mathew_m

It wouldn't of Apple much to include optical out.

You realize that adding optical out is more than just soldering a LED onto the board. Apple has to pay royalties to license the protocols (like dolby) that run digital audio. This can add a significant up front, or per unit cost to Apple. They're already operating on near no margin for the minis, so I wouldn't bet on seeing tons of new features for minis.

Originally Posted by uicandrew

it's MORE work for them to start making new mobo WITHOUT a built-in mobo. it's not like anything else is going to be put in the space where the modem is.

The modem is not built into the mlb/mobo of any mac, including iBook, PowerBooks, and the Mini. They're all separate parts.

I can't believe how much whining there is here about the bottom of the barrel mac.

[far200]

Originally Posted by hudson1

I was all set to buy a mini this week. Now I won't as it's still not much of an upgrade over my three year old eMac. I'd say that the mini received a "tweak", not an "upgrade".

I agree this was just a tweak....... I know that this is for the low end market but an update to the video GPU would have been nice.

[Sparkletron]

Originally Posted by GSixZero

You realize that adding optical out is more than just soldering a LED onto the board. Apple has to pay royalties to license the protocols (like dolby) that run digital audio. This can add a significant up front, or per unit cost to Apple. They're already operating on near no margin for the minis, so I wouldn't bet on seeing tons of new features for minis.

Not a LED--a DAC and a transmitting module. I can look up the parts in Mouser and Digi-Key. Not expensive at all. And Dolby has nothing to do with it. S/PDIF and Toslink involves Sony and Philips. You're joking about the royalities, right?

The cost to adding optical digital out would have been a MOBO redesign and factory retooling.

-S

[hoodmulti]

The should chuck in a G5 to attract people to buy it. Even then, I will only buy a PC, since G5 is so damn hot. I got an iMac G5 still in the Service Centre for the famous midplane logic board problem.
Apple's hardware simply sucks... big time....

[hudson1]

Thinking about this some more, I realized that no one has really mentioned what's probably the best litmus test of whether this update is an update or not:

Would any current Mac mini owners trade their computer in for a rev. B?

I can't imagine any would, especially since these new machines were available as BTO about on Day 1 anyway. Therefore, for all of those potential buyers out there who wanted a mini but felt that the rev. A wasn't good enough, they aren't likely to find rev. B to be good enough, either. So that leaves the only carrot with the rev. B machine as a slightly lower price. Big deal, that's standard in this industry.

I know many will say that the target market is really just current Windoze users but that's a cop-out. If that's the target market then why bother with Bluetooth?

[hakstooy]

Originally Posted by hoodmulti

The should chuck in a G5 to attract people to buy it. Even then, I will only buy a PC, since G5 is so damn hot. I got an iMac G5 still in the Service Centre for the famous midplane logic board problem.
Apple's hardware simply sucks... big time....

heh heh, that might be the all-time biggest troll attempt I've ever seen here.

good show ol' chap

Originally Posted by hudson1

I know many will say that the target market is really just current Windoze users but that's a cop-out. If that's the target market then why bother with Bluetooth?

Does Windows not support Bluetooth or something?

[Sparkletron]

Originally Posted by hudson1

Would any current Mac mini owners trade their computer in for a rev. B?

Am I missing something here? What rev. B? This is the same exact mobo. Same case. Same everything. They added more memory is all.

-S

[mportuesi]

Originally Posted by buggsuperstar

This is an interesting point.

What exactly is meant by accelerated? In common-speak I mean.

What I mean is would acceleration make my windows draw/resize/update faster? Or perhaps make my Expose run smoother? Or my QT vids run smoother?

As far as I can tell, "accelerated" means the ripple effect in Dashboard, which is hardly a must-have feature. (I actually prefer not having the ripple).

Apparently the new QuickTime requires accelerated core image support in order to adjust hue, contrast, etc of a playing video.

As far as windows draw/resize/update, or Expose, I don't think Core Image makes much difference at all. I have no complaints at all with window resizing or Expose performance on my Mini with Tiger.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by mportuesi

It depends on how you define "fully support". All of the Core Image APIs are supported on the Mini, via Altivec instructions. Applications that use Core Image will run on the Mini. They simply will not get accelerated by the 9200 GPU.

Perhaps that's what you mean by "fully", but from a software developer's point of view the Mini is not left out.

I know that Core Image is accelerated by the Altivec unit. But it is left to the developer to decide if this acceleration is adequate or not. For example, Apple dropped completely the Dashboard ripple animation on the machines with a Radeon 9200, despite the fact they have a G4 that could do it. I don't know the reason for that, but my guess is that the software (Altivec) version was rather terrible. So, if it does not work natively on the GPU, in many cases we will see no support for the technology.

People fail to grasp the simple point: the Mini is an entry-level machine. Perhaps Apple deliberately leaves Core Image acceleration to the other models as a differentiating feature.

The eMac got recently a Radeon 9600 and has GPU acceleration for Core Image.

And it is a tiny box, with heat issues that will become a problem with a heftier GPU.

I doubt it, if I judge from today's iBook update with the Radeon 9550, which is essentially a down-clocked 9600.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Sparkletron

Not a LED--a DAC and a transmitting module.

Uhh, no, no DAC. Optical output is digital; it doesn't need a digital-to-analog converter. The transmitting module pretty much just is a red LED in a special housing.

tooki

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by mportuesi

As far as windows draw/resize/update, or Expose, I don't think Core Image makes much difference at all.

Core Image no, but Quartz 2D Extreme yes. And for this one there is no software (Altivec) fall back like in the Core Image case. Q2DE works only on programmable GPUs and nothing less.

[tooki]

Yes, but Q2DE isn't in use at all. Tiger ships with it deactivated on all hardware.

tooki

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by tooki

Yes, but Q2DE isn't in use at all. Tiger ships with it deactivated on all hardware.

tooki

This is also true, but not an excuse to not use a programmable GPU in the new mini. Unless Q2DE will remain disabled for quite some time yet (more than six months), perhaps waiting until Leopard.

[buggsuperstar]

Originally Posted by mportuesi

As far as I can tell, "accelerated" means the ripple effect in Dashboard, which is hardly a must-have feature. (I actually prefer not having the ripple).

Apparently the new QuickTime requires accelerated core image support in order to adjust hue, contrast, etc of a playing video.

If those are the only features (currently) which will require Core Image support, then I'll have to agree with you that they are hardly "must haves".

Originally Posted by mportuesi

As far as windows draw/resize/update, or Expose, I don't think Core Image makes much difference at all. I have no complaints at all with window resizing or Expose performance on my Mini with Tiger.

As long as these features work well, I have no problem with the video card as it is.

Looking forward to getting a new Mini soon.

[AC Rempt]

Keep this in mind about the "new" minis: price.

You now get twice the RAM, something people have complained about more than anything else, and with the higher end models, AE and BT, which used to be $100 add-ons. And on the highest end, these are models the Apple Stores were selling as "ultimate" models and charging $870: you are literally getting more hardware for less money, regardless of the modem, at the highest end, and more hardware for the same amount at the lowest.

No, it's not a revolutionary upgrade, but it s a nice little bump and some money saved over the first minis.

How is this not a good thing?

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by AC Rempt

Keep this in mind about the "new" minis: price...you are literally getting more hardware for less money...
How is this not a good thing?

Because in Europe the minis saw their price go up about 50 euros, that is 60 dollars.

[mishakim]

Originally Posted by mathew_m

Ok. However that's a $99 accesssory also it's another component which means more wires, more plugs etc. It wouldn't of Apple much to include optical out. I'm guessing we'll see it when Apple introduces the Mactel mini next year.

Here's a $30 one that fits in-line with the cable. Buried deep in their KB it says it "just works" on macs, but with no Dolby Digital/DTS (not sure what they mean, since they say it does support digital out; does DVD player not play nice with such things, so the OS just sends PCM?)

[smoke-tetsu]

This is not an upgrade at all IMO. Just BTO sold as a preconfigured model. I have NO incentive to "upgrade" to this and I can't with good concience suggest getting one anymore until they offer REAL updates. Even if that means waiting for Intel. I don't even think this is newsworthy. I would suggest new people to get an eMac instead at least it has a 64MB vid card and faster HD.

Tech progresses with time but I call this stagnation. They better not keep on doing this or I'll just write off the mini as a novelty especially when the rest of the bargain industry leaves it in the dust.
I just think the mini should be treated like a headless eMac is all for me to consider getting a new one and that is the bottom line with me. Heck... having 64mb vram is technically years old tech it's time to stop settling for less just because it is apple. My old PC had 64mb vram. A GPU upgrade is overdue for the mini.

[AC Rempt]

Originally Posted by Pierre B.

Because in Europe the minis saw their price go up about 50 euros, that is 60 dollars.

Really? Not so nice. How much was the AE/BT upgrade plus 256 RAM costing Europeans before?

And my point still stands for the US.

[brother337]

These are all good improvements. The mini is now a considerably better value than before. I don't, however, see how this qualifies as an update or upgrade. The processor or GPU wasn't even bumped.

[Simon]

Yeah, Apple increased European prices by almost 10%. What bugs me about it is that Apple always takes very long to adjust to a weaker USD, but as soon as it recovers only slightly, they take their European prices right back up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the good European sales they had last quarter to be a one-time thing. The European price drop at the beginning of the year surely helped sales a lot.

[yikes600]

To me, the update to 512MB RAM is no improvement. I'll bet the majority of us here are used to at least 1GB and wouldn't settle for less. Since the Mini only has 1 RAM slot, this means removing the 512MB chip anyway.
512MB is adequate if you plan on running just the OS and maybe 1 app at a time.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by yikes600

To me, the update to 512MB RAM is no improvement. I'll bet the majority of us here are used to at least 1GB and wouldn't settle for less. Since the Mini only has 1 RAM slot, this means removing the 512MB chip anyway.
512MB is adequate if you plan on running just the OS and maybe 1 app at a time.

Actually, up until a few weeks ago I was running 10.3.9 on a 466 MHz G4 with only 384 MB of RAM and a Rage 128 Pro (that's only 16 MB of VRAM...try your luck with CoreImage on THAT). And it worked great for me as a general email/web browser/iTunes/productivity machine.

What many of the detractors of the Mini have to realize is that Apple did not design this machine to be for the "majority of us here" in the MacNN forums. We all love our Macs and want them to be the best at everything--we're obsessed enough with our computers that we habitually post on a web forum about new models that many of us don't even own. The Mini is designed for other people, to expose them to the platform, and to be a bare bones machine for those who only plan on doing the typical web browsing/emailing/word processing that occupy the majority of people's time spent using computers. Nothing more, nothing less. Considering that the Mini beats my old computer in practically any spec imaginable, I highly doubt that its intended market is desperate for a more significant upgrade.

[sniffer]

I think this is just a step closer a bottom line Intel Integrated Graphics product next year.

[hudson1]

Originally Posted by sniffer

I think this is just a step closer a bottom line Intel Integrated Graphics product next year.

Agree. At least Intel's approach doesn't limit your video system to 32MB.

[Simon]

I agree that you need to replace the stock 512MB stick with a new 1GB stick if you plan on using the mini as a computer to do some real work. But if you're using the mini as a home media 'server', as a simple surf station or just as a backup device at home, 512MB is probably going to be enough. And let's be honest here, those tasks are what the mini was really intended for.

So the update gives you an additional 256MB RAM for free on all minis and on the 1.42GHz models, they threw in APX/BT for free as well (or for $32 if you really need the BTO modem). That's some nice freebies. Granted, this Tuesday didn't bring a feature or speed bump, but it's certainly a welcome update to the line.