[Eriamjh]

What company will hire this b*tch now?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

What company will hire this b*tch now?

The US government.

-t

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Except that a driver's license doesn't put you in tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and it doesn't take four years of nonstop work to get one.

Not to mention that a license means you can drive, period. A degree does not mean you can get a job. Too many businesses put far too much stock in a college degree these days. It doesn't hold the same prestige that it used to, now that every idiot off the street can get one if they're willing to go into enough debt.

It's still a decent way of screening people out. If you don't have a degree or any notable accomplishments, the odds aren't good that you're what they're looking for.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It's still a decent way of screening people out. If you don't have a degree or any notable accomplishments, the odds aren't good that you're what they're looking for.

Except that most places don't care what accomplishments you have. Boyfriend's got plenty of experience on his resume and excellent references from his previous job as a developer and project manager. But since he doesn't have a magic piece of paper in hand, that experience is completely nullified.

Not to mention that a degree in some bullshit liberal arts program like philosophy or xxxxxx-American studies doesn't actually mean anything in the real world. Standards in higher education continue to sink lower and lower so that idiots can feel less idiotic. As a result, having a degree means much less than it used to.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Except that most places don't care what accomplishments you have. Boyfriend's got plenty of experience on his resume and excellent references from his previous job as a developer and project manager. But since he doesn't have a magic piece of paper in hand, that experience is completely nullified.

The answer's simple: that's only because he's competing against people who have the same experience and references, but have the magic piece of paper. That means his accomplishments don't mean squat.

I have an uncle who heads up oil projects for one of the major oil companies. He's run massive projects in Texas, the Middle East, and Thailand. He was telling me about one meeting he had in Oman, where he had to brief a room of 40 or 50 managers, and he looked around and thought to himself "I've got engineers, MBAs, masters and doctorates of this and that sitting around me... and I've got grade 12, and I'm running the show here."

It's rare - especially in today's world - but it does happen. But you probably have to be some combination of exceptional and lucky in order to do it.

Not to mention that a degree in some bullshit liberal arts program like philosophy or xxxxxx-American studies doesn't actually mean anything in the real world. Standards in higher education continue to sink lower and lower so that idiots can feel less idiotic. As a result, having a degree means much less than it used to.

How do standards in higher education "continue to sink lower and lower?" Where's your basis for that remark? My parents and colleagues all went to the same schools I did and they didn't work any harder than I did. Hell, we're given more information in classes now than previous generations, because the advent of technology makes it easier to "information dump" on students.

I have two friends with Philosophy degrees - one is finishing up law school with me, and the other makes big money working at some fancy company in downtown Toronto.

You're completely missing the point that university educations aren't necessarily supposed to "get you a job in xxxx." Engineering gets you a job in engineering. Comp sci gets you a job doing, comp sci I suppose. What does an Arts degree in History get you? It gets you thinking skills. It hones your ability to write. It focuses your ability to critically analyze a fact scenario, and so on and so forth. Those are skills that you can take with you wherever you go, and they will be valuable to an employer.

You're remarkably ignorant about this sort of thing, apparently, but I guess it's just another one of your stupid rants that end up making you look ignorant later. You do know that "bullshit liberal arts" was traditionally what most university/college grads got, right?

"Having a degree means less than it used to" because education is becoming more of a preferred route for people to take, not because "standards have slipped."

greg

[CollinG3G4]

Most freshmen have a skewed perception about what college is suppose to be. For instance, consider the majority of films that portray the experience. It is all about the party, getting laid, and attending class on occasion. Of course, these aspects have their place in moderation. However, the point of going to college in the first place is often lost. The way I see it, college is about learning information that a company will pay you to apply.
This idea is lost to most students who decide early on that they want to major in something easy so they do not have to work hard. A few years later they graduate with a mediocre degree then bitch about not making 100k a year from the get-go while not knowing much then they did four years ago.

The woman from the article needs a reality check. A BA in business administration with a 2.7 GPA is far from impressive. I bet there were a few hundred other people with the same degree with a better GPA that are having problems finding a job.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

The answer's simple: that's only because he's competing against people who have the same experience and references, but have the magic piece of paper. That means his accomplishments don't mean squat.

I have an uncle who heads up oil projects for one of the major oil companies. He's run massive projects in Texas, the Middle East, and Thailand. He was telling me about one meeting he had in Oman, where he had to brief a room of 40 or 50 managers, and he looked around and thought to himself "I've got engineers, MBAs, masters and doctorates of this and that sitting around me... and I've got grade 12, and I'm running the show here."

It's rare - especially in today's world - but it does happen. But you probably have to be some combination of exceptional and lucky in order to do it.

Indeed. And it's not necessarily a good thing. That piece of paper doesn't mean as much as experience, from what I've seen. I've used very little of what I learned in college out here in the real world - I've found my experiences from internships and jobs to be far more useful. In my experience and boyfriend's experience trying to get a job, not having a degree wholly and unequivocally nullifies any experience you may have.

How do standards in higher education "continue to sink lower and lower?" Where's your basis for that remark? My parents and colleagues all went to the same schools I did and they didn't work any harder than I did. Hell, we're given more information in classes now than previous generations, because the advent of technology makes it easier to "information dump" on students.

Education standards from kindergarten on up have gone down the drain. We're too concerned with a child's self-esteem and making sure they follow their dreams. The result is that you have people in their twenties and thirties who don't comprehend the fundamentals of grammar, arithmetic, and critical thinking.

The technological revolution has, in some ways, made us a lot stupider. We don't have to think anymore. We don't have to retain anything, because it's much easier to whip out our iPhones and Google something that we can't quite remember. We learn how to write poorly, because the only written word we confront outside of the classroom is on sites like Myspace and Facebook, so basic grammatical and spelling errors propagate through the Internet like bushfire, and you end up with college graduates sending corporate memos that are practically incomprehensible because of the lack of proper grammar and spelling.

I have two friends with Philosophy degrees - one is finishing up law school with me, and the other makes big money working at some fancy company in downtown Toronto.

That's great. I've got the artist cousin who's making a living painting. It's not that these fine arts and liberal arts degrees unilaterally mean you won't get a job, it's that you have be the best and the brightest to make a future with such a degree. A family friend of ours has two daughters, both younger than me. I don't remember off the top of my head what they're each pursuing in college, but I do know that it doesn't matter what degree they get - they're both brilliant girls and will excel at anything they encounter. The same can not be said for your average American, who has been raised to be lazy and stupid.

You're completely missing the point that university educations aren't necessarily supposed to "get you a job in xxxx." Engineering gets you a job in engineering. Comp sci gets you a job doing, comp sci I suppose. What does an Arts degree in History get you? It gets you thinking skills. It hones your ability to write. It focuses your ability to critically analyze a fact scenario, and so on and so forth. Those are skills that you can take with you wherever you go, and they will be valuable to an employer.

That's just the problem! This may not be the case in Canada, but my experience in the public university system as I achieved my undergrad degree proved that higher education in the US is not particularly concerned with doing things like "honing your ability to write". My freaking English teacher told my freshman composition class that she was only grading our grammar and spelling because it was a departmental requirement, and she was far more concerned with whether or not we got in touch with our inner selves and developed as unique snowflakes. I don't give two shits about you developing as a person if you're 25 years old and still can't comprehend that "then" and "than" aren't the same motherfscking word.

You're remarkably ignorant about this sort of thing, apparently, but I guess it's just another one of your stupid rants that end up making you look ignorant later. You do know that "bullshit liberal arts" was traditionally what most university/college grads got, right?

Yes, and how many people in a given generation traditionally went to college, versus those who either got into the family business or went into other blue-collar career paths? A university education used to mean something, and it was difficult to get into a university. Now any illiterate fool off the street can get into school somewhere and end up with a degree and an education that means less in the real world than the lint between my toes.

"Having a degree means less than it used to" because education is becoming more of a preferred route for people to take, not because "standards have slipped."

It's a catch-22 - more people prefer to go to college, because more employers value a college degree over real world experience. The dumbass hippie with a BA in Philosophy might get a job over the intelligent guy without a degree because he couldn't afford it, just because of that piece of paper. We're using education as an excuse for a lack of experience, and it just doesn't work in a lot of fields of work. Information technology is a big one, because technology changes at a blindingly fast pace. If I'd been a web developer right out of high school, I could have learned the skills necessary for the job without shelling out $26,000 to do so, and I'd probably be more up to speed on what's going on in IT today.

When I was 17, I started working as a barista at Starbucks. Everyone I worked with was in their mid-20s, and Starbucks was their only source of income. Some dropped out of college because they couldn't afford it, and needed to do more important things like help financially support their family members. Others got college degrees and discovered they couldn't get a real job with their chosen specialty, and were reduced to working at a flipping coffee shop to make ends meet. The stories were similar from the people my mother worked with when she was doing part-time jobs during a period of unemployment several years ago - people with graduate degrees unable to find work because nobody wanted or needed someone with a master's in philosophy, so they were stuck grading standardized tests for the state public school system.

My office mate at work got her BFA in drawing and sculpture, and she quickly discovered she wasn't going to be able to make a career out of that educational choice. She ended up getting her master's in graphic design, and she now does web and graphic design for our team. Without that second degree, she would have found it much, much harder to find stable employment. There are too many examples like this for me to believe that your average person getting a fine arts or liberal arts degree has no problem getting work.

It's not that nobody needs a degree, it's that not everybody needs a degree. Higher education needs to be far more competitive than it currently is, and businesses need to stop worshiping that magic piece of paper like it's the end-all, be-all solution to their staffing needs.

[besson3c]

I'd like to know at what point Universities became vocational schools? Universities are not about getting jobs, plain and simple, never have been. Some might tend in this direction depending on what degree program we are talking about here, but this is besides the point. If you think you will be getting job x by going to a university, you have the wrong expectations going in.

Besides, it goes without saying that nobody could make these guarantees or promises anyway.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

My freaking English teacher told my freshman composition class that she was only grading our grammar and spelling because it was a departmental requirement, and she was far more concerned with whether or not we got in touch with our inner selves and developed as unique snowflakes.

That's pretty sad. My technical communication teacher was a former Army Ranger and told us right off the bat that working hard would earn a C, working our asses off would earn a B, and you couldn't get higher than a B+. He graded our writing content, spelling and grammatical errors (severe penalties for those), speaking ability, presentation skills, group work, etc. It was pretty thorough (I got an A-).

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

\My freaking English teacher told my freshman composition class that she was only grading our grammar and spelling because it was a departmental requirement, and she was far more concerned with whether or not we got in touch with our inner selves and developed as unique snowflakes. I don't give two shits about you developing as a person if you're 25 years old and still can't comprehend that "then" and "than" aren't the same motherfscking word.

So? Sounds like you make the bad choice to go to a shitty college. It wasn't Monroe College, was it?

greg

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I'd like to know at what point Universities became vocational schools? Universities are not about getting jobs, plain and simple, never have been.

I guess that's why their advertising always says something to the effect of, "Want to get a good job? Better come here!"

And I'm sure MBAs were created for all those people interested in business administration on a purely intellectual level.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Not to mention that a degree in some bullshit liberal arts program like philosophy or xxxxxx-American studies doesn't actually mean anything in the real world.

That's great. I've got the artist cousin who's making a living painting. It's not that these fine arts and liberal arts degrees unilaterally mean you won't get a job, it's that you have be the best and the brightest to make a future with such a degree.

You misunderstand what a philosophy degree entails. This degree is all about thinking clearly and logically. If you see it on a resume, it's likely a person who can solve problems and is smart.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I've used very little of what I learned in college out here in the real world - I've found my experiences from internships and jobs to be far more useful.

If your university didn't teach you how to think and how to solve problems, then maybe you should seek a refund. University is not a vocational school, and it never should be. We already have vocational schools.

As a result, having a degree means much less than it used to.

That's because more people have them. A BA/BS is becoming what a high school diploma used to be - the minimum standard. Now, you'll have to compete with grad work or experience. Just part of the continual increase in societal knowledge and skill. Fewer Americans now work in agriculture and manufacturing. That means a change in the educational backgrounds of the workers.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

So? Sounds like you make the bad choice to go to a shitty college. It wasn't Monroe College, was it?

greg

I doubt the university I went to is the only one in the entire United States that's like this.

The classes I took within my degree program/department were good. The classes outside of that...some of them were just retarded.

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

Just part of the continual increase in societal knowledge and skill.

Yet it seems like Americans are getting stupider and stupider with every generation. Having a degree does not guarantee knowledge or skill. It used to, but that just isn't the case anymore.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Not to mention that a degree in some bullshit liberal arts program like philosophy or xxxxxx-American studies doesn't actually mean anything in the real world. Standards in higher education continue to sink lower and lower so that idiots can feel less idiotic. As a result, having a degree means much less than it used to.

Sorry, but you're talking complete nonsense here, and you also don't understand how intelligent people utilize their education.

A philosophy degree, contrary to your statements, can be of great value because it teaches you to think critically. As you're prone to making unsubstantiated blanket statements, this would be of great benefit to you. Where you then take your ability to think critically is up to you. As an employer I see great value in that.

When we recruit, we don't care about somebody's degree. At all. I care about their attitude, I care about their commitment, I care about their experience, regardless where they got it from. I want to know if they want the job on offer.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I guess that's why their advertising always says something to the effect of, "Want to get a good job? Better come here!"

And I'm sure MBAs were created for all those people interested in business administration on a purely intellectual level.

MBAs are an executive training tool. It's a completely different animal from a 4 year bachelors degree.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Yet it seems like Americans are getting stupider and stupider with every generation. Having a degree does not guarantee knowledge or skill. It used to, but that just isn't the case anymore.

Perhaps from a common sense/street smarts standpoint, or some jeopardy like trivia contest, but certainly not from any other standpoint. One very important point is that the younger generation is, well, younger. They are by definition less wise and have less experience than the older generations.

It used to indicate knowledge or skill not because the universities were providing education, but because a university education was less accessible. Therefore, there was already preferential selection involved in the degree holding population and adverse selection in the non degree holding population.

I don't believe your implied argument to be a valid one, anyway. The degree as a sign of quality was more coincidence in the past (due to selection issues) and the expectation of its continuance is misguided. Having a larger portion of the population move through universities means that they will be more educated than in previous eras. It also means that it may be more difficult to differentiate the more capable in the workforce, but that is not a sign of decline in the educational system or in general society.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

MBAs are an executive training tool. It's a completely different animal from a 4 year bachelors degree.

Exactly. MBAs are trained to be business administrators, not "business administrator in retail sales of window treatments" or "business administrator in wholesale food service equipment sales." It IS a "purely intellectual" degree, in that it prepares the degree holder to do BUSINESS in whatever setting and context he or she winds up in. There are MBAs with special focuses, but they first focus on the general area of business administration, and then provide additional work in the special features of their special focus area (IT, medical admin, etc.).

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Except that a driver's license doesn't put you in tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and it doesn't take four years of nonstop work to get one.

Whatever, it still requires a minimum investment of studying and money, but that's not the angle I was interested in anyway.

Look, if you ask someone "Can you drive?" chances are you going to trust someone who has a license over someone who goes, "Yeah, sure, got three years worth of experience under my belt."

Why? Because the license is proof they are in possession of a certain level of skill and knowledge that would be required to attain the license, where as the person with "personal" experience does not. Unless they have some kind of decisive and demonstrable difference in experience (which is suspect BF does not) it would be either a gamble to hire or a chore to determine if the applicant is truly qualified.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Not to mention that a license means you can drive, period. A degree does not mean you can get a job.

A license means you have the ability to drive, but does not guarantee the means, much like a degree means you have ability in a certain field, but does not guarantee you will actually work in it.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Too many businesses put far too much stock in a college degree these days. It doesn't hold the same prestige that it used to, now that every idiot off the street can get one if they're willing to go into enough debt.

That's why we have criteria like GPAs, Internships, and Collegiate Prestige to help parse those "idiots off the street".

Also, one well connected person helps minimize (if not marginalize) all those things. $5 says if you could pull strings where you are, your BF would have a job, though not because of his capabilities, but based on your reputation and endorsement.

It happens more often than you think.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

$5 says if you could pull strings where you are, your BF would have a job, though not because of his capabilities, but based on your reputation and endorsement.

You forgot another option: feminine wiles.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Yet it seems like Americans are getting stupider and stupider with every generation. Having a degree does not guarantee knowledge or skill. It used to, but that just isn't the case anymore.

Statements like this are so woefully ignorant.

Out of one side of your mouth, you're arguing that postsecondary degrees are so common that they're becoming a "worthless common denominator" - but at the same time, you're arguing that all these people who are getting these degrees [i]are not as smart as their previous generations who had high school/or less education.



greg

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

MBAs are an executive training tool. It's a completely different animal from a 4 year bachelors degree.

And? They're found at universities, aren't they? And it's a primarily career-focused degree, right? So it's a meaningful refutation of the statement, "Universities are not about getting jobs," right?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And? They're found at universities, aren't they? And it's a primarily career-focused degree, right? So it's a meaningful refutation of the statement, "Universities are not about getting jobs," right?

I think it's pretty clear that most of us were talking about 4 year bachelor degrees. "Professional degrees" (MBAs, JDs, etc.) are by definition, career-focused.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

A license means you have the ability to drive, but does not guarantee the means, much like a degree means you have ability in a certain field, but does not guarantee you will actually work in it.

I think I'll sue the DMV for not giving me a car when I got my license.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And? They're found at universities, aren't they? And it's a primarily career-focused degree, right? So it's a meaningful refutation of the statement, "Universities are not about getting jobs," right?

But that's insofar irrelevant as most people who go for an MBA already have work experience in their field.

At that point, the undergraduate degree is of very little importance.

-t

[mduell]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Hmmmm?

The filing linked to in the article.

Hand written, no lawyer, misspelled words.

[Dakar V]

Trina Cherisse?

[turtle777]

For real, this is hilarious sh!t.

-t

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The filing linked to in the article.

Hand written, no lawyer, misspelled words.

I'm no mathematician, but $70,000+$2,000 != $75,000. Unless there's something here that I don't understand correctly, which is likely.

Also, "tutision" and "sueing."

[turtle777]

there's more.

I like reinbursement.

-t

[Dakar V]

That 2.7 is looking more and more like an overachievement.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The filing linked to in the article.

Hand written, no lawyer, misspelled words.

They should sue her for ruining the reputation of the school.

[Atheist]

... and $2,000 for the stress I have been going through looking for a full time job on my own.

Oh the poor dear! Welcome to the real world honey... we're all on our own... it's a lonely cold place out there.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Her GPA is above average (remember, a C is average). Her school is regionally accredited, so it is real and not crap as they are held to high standards. Her no experience is not her fault. Her attitude is one of a go-getter.

Now that the petition has been posted, do you still feel that she is a worthy job candidate?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

They should sue her for ruining the reputation of the school.

That depends.

If the school only required a SAT score of 600...

-t

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I'm no mathematician, but $70,000+$2,000 != $75,000. Unless there's something here that I don't understand correctly, which is likely.

hmm... They don't teach math at this college either.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The filing linked to in the article.

Hand written, no lawyer, misspelled words.

I was just poking fun at your spelling.

[mduell]

Augh.

[nonhuman]

The $75,000 is the default amount awarded if the defendants (the school) fail to appear in court. I see no reason that it has to be the same number as the actual damages requested in the suit.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

The $75,000 is the default amount awarded if the defendants (the school) fail to appear in court. I see no reason that it has to be the same number as the actual damages requested in the suit.

I wondered about that. Is that number set by the defendant or the court? Why not put $200,000,000 there and slash the tires of whoever is supposed to show up?

[angelmb]

Your New Job, On YouTube. How the video site helped one college kid learn skills to land a job.

"YouTube is like the free market of knowledge." Mike says YouTube was a critical enabler and educator--and the price was right. "YouTube was free, all I needed was an account and I could search anything I wanted to find out."


The lady has no internet connection I guess…

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I wondered about that. Is that number set by the defendant or the court? Why not put $200,000,000 there and slash the tires of whoever is supposed to show up?

Too bad you can't ask for things like slashing their tires. Or making them eat something disgusting. "On default, the defendant must be my personal slave for a period of not less than 30 calendar days, not to exceed 45 calendar days." Yeah, that idea has merit.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Look, if you ask someone "Can you drive?" chances are you going to trust someone who has a license over someone who goes, "Yeah, sure, got three years worth of experience under my belt."

Not necessarily - if it's a choice between a sixteen-year-old who just got their license and a nineteen-year-old who's been driving for three solid years but happens to not have a valid license, I'll still take the 19 y/o over the kid with no experience.

Also, one well connected person helps minimize (if not marginalize) all those things. $5 says if you could pull strings where you are, your BF would have a job, though not because of his capabilities, but based on your reputation and endorsement.

It happens more often than you think.

Oh, I know - I got my first job because of connections I had previously established with that employer.

Unfortunately, I currently work in higher education. They more than anyone else out there think that a college degree is a necessity to be qualified for any halfway decent job.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Not necessarily - if it's a choice between a sixteen-year-old who just got their license and a nineteen-year-old who's been driving for three solid years but happens to not have a valid license, I'll still take the 19 y/o over the kid with no experience.

I would wonder how the 19-yr-old lost his license. OUI?

[besson3c]

Shif: don't buy into it. Universities are not vocational schools. Not to put too fine a point on this, but a ton of people seem to have this misconception.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Not to mention that a degree in some bullshit liberal arts program like philosophy or xxxxxx-American studies doesn't actually mean anything in the real world. Standards in higher education continue to sink lower and lower so that idiots can feel less idiotic. As a result, having a degree means much less than it used to.

*le sigh*

OK. Here's how this works, as these "bullshit" liberal arts programs DO mean something in the real world. There's at least two ways that they do.

1. The traditional justification goes something like this: Colleges, or the better ones, present the liberal arts as a way of learning how to think, reason and (most importantly) how to write. This has been the job of liberal arts colleges since their foundation, and --then as now-- being able to write well has distinguished its graduates from others who, well, can't.

So what, you say? There are plenty of jobs where command of written language isn't important. However, there are plenty more jobs, good jobs, where this can be the deciding factor. To believe otherwise is to regard education as merely vocational or job training, which it patently isn't, because

2. The value of a typical liberal arts degree (or any degree) does tend to sink with the increasing supply of them. More and more people go to college now, as compared to fifty years ago; hence the value of a basic bachelor's degree has diminished. The idea that "standards" have somehow slipped is typical nostalgia for a world that never existed. The upshot here is that if you want your degree to mean something, it should not be run of the mill.

There's a number of things going on here. First, in this country, we do not have titles to pass from generation to generation ... instead, to a great degree, one's educational level functions as a kind of mechanism for transmitting social capital, often from generation to generation. You CAN climb the social ladder via education, and ironically some of the best ways to do that is to major in the liberal arts, as the very perception of their being useless is class-based, like an inside joke. A cynic might note the liberal arts are precisely the most useful by being the least useful, because they signal to others both the ability to commit to "useless" things (therefore, a person of means) and a willingness to compete in the field of ideas, rather than in the hierarchy of salaries.

The lawsuit is of interest to me not because she has a case, but because it is an inditement of the college in particular and a serious PR problem for them. Again, so what, you say. Well, this college is one that's on the make. If you live in New York and say ride the subways you cannot help but be pulverized by the incessant advertising of colleges like Monroe, with their slogans about putting your education directly to work, and how their degrees (inevitably available in as little as 2 years, 10 months) are a fast-track to career success. Of course, there's no fine print that says "results will vary" or the like, and anyway these trade schools-cum-colleges have discovered there's a lot of money in getting any kind of student to enroll, in part with promises that their curriculum is the gateway to a middle-class lifestyle.

That's not to say that administrators or the like there are getting rich on the backs of students from the Bronx (though they do enjoy some of the very (middle class) jobs they advertise as available via their education to their students). Rather, the steady tuition stream these students bring in, often aided by Federal monies for schools, allow all kinds of sandcastle fantasies for these ambitious administrators to grow. If there's one thing that's true about any school it that it is most interested in its own future, rather than its students' futures. Students come and go, but expanding the campus is forever.

They sell this dream ... really, this is not unlike the folks who sold complex mortgages to people who clearly didn't understand them or who could not really benefit from them. As with this college, the people brokering the deal benefit. Like I said, the lawsuit doesn't have any merit because a real education is not a contract and results are not guaranteed; however, her lawsuit shines a light at the sad, expensive dream factory that many sub-standard degrees represent, and puts to lie the false, blowhard advertising of their quick steps for success, guaranteed in part because they are so "practical" and "real world."

In point of fact people who are a success after Monroe were going to be a success, mostly because of qualities Monroe may or may not have had anything to do with. Therefore, the question becomes, what is the value of a Monroe degree ... and this woman has answered that question with her suit.

If Monroe's smart they'd fix this pronto.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Timo 

If Monroe's smart they'd fix this pronto.

If Monroe is smart, they offer her to RETAKE years of college for free, to correct what they have done wrong in the first place.

Just handing her money to shut up would be a shame - and a dangerous precedent. Just imagine if this becomes sort of a "money back guarantee" for every idiot who fails to secure a job, despite a stelar 2.x GPA.

-t

[Timo]

Well of course they cannot give her money ... that would imply there really IS a quid pro quo between college and a job. Even if their advertisements imply there is, there isn't.

But they do need to shut this down in some way. Sounds like the jobs liaison has a new priority.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Timo 

But they do need to shut this down in some way. Sounds like the jobs liaison has a new priority.

They could hire her at minimum wage to find jobs for other recent graduates with similar resumes to her own. Now that would be interesting.

[tooki]

Even though I have a great job, and I got a great education and graduated magna cum laude, maybe I should sue my alma mater because I'm not making 6 digits, or 7...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by tooki 

Even though I have a great job, and I got a great education and graduated magna cum laude, maybe I should sue my alma mater because I'm not making 6 digits, or 7...

Not earning up to your educational expense potential? SUE!!!