[davidflas]

About a week ago my Dual 1.25Ghz MDD FW800 mac started acting up. It froze, so I restarted and had no video and the USB ports didn't work . I couldn't reset the pram and the keyboard didn't work. I reset the pmu switch and that seemed to work for a few days, but the problems came back. I have applecare, so I called apple, the tech thought that resetting the pmu a few times as I did might have fried the logic board. Apple suggested that I take my mac to the local service tech to have it looked at.

So I took it down there and described the problem. The listened and then said that it would cost $50 to diganose the problem since I had third party ram and video card (radeon 9800) I thought this sucked, becuase I could have put an apple video card back in and removed the ram myself and saved the $50. I just got a call from the Mac repair shop stating that the cost would now be $100 since they had to reformat the drive and reinstall the software from the cds I gave them. WTF!

They stated that the Radeon is the problem. So now I have a computer with a wiped HD, it still doesn't work, and I'm out $100.
So, what good did Applecare do me!! I don't expect them to fix the Radeon obviously, but damn!! Am I wrong to be upset??

[djohnson]

Nope. I hope you did have a backup... I would try and report that place to Apple themselves. Did they ask you if they could wipe the HD?

[wataru]

That definitely seems odd. But why didn't you just take the computer back and replace the RAM and video card when they wanted you to fork over the $50?

[mitchell_pgh]

You voided your warranty by installing your own ram and video card.

You should have placed the original back in (but that wouldn't have helped because the problem would have gone away)

If you buy a car and modify the engine by placing a performance fuel injection system in it, then have issues with the fuel injection system, why should the dealer pay?

[davidflas]

I did back up the HD before taking it in for service, but I feel that I was mislead by the store. I called ahead to see what I should do before bringing it in and the guy didn't say anything about removing third party upgrades. As I said, I'll be out $100 and still won' t a working mac!

[mitchell_pgh]

The Applecare provides extended service/repair on the original items, not whatever you place in the system.

[davidflas]

Let me clarify:

I'm not looking for Apple to cover a problem with the video card or any other add-on that I placed in my Mac, but I didn't expect them to charge $100 for diagnostic work.... I would expect them to say:
"We traced the problem to a non-Apple component, we can't help you with that, no charge for the diagnostics since you have applecare." What they said was "We traced the problem to a non-Apple component, we can't help you with that, but we have to charge you $100 for the diagnostics even though you have applecare."

[mitchell_pgh]

A diagnostic is only free when covered under Applecare. They preformed a diagnostic only to find that the cause of the problem was something that you modified, thus they needed to charge you for the diagnostic.

Like my previous example with the car. So if you take the car in (the one with the special fuel injection unit) and they put a mechanic on it for an hour only to find it was something you did to the car, they don't deserve some kind of compensation?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by davidflas:
I did back up the HD before taking it in for service, but I feel that I was mislead by the store. I called ahead to see what I should do before bringing it in and the guy didn't say anything about removing third party upgrades. As I said, I'll be out $100 and still won' t a working mac!

Did you say "Don't do anything unless I approve it" or did you say "Fix it"?

[dialo]

Originally posted by davidflas:
About a week ago my Dual 1.25Ghz MDD FW800 mac started acting up. It froze, so I restarted and had no video and the USB ports didn't work . I couldn't reset the pram and the keyboard didn't work. I reset the pmu switch and that seemed to work for a few days, but the problems came back. I have applecare, so I called apple, the tech thought that resetting the pmu a few times as I did might have fried the logic board. Apple suggested that I take my mac to the local service tech to have it looked at.

So I took it down there and described the problem. The listened and then said that it would cost $50 to diganose the problem since I had third party ram and video card (radeon 9800) I thought this sucked, becuase I could have put an apple video card back in and removed the ram myself and saved the $50. I just got a call from the Mac repair shop stating that the cost would now be $100 since they had to reformat the drive and reinstall the software from the cds I gave them. WTF!

They stated that the Radeon is the problem. So now I have a computer with a wiped HD, it still doesn't work, and I'm out $100.
So, what good did Applecare do me!! I don't expect them to fix the Radeon obviously, but damn!! Am I wrong to be upset??

We have one of those scamming repair places here, too, called Nabhi's.

The lesson I've learned: never, ever, ever take your machine to one of those places. They make their money by taking advantage of ignorance and blaming everything on third party components (particularly RAM). They will also claim that covered parts are not covered in an attempt to make you pay.

Send it into apple. Those reprair places are crooked.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Don't pay them and call apple about it.

[davidflas]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
A diagnostic is only free when covered under Applecare. They preformed a diagnostic only to find that the cause of the problem was something that you modified, thus they needed to charge you for the diagnostic.

Like my previous example with the car. So if you take the car in (the one with the special fuel injection unit) and they put a mechanic on it for an hour only to find it was something you did to the car, they don't deserve some kind of compensation?

I think the car comparison is stretching it a bit, since video cards are meant to be replaced. but anyway, I am going to pay them. Next time I'll know to return my mac to stock condition before bringing it in for repair. I just didn't think the video card could possibly be the problem.... I have learned a thing or two about Applecare......

[itai195]

If you void the warranty by putting in your own RAM, then it's not a warranty worth buying.

[awaspaas]

Hold on a minute. Adding RAM or a video card to a PowerMac voids your warranty? I don't think so. Tinkering with the processor maybe, but Ram and video cards are user-replaceable parts, at least in a PowerMac!!

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by itai195:
If you void the warranty by putting in your own RAM, then it's not a warranty worth buying.

I'm not saying it totally sucks , but it's a way for Apple to protect themselves (like if someone buys $20 512 RAM sticks that ends up breaking the system... why should Apple pay for that...). I don't think they should charge him, and if it were Apple directly, I bet they wouldn't have an issue, but it's an authorized whoever. They usually try to nickel and dime everything to death.

PS, technically you void your one year warranty if you install RAM as well, it's not only Apple, it's the whole computer industry.

[starman]

How could adding your own RAM void your warranty if the documentation tells you how to do it?

Mike

[awaspaas]

Aren't there PICTURES inside iBooks and stuff that show you how to replace RAM?? Besides, why would a PowerMac even have spare PCI slots if your warrany was voided the second you put something in one?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by awaspaas:
Hold on a minute. Adding RAM or a video card to a PowerMac voids your warranty? I don't think so. Tinkering with the processor maybe, but Ram and video cards are user-replaceable parts, at least in a PowerMac!!

Yes, it does void your warranty... If it's not Apple RAM installed by a Apple tech or service center.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

The Plan does not cover:


Installation, removal, or disposal of the Covered Equipment, or installation, removal, repair, or maintenance of non-Covered Equipment (including accessories, attachments, or other devices such as external modems) or electrical service external to the Covered Equipment;

Damage due to accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, improper environment (including lack of proper temperature or humidity), unusual physical or electrical stress or interference, failure or fluctuation of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, or acts of God;

Any equipment with a serial number that has been altered or removed;

Problems caused by a device that is not the Covered Equipment, including equipment that is not Apple-branded, whether or not purchased at the same time as the Covered Equipment;

Service necessary to comply with the regulations of any government body or agency arising after the date of this Plan;

Recovery or replacement of any data or software stored on the Covered Equipment;

Repair, replacement, or maintenance of items that have been subject to wear and tear, such as cases, key caps, knobs, handles, batteries or mechanical parts.

The provision of replacement equipment during the period when the Covered Equipment is being repaired.

http://www.apple.com/support/product...lan_terms.html

[awaspaas]

I understand it doesn't cover it if your bargain basement RAM goes apesh!t and wrecks yor machine, but the mere act of replacing RAM on your own does not void the warranty. Same for video cards.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by starman:
How could adding your own RAM void your warranty if the documentation tells you how to do it?

Mike

From apple.com

What kind of activities are excluded from my warranty coverage?
Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty for iBook excludes coverage for damage resulting from a number of events, including accident, unauthorized service and unauthorized modifications. Please review the warranty for further details. If damage is outside the scope of warranty coverage, service may still be provided through a local AASP or an Apple retail store, but all service charges will be your responsibility. In such an event, you will be asked to approve the estimated charges and accept the terms and conditions for service before authorizing the repair.

From the warranty itself

This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, misapplication, or non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not an Apple Authorized Service Provider; (c) to a product or a part that has been modified without the written permission of Apple; or (d) if any Apple serial number has been removed or defaced

[itai195]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I'm not saying it totally sucks , but it's a way for Apple to protect themselves (like if someone buys $20 512 RAM sticks that ends up breaking the system... why should Apple pay for that...). I don't think they should charge him, and if it were Apple directly, I bet they wouldn't have an issue, but it's an authorized whoever. They usually try to nickel and dime everything to death.

Yeah it was an authorized reseller, but I hope Apple wouldn't have charged him (they wouldn't have erased his hard drive without permission, at least). I can understand Apple protecting themselves against users who install faulty parts, but running a diagnostic should be free if the customer has AppleCare. If the diagnostic finds that the user installed part is to blame, then they can charge for repairs.

This is probably just a case of getting screwed by a reseller, but it might point to the larger picture that AppleCare for a Power Mac may not be worthwhile.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by awaspaas:
I understand it doesn't cover it if your bargain basement RAM goes apesh!t and wrecks yor machine, but the mere act of replacing RAM on your own does not void the warranty. Same for video cards.

I'm not 100% sure. I know Apple isn't going to F@#$ you, but at the same time, it's like the warranty on a car if you don't have proof that you get your oil changed.

(c) to a product or a part that has been modified without the written permission of Apple; or

[wataru]

It sounds like they won't cover you if bad RAM breaks your machine. But that's not the same thing as saying that installing RAM yourself voids the warranty. My girlfriend recently sent her iBook in for servicing under Apple Care and they determined that the problem was the cheapo RAM I bought her a year ago. They didn't charge her.

[awaspaas]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I'm not 100% sure. I know Apple isn't going to F@#$ you, but at the same time, it's like the warranty on a car if you don't have proof that you get your oil changed.

(c) to a product or a part that has been modified without the written permission of Apple; or

RAM is completely user-replaceable, that's what the instructions are for. If your optical drive stopped working on its own, Apple would not refuse to replace it under warranty simply because you opened up the machine to put your own RAM in, as it seems you're implying.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by awaspaas:
RAM is completely user-replaceable, that's what the instructions are for. If your optical drive stopped working on its own, Apple would not refuse to replace it under warranty simply because you opened up the machine to put your own RAM in, as it seems you're implying.

While I realize Apple doesn't enforce it, I feel they could if push came to shove. I think it's there to protect them from people fiddling with their systems and then returning them.

I agree that if your superdrive dies, and you have RAM installed, they aren't going to deny you... that being said, the original post stands. It wasn't covered under the warranty because of the modification.

[angelmb]

Originally posted by wataru:
It sounds like they won't cover you if bad RAM breaks your machine. But that's not the same thing as saying that installing RAM yourself voids the warranty. My girlfriend recently sent her iBook in for servicing under Apple Care and they determined that the problem was the cheapo RAM I bought her a year ago. They didn't charge her.

My Al 17" went to AppleCare, hard disk is dead, OK, they replace it, no charge of course. My PowerBook went again to AppleCare, it does not start, OK, a not factory Transced 512 MB RAM module is bad, Apple take it out and send me it back, so I can send it to the dealer where I bought the PowerBook. No problem with AppleCare.

I do not see the label 'Warranty void if removed' label over any PCI or RAM slots.

[starman]

Originally posted by wataru:
It sounds like they won't cover you if bad RAM breaks your machine. But that's not the same thing as saying that installing RAM yourself voids the warranty. My girlfriend recently sent her iBook in for servicing under Apple Care and they determined that the problem was the cheapo RAM I bought her a year ago. They didn't charge her.

Bingo.

Mike

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by angelmb:
I do not see the label 'Warranty void if removed' label over any PCI or RAM slots.

It's on the box as you open it (a sticker I think on the plastic) that you break saying that you agree to the terms etc. etc.

[itai195]

Well anyway this just goes to prove why warranties on desktops are generally worthless. Unfortunately as Mac owners we get stuck in an uncomfortable position of having to rely on Apple authorized repairs and parts for some of our system components, unlike PC owners who can just buy replacements at any computer store.

[Kilbey]

I am siding with mitchell_pgh on this one.

If you do something to the computer hardware that originally came with the computer to cause it to fail, I believe you should be liable. I don't think Apple should foot the bill for diagnostics if the problem is caused by non-Apple components. If Apple computer components fail, I expect Apple to pay for them.

If I added faulty gas to my car and it caused the spark plugs to foul or the injectors to plug, I don't expect the manufacturer to cover it under warranty. I do expect the gas station to pay though.

But if I put the wrong gas in my car, I am screwed.

[angelmb]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
It's on the box as you open it (a sticker I think on the plastic) that you break saying that you agree to the terms etc. etc.

I wrote that only to note that my PowerMac has the label over the component some people use to overclok it, to have it over empty PCI/RAM slots would be a ridiculous situation, that is, under warranty you can add pci cards and/or RAM modules, right?. Just only my input about the topic.

[awaspaas]

Originally posted by angelmb:
I wrote that only to note that my PowerMac has the label over the component some people use to overclok it, to have it over empty PCI/RAM slots would be a ridiculous situation, that is, under warranty you can add pci cards and/or RAM modules, right?. Just only my input about the topic.

I agree.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I am siding with mitchell_pgh on this one.

If you do something to the computer hardware that originally came with the computer to cause it to fail, I believe you should be liable. I don't think Apple should foot the bill for diagnostics if the problem is caused by non-Apple components. If Apple computer components fail, I expect Apple to pay for them.

If I added faulty gas to my car and it caused the spark plugs to foul or the injectors to plug, I don't expect the manufacturer to cover it under warranty. I do expect the gas station to pay though.

But if I put the wrong gas in my car, I am screwed.

On that note as well. Someone mentioned about Modding a Car. You CAN mod your car. If you end up having a problem that is not related to the mod then it HAS to be/is covered under warranty. For example if you put an aftermarket Exhaust and Air filter in your car and something goes wrong with the electrical and your car is under warranty the Dealer DOES have to fix it under warranty since the part that went bad is not releated to what you did aftermarket. Another example if you put in a Performance chip and your engine blows the dealer could say that the aftermarket chip you put in was the cause and then not cover the repair under warranty.

If the part is user installable then I think repairs should still be covered under warranty unless it was the RAM that caused the problem. If they remove the RAM and the problem goes away then the RAM would not be covered under your AppleCare. Same for the video card.

NOw if you have a powerbook and try to install a new drive and screw it up that also would not be covered since the part you were trying to replace was NOT user installable.

[itai195]

Sure, but I don't think you should be charged to run a diagnostic just because you put in your own user-installable parts. If they turn out to be the problem, then maybe charging for the diagnostic is justified, but he was charged up front.

[Link]

No FW/USB would be a problem of the motherboard not the video card.

Unless you're not getting USB over ADC, that's a different story. The fact is they're just finding the quickest way to bust your ass and make you pay for wasting their time.

Unless they're a step ahead of you, slip back in the original parts, go to another place, and if they say that tell them the first place wasn't very competent and you had a lot of problems dealing with them, etc.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by itai195:
Sure, but I don't think you should be charged to run a diagnostic just because you put in your own user-installable parts. If they turn out to be the problem, then maybe charging for the diagnostic is justified, but he was charged up front.

I agree, they should just hook you up with simple crap like that, but some people are hard up for the cash.

[awaspaas]

I'm pretty sure we all agree this repair place is a serious douche. Not sure what you can do about it now. Next time, send it to Apple - it's probably just as quick and much more professional.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Yes, it does void your warranty... If it's not Apple RAM installed by a Apple tech or service center.

It does not void your warranty, but it may not be covered by it.

[davidflas]

The upfront charging is my main beef here. I was told when I dropped off the machine that it would cost me $50 no matter what the issue was because I had a third party video card and ram. I understand being charged for diagnosis if the third party parts caused the problem, but I was charged upfront, before and work was done.....

[Link]

Apple doesn't cover parts they don't make. Duh

[awaspaas]

Maybe you should tell the store to send the bill to ATI!

[olePigeon]

Your video card (depending on how old it is) has a manufacturer's warranty. You should call ATI and have it replaced, then tell them it damaged other components of your computer. Ask them to compensate for repairs, it's not an unreasonable request.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Link:
Apple doesn't cover parts they don't make. Duh

Apple really doesn't make much of their computers (other then the motherboard and case.)

[Link]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Apple really doesn't make much of their computers (other then the motherboard and case.)

True. I kinda meant it the usual way

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Link:
True. I kinda meant it the usual way

Yah, but it's funny how so many people think Apple only uses proprietary hardware...

[Link]

Ugh come on you knew what I meant.. I meant the apple warranty only covers what was in the machine they sold you.

I am planning to eventually swap quite a few of my g4's guts out for "standard PC guts", ya know new hard drive, SATA card, new vid card, and a crapload of ram... oh yeah a fast combodrive too (I'll get rid of that superdrive and hide it in an external case somewhere).

Hrmm yeah I think that'll do

[heresiarh]

never bought apple care for any of my products.

[davidflas]

Latest update, the shop couldn't tie the problems to the ram or video card to my satisfaction. I gave them a new video card to use, and watched the ram pass several ram tests from the apple pro hardware test cd. The also ended up replacing the motherboard. Now I have a new problem, the Mac totally freezes twice a day. This is with a new motherboard, and a fresh install of panther. the drive was formatted and zeroed out.. this is really frustrating...

oh yeah, and they wanted to charge me $175 to run the apple diagnostic software, and reformat the hd, but they stuck with the original $100.


and I still don't have a working Mac!

[angelmb]

Originally posted by heresiarh:
never bought apple care for any of my products.

Bought first one today, AppleCare for my 17" PowerBook, it is expensive but hope can with no fear about it. Hope have had AppleCare for my Pismo too (bad screen, bad dvd drive).