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Xbox 2 Launching On MTV May 12th (Page 7)
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Uriel
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May 20, 2005, 09:33 AM
 
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/616/616591p1.html

what follows is an excerpt of that page:

Q&A segment START
IGN: Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on Playstation 3?

Jan-Bart (Killzone ps3 designer): Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.
Q&A segment END

IGN commentary START
And the damn controversy continues. Notice how no one ever comes out and says, "Dude that's me playing." You know, we don't even get a simple, "The footage was generated using the in-game engine and a lot of cool scripting." We always just have to settle with, "Hey, look at Killzone! It's what we intend Killzone to be." What does that even mean anyway?

So now we come to it... What do IGN editors think. Is the Killzone video real? Will the Killzone game look like that?

Jeremy Dunham - IGNPS2
"I don't think so. I think the only way the game will look like that is if they spent several more years in development and knew how to exploit the Playstation 3 to it's fullest. I have no doubt that they can produce cutscenes that good, but then again, the cutscene gave that away!"

Ed Lewis - IGNPS2
"We're probably going to see similar type graphics... hopefully. Because that's what they're aiming for, but... oh man. Hopefully. I mean, right now it's just a concept video. What will it be? I don't know. It's way too early to tell."

Ivan Sulic - IGNPS2
"Hell no."

Juan Castro - IGNCube
"Yes. It will. On PS4... 2009. Or maybe 2015."

David Clayman - IGNXbox
"No. No. No. If that's the style of the game, it will look like that, but not at that level of quality. That had seperate animations for every single movement. That is not a game. It was total CG. Those little things give away stuff like that real well."

Doug Perry - IGNXbox
"It doesn't look real to me, but it's what I want the game to look like and I hope. But I don't think the developer is capable of that, especially based on the first game."

Stephen Butts - IGNPC
"No. The video is real in the sense that it exists in this time continuum, but no, it does not reflect what the game will look like."
     
ajprice
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May 20, 2005, 09:35 AM
 
The Killzone demo was an "interpretation" of a PS3 Killzone game. Read into that what you will about whether it was pre rendered or not.

From an interview on http://IGN http://ps3.ign.com/articl.../616591p1.html :

"Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PlayStation 3?
Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make. "

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker  (op)
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May 20, 2005, 10:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uriel
I didn't see this mentioned so......

All the PS3 movies were pre-rendered.....

Remember when Sony said PS2 would have "Toy Story" graphics?

I have no console loyalty whatsoever I own a PS2, PSP and an XBox, but Sony has been known to over hype and sometimes flat out lie about it's products.

I'll believe it looks as good as Kill Switch when they show me.

That's nice, why don't you post it in the PS3 thread then and not the xbox one

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Hawkeye_a
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May 20, 2005, 10:07 AM
 
So...ummm...

was it a pre-rendered video or real-time cg ?
     
Uriel
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May 20, 2005, 10:11 AM
 
That's nice, why don't you post it in the PS3 thread then and not the xbox one
Because I was responding to comments like this...

I'm no big gamer, but from what I've seen so far, regarding demos from the xbox2 and the PS3, the xbox games look like complete crap, and some of the sony games look damn amazing.

Just having a discussion....
     
MrSundberg
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May 20, 2005, 11:24 AM
 
All the PS3 movies were pre-rendered.....
Link

GamesIndustry.biz: One question on the lips of many people at the moment: how much of what we saw in the PlayStation 3 demos was actually running in real-time?

Phil Harrison: Everything in the demos was real-time.

And what about the game footage clips?

Not all of that - in fact, none of it was real-time because it was all running off video. If you make a presentation to two and a half thousand people, you're going to put some of it on video just to be on the safe side.

I've been asked this question a lot. The way we put those videos together, everything was done to specification. Everything was done to PS3 spec. Virtually everything used in-game assets; some things were rendered.

How representative of what we're actually going to be seeing in PS3 games were those videos?

I think very. I think depending on the game, different games took a different approach to their way of expressing what the games are like - but clearly, something like Motor Storm uses more cinematic, replay-like cameras than you would ever enjoy in-game. So that makes a big difference... But everything is done to spec.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I do will buy the argument that some, perhaps even most clips where pre renders. But some!=all.

And as an aside to all. Please lets try and cut the holy wars and inflammatory posts to a minimum folks (pretty please). The subject of the next gen consoles are interesting enough without having to mix that bit into it.
     
Hawkeye_a
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May 20, 2005, 11:38 AM
 
So basically all(or most) of the CG we saw at the PS3 launch was rendered in real-time on a PS3 at some point in time ? (which was possibly captured to video for the presentation).

Well thats cool, i guess that sets my expectations for first gen games on the PS3. looking forward to it .
     
ort888
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May 20, 2005, 12:05 PM
 
We should pull up the tech demos they ran when first showing off the PS2 and see how they compare to what a PS2 was able to do. Does anyone have those videos still?

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shatten22
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May 22, 2005, 01:42 PM
 
Uh, Killzone, by far the most amazing of all the PS3 "demos" was pre-rendered. And Phil there is a Sony rep. Don't believe anything he says. I hope Sony can deliver us a gaming experience like that, but I still remember what the "Emotion Engine" was supposed to do for gaming. And what it didn't.

g
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker  (op)
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May 26, 2005, 01:06 AM
 
IGN: When we spoke with Steve (Balmer, CEO, Microsoft; read the interview), Peter and Robbie last night, I asked a question about the games that were shown at the conference. Because I wanted to know at what point the development kits were, and at what level these games are being shown. Are these games being shown at only 20% to 30% of the Xbox 360's capacity? Are they running on the Xbox 360 graphics chip? And Peter was saying that the games shown at the conference, for the most part, were in-game generated using the latest dev kits, and are PC based, and using a PC-based graphics chip. So, can you tell us about where these games visually are now, versus where they'll be at launch?

Shane: I think a safer approximation is that we're probably at 25% of the power of that we'll really be. I think as we progress in the hardware, you'll see a tremendous improvement in terms of graphical fidelity. And I think from a development standpoint, we've been using the time very wisely because we haven't been trying to make the games look as great as possible necessarily on the hardware development kits that we have today. We've been really working hard on things like gameplay, things that we really push now. So, visually? Probably 25% of where we can be.

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shatten22
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May 26, 2005, 02:34 AM
 
remind me who "Shane" is again...
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker  (op)
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May 26, 2005, 09:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
remind me who "Shane" is again...
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/619/619067p1.html

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nforcer
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May 26, 2005, 04:40 PM
 
Final Fantasy 8 "Screenshot"


Final Fantasy 8 In-Game:


Sony is full of crap.
Genius. You know who.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker  (op)
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May 26, 2005, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by nforcer
Sony is full of crap.
Sony? This is the Xbox thread.

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Hawkeye_a
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May 27, 2005, 02:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Sony? This is the Xbox thread.
Well there's no point in saying M$ is full of crap....it's like saying the sky is blue.

As for Sony...iim disappointed that they tried to pull this hoax.... as far as M$ and Sony's E3 keynotes...dosent that fall under false advertizing ? they make claims of the hardware with examples, when the examples themselves are false and got barely any connection with the actual product ?

I personally dont see how those things are 13X or 35X better than current generation games. In all seriousness, i think Nitendo has made a far more realistic claim of their console being 2-3X better. (And ill go so far as to claim actual game performanc and quality in all next gen consoles will be about 2-3X better)

Note: M$ & Sony...quit lying and hyping and try delivering something. I remember with Windows XP...all about the 'experience' video chats, etc,etc....what ppl got was the same old crap.
Nintendo...for heavens sake... hype ur stuff some more, u need the marketing and publicity more than M$ or Sony.
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; May 27, 2005 at 04:34 AM. )
     
shatten22
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May 27, 2005, 04:11 AM
 
Yah, all the big corporations are full of it at some point or another. (Even Apple. Oooooooh. Watchu gonna do?)

Nintendo, IMHO, has always been the most realistic. I really respect how they for the past eight or so years have been really comfortable taking up third or second place. Nintendo has its King-markets (handhelds) and they are comfortable with their track record. They don't seem to really lose money.

I for one own all the systems right now, but I don't know if I will this next generation. If the PS3 and the XBOX are pretty similar, what's the point? Neither of their respective IPs interest me THAT much (I love Halo, but Halo2 was pretty much a letdown in my opinion). I figure I'm safe if I get one; all the major companies will make games for both. Nintendo, however, will always have a place in my entertainment rack. No matter how old I get, I still love Mario and Zelda. And supposedly Revolution has a few more tricks up its sleeves, possibly controller wise. Can anybody say return of the POWERGLOVE!!

in my dreams, in my dreams.
     
nforcer
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May 27, 2005, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
Yah, all the big corporations are full of it at some point or another. (Even Apple. Oooooooh. Watchu gonna do?)
Indeed. Without a doubt all of them are full of crap. Inflated figures to try to keep a mindshare, wildly exaggerated claims about what is coming, etc. I was just remarking that Sony is moreso full of crap with a screenshot demonstration of the last (err, current) generation for those who were posting killzone and other ps3 stuff earlier. MS showed more gameplay-related video and has released more actual gameplay screenshots at their E3 conference. Sony on the other hand showed a lot of CG video at E3, then them or the developers of said video dodged questions on its authenticity. If MS set the hype scale to 8 out of 10, Sony is hovering somewhere above 30. Nintendo has a vague promise of a "revolution" but has shown nothing more than a case.

The thing is, even with all the marketing crap ("the PS3 can process 18 kabillion polygons per second" or whatever it is), I do trust Nintendo more than the other 2. When they said with the Wavebird "maximum range: 30 feet" or whatever it was, people found it worked well beyond that. If Sony and MS said "maximum range: 30 feet" I would take that as meaning "30 feet if no one in a 200-foot radius is using a cell phone or microwave, and only with a direct line of sight to the receiver", so realistically, probably a max of 20 feet if it came from them. Also note the console specs for the last generation.

PS2: 38 Million polygons per second (one texture layer)
Xbox: 100+ million/sec (transformed and lit polygons per second)
Gamecube: 6 to 12 million polygons/second (Assuming actual game conditions with complex models, fully textured, fully lit, etc.)

Most PS2 games when compared to GC or Xbox ports look noticeably worse. 38 million polygons / sec, yeah right. "Emotion engine" rendering Toy Story realtime, yeah right. Note that while a lot of Xbox ports look better than their GC equivalents, they don't look 88 million polygons /sec better. Although some developers have done some really nice realtime effects on both the GC and Xbox.

It seems like pretty much whatever polygon performance MS and Sony are claiming for the next gen, divide by 10 for the realistic figure.

In other words, I feel Sony has negative credibility (total crap), MS is not far behind (but at least they showed more actual gameplay and released more in-game screenshots for E3), and Nintendo has decent credibility even if they have not shown anything yet.

Originally Posted by shatten22
Can anybody say return of the POWERGLOVE!!
I can!
Genius. You know who.
     
shatten22
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May 27, 2005, 11:42 PM
 
Ah.. the Wizard. Just think. That could have been Fred Savage hosting the MTV Xbox Craptacular instead of Frodo...

Also, another point in Nintendo's favor is the size of the Gamecube. The Xbox's graphics advantage doesn't really necessitate it being that large, does it? The gamecube is the size of small tissue box and it pumps out some mean graphics.

I do love my Xbox though. I hope Nintendo's "Revolution" isn't Vitual-Boy-ish. That thing sucked.
     
Hawkeye_a
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May 28, 2005, 10:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
Ah.. the Wizard. Just think. That could have been Fred Savage hosting the MTV Xbox Craptacular instead of Frodo...

Also, another point in Nintendo's favor is the size of the Gamecube. The Xbox's graphics advantage doesn't really necessitate it being that large, does it? The gamecube is the size of small tissue box and it pumps out some mean graphics.

I do love my Xbox though. I hope Nintendo's "Revolution" isn't Vitual-Boy-ish. That thing sucked.

Lets not forget:
- cost of producing an Xbox vs a Gamecube
- price of Xbox vs GameCube to consumers
     
Busemann
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May 28, 2005, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
I hope Sony can deliver us a gaming experience like that, but I still remember what the "Emotion Engine" was supposed to do for gaming. And what it didn't.
So, what exactly didn't it do? For the most part, PS2 games of today far exceeds the tech demos that were showed prior to its launch.

It's just an urban myth that Sony under-delivered in this gen, and also that the PS2 had few original titles. In fact, I'd say it was the best machine of all (Ico, Rez, GT, MGS, Tekken 5, EyeToy etc etc). Overall, I've used my PS2 way more than my XBox.

That people have unrealistic expectations is their problem.
     
shatten22
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May 28, 2005, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
So, what exactly didn't it do? For the most part, PS2 games of today far exceeds the tech demos that were showed prior to its launch.

It's just an urban myth that Sony under-delivered in this gen, and also that the PS2 had few original titles. In fact, I'd say it was the best machine of all (Ico, Rez, GT, MGS, Tekken 5, EyeToy etc etc). Overall, I've used my PS2 way more than my XBox.

That people have unrealistic expectations is their problem.
Uh... "Toy Story-like graphics". Remember that claim? PS2 was supposed to be the system that gave us in game gaphics that were the same as cut-scenes. Instead we got games that at least in the first generation weren't that different from what the Dreamcast was putting out at the time.

Don't get me wrong, PS2 has some great games. But since getting my Xbox, the PS2 has been turned on ONCE. And that was for God of War which is truly an amazing game. Everything else has been supported by both formats and the Xbox versions are awlays better in terms of graphics AND sound.

And by the way, It isn't an urban-myth at all. Sony claimed one thing, WE got another. It's why I respect Nintendo - they were telling us exactly what kind of experience we were going to get and we got it. Sony kept going on and on about how the PS2 was something more than a gamestation; it was a computer entertainment center.

I don't know about you, but I still don't know what that firewire port does on my PS2 and I haven't seen one video-editing suite (which they promised at launch). And again, no Toy Story graphics. Just lots and lots of jaggies.


     
MrSundberg
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May 28, 2005, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
Uh... "Toy Story-like graphics". Remember that claim? PS2 was supposed to be the system that gave us in game gaphics that were the same as cut-scenes. Instead we got games that at least in the first generation weren't that different from what the Dreamcast was putting out at the time.
IIRC that was a gaming mag that said that, not Sony.

It's why I respect Nintendo - they were telling us exactly what kind of experience we were going to get and we got it. Sony kept going on and on about how the PS2 was something more than a gamestation; it was a computer entertainment center.
Yes, lets remember Nintendo and their "The N64 will be as powerfull as an SGI workstation"...

Your latter point is called "value adding" or in this case trying to highlight points, potential ones, of your systemt that makes your system seems like a better value proposition. It's all crap of course, but allso solid (albeit a tad dirty) marketing. Kind of like what the rest of the console manufacturers usually does, in one form or another.
     
Busemann
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May 28, 2005, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
Uh... "Toy Story-like graphics". Remember that claim?
Link please

I don't know about you, but I still don't know what that firewire port does on my PS2
I've used it several times to play link-up with GT3. Not a whole lot of games supported it, though, which is why they removed it in the slim version. What I wonder about is what that slot underneath the Nintendo 64 was meant for, or the VMU's on the Dreamcast, or how many people who actually used the handle on the GC
( Last edited by Busemann; May 28, 2005 at 04:47 PM. )
     
Hawkeye_a
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May 28, 2005, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
Link please
1. About the "toy story like graphics" , Ive seen ppl bringing that quote up on several game sites when talking about the PS3 demos. i doubt so many ppl could make such a similar claim, unless Sony actually said it.

2. Wouldnt it have made sence to use an ethernet connection to hook up several PS2 instead of firewire ? i mean, it would have made the whole unit cheaper.
     
Busemann
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May 28, 2005, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a
1. About the "toy story like graphics" , Ive seen ppl bringing that quote up on several game sites when talking about the PS3 demos. i doubt so many ppl could make such a similar claim, unless Sony actually said it.
Well, this is what Microsoft's Seamus Blackley said about the Xbox back in 2001:

"One of the basic premises of the Xbox is to put the power in the hands of the artist," Blackley said, which is why Xbox developers "are achieving a level of visual detail you really get in 'Toy Story.'"
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-250632.html?legacy=cnet

It's also revealing to see how most true Xbox-fanboys are suddenly screaming it doesn't matter how powerful the console is, while they were shouting the benefits of having the best console during the Xbox-era.

Oh well..
( Last edited by Busemann; May 28, 2005 at 07:25 PM. )
     
Hawkeye_a
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May 28, 2005, 05:20 PM
 
Like i said , it's all hype. in fact im not surprized that you pointed that out about Blackley. I guess the point is...dont beleive the hype put forth by M$(EVER) or Sony. Nintendo tends to make realistic claims, and is often seen as the 'weeker' system, when in fact it's performance is quite high (at least with the N64 and GameCube)

having said that, i wouldnt take M$'s or Sony's word right now. Nintendo said the NRS would be 2 or 3X more powerful than the GC, and i beleive them. I'll be looking at the launch titles to reserve my judgment of the performance of these systems. heck i'm really liking the wuality of games coming out for the GC now (RE4, MPE, TLOZ, etc)....im satisified....developers are finally starting to exploit this gen hardware, id like to see some artistic talent expressed to the fullest.

Cheers

Edit>> i reckon M$ knew the XB360 wouldnt be able to stand up against the PS3 intro, so they started talking about the kind of stuff Nintendo has been over the last couple of years during their E3 keynote. (expanding the audience, introducing new genres, power isnt everything its teh games that matter,etc)...bunch of phonies if u ask me.
     
MrSundberg
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May 28, 2005, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a
1. About the "toy story like graphics" , Ive seen ppl bringing that quote up on several game sites when talking about the PS3 demos. i doubt so many ppl could make such a similar claim, unless Sony actually said it.
You'd be suprised, really.

It's viral marketing at it's finest. :-)
     
shatten22
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May 31, 2005, 09:05 PM
 
So-

Buseman couldn't find the link, and MrSundberg, you *could* be right, viral marketing is a possibility. But I don't think so. I recall Mr. Ken Kutagari (or however you spell it) talking about how the PS2 could push 66 million polygons making Toy Story graphics a reality. Don't believe me? I call Mr. KK to the stand himself. Take a gander at this you link-happy sony fanboys.

http://www.hipinteractive.com/cms/co...yStation21.pdf

"You can communicate to a new cybercity," gushes Ken
Kutaragi, the visionary behind the PlayStation. "This will be the ideal home server. Did you see the movie
'The Matrix'? Same interface. Same concept. Starting from next year, you can jack into 'The Matrix'!"


Uh, somebody likes the crazy sauce. Maybe that's why they forced him to step down?

Here's another good link:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05...s_6126725.html

Now, I'm not a fanboy of any of these systems. I own all three. I play Gamecube the least, then Ps2 and then Xbox (need my 480p and Dolby Digital). I just love how Nintendo deals with all of this crap. It's amazing. They're really nutty and fantastic I think.

And Buseman, the VMU's on Dreamcast helped me keep my Seaman alive and let me choose plays the one time I play NFL 2k1.. And I carry my gamecube by the handle whenever it travels which has been...twice. At least Nintendo didn't say the handle was capable of making my bed, they said it was a handle. Sony said the firewire ports would let me make movies and crap on my PS2.

And the port on the bottom of the N64? It was for the Digital Disc drive which never made it over here.
http://www.totalgames.net/pma/10129

Any other questions? My point through all of this is Sony is usually full of hot-air. the Xbox team hypes a lot, you can't trust Microsoft, but I got my Xbox experience, we'll see if they can continue it one more round. Knowing Gates, I'll probably wake up one night with my Xbox 360 hovering over me holding a hypodermic needle.

And Nintendo seems to be perfectly happy with where they are. And they seem to making money.

whatever, bring on the games.

     
shatten22
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May 31, 2005, 09:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by MrSundberg
Yes, lets remember Nintendo and their "The N64 will be as powerfull as an SGI workstation"...

Your latter point is called "value adding" or in this case trying to highlight points, potential ones, of your systemt that makes your system seems like a better value proposition. It's all crap of course, but allso solid (albeit a tad dirty) marketing. Kind of like what the rest of the console manufacturers usually does, in one form or another.
And I was talking about the GameCube. They said 6-9 million polygons or something and we've been getting better than that on recent games. Like I said, they delivered what they promised. I still haven't seen 66 million polys on the PS2. And I doubt we will see 500 million polys on the Xbox360.

Value adding?

     
MacHarbor
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May 31, 2005, 09:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
And the port on the bottom of the N64? It was for the Digital Disc drive which never made it over here.
http://www.totalgames.net/pma/10129

The Super Nintendo also had a port on the bottom of the system, which was gonna be fore the Super Nintendo CD-ROM drive (oh do I remember the days of reading Nintendo Power and seeing pictures of The 7th Guest as their 'example' of a game that could have been on the SNES).

Picture of the Japaneses CD-ROM hooked up to the Japanese SNES (Super Famicom)
http://cpicchio.free.fr/musee/supern...nes_cd-rom.jpg


Funny this is that while I searched for that image, I found this...

http://www.retrones.com/Perifericos/...k%20System.jpg
2nd Gen NES with a freaking floppy drive. Now that is old school.
     
shatten22
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May 31, 2005, 09:34 PM
 
The CD drive was going to be made by Sony. When Nintendo nixed the deal, Sony went on to develop the Playstation.
     
Busemann
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Jun 1, 2005, 06:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
So-

Buseman couldn't find the link, and MrSundberg, you *could* be right, viral marketing is a possibility. But I don't think so. I recall Mr. Ken Kutagari (or however you spell it) talking about how the PS2 could push 66 million polygons making Toy Story graphics a reality. Don't believe me? I call Mr. KK to the stand himself. Take a gander at this you link-happy sony fanboys.

http://www.hipinteractive.com/cms/co...yStation21.pdf
While the original PlayStation could handle a mere 360,000 polygons per
second, version 2 can spit out more than 20 million: it's a jump from "South Park" to "Toy Story."
This just seems like a metaphor, not that the graphics will actually be like Toy Story. Besides, it is Newseek that wrote it, it wasn't a statement by Ken Kutaragi.

The only thing Sony promised us with the PS2 was the tech demos they showed at TGS in '99 (GT2000, Tekken etc). Now, almost all new titles look far better than that. Much of the hype you remember is done by the media itself.

Also keep in mind that the PS2 was announced and released at the height of the internet hysteria ('99-'00). People really believed the world would have full broadband coverage within 1-2 years. Even though that still hasn't happened, it is technically capable of doing video-chat, movie editing and large scale online play. It will be interesting to see if this vision will come true for the next-gen consoles, though.
( Last edited by Busemann; Jun 1, 2005 at 08:42 AM. )
     
MrSundberg
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Jun 1, 2005, 08:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
Value adding?

Oh my, yes.


Company A and company B are tying to sell a device that does X, for roughly the same amount of money.

Now to try and get an upper hand, company B allso starts to promote that besides doing "X" it could allso do things "Y" and "Z". By doing this they are tacking on additional values to the product in question, thus hopefully giving it an competetive advantage over Company A's device.


Not that most people would need, or even use feature "Z" and "Y" of course. SUV's are a good example of why this works, few people actually use their capabillety to go out in the rough, but it still helps to sell them.
( Last edited by MrSundberg; Jun 1, 2005 at 01:06 PM. )
     
PJW
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Jun 1, 2005, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
It's also revealing to see how most true Xbox-fanboys are suddenly screaming it doesn't matter how powerful the console is, while they were shouting the benefits of having the best console during the Xbox-era.

Oh well..
Yeah. Kinda like the PS2 fanboys who are creaming their pants over the PS3's graphics, when they were the ones who said that awesome graphics don't matter.
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Busemann
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Jun 1, 2005, 12:37 PM
 
More fun to witness the Xbox fans who say it doesn't matter that Perfect Dark Zero will only run at 30fps, though.
     
nforcer
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Jun 1, 2005, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
More fun to witness the Xbox fans who say it doesn't matter that Perfect Dark Zero will only run at 30fps, though.
60 is ideal, but I would rather have 30 and have it be stable than have it slow from 60 -> 15 under heavy or even semi-heavy load. Of course, it will slow under heavy load, it's just a matter of finding out how much. Even Metroid Prime, which promised a constant 60 slowed at some parts.
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macaddict0001
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Jun 2, 2005, 02:40 AM
 
It is likely that the revolution will have the best graphics of the three, because it supports out of order processing which means the pipeline won't have to be emptied nearly as often.
     
Hawkeye_a
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Jun 2, 2005, 04:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by macaddict0001
It is likely that the revolution will have the best graphics of the three, because it supports out of order processing which means the pipeline won't have to be emptied nearly as often.
Where'd you find this information ? im really interested in such information on the consoles.
     
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Jun 2, 2005, 08:26 PM
 
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker  (op)
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Jun 2, 2005, 08:33 PM
 
Personally I don't care how much each system costs. It's worth it.

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ajprice
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Jun 4, 2005, 04:24 PM
 
Here's a picture of XBox and 360 side by side, so the 360 is smaller, but not by much. I haven't seen any pictures of PS2 and PS3 side by side, but I'd guess that PS3 would be similar in size tp PS2 (the original PS2, not the present slimline version, duh!).


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Busemann
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Jun 4, 2005, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by nforcer
60 is ideal, but I would rather have 30 and have it be stable than have it slow from 60 -> 15 under heavy or even semi-heavy load.
Well, it's worrying that they have to make such tradeoffs at this stage. The 5-20fps in GoldenEye for instance, was worth it so they could implement the multiplayer mode and advanced AI. Now that they have such powerful tools at their disposal, they should have a really good reason to skimp on the frame-rate.

The screenshots so far have arguably failed to impress as well
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker  (op)
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Jun 4, 2005, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
The screenshots so far have arguably failed to impress as well
It has been mentioned several times that all the demos were running on G5 dev systems that are crippled and running at 1/3 what the final will be like.

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shatten22
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Jun 4, 2005, 06:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
This just seems like a metaphor, not that the graphics will actually be like Toy Story. Besides, it is Newseek that wrote it, it wasn't a statement by Ken Kutaragi.
Read the article. Ken "Krazy" Kutaragi was quoted about how the PS2 was going to allow you to "jack into the Matrix."

g
     
shatten22
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Jun 4, 2005, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by MrSundberg
Oh my, yes.


Company A and company B are tying to sell a device that does X, for roughly the same amount of money.

Now to try and get an upper hand, company B allso starts to promote that besides doing "X" it could allso do things "Y" and "Z". By doing this they are tacking on additional values to the product in question, thus hopefully giving it an competetive advantage over Company A's device.


Not that most people would need, or even use feature "Z" and "Y" of course. SUV's are a good example of why this works, few people actually use their capabillety to go out in the rough, but it still helps to sell them.
Thank you for the definition for value adding. Wasn't asking for that. You were accusing me of value adding, to which I rolled my animated eyes and pointed out that I wasn't. All I said was something to the effect of Gamecube mostly delivered on what they promised and Sony didn't. Which adds to my point that I would be careful about believing whatever Sony claims they can do until we can actually SEE and PLAY it.

g
( Last edited by shatten22; Jun 7, 2005 at 12:44 AM. )
     
Busemann
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Jun 5, 2005, 07:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
Read the article. Ken "Krazy" Kutaragi was quoted about how the PS2 was going to allow you to "jack into the Matrix."

g
Again, just a metaphor. The matrix is symbol of a virtual world where people interact and play with each other, much like any MMORPG.

Don't tell me you were surprised the sentinels didn't arrive when you turned it on the first time
( Last edited by Busemann; Jun 5, 2005 at 08:25 AM. )
     
shatten22
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Jun 5, 2005, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Busemann
Again, just a metaphor. The matrix is symbol of a virtual world where people interact and play with each other, much like any MMORPG.

Don't tell me you were surprised the sentinels didn't arrive when you turned it on the first time
Ugh. Really dislike having to go to this effort. Next time, please read the link before posting.

"Previous attempts to merge the Net with game consoles
have flopped, but Sony thinks it can buck the trend. "You can communicate to a new cybercity," gushes Ken Kutaragi, the visionary behind the PlayStation. "This will be the ideal home server. Did you see the movie 'The Matrix'? Same interface. Same concept. Starting from next year, you can jack into 'The Matrix'!"

Let's break it down. "You can communicate to a new cybercity." Ok, no metaphor there. Cybercity is just another term for "online community," is it not? How many people use their PS2 to communicate in an online community? Besides the six people that bought the Final Fantasy Online game. Kinda sounds like Xbox Live.

Next up: "Did you see the movie 'The Matrix'? Same interface. Same concept." Well, I'm sorry but the dude sounds nuts. Sure, it should be a metaphor. But what's with the "same interface." crap. I can't imagine he means that somebody's gonna stick one of those electronic dildos into a hole in my head, but who knows? But let's give Krazy Ken the benefit of the doubt, let's say it's an error in translation, the point is (and the point I was making in all those other posts before I got fanboyed) that Sony promised everything with the PS2 in terms of experience (just like they are with the PS3) and delivered on only one thing: updated graphics.

I will give them this: Ps2's last year of production before PS3 brought us the EyeToy, which I think is a great, innovative, device that expands the gaming idea. Finally somthing that uses the USB port. But it's not one half of what they promised us. And they did say "Toy Story-like graphics." Ken's quote was to illustrate that they were directly behind their own "viral marketing."

g
     
Busemann
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Jun 5, 2005, 12:34 PM
 
And they did say "Toy Story-like graphics."
No they didn't. As I showed, it was MS that did. But what difference does it make? You obviously don't know the concept of PR-speak at all. Every company with a new gizmo tends to boast a little in interviews and the journos always cheer along.

As for what they actually showed (games demos, video tech previews etc) they were spot-on.

There are many reasons for why some of the visions didn't pan out, the internet burst being the major one. How cool would it really be to attach a USB printer and do shopping on the PS2 anyway?
     
shatten22
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Jun 5, 2005, 01:33 PM
 
Ok, so MS was saying "Toy Story-like graphics" when the PS2 came out? What are you talking about? Just because MS said it later, doesn't mean it implanted itself in the minds of consumers and reporters everywhere like a virus. That's lunacy. Like this past E3, Sony was showing CGI-level clips and then delivering jaggie-ass graphics.

I do understand the concept of PR speak, I just choose to be one of the people that don't blindly accept it as acceptable business practice. Sony went beyond PR speak with their promises. And the internet burst was the reason we all weren't online with our PS2's?

Why is it so hard for you to accept that Sony goes a bit overboard with the technical capabilities and real-world uses of their products? They dream big and deliver little.
     
Busemann
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Jun 5, 2005, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by shatten22
Ok, so MS was saying "Toy Story-like graphics" when the PS2 came out? What are you talking about? Just because MS said it later, doesn't mean it implanted itself in the minds of consumers and reporters everywhere like a virus. That's lunacy.

If someone said it for the PS2, it sure wasn't Sony. Perhaps it stems from a newspaper or online games site?

I'm just amazed that Sony gets the heat for over-promising all the time. It's really not fair to say they did it for the last two generations, at least not any more than the competitors. Btw. if you're against PR speak and "crazy" visionaries, how can you be an Apple user in the first place?
( Last edited by Busemann; Jun 5, 2005 at 02:13 PM. )
     
 
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