[Sky Captain]

Rumors are fueled by a shortage of truth.

[docbud]

Here's the link that works:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...h/2315076.html

I'm still reading it. Do you have an opinion?

[Sky Captain]

Thanks...

[thunderous_funker]

Well, some it seems like good clear thinking.

I have to question their assessment of response and the anarchy, however. I'm not interested in the blame game, seems to me lots of blame to go around on this one. But they make it sound as if all the horror and disaster was media hype.

Well, I've got friends working for the Red Cross down there and the first hand reports are positively chilling.

[Sky Captain]

I was there(Baton Rouge actually). There was lots of clutter and no power.
I wanted to go into NOLA and see for myself but I had higher priorities at the time.
But I didn't hear of any "chaos" from the other transport pilots.

[IonCable]

I belive there is plenty of blame all around from the Feds down to the people that chose to stay and not leave when the evac order came. I think the news media went over board on the reporting. The news media has taken a real turn from reporting the facts/unbiased/observors to what really is happening to a Reality TV/shock value/get it first and damn the facts mentality.

[cmeisenzahl]

They didn't debunk Rove personally blowing up the levee? ;-)

[Rumor]

[Kevin]

Just like most of us have been saying for months.

Some people will blame Bush for anything.

It's Silly™

[Rumor]

Part of being President is being held accountable for the actions of your staff.

[Kevin]

Did you not read the article at all?

[Rumor]

My response was to your response.

[Kevin]

Ok, cool. Now go read the article. Because my response was in response to it. And it makes your response irrelevant.

[Rumor]

I'll have to wait until I get home. My work has filtered that out for some reason.

[Spliffdaddy]

You must be employed by the Democratic National Committee.

[Leia's Left Bun]

I hear the holocaust also didn't happen.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

...Katrina didn't happen?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Leia's Left Bun

I hear the holocaust also didn't happen.

That didn't make sense. Go back, try again.

[gadster]

Popular Mechanics? The rag who's research editor is Ben Chertoff? The cousin of Michael Chertoff, the Homeland Security guy? Right...

[Sky Captain]

The same people who trashed all the European's conspirocy bullshit over 9/11.

I went to NOLA and Baton Rouge just after the hurricane.
PM was pretty spot on.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

New video shows Bush being briefed before Katrina hit.

Ooooooo. The plot...thins.

greg

[Powerbook]

Transcript shows governments underestimated Katrina

Thursday, March 2, 2006; Posted: 7:01 a.m. EST (12:01 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Six months after Hurricane Katrina ravaged New Orleans, a newly released video transcript from the day the hurricane struck seems to reinforce stinging criticism that governments at all levels were ill-prepared for the storm that flooded most of the city and killed more than 1,300 people.

Michael Brown, then-director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which held the briefing that was videotaped at noon on August 29, was confident the emergency response was well in hand.

He praised Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and others for "doing a good job" and assured officials that President Bush, who was vacationing at his Crawford, Texas, ranch, was in close touch.

Bush has been accused of showing poor leadership in the disaster, and for indicating, along with Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, that no one could have anticipated the immense destruction or that the levees surrounding New Orleans would be breached.

However, the August 29 transcript -- and one from the previous day -- show that National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield was worried Katrina might push water over the levees.

"I don't think anyone can tell you with confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not, but that's obviously a very, very great concern," Mayfield said.

After the storm, Bush said, "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," and Chertoff agreed.

In an apparent effort to deflect criticism from the Bush administration, Homeland Security officials highlighted in yellow parts of the transcript that showed any weakness by local officials.

For instance, although the levees had failed by early in the morning on August 29, Blanco was unaware of this during the briefing.

"We keep getting reports in some places that maybe water is coming over the levees. We heard a report unconfirmed. I think we have not breached the levee," she told the group.

Brown stresses that Bush was heavily involved.

"I talked to the president twice today, once in Crawford and then again on Air Force One," Brown tells those at the briefing. "He remains very, very interested in this situation.

"He's obviously watching the television a lot, and he had some questions about the Dome (Superdome), he's asking questions about reports of breaches. He's asking about hospitals. He's very engaged, and he's asking a lot of really good questions I would expect him to ask," Brown added.

Bush, who participated in the FEMA briefing on August 28, assured other officials that everything was under control.

"I want to assure the folks at the state level that we are fully prepared to not only help you during the storm, but we will move in whatever resources and assets we have at our disposal after the storm to help you deal with the loss of property. And we pray for no loss of life, of course," he said.

Bush did not participate in the next day's briefing. By that time, 11 inches of rain had fallen in New Orleans, and about 15,000 people were in the Superdome. That number of people eventually doubled, leading to days of intolerable conditions before they could be bused elsewhere.

The August 29 video was requested by the Senate Homeland Security Committee in its investigation of where the response to the storm fell short.

Brown resigned in September after a barrage of criticism of his handling of the hurricane, prompting him to accuse the administration of using him as a scapegoat.

In response to the August 28-29 videotapes, the White House said the briefings represented only a snapshot of what went on behind the scenes before the storm struck. Bush, the White House said, was fully engaged in emergency preparations.

At the August 28 briefing, Brown told Bush he was concerned that the roof of the Superdome -- the shelter of last resort for New Orleans -- would be unable to withstand a Category 5 hurricane. Katrina was a Category 3 at landfall.

And he voiced concern about the ability of national response teams "to respond to a catastrophe within a catastrophe." He said he had heard that there had been no mandatory evacuations of patients from hospitals and inmates from prisons.

On Wednesday, Brown's attorney, Andy Lester, said the most recently released tape "shows that Michael Brown was sounding the alarm" with the White House and the DHS.

"He was repeatedly saying move things forward, push the envelope, jump over the envelope!" Lester said in a written statement.

"Michael Brown was on the job, was doing his job, and was making sure people above him at the White House and DHS were fully aware of everything that was going on in an extremely timely and urgent manner," Lester said. "It paints a different picture than what we have seen painted thus far."

More than 1,300 people were killed by Katrina in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida. A special House committee concluded last month that the response to Katrina at all levels of government was "dismal," poorly planned and badly coordinated, showing that "America is still not ready for prime time" more than four years after the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security Committee, said the tape "demonstrates for all to see what our committee discovered during its investigation of the preparations for and response to Hurricane Katrina."

"Government at all levels was forewarned of the catastrophic nature of the approaching storm and did painfully little to be ready to evacuate, search, rescue, and relieve," said Lieberman, D-Connecticut, who had accused the White House of stonewalling the committee.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/...pes/index.html

[osiris]

This only confirms that Uncle Sam won't be there when you need him most. Call it bureaucracy, call it ignorance, call waiting, whatever you want. Chinooks should have been on standby and ready to airlift supplies the very moment the winds died down.
At the very least, Michael Brown appears somewhat less ignorant than originally suspected.

[Y3a]

Yep...Looks like "W" and company stepped on their wee-wee's BIGTIME!

Its' still stupid to live below sea level during huricane season.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Y3a

Yep...Looks like "W" and company stepped on their wee-wee's BIGTIME!

Its' still stupid to live below sea level during huricane season.

That's one of the things that pisses me off. Yes, the government was slow to respond, but that's the government for you. If they weren't slow we'd all get our tax refunds in a timely manner.

It IS stupid to live below sea level. You think the French Quarter was saved because of a conspiracy against the poor? No, it's social and econimic barriers that did that. Native Americans had no problem with it because they knew to live on higher ground. When the Europeans invaded, they weren't stupid either. The French Quarter is the most expensive because that's where the higher-class citizens lived, on the higher ground. If you can afford a better place to live, you do. That's what happens.

So why were so many minoirities and low-income people affected by the hurricane? Because they were all stuck in the lower parts of the area. It's simple as that. You could blame the Administration and the Mayor for sitting on their asses and not building levies, etc., but that's only small part of the problem.

Maybe we should also be looking into why there were so many minorities in the "cheap side" of New Orlenes. That's an issue that covers the entire country, not just a single state.

[skalie]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

It IS stupid to live below sea level.

( I know some dolphins and dutchmen that would disagree )

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by skalie

( I know some dolphins and dutchmen that would disagree )

I would imagine dolphins are better suited to live below sea level than poor people with no idea how to protect themselves from a hurricane.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I would imagine dolphins are better suited to live below sea level than poor people with no idea how to protect themselves from a hurricane.

But it's up to EVERYONE ELSE to accommodate their stupidity.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

But it's up to EVERYONE ELSE to accommodate their stupidity.

Unfortunately, yes - If accommodate means saving lives.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Y3a

Yep...Looks like "W" and company stepped on their wee-wee's BIGTIME!

Its' still stupid to live below sea level during huricane season.

Looks like lots of blame shifting to me.

But then again, I'm not a Bush hating zealot.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

...no, you just refuse to accept any blame or accusation that is laid against a Republican.

It's all so relative, non?

greg

[Kevin]

Waaaaaaah? Where did you get that from?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Well, in case anyone needed a lesson on what Democrats hopelessly mired in blame-game politics will do when it's time to rise up and take care of business when a disaster looms, Katrina was the demonstration.

Yup.

Sit on their asses and whine for a Republican 1,000 miles away to save them.

Somehow, the whole thing to me was like a metaphor for what I've come to expect out of the CAN'T DO crowd. A whole lotta NUTTIN', then a whole lotta whining and finger-pointing and blaming everyone else in the aftermath. Way to go.

[Kevin]

Correct. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

[Sky Captain]

My wife and I have taken in a Katrina victim seeking to make a new life here in Atlanta.
Her name is Tabitha. She's a 38 year old single mother.
She been here a week and already has a job interview.

I am part of the solution.
It starts locally. From the citizenry.

It's a government OF THE PEOPLE.

[analogika]

yeah, and it's supposed to be by the people, and FOR the people, too.

[Sky Captain]

Of the people.

And it is for the poeple.
The government is not a babysitting service as some want to believe.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Of the people.

And it is for the poeple.
The government is not a babysitting service as some want to believe.

You yourself have already admitted to taking someone in, and in turn, extended a helping hand.
That is quite admirable and wonderful. But what if you weren't the babysitter, and no one else was around?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

My wife and I have taken in a Katrina victim seeking to make a new life here in Atlanta.
Her name is Tabitha. She's a 38 year old single mother.
She been here a week and already has a job interview.

I am part of the solution.
It starts locally. From the citizenry.

It's a government OF THE PEOPLE.

WAY TO GO CAP!

You make me proud to be an American.

God Bless The U.S.A.
by Lee Greenwood

If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I’d worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
with just my children and my wife.

I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.

And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

From the lakes of Minnesota,
to the hills of Tennessee.
Across the plains of Texas,
From sea to shining sea.

From Detroit down to Houston,
and New York to L.A.
Well there's pride in every American heart,
and its time we stand and say.

That I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

And I’m proud to be and American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by osiris

You yourself have already admitted to taking someone in, and in turn, extended a helping hand.
That is quite admirable and wonderful. But what if you weren't the babysitter, and no one else was around?

Evolution. Survival of the fittest.
Why hinder advancement of the species.

[aberdeenwriter]

And which of you Fuzzy Brained Liberals should be eating crow today?

I think there MAY have been a good many of you who were tarring and feathering Michael Brown for what you SUSPECTED were his shortcomings during the Katrina disaster and aftermath.

Without knowing the facts people were pointing their fingers at "Brownie" who might not have been deserving of the scorn heaped on him.

Anyone here willing to own up to it and say they jumped the gun?

The truth will set you free.

[osiris]

....

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Evolution. Survival of the fittest.
Why hinder advancement of the species.

You are so full of sh*t, you're not worth the time.

[Sky Captain]

Personal attack?
This person sought out a better life in Mississippi, found it no better there.
This person sough out a larger city, we answered the call to help.
Those who do not seek help and expect help do not advance.

If you stand around EXPECTING a hand out you'll be miserably disappointed.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

I was in southern MS for 3 months, from Sept 5 to Dec 3, running a free, tent-based medical clinic in the town of Waveland, MS. We were 42 miles east of NOLA.

I can expertly speak to the medical situation on the ground, as well as the social situation. The clinic I was running had 5,000 patients in 3 months. We were the only medical facilities for miles and miles.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

I was in southern MS for 3 months, from Sept 5 to Dec 3, running a free, tent-based medical clinic in the town of Waveland, MS. We were 42 miles east of NOLA.

I can expertly speak to the medical situation on the ground, as well as the social situation. The clinic I was running had 5,000 patients in 3 months. We were the only medical facilities for miles and miles.

An excerpt from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

What we say here pales in comparison to what you, Sky Captain and thousands and thousands of others have suffered, endured and accomplished down there and all across the country in response to the devastation of Katrina.

Kudos to you all!

[Sky Captain]

You know who responded and organized first?
The citizens from other areas.
Charity starts from the bottom.

[aberdeenwriter]

Back to myths being debunked, in addition to Brownie being less responsible for the problems we have someone who was MORE responsible for the resulting disaster. Gov. Blanco was heard on tape telling the President or someone that the levees were holding when in fact they'd already failed?

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

You know who responded and organized first?
The citizens from other areas.
Charity starts from the bottom.

]Yup. My friend and I from across the country were running a VERY busy relief center in Waveland, MS. Read about us at rainbowsandbelievers.com or remarelief.net

All private citizens, just friends wanting to help, did it in the vaccume of gov't.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Evolution. Survival of the fittest.
Why hinder advancement of the species.

Hahaha...wow. Social Darwinism. I thought society had done its best to erasethat particular concept from civilization by the early 1900s....



greg