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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > Think Secret: "real" video iPod coming.

Think Secret: "real" video iPod coming. (Page 2)
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Eug Wanker
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Feb 24, 2006, 09:23 AM
 
This is not a cellular PDA.
     
f1000
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Feb 24, 2006, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
This is not a cellular PDA.
Not yet, but it's coming.

I believe.
     
atlcane
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Feb 24, 2006, 09:59 AM
 
I do not think it will have a touch screen instead i think it will have a remote attached to the headphones.
     
ajprice
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Feb 24, 2006, 10:22 AM
 
Don't think its cellular, maybe wireless through wifi (Airport Express AV) or BT.

So if this is all real and the iPod PDA thing is on the right lines, what about the "Mobile Me" name they have? There's a few possibilities here - Home folder on your iPod to plug in to whichever mac you are near? Remote desktop on the iPod to your Mac?

Pulling things out of the air here but they could be

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
rsuede
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Feb 24, 2006, 12:44 PM
 
I think it will be the real deal - touchscreen, 16:9, isight, 3G, phone.... An expensive product no doubt but it's going to do away with having multiple devices.

Here's hoping anyways

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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Feb 24, 2006, 01:10 PM
 
I don't think that spy pic was real. The entire thing is nothing but a screen which would making holding it awkward. I also didn't like the frame around it, looked too much like a cheap picture frame with it's silly bevelled edge.

Even the connecter attached to it was very PC and ugly.

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Eug Wanker
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Feb 24, 2006, 06:17 PM
 
This picture looks like it's on a hardwood floor, which wouldn't make sense if the slats were of regular size. ie. It would mean this would be something like a 17" iPod.


Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
I don't think that spy pic was real. The entire thing is nothing but a screen which would making holding it awkward. I also didn't like the frame around it, looked too much like a cheap picture frame with it's silly bevelled edge.
Although I wouldn't count on it, I wouldn't completely discount it just yet. Certainly the form factor would be what I would have expected for say a 480x272 H.264 player from Apple, with touch screen.



Remember, the main reason the PSP has all that extra space on the sides is for gaming, not watching video.



Oh and the screen size of the PSP is only 4.3 inches, which means it's about 2.12" x 3.74". Add about 4 mm of bevel around the edge, and it's about 4.1" x 2.4".

Guess what? The current iPod measures... You guessed it... 4.1" x 2.4".

Furthermore, don't forget Apple's patent:




Mockups:




It doesn't seem like it would be awkward to hold, or at least not any more awkward than the current iPod. The only awkward part would be the touch screen. (I didn't love the "buttons" on the 3G iPod.) Compare the above pic to the current iPod below to assess for awkwardness in holding it. Note, the pic below was the original "fake" video iPod pic.



At least it would be a lot less awkward in design than the other mockup floating around the net from before:



Even the connecter attached to it was very PC and ugly.
The connector may be 3rd party, including possibly dual cables.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Feb 24, 2006, 07:27 PM
 
Im not saying the video iPod isn't real, I am just saying I don't think that picture is real.

And yes it is more awkward to hold, on the current iPods 70% of it is plastic so you can easily grab it without covering the screen.

I can't imagine how much the thing above would cost. I mean that big of a screen AND touchscreen. $900 iPod

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DigitalEl
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Feb 24, 2006, 11:13 PM
 
Not only expense, but practicality. The beauty of an iPod, any iPod, is portability. The ability to throw it in a pocket and go about your business. If I was carrying something that fragile and that expensive, it would dominate my waking hours protecting it. And a protective case would be less practical on that big, beautiful screen.

Then again, the practicality of keeping stuff pristine has never been a big concern when Ives designs his art pieces.
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Eug Wanker
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Feb 24, 2006, 11:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
And yes it is more awkward to hold, on the current iPods 70% of it is plastic so you can easily grab it without covering the screen.
When I grabbed iPods, it was by the sides anyway. YMMV.

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
I can't imagine how much the thing above would cost. I mean that big of a screen AND touchscreen. $900 iPod
How much did you pay for your PSP? No touch screen but still...

Originally Posted by DigitalEl
Not only expense, but practicality. The beauty of an iPod, any iPod, is portability. The ability to throw it in a pocket and go about your business.
Well, as I demonstrated above, at least the size would not be an issue. It'd be about the same size as the current iPod.

Originally Posted by DigitalEl
Then again, the practicality of keeping stuff pristine has never been a big concern when Ives designs his art pieces.
Bingo.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Feb 25, 2006, 12:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
When I grabbed iPods, it was by the sides anyway. YMMV.

How much did you pay for your PSP? No touch screen but still...
Um, Sony takes a major loss on a PSP sale. Apple makes a ton of money on an iPod sale. They break even on the Music store.

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Eug Wanker
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Feb 25, 2006, 12:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Um, Sony takes a major loss on a PSP sale. Apple makes a ton of money on an iPod sale. They break even on the Music store.
I am aware of that, but it's not as if Sony loses $500 on every unit they sell. Do you think they even lose $200 on every unit? Cuz I don't. $100 lost on every PSP would still make it only $399.

Apple could sell a 480x272 touch screen iPod for $499 and still make a fair chunk of money.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Feb 25, 2006, 02:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
I am aware of that, but it's not as if Sony loses $500 on every unit they sell. Do you think they even lose $200 on every unit? Cuz I don't. $100 lost on every PSP would still make it only $399.

Apple could sell a 480x272 touch screen iPod for $499 and still make a fair chunk of money.
Sony doesn't lose THAT much money on the PSP's because they make most of the parts in house, Apple does not.

Apples 2 gig iPod costs $90 to make and sells for $200 acording to reports.

I have a feeling that if Apple comes out with a Video ipod with a touchscreen it will do much more than just play songs and videos. Sounds more like a sneaky way to bring in Tablets or a Newton.

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f1000
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Feb 25, 2006, 05:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
I have a feeling that if Apple comes out with a Video ipod with a touchscreen it will do much more than just play songs and videos. Sounds more like a sneaky way to bring in Tablets or a Newton.
I think you both make good points. I doubt that this initial iPod video will be touted as a PDA, mainly because it's geared towards meeting the price point of portable video enthusiasts. On the other hand, now that all this computing power and hardware has been put together, it's probably trivial to add extensive PDA functionality to future iPods. People have already shown that iPods can run 3D games such as Doom, so I fail to see how an iPod video couldn't run simple apps such as Word or Excel or a slimmed down version of Safari.

It probably wouldn't cost more than $50 to tack on 3G functionality, so I see a cellular iPod coming within two years. A cellular iPod would offer powerful competition to satellite and digital radio AND be a way for Apple to hedge its bets by straddling both the download and subscription models.
     
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Feb 25, 2006, 08:00 AM
 
     
DigitalEl
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Feb 25, 2006, 08:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by tomzo22
That site is pretty convincing that the "leaked" images are fake. Then again, I'm no Photochop expert. Anyone who is wanna give an opinion?
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Eug Wanker
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Feb 25, 2006, 08:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Sony doesn't lose THAT much money on the PSP's because they make most of the parts in house, Apple does not.

Apples 2 gig iPod costs $90 to make and sells for $200 acording to reports.

I have a feeling that if Apple comes out with a Video ipod with a touchscreen it will do much more than just play songs and videos. Sounds more like a sneaky way to bring in Tablets or a Newton.
I already use my iPod as a PDA, sort of. I can't enter new data except at my computer, but my iPod mini has my data, my calendar, my address book, my notes, etc. To add more PDA type stuff to a touch screen iPod is only evolutionary, not some big paradigm change for the iPod.

Originally Posted by DigitalEl
That site is pretty convincing that the "leaked" images are fake. Then again, I'm no Photochop expert. Anyone who is wanna give an opinion?
I'm no expert either, but I should point out that this happens with every single leaked picture. The best though was with the Honda cog commercial, when all the 3D gurus were criticizing it for being such an obvious fake.
     
tomzo22
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Feb 25, 2006, 09:41 AM
 
Yeah your probably right eug, and that video is immense! Yet although i would liek the leaked picture to be real, i can't stop thinking somethings just not right. I also agree the chinese written on the lead, looks very "ameatuer"
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Feb 26, 2006, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
When I grabbed iPods, it was by the sides anyway. YMMV.
That is because of the size of the unit allows you to comfortably.

I can't even hold my nano in my palm like I would hold a larger iPod or PDA. I have to hold it by the plastic on the bottom.

Now with that image above, picture holding it in landscape mode. How the heck would you do that without covering much of the screen with the entire length of your thumb and palm?

Look at Apples Newton products. The original had a plastic area on the bottom to grip and the newton 2000 had plastic on both sides in landscape mode or else it would have been impossible to hold and touch/write on the screen at the same time. Now newton did it because it probably needed the space for the guts but you see the same thing on all well designed products today.

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f1000
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Feb 26, 2006, 02:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Now with that image above, picture holding it in landscape mode. How the heck would you do that without covering much of the screen with the entire length of your thumb and palm?
What you need is an Eye Fi.
     
Eug Wanker
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Feb 26, 2006, 03:24 PM
 
     
ajprice
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Feb 26, 2006, 05:10 PM
 
LOL, ah well it was good while it lasted.

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Feb 26, 2006, 09:01 PM
 
If Apple ever releases an iPod with a touchscreen and doens't give it PDA features I would kill them.

Can you imagine a device that plays music, movies and photoes AND has wireless so you can share things with your friends, chat and download new music all without a computer?

Apple would create a new market overnight.

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TheSpaz
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Feb 26, 2006, 11:06 PM
 
That would be very funny if someone made that whole (how to make a fake photo) and did it so well that it was fake also.

What I mean is... Imagine if the person who did the fake video didn't actually do the photo at all... and just made the fake video to trick people into thinking that the Video iPod is not coming out... but, then on Tuesday, it does and everyone's jaw will drop... THAT would be FUNNY!
     
slugslugslug  (op)
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Feb 27, 2006, 12:01 AM
 
I'm kinda hoping the Real Video iPod™ doesn't come out on Tuesday, so we can keep speculating about it here, and I'll have started a >2-page thread. That'd be cool.

But seriously, why haven't we heard anything about the miraculous new technology that's gonna keep the screen from being all smudgy? I'd like to know if Apple has some trick up their sleeve w/r/t this, or if they actually think people wash their hands.
     
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Feb 27, 2006, 04:12 AM
 
"the miraculous new technology that's gonna keep the screen from being all smudgy"?
Well, I read somewhere that the new materials used to make glasses could be an option.
Very scratch/fat fingers resistant, etc.

Et pourquoi pas?
     
f1000
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Feb 27, 2006, 06:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
No wonder all the Chinese readers were scratching their heads at the cryptic writing. "This side" indeed.
     
Eug Wanker
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Feb 27, 2006, 09:19 AM
 
Miraculous new anti-scratch technology = cheap piece of plastic.



ie. This is a non issue.
     
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Feb 27, 2006, 10:18 AM
 
I'm sick of buying stuff to protect my iPod. I probably spend more on iPod gear than I did on the actual iPod.
     
slugslugslug  (op)
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Feb 27, 2006, 11:44 AM
 
Well, I was talking about smudging, not scratching, but I guess not everyone is gonna be watching House reruns while eating really greasy pizza..

Actually, when I think about it, the other puzzle in my OP seems more relevant: loss of tactile feedback. I suppose that's less of a big deal when you're actually watching something, but when the thing is playing the role of an old-school iPod it'd kinda suck to have to turn on and look at the screen to switch songs or change volume. Hopefully an audio remote will come standard.
     
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Feb 27, 2006, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
This video is a little cryptic though. It is NOT someone showing how they made the picture above. It may very well be the person who created the picture retracing the steps they used, or it might be someone who is showing how such a photo could be easily faked (which is of course true). But you'll notice that the photo he creates is different from the original one in several places.
     
Eug Wanker
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Feb 27, 2006, 12:29 PM
 
Oldboy rocks. Oldboy would rock even more on a widescreen iPod.





Originally Posted by Icruise
This video is a little cryptic though. It is NOT someone showing how they made the picture above.
Yes it is. Or no it isn't?



     
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Feb 27, 2006, 12:35 PM
 
     
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Feb 27, 2006, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Oldboy rocks. Oldboy would rock even more on a widescreen iPod.

As cool as it looks in a pic it still doesn't give you any area to grip when holding in landscape mode.

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Eug Wanker
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Feb 27, 2006, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
As cool as it looks in a pic it still doesn't give you any area to grip when holding in landscape mode.
I don't think it would be a huge deal for most adults if it were only 4.1" wide, but if they really wanted to they could simply add a bit more bevel on one side (or two) for gripping. However, I think that could make things worse for small hands, since a 5" wide iPod (ie. the size of a CD case) would be very difficult to grasp without grabbing the bevel or whatever.

For my small hands, a 3.8" wide iPod would be perfect, and a 4.1" wide iPod would be easily manageable:

A 4.1" wide iPod could easily fit a PSP-sized 3.74" wide screen. 480/3.74= 128.3 PPI. (That screen is 4.3" diagonally.)
A 3.8" wide iPod could probably use about a 3.60" wide screen. 480/3.60= 133.3 PPI. (That screen would be 4.1" diagonally.)

The problem with a 3.8" wide ipod would be the drive size. However, Toshiba 1.8" drives are small enough at 78x54x8 mm. The 78 mm isn't a big issue, but the 54 mm might be problematic. However, Apple could just make the bevels on those sides slightly larger, and that wouldn't affect the length of the unit.

133 PPI screens are already common. That is the pixel density of 15" 1600x1200 screens. That's too high IMO for a laptop, but fine for an iPod.

BTW, 128 PPI screens also exist in laptops: 15.4" 1680x1050. Again, too high IMO for a laptop, but fine for an iPod.

Apple Cinema Display 20”: 99.05dpi (20” screen)
Apple Cinema Display 30”: 101.6dpi (29.7” screen)
Original Black and White iPods (1G-4G): 102.4 dpi (2” screen)
Apple iPod mini: 105.7 (1.67” screen)
Sony PlayStation Portable: 128dpi (4.3” screen)
iPod photo/color/4G: 141 dpi (2” screen)
iPod nano: 147 dpi (1.5” screen)
iPod 5G: 160 dpi (2.5” screen)
Creative Zen Vision: 216dpi (3.7” screen)


Oh, and that Creative Zen Vision is 640x480.

I think the bigger potential problem would be the sensitivity/ergonomics of the touch screen scroll wheel.

All this said, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if Apple actually released something like this tomorrow.
( Last edited by Eug Wanker; Feb 27, 2006 at 01:53 PM. )
     
tomzo22
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Feb 27, 2006, 03:05 PM
 
Also, there was no 7 on the sticker. Maybe it was apple who relased that video trying to cover up a future product..
     
Eug Wanker
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Feb 27, 2006, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
I don't think it would be a huge deal for most adults if it were only 4.1" wide, but if they really wanted to they could simply add a bit more bevel on one side (or two) for gripping. However, I think that could make things worse for small hands, since a 5" wide iPod (ie. the size of a CD case) would be very difficult to grasp without grabbing the bevel or whatever.

For my small hands, a 3.8" wide iPod would be perfect, and a 4.1" wide iPod would be easily manageable:

A 4.1" wide iPod could easily fit a PSP-sized 3.74" wide screen. 480/3.74= 128.3 PPI. (That screen is 4.3" diagonally.)
A 3.8" wide iPod could probably use about a 3.60" wide screen. 480/3.60= 133.3 PPI. (That screen would be 4.1" diagonally.)

The problem with a 3.8" wide ipod would be the drive size. However, Toshiba 1.8" drives are small enough at 78x54x8 mm. The 78 mm isn't a big issue, but the 54 mm might be problematic. However, Apple could just make the bevels on those sides slightly larger, and that wouldn't affect the length of the unit.
Doh! I guess I should have remembered the original TS article: True video iPod to sport 3.5-inch display, touch-screen click wheel

A 3.5" screen would measure 1.7x3.0", and if it were 480x272, it would be 160 PPI, which is the exact same PPI as the current iPod 5G's, but with a larger screen (3.5" vs. 2.5").

With that screen size, it could be designed to be big enough to hold a 1.8" drive yet still be short enough to fit nicely in your hand when in the landscape orientation. The drive itself measures only 3.1x2.1".

Apple perhaps could make the whole iPod only 3.8x2.4", although it might have to be a little thicker than the current iPod 5G, at say 0.65" (which is thinner than the 3G 30 GB iPod).

Bottom line: It could be as small as say 3.8" x 2.4" x 0.65" and still fit:

1) A 480x272 3.5" 160 PPI screen
2) An 80 GB hard drive and battery
3) Into a small hand even in the landscape orientation.

Here I am holding a box which measures 3.8" wide (by 3.2" tall):



Originally Posted by tomzo22
Also, there was no 7 on the sticker. Maybe it was apple who relased that video trying to cover up a future product..
Yeah, I read that later too, although I haven't checked it myself.
( Last edited by Eug Wanker; Feb 27, 2006 at 03:52 PM. )
     
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Feb 27, 2006, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Yes it is. Or no it isn't?



What is this meant to show?
     
Eug Wanker
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Feb 27, 2006, 04:12 PM
 
The other option I suppose is that Apple could just choose to make the 5G wider and include a standard click wheel. Here is my most excellent mockup with a 480x272 3.5" screen:



The mockup above is 3.2" wide. They could also make it 480x360 and it would still fit vertically, and it would be a little less cramped horizontally. A 3.5" 480x360 screen is 2.1x2.8" and 171 PPI.

Originally Posted by Icruise
What is this meant to show?
The dots aren't the same.
     
icruise
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Feb 27, 2006, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
The dots aren't the same.
Right, but that's the least of the differences between the two pictures. There's no "7" on the label and the scratched out section in the bottom right is different too. Not that I'm saying the original picture was genuine, either.
     
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Feb 27, 2006, 05:18 PM
 
This is too funny... just wait for tomorrow and see what happens. I hope it's real... I want iTunes to start including HIGH DEF videos. I'm sick of watching The Office in less than 320 x 240. That's just the lowest of the low res (Although the video quality itself is very good, when you make it bigger, you start to see jagged edges and such.)
     
Eug Wanker
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Feb 27, 2006, 05:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz
This is too funny... just wait for tomorrow and see what happens. I hope it's real... I want iTunes to start including HIGH DEF videos. I'm sick of watching The Office in less than 320 x 240. That's just the lowest of the low res (Although the video quality itself is very good, when you make it bigger, you start to see jagged edges and such.)
HD on iTunes is quite unlikely IMO.

1) The files would be humungous. They would take forever to download, and would cost a lot.
2) A Mac mini or something with Core Duo would be needed to play it back. Or in the very least, Core Solo with 720p (which would still have humungous files.)

I think I'm being optimistic just asking for 480x360 or 480x272.

A 480x360 3.5" screen would be 171 PPI, and would measure 2.1" x 2.8". That'd make for a very nice traditional click-wheel iPod. It'd be a little wide, but would be worth it. I'd consider buying one if it could do 1 Mbps 480x360 H.264 and had TV-out at that resolution. I'd buy one for sure if it could play back 1.5 Mbps 640x480 H.264 via the TV-out.

Also 480x360, while not ideal, is actually not that bad on a medium sized screen. Furthermore, it would not be a problem for iTunes cost-wise and bandwidth-wise. Here's hoping for 480x360 (or better) on iTunes...

It all seems like wishful thinking though.
( Last edited by Eug Wanker; Feb 27, 2006 at 05:32 PM. )
     
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Feb 27, 2006, 06:39 PM
 
I've got this widescreen iPod video tablet down as unlikely now. the 28th may be more to do with the iPod Boombox / HiFi, maybe a new shuffle, maybe a new special edition a la the U2 iPod (any big bands or artists got an album out soon? and I mean U2 big). Intel Mac mini too, but thats for another thread, not here.

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Feb 27, 2006, 11:40 PM
 
Ya, I don't think we will see it tomorrow either.

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Eug Wanker
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Feb 28, 2006, 01:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Icruise
Right, but that's the least of the differences between the two pictures. There's no "7" on the label and the scratched out section in the bottom right is different too. Not that I'm saying the original picture was genuine, either.
I watched a 640x480 H.264 version of the fake iPod video (not that crappy version on YouTube), and it is obviously the actual video of the creation of that picture.

BTW, it's an 8, not a "B", and the dots do match elsewhere in the video, as do the scribbles. I applaud the person for documenting the creation of the fake so well.
     
icruise
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Feb 28, 2006, 08:44 AM
 
Where is this version? I can't even watch the YouTube version at the moment, but it was very obvious to me that the pictures were not the same. Very possibly by the same person, but not identical pictures. And weren't you the one who posted that picture showing that the dots on the Chinese characters weren't the same?

I don't know why you're bringing up the B/8 issue since I never mentioned such a thing.
     
Eug Wanker
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Feb 28, 2006, 10:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Icruise
Where is this version? I can't even watch the YouTube version at the moment, but it was very obvious to me that the pictures were not the same. Very possibly by the same person, but not identical pictures. And weren't you the one who posted that picture showing that the dots on the Chinese characters weren't the same?
The dots look the same elsewhere in the video. As for the 7, it likely was just added later, since it's just handwritten.

P.S. Is your YouTube version not playing? Cuz it doesn't play on my Cube either. It plays fine on my iBook though. I can't figure out why there is a problem on my Cube. Kinda a moot though since the quality sucks anyway.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the URL for the QT 640x480 version. I downloaded the file at home, but can't seem to find the URL again on Google, and by the time I get home it will be moot anyways since the Apple event will have already happened. I can still post it when I get home though if you want.

I don't know why you're bringing up the B/8 issue since I never mentioned such a thing.
I'm just bringing it up because I and others thought it looked like a B. In the clearer version it's definitely an 8 though.
     
icruise
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Feb 28, 2006, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
P.S. Is your YouTube version not playing? Cuz it doesn't play on my Cube either. It plays fine on my iBook though. I can't figure out why there is a problem on my Cube. Kinda a moot though since the quality sucks anyway.
.
I saw it earlier, but the YouTube site itself was down when I wrote the message before.
     
icruise
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Feb 28, 2006, 03:05 PM
 
Well, the event is over and no new iPods. Not that I was really expecting one.
     
TETENAL
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Feb 28, 2006, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Oldboy rocks.
If you think shagging your own daughter is fine as long as you don't know about it. But when you know it it is so horrible that you're cutting off your own body-parts. Then you'd rather don't want to know about it again and continue shagging. If that all makes perfect sense to you, then Oldboy rocks. Otherwise this movie sucks.
     
 
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