[m a d r a]

i've been s-l-o-w-l-y downloading the 10,1 dev tools in segments from apple's website over a shitty modem and AOL connection [don't ask!]. whenever i'm working on my machine the downloads are fine but every time i've left it unattended i've returned to find the modem connection down and my downloads ruined.*

at first i was minded to blame AOL and it's crappy "disconnect you if you're idle" policy, but it shouldn't happen during a download and it doesn't when my machine's awake. besides which i have mail set to check my account every 15 mins so my machine is never officially 'idling'.

anyone else noticed anything like this?

[*speaking of downloads from apple.

congratulations to the absolute genius who designed the ADC site.

i'm stuck with only modem access at the moment so i'm downloading dev tools in the 10MB sections.

so i log in, download a section [or if i'm feeling adventurous two] and then click to download the next one... by which time ADC has logged me out due to inactivity. so i have to go back to the ADC entry page, log in again, navigate through 3 painfully slow loading screens to the dev tools download page and click the next section to download it.

add to this the fact that the downloads aren't resumable [each one generates a unique URL based on your login and the time[?] and [as mentioned above] the connection is likely to drop if i leave my comp for more than 20 minutes or so and you can only imagine the joy i'm having getting this download finished.

oh well, only 12 more 10MB sections to go

[mfessenden]

It's true; if I leave Mail open and the machine goes to sleep, there is always a POP error message on my screen when I wake it up.

I have a DSL connection (PPPoE) running on two macs and a PC, shared over a router. The two macs can share drives, but if one goes to sleep, the other machine gets a message saying the machine has unexpectedly closed down. I would think there would be a way to keep the connection up if one of the machines goes to sleep, it's a little annoying.

Michael

[Nyuni]

Well, if I'm not mistaken, part of the "Deep Sleep" mode of the machines is to send devices into an advanced powersaving mode, which pretty much shuts them down. It's a little hard to keep a PPP connection up when your Modem or Ethernet port is powered down. This even occurs with straight Ethernet LAN connections, put a system to sleep, and it's as if you've shut the system down.

My solution? Well, being that I'm on a LAN and don't need to manually establish a connection, it really isn't anything noticable for me, but if you want to save power while you're away from your system but don't want it to fall asleep, just set seperate sleep times in the Energy Saver control panel. Put System and Harddrive sleep to "Never" and set Display sleep to your desired time interval - the display will power down, but the system won't, keeping your connection up.

Cheers!

[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Nyuni ]

[jwblase]

10.1 has a problem with DSL and sleeping...
Whenever the computer sleeps, the connection is disconnected. Whenever a TCP needy application is left open during disconnection, it may not necessarily reconnect without a reboot.

I've asked Apple about this, they say "We'll look into it." Until then, put it in the feedback form on their OS X support webpage

Oh well, I suppose it can be chalked up to "these things happen."

JB

[GnOm]

Originally posted by Nyuni:
<STRONG>Well, if I'm not mistaken, part of the "Deep Sleep" mode of the machines is to send devices into an advanced powersaving mode, which pretty much shuts them down. It's a little hard to keep a PPP connection up when your Modem or Ethernet port is powered down. </STRONG>

this is of course true, but in 10.0.x the machine just not goes to sleep if an Internet connection is established. In 10.1 even if you have a lot of Apps running that are using the connection the computer will go to sleep after the time set in the prefs. That�s the difference, at least on my little Cube here.


bye.

[bluetooth]

when OS9 goes to sleep it also drops the connection, so it aint OSX specific...

[oranjdisc]

Not only that, but it affects Airport as well. I can use my iBook running 10.1 surfing off the cable modem attached to my G4 (through software base station) and it "loses touch" after going to sleep. I have to wake it up, turn off Airport, turn it back on, and then go. Does it every time. Quite annoying.

[m a d r a]

when OS9 goes to sleep it also drops the connection, so it aint OSX specific...

i'm fairly sure this isn't the case. unless it has changed since i last used 9 as my main OS. also, this definately wasn't the case with X,0 as i always leave my machine on and connected overnight downloading all my luvverly spam throughout the wee small hours.

i often had the connection still 'up' in the morning even tho' the comp was snoring away.

i notice under X there is an option [which i have ticked] under the energy saver control panel "wake for network administrative access". am i wrong in thinking that this preference used to be a more general "wake for network activity" [or words to that effect] in earlier versions [and under classic]?

i always thought this was a way of keeping the computer awake while downloads were in progress.

[jagga]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
<STRONG>

i notice under X there is an option [which i have ticked] under the energy saver control panel "wake for network administrative access". am i wrong in thinking that this preference used to be a more general "wake for network activity" [or words to that effect] in earlier versions [and under classic]?
</STRONG>

Is this option avialble under 10.1? I'm running that on my Rev C imac and dont see it.

[zos]

This has really been irking me about OS X.

I have a cable internet connection routed to two computers (one running 10.1 and another running 9.1). The machine sleeps even when my mail program and Fire are up and going strong. When it sleeps it knocks the connection to the machine off.

Even more annoying and possibly damaging to my hard drives is the fact that the master drive (stock IBM) in my dual 500 (which is not the drive I run X off of) constantly spins down and up in X. This is not the case when I'm in 9.2.1. I have sleep turned to never in the energy saver control panel and I've made sure not to tick the box to allow Classic to sleep when idle.

There are serious issues with all varieties of sleep in 10.1.

[m a d r a]

weird? your 10,1 energy saver panel seems to be missing an extra tab. you are using a legit version aren't you?



[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: m a d r a ]

[Elifarley]

In the Energy Saver panel, you can read:

"Put the system to sleep whenever it is inactive for";

and then

"Separate timing for hard disk sleep".

Talking about the HD, will it sleep whenever:

1) the system is inactive for a certain period of time

or

2) the HD is inactive for a certain period of time (no read/write operations)

?

And what is the definition of an inactive system ?

If there's no user input (no mouse movements, no mouse clicks, no key presses), is the system inactive?

[jagga]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
<STRONG>weird? your 10,1 energy saver panel seems to be missing an extra tab. you are using a legit version aren't you?



[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: m a d r a ]</STRONG>

I am using 5G64 I d/led from 'somewhere'. I didn't get a chance to go to any stores to get my free 10.1 update.

[SunSeeker]

Hey if you are getting multipart downloads try this in Explorer.

1. Start all the parts downloading
2. Open Download Manager
3. Double Click all but one of the downloads and click cancel in each one.
4. As the downloads finish, or next time you go online open one of the downloads from Download Manager and click Reload

This saves having to login to the website every time.
You can even drag the downloads from Download Manager to the dock or the desktop to archive the links

[theonlyfrizzo]

First, I must ask, m a d r a, were did you get your copy of 10.1? I did a fresh install of 10.1 (when I updated from 10, I checked the box to erase disk) and I don't have that panel, is it possibly a feature left over from 10.0.4? My update is the CD directly from the Apple Store. Very interesting.

Second: I just wanted to ask, unless you have a powerbook or ibook, what is the need to put a computer to sleep. I have a B&W G3 that I haven't put to sleep for 3 years, I just shut off the two monitors connected to it when I leave. I have internet services that run 24/7 (different servers) and I noticed back in 9 that sleep disrupted the internet connection, so I just stopped putting the computer to sleep. I was just wondering if it is a feature that is really needed if you are on a desktop?

[Gee4orce]

Madra - email me your snail mail address and I'll post you a CD with the dev tools on.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by theonlyfrizzo:
<STRONG>First, I must ask, m a d r a, were did you get your copy of 10.1? I did a fresh install of 10.1 (when I updated from 10, I checked the box to erase disk) and I don't have that panel, is it possibly a feature left over from 10.0.4? My update is the CD directly from the Apple Store. Very interesting.</STRONG>

Then it must be machine-dependent.
I just installed the "official" 5G64 (picked up from an Apple dealer yesterday) over a clean 10.0.0 on a wiped partition, and I have the Energy saver "Sleep" and "Options" tabs ('99 iMac DV 400). The latter includes "Wake options" (when modem detects ring/for administrative network access) and "Other options" (restart automatically after a power failure).

Odd.


As for "why sleep it at all?" - some of us have computers where they live, not just at work. My iMac has a pretty quiet 80 GB Maxtor drive and no ventilation, but it's in the bedroom, and I still have to turn it off at night. So to sleep it goes.

-chris.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SunSeeker:
<STRONG>Hey if you are getting multipart downloads try this in Explorer.

[useful info snipped]

This saves having to login to the website every time.
You can even drag the downloads from Download Manager to the dock or the desktop to archive the links </STRONG>

madra's problem is a different one:
The download gets a different URL every time, based on currently assigned log-in number. So if the downloads get cut off and the log-in to the ADC site times out, there's no way to resume.

-chris.

[m a d r a]

SunSeeker

Hey if you are getting multipart downloads try this in Explorer.

1. Start all the parts downloading
2. Open Download Manager
3. Double Click all but one of the downloads and click cancel in each one.
4. As the downloads finish, or next time you go online open one of the downloads from Download Manager and click Reload

This saves having to login to the website every time.

unfortunately that disnae work. as i said above, the FTP login to download the file is uniquely generated when you log in. so it isn't possible to restart a partial download if a connection drops, as your login will have changed in the meantime. neither does queueing a list of downloads work as by the time the first one has finished your ADC account will have been logged out meaning that the queued downloads will be refused as you are no longer logged in.

neither does relogging in again, getting the FTP login info for a download [copy link to clipboard] and pasting this into the download manager info for a partially completed download allow that download to be resumed. it will be overwritten.

neither does copying the ftp download link and using the info therein to log in via an FTP app with reloadable downloading built in work, as you are still logged out once the download fails.

as you can see i've tried every way i can think of to try and get around this problem. i just wish apple devoted half the ingenuity they've applied to preventing people from downloading from their site in a pain-free manner to improving their software. X would be a real winner then.

theonlyfrizzo

First, I must ask, m a d r a, were did you get your copy of 10.1? I did a fresh install of 10.1 (when I updated from 10, I checked the box to erase disk) and I don't have that panel, is it possibly a feature left over from 10.0.4? My update is the CD directly from the Apple Store. Very interesting.

mine was an official copy from applecentre warrington in the UK. i dunno whether there is a different version for UK/european consumption [i seem to remember apple 'doing away with' seperate english versions some while ago]... or maybe you get different options on a powerbook? that makes sense insofar as the "show battery status in menubar" item goes, but the other options would seem to apply equally to desktop or powerbook.

gee40rce- thanx! i've emailed you seperately.

[theonlyfrizzo]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<STRONG>

As for "why sleep it at all?" - some of us have computers where they live, not just at work. My iMac has a pretty quiet 80 GB Maxtor drive and no ventilation, but it's in the bedroom, and I still have to turn it off at night. So to sleep it goes.

-chris.</STRONG>

Point well taken on the iMac, I forgot that they don't even have monitors to turn off, since they are all in one. And yeah, with how noisy those Maxtor drives are (I have two internal maxtors and an external maxtor, sounds like one of those ghost buster packs when I start up!! ) I can understand putting it to sleep. Thanks for the insight!!

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: theonlyfrizzo ]

[SunSeeker]

Doh!

[Smircle]

Originally posted by m a d r a:

[*speaking of downloads from apple.

congratulations to the absolute genius who designed the ADC site.

so i log in, download a section [or if i'm feeling adventurous two] and then click to download the next one...

Absolute bozos, it freaks me out every time I have to download things from there. Trying to get 10.1 (ca. 550MB), I produced a download total of 1.2GB because of dropped connections.

You can lessen your pain somewhat. Use Opera. Then look into the download window, you'll see that the downloads are ftp and you can read the login/password used. Type them into Interarchie and you can access the ADC server via this tool. It does the downloads noticably faster than IE and offers better resume. This way you can download multi-segments without multi-login.

Oh yes, another thing: if you connect from Europe, do _not_ fall into the trap by trying to download from the european server, it is slow as molasses (Apple, your support for Europe is completely shitty). Use the US one.

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Smircle ]

[superlarry]

my cube doesn't go into deep sleep when it's connected to the internet, which is a plus.
but i'd like to know why it would disconnect when the hard drive spins down.. my B&W tower with 8.6-9.2.1 would just spin the hard drive up if it needed it (even in deep sleep) in order to maintain the connection. i can set nothing to sleep save my hard drive, and get dropped, whereas i am fine if the monitor sleeps and the hard drive spins on incessantly. hmm.