[K++]

Originally posted by klanda:
This is off-topic, so I'll be brief. K++ you seem to be confusing the idea of "Labels" vs. the way labeled files are visually identified on screen.
Yes, maybe a little badge or more highly noticeable change in the icon would be useful to highlight a labeled file. However, to say that you can use modification times and name changes to do what I said I used labels for is nonsense. First, modification time is irrelevant to the nature of the change made to the file, and the changes could be made at a whole bunch of different times (that I don't remember) or over a long period, and not in any particular order [Hmmmm... Note to self, maybe we need the ability to assign more that one label! Now that's metadata.] Second, constantly changing the names of the same file is not always good practice. More than one person may need to access the file, and shouldn't have to keep up with constantly changing names (for that matter, neither should I alone!). Further, stable filenames matter for dynamically linked contents (like website files, subfiles to a larger project, etc.)

In short, I don't mind if someone can come up with a more visually useful way of identifying labeled files, but the metadata labeling concept goes way beyond just the pretty picture, and should be enhanced, not rejected.

Rant over.

Ken

Short response: name changes mean nothign in Mac OS X. Open a movie in quicktime then rename it as its playing. Watch the title change. Move the file to another location, look at teh Get info window in Quicktime again it changed. Why is that, HFS+ uses file IDS primarily and one of the metadata properties it holds is file path. So it asks HFS where the file is if it needs to know. So you change a file's name and location ad nauseum and no one will have a problem. There are exceptions of course, but most apps should not have a problem with this. Only in the webserver scenario is name changing a problem.

[K++]

Originally posted by klanda:
This is off-topic, so I'll be brief. K++ you seem to be confusing the idea of "Labels" vs. the way labeled files are visually identified on screen.
Yes, maybe a little badge or more highly noticeable change in the icon would be useful to highlight a labeled file. However, to say that you can use modification times and name changes to do what I said I used labels for is nonsense. First, modification time is irrelevant to the nature of the change made to the file, and the changes could be made at a whole bunch of different times (that I don't remember) or over a long period, and not in any particular order [Hmmmm... Note to self, maybe we need the ability to assign more that one label! Now that's metadata.] Second, constantly changing the names of the same file is not always good practice. More than one person may need to access the file, and shouldn't have to keep up with constantly changing names (for that matter, neither should I alone!). Further, stable filenames matter for dynamically linked contents (like website files, subfiles to a larger project, etc.)

In short, I don't mind if someone can come up with a more visually useful way of identifying labeled files, but the metadata labeling concept goes way beyond just the pretty picture, and should be enhanced, not rejected.

Rant over.

Ken

I should have reference Nautilus when I mentioned badges. More than one badge can be applied to file a because it is a small icon that is added to the icon. So Badges for the fact that several can be attached already surpass the useability of themes.

[klanda]

Originally posted by K++:
Short response: name changes mean nothign in Mac OS X. Open a movie in quicktime then rename it as its playing. Watch the title change. Move the file to another location, look at teh Get info window in Quicktime again it changed. Why is that, HFS+ uses file IDS primarily and one of the metadata properties it holds is file path. So it asks HFS where the file is if it needs to know. So you change a file's name and location ad nauseum and no one will have a problem. There are exceptions of course, but most apps should not have a problem with this. Only in the webserver scenario is name changing a problem.

Even shorter response to the response. People need to know the correct filename, not just the system. It's nuts to suggest constantly changing the name of a file (instead of using labels), when naming conventions mean something to people (individuals and groups) who may have a standardized workflow.

K

[K++]

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Gee, SOMEONE got up cranky...

The sidebar does not take away the ability to put whatever you feel like on the toolbar. Additionally, it creates a "virtual root" to the window, so if someone selects their home folder using the places bar, they can't accidentally navigate out of it - very clean, especially for newer users who will only be confused by "System", "Library", etc.

Labels (if you'd bothered to look) do not tint the icon anymore. They are of limited usefulness since more than one cannot be applied, but so are badges. What if I want three labels? Neither approach works.

DiskWarrior can fix huge amounts of problems that Disk Utility and fsck cannot, as I can attest to based on a hard disk crash last month. DiskWarrior is far and away the most capable program out there. Also, journaling will protect you against a power failure, for instance, not against a bug in the file system code.

As for your disk being full, please ask MicroMat (Techtool) or Alsoft (DiskWarrior) and they will both tell you it's very dangerous to fill up the disk beyond 90% of capacity. Essentially the directory starts to have problems maintaining itself - I don't write such utilities so I don't have the exact details.

Expose, as elegant as it is, it meant only for quick window management "find this now", not to hide away a window long term, which minimize is good at.

Yes, it does. I am running 7b28 and I cannot put anything into the toolbar that isn't in its customize menu, so there.

I already mentioned that several badges can be applied since being a small icon, several can be added in different corners of the file's icon.

YES! When your hard disk crashes, but using it after every reboot is not the way to use it. Its not meant to be constantly going over your HD to fix what ISN'T BROKEN.

You didn't read my post nor the one I was responding to did you? I was talking about the uselessness of windowshade not minimize. minimize serves a clear purpose. Every facet of Windowshade is taken care of in X. "Peek" behind a window, just use Expose. Minimizing, well minimize seems to work well for that. I don;t have th epicture but there is one with over 12 windows windowshaded. Once too many things are window shaded you cannot tell application windows from Finder Windows from Document Windows. Basically making the WindowShade ability useless.
P.S. Before you bring up the proxy icon in X, that is a X-specific thing and even with that, not ALL applications use them.

[movabi]

1) better, faster finder... one that doesn't hose up trying just to move large amounts of files from one directory to another on the same drive.

2) even though i use unsanity's windowshade... system support of this feature would be nice. And, no, expose does not replace this feature. To be quite honest, expose is a let down to me for one reason... I seldom use it. I thought I would but i find it kind of inconvenient. I usually have the windows i'm using open for a reason and if i need realestate usually all i need to do is windowshade.

3) why, oh why, can't i customize the apple menu? what commandment does this break having this feature available?

4) tabbed finder windos like os9... also not the same as any other "new feature"

5) springloaded folders in the dock... springloaded feature is in the new finder, why not the dock? Also why can't the dock be more customizable? Why can't you anchor the stupid thing where you want it, like dragthing (also another program i use)

6) why should I have to resort to shareware apps and spending more money to do something the system software could handle pretty easy?

7) why is it that everything old has to automatically be judged as worthless? So OS9 won't go down in history as being the best OS, but why does that make it horrible? I used apple products for a reason even when it wasn't an OSX world. Apple and all those that knock OS9 and previous versions owe it to people who used it and believed in apple products before it was cool. I'd still rather use os9 than windows... anyday.

8) there is a great feature in unsanity's fruitmenu... its part of its contexual menu that allows you to gather selected items into a new folder. AWESOME. Its a feature i use all the time. Not very fast, but if built into the OS, could conceivably be faster.

[MindFad]

PLEASE! IT'S ALL I WANT!

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by MindFad:
PLEASE! IT'S ALL I WANT!

<<snip>>

Well, and the Finder blows hard.

[kulverse]

This is actually something that WAS in Jaguar, but no longer exists in Panther...

Panther can not send digital signatures with its authentication to SMB shares. This causes a password/login incorrect error when attempting to mount shares. So, now less security is the "in thing" now I guess.

[-Q-]

To be more specific than 'Finder Blows,' I'd really like to see the desktop actually update when I drop a file there. Sometimes even clicking on the desktop doesn't produce the copied files. Very frustrating when you know you've copied something but it doesn't show up. This seems to happen primarily with small files but it's something that needs to be remedied.

[chris v]

Originally posted by K++:
Yes, it does. I am running 7b28 and I cannot put anything into the toolbar that isn't in its customize menu, so there.

Be patient, young grasshopper. Drag a folder/app/whatever to the Finder toolbar, and wait a sec or two. It will let you put it down, just not right away. (I suppose the delay was designd to keep people from accidentally filling their toolbar up with whatever they dragged across it)

Only thing I can't figure out how to get back in the toolbar is "Computer."

CV

[sanity assassin]

Originally posted by chris v:


Only thing I can't figure out how to get back in the toolbar is "Computer."

CV

Try this, go to your computer (cmd+shift+c) then from the titlebar just drag the computer icon to your toolbar, should work the same way as draggin icons.

[chris v]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
Try this, go to your computer (cmd+shift+c) then from the titlebar just drag the computer icon to your toolbar, should work the same way as draggin icons.

"Should" and "do" are two different things, I guess. If I try to drag the computer icon from the title bar, it just moves the window around, as if I'd grabbed the title bar anywhere else. Can't drag it out of the sidebar, either, as that just "poofs" it.

Edit!! AHA! option+command+dragging the Computer icon from the title bar to the toolbar WORKS! Cool!

CV

[sanity assassin]

Originally posted by chris v:
"Should" and "do" are two different things, I guess. If I try to drag the computer icon from the title bar, it just moves the window around, as if I'd grabbed the title bar anywhere else. Can't drag it out of the sidebar, either, as that just "poofs" it.

Edit!! AHA! option+command+dragging the Computer icon from the title bar to the toolbar WORKS! Cool!

CV

yay, good to hear. I forgot to say that before dragging the icon from the titlebar, you need to press on it for a second or so then drag.

[:XI:]

Originally posted by chris v:
"Should" and "do" are two different things, I guess. If I try to drag the computer icon from the title bar, it just moves the window around, as if I'd grabbed the title bar anywhere else. Can't drag it out of the sidebar, either, as that just "poofs" it.

Edit!! AHA! option+command+dragging the Computer icon from the title bar to the toolbar WORKS! Cool!

CV

option-drag

[chris v]

Originally posted by :XI::
option-drag

Right -- I found the first key combo that would work, and went with it.

What if-- call me crazy-- Apple were to document all this stuff in a... what do you call it... manual?






Nah. It'd never work.

CV