[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If they stopped shipping netbooks with Windows 7 Starter and 1 GB RAM, maybe they'd see an uptick in netbook sales. But maybe they're scared that netbooks would then start eating away at "real" laptop sales.

I'm in the grey zone. I absolutely refused to get a 10.1" netbook because the keyboard is too small, and I absolutely refused to get any machine with Windows 7 Starter or 1 GB RAM. Single-core Atom doesn't impress either. OTOH, the 11.6" MacBook Air netbook is too expensive, and 13.3" laptops are too big. (I already have a 13.3" MacBook Pro.) So, I got that 11.6" Win 7 Home Premium netbook, with real CPU and 2 GB RAM.

The iPad is in that no-mans land, IMO. It's a well designed device no doubt, but at the same time it's got the worst of both worlds. It's as big as a netbook but without the netbook's versatility, and it's powered worse than (or at best equal to) an iPhone 4, with the same limitations.

BTW, now that I have the netbook, I'm almost considering converting all my Keynote presentations to PowerPoint and selling the MacBook Pro. However, I'm holding out hope that the 11.6" MacBook Air will get an update in 2011 that will impress me more, both in terms of specs and price. The one thing I hate the most on the netbook actually is the lack of a backlit keyboard. On an tablet this is not an issue obviously.

Wow, converting to PP to install on a NetBook to sell a MBP. I honestly do not think I've ever read such a scenario. Breaking new ground, or sinking in mud?

Originally Posted by freudling 

"Last week I was in the Apple store in Lenox Mall Atlanta, GA. There were about 100 customers in the store. About 20 around the new Air notebook table (you had to wait to look at one); there were 5-10 people near the iPhone & iTouch tables; a bunch of users in the back training area and a few playing with desktops....the iPad table remained empty during my 10-minute visit.

This is likely because the MB Air is new. Wait a few months and then check again. I was in an Apple store last night - lots checking out the MBAir, the iPad table was relatively empty, but I saw lots of people buying iPads.

[Cold Warrior]

AppleInsider | HTML5 on Android Samsung Galaxy Tab "disappointing" vs Apple iPad

Some sharp jabs for the Tab, reinforcing the problems of a 7" screen and even how Samsung and/or Android implement Android on a pad.

[imitchellg5]

Those are all Android issues, doesn't matter what hardware you're on.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

Wow, converting to PP to install on a NetBook to sell a MBP. I honestly do not think I've ever read such a scenario. Breaking new ground, or sinking in mud?

No, working in the real world. If I present at a conference, it always has a pre-configured laptop there, with PowerPoint installed.

Using Keynote is a pain. I don't mind carrying the laptop around, but it's a pain having to swap out the laptop every time so I can present my Keynote presentation. In fact, even on Mac OS X, I now make my new presentations in PowerPoint most of the time for this reason.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

AppleInsider | HTML5 on Android Samsung Galaxy Tab "disappointing" vs Apple iPad

I like the conclusion:

"We’re still waiting for the first awesome Android tablet," the report observed.

-t

[macintologist]

I played with a Tab in the store this weekend. I pinched to zoom in on Google Maps and it zoomed in.
I pinched out to zoom out, and it zoomed in. What a POS.

[Cold Warrior]

I imagine the Tab's issues (if, admittedly, they are Android-derived) could be fixed with an Android update to a tablet-optimized version: improved Flash, GPU off-loading, anti-aliasing fixes, etc.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

I played with a Tab in the store this weekend. I pinched to zoom in on Google Maps and it zoomed in.
I pinched out to zoom out, and it zoomed in. What a POS.

Yeah, no other multi-touch device has ever had any issue at all with touch.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

I imagine the Tab's issues (if, admittedly, they are Android-derived) could be fixed with an Android update to a tablet-optimized version: improved Flash, GPU off-loading, anti-aliasing fixes, etc.

Dual-core should prove interesting.

In fact, I don't think I'd buy any Flash-capable tablet until it was dual-core. I wonder what Flash 10.2 will do though. I wasn't overly impressed with Flash 10.2 betas on Win 7.

[Spheric Harlot]

So, um, the Galaxy probably won't run a tablet-enabled OS, and everybody who bought one is thus out of the loop.

Android Honeycomb may require dual-core, strand Galaxy Tab | Electronista

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

So, um, the Galaxy probably won't run a tablet-enabled OS, and everybody who bought one is thus out of the loop.

Android Honeycomb may require dual-core, strand Galaxy Tab | Electronista

This has been whispered for a while, but it isn't stopping people from rooting their Andriod tablets and putting 3.0 on anyway. The betas seem to work fine on current hardware, from what I've seen.

[turtle777]

LOL, I'm glad I'm sticking with Apple / iOS.

-t

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

I imagine the Tab's issues (if, admittedly, they are Android-derived) could be fixed with an Android update to a tablet-optimized version: improved Flash, GPU off-loading, anti-aliasing fixes, etc.

Easily scale up apps with Spare Parts app... Skype on iPad tiny... no way to scale up without pixelation.

Lots of Tab optimized apps on Android marketplace now... dual core... not a knock on Tab. Android great on Tab. Tech world evolves fast. You forgot to mention how poorly iOS 4 runs on iPhone 3G: not enough RAM. Internet flooded with people trying to downgrade. Not many features supported. 3GS slow too.

Anyone ever owned a Tab? I highly doubt it...

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

So, um, the Galaxy probably won't run a tablet-enabled OS, and everybody who bought one is thus out of the loop.

Android Honeycomb may require dual-core, strand Galaxy Tab | Electronista

We're sure out of the loop. My Galaxy Tab now no longer works. Racing HD5 just shut down. The growing Tab-optimized apps just imploded. Screen is frozen. All those cool widgets, multi-tasking, video calling... just stopped working.

Technology evolves, get over it.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

I imagine the Tab's issues (if, admittedly, they are Android-derived) could be fixed with an Android update to a tablet-optimized version: improved Flash, GPU off-loading, anti-aliasing fixes, etc.

You having problems with your Tab? You may want to take it in to have it looked at....

Oh, that's right, you don't actually own one.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We're sure out of the loop. My Galaxy Tab now no longer works.

Well, if you spend that much for a device, you want to be able to update the OS. I think that's a very relevant concern.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Well, if you spend that much for a device, you want to be able to update the OS. I think that's a very relevant concern.

Why do I/we need to update our Tabs? What, exactly, is wrong with them? As I'm staring at my iPhone 3G/3GS that work just fine with their stock software, but slow as hell with iOS 4.x.

Right, you don't know the answer, because you don't own a Tab. But I have the answer. I'm pretty sure most Tab owners don't care too much about Honeycomb, if even half of them know what the hell Honeycomb is. And what is Honeycomb? I've seen it in action. There are improvements under the hood, but functionally, they look and function very much the same.

So we're supposed to wait to buy a computer on the pretense of some future software from a software company? In that case, I'll wait to buy an iPad, again, to ensure it will be able to properly run iOS 5.x. Because, you know, the iPad only has 256 MB RAM... I'm reading Engadget saying it will go to 512 or 1 GB RAM (Tab) to speed it up under a multi-tasking system. But wait, there's iOS 6! I better hold off for the quad-core iPad 3...

You just take things in the media and run with them. And does Honeycomb mean every app in the app marketplace is going to be just for the Tab? No.

Quite frankly, I'm glad... if Google does put a dual-core processor requirement on... because it shows they're committed to standards and performance. Not like Apple, where iPhone 3G owners learned the hard way by installing iOS 4.x on their devices, only to find, they were so slow as to be virtually unusable. And the 3GS took a hit, too.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Why do I/we need to update our Tabs?

Newer versions bring more features, improvements in browser performance, some apps will only run on newer versions of the OS, etc. I can think of quite a few other reasons why I want updates.

Originally Posted by freudling 

What, exactly, is wrong with them? As I'm staring at my iPhone 3G/3GS that work just fine with their stock software, but slow as hell with iOS 4.x.

I'm very happy I could update my iPod touch to the latest version of iOS and that I'll be able to do so in the foreseeable future (~2 years or so).

Originally Posted by freudling 

Right, you don't know the answer, because you don't own a Tab.

I also don't own an iPad. That doesn't stop me from forming opinions on the device. Not being able to update the software on a 600 € device is a deal breaker for me. If I were in the market for an Android-based smartphone, for instance, I'd get the Nexus S, because I don't want to be dependent on the manufacturer to allow me to update to a newer version of Android. (Right now, I own a Nokia dumb phone.)

Originally Posted by freudling 

But I have the answer. I'm pretty sure most Tab owners don't care too much about Honeycomb, if even half of them know what the hell Honeycomb is.

I think that's a pretty bold statement with no backup whatsoever. Even if users don't know that the first version of Android specifically made for tablets is called Honeycomb, if you ask the average user `Would you like to be able to update your software and the operating system on your Galaxy Tab?' I reckon most of them would say yes.

Originally Posted by freudling 

So we're supposed to wait to buy a computer on the pretense of some future software from a software company? In that case, I'll wait to buy an iPad, again, to ensure it will be able to properly run iOS 5.x.

It's not a pretense, it's an expectation I have: tablets and smart phones are computers nowadays in that you can add functionality by updating software and adding software to it. I don't buy it with the features of the next OS version in mind, but if it is to be released, I want to have access to those features.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You forgot to mention how poorly iOS 4 runs on iPhone 3G: not enough RAM.

Right, awesome argument.

How does Android 2.2 fare on 2.5 year old smartphones with touchscreen from RIM, Motorola, HTC etc ?

It doesn't. Lack of hardware, or it doesn't run.

-t

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by freudling 

So we're supposed to wait to buy a computer on the pretense of some future software from a software company? In that case, I'll wait to buy an iPad, again, to ensure it will be able to properly run iOS 5.x. Because, you know, the iPad only has 256 MB RAM... I'm reading Engadget saying it will go to 512 or 1 GB RAM (Tab) to speed it up under a multi-tasking system. But wait, there's iOS 6! I better hold off for the quad-core iPad 3...

Nope, no one's saying that at all, it's just a straw man on your part.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The growing Tab-optimized apps just imploded.

This much, actually, is very probably true - if I were a developer, I'd certainly not spend a lot of effort on optimizing for a technological dead-end.

This isn't just a matter of the Tab not being updateable. While that is crucially important in the age of malware and security issues, it's not the point.

Google themselves have already gone on record stating that they don't recommend the current OS for tablets. The Galaxy Tab will probably be unable to run the first OS version actually built to take advantage of its potential.

The sense I got when first holding the original iPhone wasn't what it did, but its potential. THAT is what I bought into, and I haven't been disappointed.

The Galaxy Tab-optimized market is dead the second it's officially announced that it won't run the tablet Android OS. And while the geek user makes informed decisions, the actual mass market is people who, once they realized they just blew $700 on a device without a future, will simply decide not to get burned again.

[olePigeon]

Edit: Nevermind, was already posted by another member.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You having problems with your Tab? You may want to take it in to have it looked at....

Samsung: It's a software problem.
Google: It's a hardware problem.

Apple: We'll fix it.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Right, awesome argument.

How does Android 2.2 fare on 2.5 year old smartphones with touchscreen from RIM, Motorola, HTC etc ?

It doesn't. Lack of hardware, or it doesn't run.

-t

Right, awesome argument.

2.5 years ago Android wasn't even on the market, and it's not on any device from RIM.

2.2 does run very well on the original Droid, and fairly well on the G1. Certainly just as well or better than iOS 4 on the 3G, and it is full-featured, unlike the cuts that the 3G receives.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Apple: We'll fix it.

With a rubber case.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

With a rubber case.

Meh, it works.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

And what is Honeycomb? I've seen it in action. There are improvements under the hood, but functionally, they look and function very much the same.

What? Honeycomb is 100% fundamentally different. Did you see Andy Rubin at D: Dive Into Mobile? He pulled out a Motorola tablet running a very early build of Honeycomb and it's different than any tablet UI I've seen so far. It had windowed apps, appears to have some sort of task bar, and folders as a computer would.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

With a rubber case.

its better than the rubber glove.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Right, awesome argument.

2.5 years ago Android wasn't even on the market, and it's not on any device from RIM.

2.2 does run very well on the original Droid, and fairly well on the G1. Certainly just as well or better than iOS 4 on the 3G, and it is full-featured, unlike the cuts that the 3G receives.

Uhm, I'm not sure if you agreed with moe or not.

The Droid was released October 17, 2009. No wonder the latest iteration of Android runs well on it.
The iPhone 3G is twice as old.

iOS 4 runs fairly well on the iPhone 3GS, which is older than the Droid.

-t

[freudling]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Right, awesome argument.

How does Android 2.2 fare on 2.5 year old smartphones with touchscreen from RIM, Motorola, HTC etc ?

It doesn't. Lack of hardware, or it doesn't run.

-t

iOS 4 was released in June, 2010. The iPhone 3G was just over 2 years old when it launched, the iPhone 3GS 1 year. Both these devices took performance hits, the 3G worse. The 3GS showed sluggishness, disappointingly. Keyboard choppiness, crashes...

Honeycomb is just a piece of future software, just like iOS 4 was when it was beta, and just like iOS 5 is. The Tab is great, and because there's some *rumour* that it won't run Honeycomb doesn't mean a consumer shouldn't buy it.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

This much, actually, is very probably true - if I were a developer, I'd certainly not spend a lot of effort on optimizing for a technological dead-end.

This isn't just a matter of the Tab not being updateable. While that is crucially important in the age of malware and security issues, it's not the point.

Google themselves have already gone on record stating that they don't recommend the current OS for tablets. The Galaxy Tab will probably be unable to run the first OS version actually built to take advantage of its potential.

The sense I got when first holding the original iPhone wasn't what it did, but its potential. THAT is what I bought into, and I haven't been disappointed.

The Galaxy Tab-optimized market is dead the second it's officially announced that it won't run the tablet Android OS. And while the geek user makes informed decisions, the actual mass market is people who, once they realized they just blew $700 on a device without a future, will simply decide not to get burned again.

Hi, I don't read anything in a thread. I just repeat, restart...

The Tab has sold over 1 million units. Nobody cares about your arguing.

And no future? LOL. Right. I thought of the great potential of the iPhone 2G too. It's been a brick that can't run iOS 4 and slow as Edge.

Google said Android 2.x is not the best for a tablet. Google said! Google said!

The funny thing is, the iPad runs the exact same OS as the iPhone. Google is trying to make Android the ultimate in performance on a tablet because they know tablets can house better hardware than a smartphone. There's no difference between running Android 2.x on a tablet, and iOS 4 on a tablet. None. Except with Android, you'll get real multi-tasking and multi-widget screens.

The Android development team has stated that they are committed to focussing on a core set of hardware, so the software is more tightly conjoined. If you're going to say Android 2.x is not best for a tablet, then iOS 4 is not the best for the iPad. Apple should further differentiate the two systems. But we've already talked about that. It's why the iPad is nicknamed a giant iPod Touch™.

[Spheric Harlot]

The 3GS runs iOS 4 fine (the original release did odd hangs occasionally, agreed - under 4.2.1, I have no real issues).

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

The Tab is great, and because there's some *rumour* that it won't run Honeycomb doesn't mean a consumer shouldn't buy it.

That's where you're wrong.

Sure, a consumer won't likely care about Gingerbread. But they will when they try to download the latest version of Angry Birds or some other game and it won't install because it requires 3.0. Or they'll be angry when Samsung comes out with a dual-core Tegra 2 Galaxy Tab for the same price as what they have and their techie friend tells them it's so much better.

The fact of the matter is that the Galaxy Tab is a dead end with 2.2 and could be a dead end if it doesn't support 3.0. Samsung should know better, but instead OEMs are focused on just pushing as many products out on the market as possible with little regard to quality or longevity. I'm all for having choice, but when Apple is the only company with a history of updating products (look at the Galaxy S phones which are still on 2.1 and Samsung is just now, after 2.3 is out, announcing updates to 2.2), it's hard to recommend an Android tablet to anyone right now.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Uhm, I'm not sure if you agreed with moe or not.

The Droid was released October 17, 2009. No wonder the latest iteration of Android runs well on it.
The iPhone 3G is twice as old.

iOS 4 runs fairly well on the iPhone 3GS, which is older than the Droid.

-t

I'm saying that Froyo runs fine on the oldest Android hardware on the market today and is full featured, unlike iOS on the iPhone 3G.

The original Droid is arguably the first consumer-level (IE: not target towards devs like the G1 or Nexus One) Android device, hence my comparison.

[exca1ibur]

I have a 3GS running iOS 4 and it is not sluggish by any means for me. Never had a crash, nor choppiness. From my experience I've had none of those issues you are having there.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Samsung: It's a software problem.
Google: It's a hardware problem.

Apple: We'll fix it.

How's your Tab running these days?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

i have a 3gs running ios 4 and it is not sluggish by any means for me. Never had a crash, nor choppiness. From my experience i've had none of those issues you are having there.

bs.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by freudling 

bs.

Data conflicts with what I want to believe. Ergo, data must be wrong.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

That's where you're wrong.

Sure, a consumer won't likely care about Gingerbread. But they will when they try to download the latest version of Angry Birds or some other game and it won't install because it requires 3.0. Or they'll be angry when Samsung comes out with a dual-core Tegra 2 Galaxy Tab for the same price as what they have and their techie friend tells them it's so much better.

The fact of the matter is that the Galaxy Tab is a dead end with 2.2 and could be a dead end if it doesn't support 3.0. Samsung should know better, but instead OEMs are focused on just pushing as many products out on the market as possible with little regard to quality or longevity. I'm all for having choice, but when Apple is the only company with a history of updating products (look at the Galaxy S phones which are still on 2.1 and Samsung is just now, after 2.3 is out, announcing updates to 2.2), it's hard to recommend an Android tablet to anyone right now.

LOL. You mean technology moves forward? Oooooh, aaaaaah. It sure is a dead end with over a million sold so far. And the 7" screen sure is a dead end too. It's over. Leave. Take care. It's all done. Go home everyone.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Data conflicts with what I want to believe. Ergo, data must be wrong.

Or that I have development experience, and we've tested the hardware objectively.

And data? Nice try, Laminar. "Some guy on an Internet forum = data to generalize from".

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Or that I have development experience, and we've tested the hardware objectively.

And data? Nice try, Laminar. "Some guy on an Internet forum ≠ data to generalize from".

The majority of the few people who drive use the Galaxy might challenge you on that.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Or that I have development experience, and we've tested the hardware objectively.

And data? Nice try, Laminar. "Some guy on an Internet forum = data to generalize from".

But this is PERSONAL.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

LOL. You mean technology moves forward? Oooooh, aaaaaah. It sure is a dead end with over a million sold so far. And the 7" screen sure is a dead end too. It's over. Leave. Take care. It's all done. Go home everyone.

Numbers alone are not what make a device successful, and if you've bothered to pay attention to this thread that you've created, you know I like the 7" form factor.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Data conflicts with what I want to believe. Ergo, data must be wrong.

I never had issues with iOS 4 on my third gen iPod touch, are you sure you're not confusing the 3GS with the 3G? The 3G is the one that cannot run full-fledged iOS 4 and has the same processor as the 2G iPhone and 2G iPod touch.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by freudling 

bs.

Call it what you will like I'm not the one basing my data with rumors and guessing. I HAVE the product in my hand and have been using it for over a year.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Or that I have development experience

Why didn't you say that right away.

We would have never doubted you if we had known that you had "development experience".



-t

[freudling]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Why didn't you say that right away.

We would have never doubted you if we had known that you had "development experience".



-t

This coming from someone who thinks Android runs on RIM devices. LOL.

[Spheric Harlot]

Tough talk from a developer who thinks Honeycomb is an incremental update that will be largely unnoticeable to the user…

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by freudling 

This coming from someone who thinks Android runs on RIM devices. LOL.

Oh no, I got smacked down by teh programmer.

-t