[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

Now before everyone screams to move this to the political lounge, I'd like to state my reasons for posting it here.

1. The PL lounge sucks.
2. This is NOT political.

The documentary was very well done, 4 hours in total, with minimal commercials. To me, it seemed very unbiased, as it didn't really take sides on any issues. It basically told how Osama became who he was, his network of lunatics, and how they planned the attack, how it went, and it covered the aftermath of the event.

I was annoyed at a few things... the FAA director or somethign said they couldn't find the plane because it was flying under radar. That's ********. You have to be under 1000ft to be under radar. Just because he turned of the transponder in the plane it made it more confusing, but that doesn't make the plane disappear from radar. Also... I know this is somewhat morbid, but they showed people jumping off the building and falling...but never hitting the ground.

One of the most ... disturbing things I saw about the entire ordeal was the images of people falling and hitting cars or buildings or pavement. It's just so.. awful. I think that by editing that out, it almost seemed not as horrific as it really was. The sound was awful too, which they commented on, but did not play. I understand that they ommited these portions out of respect for the victims, but I also think it's good to remember how horrible that day was, and not to candy coat what happened.

Anyway, it was a very well done piece. to Natl Geographic.

[sek929]

Was this on GBH?

Will it be on again soon?

Nat'l Geographic has always been my favorite show to watch on televison, either that or Nova.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

[QUOTE=LilIt basically told how Osama became who he was, his network of lunatics, and how they planned the attack, how it went, and it covered the aftermath of the event.[/QUOTE]

That sounds "unbiased" to you?

[Bandit240]

He said the show was unbiased, nothing about him being unbiased. And yes i watched most of it, pretty good all together.

[Hash]

I doubt they're lunatics. They seem to be quite determined people

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

Originally Posted by Hash

I doubt they're lunatics. They seem to be quite determined people

Anyone who wants to fly a plane into a building full of civilians because they are different than you is a total lunatic. Why would it be impossible to be a determined lunatic?

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

Originally Posted by sek929

Was this on GBH?

Will it be on again soon?

Nat'l Geographic has always been my favorite show to watch on televison, either that or Nova.

It was on the national geographic channel. Natl Geo. has their own channel now, which is pretty awesome. Between that, history, discovery, animal planet, and public access, having cable is pretty awesome.

As for it playing again, not for a while. Originally they aired the 2 hour part 1 on sunday, and the 2 hour part 2 on monday. Nice breakup, but from now on I think they're just going to play the whole thing all at once. It looks like the next scheduled listing is thursday, september 8th. 7-11pm. The most chilling thing was hte interview with osama bin laden done a while ago while he was still in afganistan.

"We could be bombed right now (explosions going on in background) but it would not matter. We love death. America loves life. That is the primary difference between us".

- Osama Bin Laden

[SVass]

[QUOTE=LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]
I was annoyed at a few things... the FAA director or something said they couldn't find the plane because it was flying under radar. That's ********. You have to be under 1000ft to be under radar. Just because he turned of the transponder in the plane it made it more confusing, but that doesn't make the plane disappear from radar. /QUOTE]
I saw the first part! In answer to your question, the plane disappears from FAA radar because the display is driven by software. The software has rules for display and it can reject planes below a preset altitude and those without transponders. I know that it rejects planes above a fairly high altitude. I do not believe that the individual operator has control over the settings. (The original computers were installed long ago and a contract to replace them had huge overruns. I don't know how it worked out; but, the Apple II had far more capability than the original computers.) sam

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

Thanks Sam. I was wondering about that. It certainly wasn't below radar though, that's for sure. You'd think they'd have a seperate station with an adjustable altitude or something.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

1. The PL lounge sucks.

Banninated again ?

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

2. This is NOT political.

Par ordre du mufti ?

-t

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

I've never been banned from the PL lounge because I don't go there.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

I've never been banned from the PL lounge because I don't go there.

Well then, rookie.

-t

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

Anyone who wants to fly a plane into a building full of civilians because they are different than you is a total lunatic. Why would it be impossible to be a determined lunatic?

Honestly I am sure they would be able to point out equally nutty things the US has done to their country before 9/11. I am by no means justifying what they did though.

Even if they are a bit nuts you have to admit they are smart as hell.

They got the idea that jets full of fuel can be more effective than bombs. They got US pilots to train them how to fly planes but not take off and land (that should have red-flagged someone). They hit politically and financial important targets. Got the US economy to drop, the US dollar dropped, gas prices have soared, 300 billion has been spent on the war, the US's image is tarnished, privacy is no more, and they still can't find OBL with all the fancy and expensive equipment they have.

So far it seems there plan is working 110%.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

Anyone who wants to fly a plane into a building full of civilians because they are different than you is a total lunatic. Why would it be impossible to be a determined lunatic?

Perhaps you should refresh meaning of the word "lunatic" -

lunatic |ˈloōnəˌtik| noun a mentally ill person (not in technical use). • an extremely foolish or eccentric person : this lunatic just accelerated out of the side of the road. adjective mentally ill (not in technical use). • extremely foolish, eccentric, or absurd: he would be asked to acquiesce in some lunatic scheme.

Lunatics are kind of ill people, mentally ill. They walk at night while sleeping and so on. Determined lunatic sounds really stupid.

[flabasha]

"So far it seems there plan is working 110%."

If by "working 110%" you mean getting the vast majority of Taliban killed, instigating US military takeover of numerous middle Eastern countries and aligning the vast majority of Muslims against their "cause"... then yes, 9/11 has been a smashing success.

[Mister Elf]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

That sounds "unbiased" to you?

That's very biased. It's also the truth.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by flabasha

"So far it seems there plan is working 110%."

If by "working 110%" you mean getting the vast majority of Taliban killed, instigating US military takeover of numerous middle Eastern countries and aligning the vast majority of Muslims against their "cause"... then yes, 9/11 has been a smashing success.

Is that reply based on ignoring the effects they had on the US?

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

Originally Posted by Hash

Perhaps you should refresh meaning of the word "lunatic" -

lunatic |ˈloōnəˌtik| noun a mentally ill person (not in technical use). • an extremely foolish or eccentric person : this lunatic just accelerated out of the side of the road. adjective mentally ill (not in technical use). • extremely foolish, eccentric, or absurd: he would be asked to acquiesce in some lunatic scheme.

Lunatics are kind of ill people, mentally ill. They walk at night while sleeping and so on. Determined lunatic sounds really stupid.

So you don't think the idea of planning to kill thousands of civilians because they're living in a different country than you is 'extremly foolish, eccentric, or absurd"?

[baw]

Wanting to kill 3000 innocent people seems like there might be a hint of a mental illness. I don't know, maybe it is just me. I don't associate with many people wanting to kill civilians in the name of some false god.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by baw

Wanting to kill 3000 innocent people seems like there might be a hint of a mental illness. I don't know, maybe it is just me. I don't associate with many people wanting to kill civilians in the name of some false god.

I know, bush and clinton really shouldn't have done that.

[baw]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

I know, bush and clinton really shouldn't have done that.

[Kerrigan]

He's referring to the Muslims who have been killed by the US army in places like Bosnia and Iraq.

It's a case of "my enemy's enemy is my friend". People who dislike the US for being too powerful and conservative are willing to become apologists for religious militants who oppose the US. It is not really ironic nor is it strange, it's just the way things are.

[Chuckit]

I refuse to watch anything with the number 9 or the number 11 in the title. That way I avoid both frivolous documentaries about something that was covered the **** out of within a week as well as really bad sequels.

[mojo2]

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=267418



9/11 Terrorist Ziad Jarrah at flight school.

This will win all the Emmy Awards it is nominated for.

It is a great, truly great, documentary. It is better than all the rest. Everyone, no matter their politics, will find it worthwhile.

The National Geographic website has a great GUI for this "Inside 9/11" show and even if you didn't see the show itself you could 'enjoy' (it's not really enjoyable, but you know what I mean) yourself for hours going through the evidence and interviews and etc.

BIG

[budster101]

Thanks mojo2, Oncore is on Friday 7-11pm ET.

Just viewed the trailer. Wow. It makes one relive that fateful day.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by budster101

Thanks mojo2, Oncore is on Friday 7-11pm ET.

Just viewed the trailer. Wow. It makes one relive that fateful day.

[baw]

Originally Posted by mojo2

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=267418



9/11 Terrorist Ziad Jarrah at flight school.

What a dick.

[mojo2]

Episode 1: War on America

Inside 9/11: "War on America" takes viewers into the secret world of al Qaeda and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism dating back to the Soviet-Afghan War.

"War on America" opens with the dramatic 1993 World Trade Center bombing and tracks terrorist activities aimed at U.S. targets throughout the 1990s leading up to the horrific morning of September 11, 2001. With each successful attack, terrorist networks become more emboldened. The organization and the legend of Osama bin Laden grow.

Meet Osama bin Laden as a young Saudi businessman who arrives in Afghanistan to raise funds to help those hurt by the war. Follow this wealthy and privileged son of a self-made billionaire as he rises through the ranks of Islamic terrorist society and remakes himself into a mujahedeen warrior. Hear how bin Laden is schooled in the teachings of radical Palestinian leader Dr. Abdullah Yusuf Azzam as Azzam calls for violent jihad, or holy war, against all enemies of the Islamic state, including the United States, most Western nations and Israel. The extreme hatred for those outside the Islamic faith becomes the cornerstone of al Qaeda's ideology from the mid 1990s until today and is the basis of bin Laden's power.

As terrorist activities and organizations continue to increase in power and strength, "War on America" charts the response of the U.S. intelligence community and details the efforts of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the National Security Council, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and at least two U.S. presidents.

Featured in the program are interviews with terrorism experts from the intelligence community, including former CIA and FBI agents who witnessed the growing threat. Listen as U.S. government whistleblower Bodgan Dzakovic recounts how he—as part of the FAA'S "Red Team"—was able to breach airport security almost 90% of the time with very little problem in the months prior to 9/11.

Feel the frustration mount as bin Laden, time and time again, keeps a step ahead of U.S. intelligence efforts to capture him. With each new attack—the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the U.S.S. Cole—the numbers of dead and wounded grow. It becomes obvious that al Qaeda's goal is to stay under the radar, attack with small numbers and kill on a large scale.

Follow the trail and review the evidence that led former CIA Director George Tenet to remark in hindsight, "The system was blinking red… [the danger] could not get any worse."

Episode 2: Zero Hour

Inside 9/11: "Zero Hour" takes viewers inside the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and deconstructs the events on that fateful day.

It is a beautiful morning. Nathan Goldwasser is starting his usual day at work in the North Tower of the World Trade Center, as are Ed Nichols and Stanley Praimnath in the South Tower. Sheila Moody arrives at her office at the Pentagon.

Meanwhile, the 19 terrorists are boarding planes in Boston, Newark and Dulles, Virginia. They monitor the flight crews, waiting for the right moment to execute their evil plan.

At 8:14 a.m., American Airlines Flight 11 is hijacked. Relive the last precious moments as flight attendants call their supervisors on the ground to report the murders of fellow crew members. Listen as they describe the scene on board.

Then go back to the North Tower as Nathan Goldwasser hears an enormous explosion when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes just a few floors above him. The building sways.

Listen as Ed Nichols watches the tragedy unfold at the North Tower from sky lobby on the 78th floor of the South Tower. Firefighters are dispatched to the scene. But this is not a case of fighting fire; this is a mission to save as many lives as possible.

Evacuations begin in the North Tower, but, in the confusion, people in the South Tower don't know whether to leave the building or return to their desks. Stanley Praimnath makes it down to the ground lobby of the South Tower, only to be told by security that it is safe and he can return to his office. Then in what seems to be the blink of an eye, United Airlines Flight 175 crashes into the South Tower. Praimnath sees the plane as it heads toward his office. There's no longer any doubt-this is an attack on America.

"Zero Hour" then takes viewers to the Pentagon as Sheila Moody hears the roar of a plane rapidly descending. American Airlines Flight 77 hits the Pentagon and bursts into a ball of fire.

A fourth hijacking is taking place on United Airlines Flight 93. Likely targets include the White House or the Capitol building. Listen as Lyz Glick retells how her husband Jeremy and three other men planned to overtake the hijackers.

"Zero Hour" captures the horror and the heroism witnessed on September 11, 2001, and takes viewers into the last moments of those who died that day and the thousands of others who survived the tragedy.

© 1996-2005 National Geographic Society. All rights reserved.

================================================== ========

Here's a link to the interactive interviews page.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ch...teractive.html

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Honestly I am sure they would be able to point out equally nutty things the US has done to their country before 9/11. I am by no means justifying what they did though.

Even if they are a bit nuts you have to admit they are smart as hell.

They got the idea that jets full of fuel can be more effective than bombs. They got US pilots to train them how to fly planes but not take off and land (that should have red-flagged someone). They hit politically and financial important targets. Got the US economy to drop, the US dollar dropped, gas prices have soared, 300 billion has been spent on the war, the US's image is tarnished, privacy is no more, and they still can't find OBL with all the fancy and expensive equipment they have.

So far it seems there plan is working 110%.

What about the fact that there hasn't been another terrorist attack on the US since 9-11. Only an idiot would think that the terrorist have not tried to strike again, thus, something must be working.

The high gas prices are more of a correction, IMHO, than a result of OBL's terror. Oil is one of the most employed resources in the world. Also, it is limited. Americans are using more and more of it. Americans pay a relatively low price for gas when compared to most other nations.
High Demand + Limited Supply = High Prices (correct 95% of the time, but I don't see this as an exception).

I have privacy. And I'm not trying to hide anything either. As long as you obey the law there is no need for anyone to fear. But, for the most part what you do in your own home or on your private property isn't being monitored. Maybe you live in a glass house.

The USA's image was tarnished way before the aftermath of 9-11. US embassies were getting bombed in Africa during the Clinton years and in retaliation, Clinton launched a missile strike on a pharmaceutical factory. Well it turns out that the factory had nothing to do with the the embassy bombings and in a split second a persons livelihood was gone for no reason other than Clinton's trying to divert attention away from the Lewinsky and purgery scandals. Convenient enough. The case is still in the court system being argued. I had family in the middle east during 9-11, and they told me that there were many Arabs cheering and dancing in the street once they got word of the devestation. So they were celebrating America's anguish, way before any American retaliation. That implies that the hatred had already manifested itself. So, yeah, USA bashing was around way before you think, proably before you were born. Furthurmore, when you are the best, it's easy to hate you. Human Nature. Plus, to be great, is to be misunderstood, in the words of Emerson.

On not yet finding OBL: Unless, you are from the future, your thoughts are premature. It's not over yet. It may take many years, but that's not a bad thing. War is not an environment where everything goes as planned.

Economy: Yes the averages dropped after 9-11, but we've rebounded nicely. So any damage was relatively shortlived, considering this was the largest attack on US soil. On September 10, 2001 Dow Jones was at 9604. Today it is at 10,519.

You are right in saying that the 9-11 terrorists were bright, but only in their execution of the plan. Nothing else. Only a lunatic would believe that if he killed many people (including himself) then he would be greeted by 72 hot chicks who all happen to be VIRGINS. That is the biggest load of bs i've ever come accrss. I'm sorry but that's crazy. Radicalism uses religion to manipulate.

Lastly, try to have a little more hope.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

I know, bush and clinton really shouldn't have done that.

Man SWF, you really need to know what you are talking about before you get all nellie on us.

BTW Einstein, Gas prices started going up in 2000. Well before 9/11 and the war.

[Hash]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

So you don't think the idea of planning to kill thousands of civilians because they're living in a different country than you is 'extremly foolish, eccentric, or absurd"?

Think about it this way: you can't accomplish those highly sophisticated, meticulously planned, implemented without a single error (or with a single error - Pittsburgh plane) terrorist acts with a team of mentally ill people.

[porieux]

...

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by porieux

If the show accepted the bin laden theory at face value then it was definitely not unbiased.

Hey,

I'm just curious. What other theories are there?

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

What I don't get is why anybody would want that many virgins... I mean... I've been with a few virgins and ...eh.. I mean it's great if you're in love, but it isn't exactly easy or .. well, anyone who's deflowered someone knows what I mean.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

What I don't get is why anybody would want that many virgins... I mean... I've been with a few virgins and ...eh.. I mean it's great if you're in love, but it isn't exactly easy or .. well, anyone who's deflowered someone knows what I mean.

hahaha. Funny as hell..

[RonnieoftheRose]

That's one of the reasons Islam is so gay. It's hard enough putting up with one woman for 10 years (or even a month). Imagine putting up with 72 women for eternity. Think of how many lies, contradictory signals, shoes and fake headaches a man would have to put up with. No wonder Arab men bang each other. Bloddy inbreds /racism ends

[flabasha]

That photo is amazing. Shows the depth of evil.

To live with, be helped by, and laugh with people that you are, in essence, planning to kill shows just how much mental programming can override any humanity in someone.

It would be interesting to know if any of those terrorists ever ONCE thought "I wonder if killing thousands of helpless civilians is the right thing to do?"

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

What I don't get is why anybody would want that many virgins... I mean... I've been with a few virgins and ...eh.. I mean it's great if you're in love, but it isn't exactly easy or .. well, anyone who's deflowered someone knows what I mean.

Terrorists are really health-conscious about STDs.

[finboy]

From the interview page linked above, it says that you can hear "expert commentaries about the policies and events that led up to the disaster."

No slant there, eh?

How about calling it a "terrorist attack" instead of a disaster? Words have meanings. Stargate Atlantis is a disaster, 9/11 was a terrorist attack. They could also call it mass murder, an act of war, an atrocity, etc. But it wasn't a disaster. Subtle, but I'm sure it was on purpose.

Next, the "policies ... that led up to the disaster". "Led up to" implying causation. Here we go again -- it's like saying that a rape victim was dressed for it or something.

Eventually I'll watch all of the supporting materials online, but they don't get off to a good start with sh*tty wording.

[PacHead]

Those terrorist lowlifes and cheap ass terrorist bastards, they couldn't even afford a $400 hooker so they rent some lame porn movie on the motel cable system. They spend their last day on this earth wanking off to porn movies, preparing themselves for the slitting of the throats of stewardesses and passengers the following morning.

The USA had a few opportunities to take out Bin Laden earlier but it was called off because a swingset for terrorist kids showed up on the sat photo ? Great priorities we had back then.

Inside 9-11 is the best documentary on the subject so far. It doesn't lie, unlike certain other "documentary movies", and it is quite informative.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by finboy

From the interview page linked above, it says that you can hear "expert commentaries about the policies and events that led up to the disaster."

No slant there, eh?

How about calling it a "terrorist attack" instead of a disaster? Words have meanings. Stargate Atlantis is a disaster, 9/11 was a terrorist attack. They could also call it mass murder, an act of war, an atrocity, etc. But it wasn't a disaster. Subtle, but I'm sure it was on purpose.

Next, the "policies ... that led up to the disaster". "Led up to" implying causation. Here we go again -- it's like saying that a rape victim was dressed for it or something.

Eventually I'll watch all of the supporting materials online, but they don't get off to a good start with sh*tty wording.

And people say I'M tweaked a bit high!

Hey! No offense finboy. I'm just sayin...

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Those terrorist lowlifes and cheap ass terrorist bastards, they couldn't even afford a $400 hooker so they rent some lame porn movie on the motel cable system. They spend their last day on this earth wanking off to porn movies, preparing themselves for the slitting of the throats of stewardesses and passengers the following morning.

The USA had a few opportunities to take out Bin Laden earlier but it was called off because a swingset for terrorist kids showed up on the sat photo ? Great priorities we had back then.

Inside 9-11 is the best documentary on the subject so far. It doesn't lie, unlike certain other "documentary movies", and it is quite informative.

Hey PacHead, I found ANOTHER documentary on 9/11 that is REALLY good (not QUITE as good as "Inside 9/11" but ALMOST!) It's a Frontline show, maybe you already saw it, I hadn't until last night. It's called, "The Man Who Knew."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/

You can watch it ONLINE! Plus they have extra info at the site. I guarantee you'll find it rewarding. And frustrating.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I refuse to watch anything with the number 9 or the number 11 in the title. That way I avoid both frivolous documentaries about something that was covered the **** out of within a week as well as really bad sequels.

Sometimes you can't see the whole picture until time passes and you gain more objectivity. Also, sometimes after a few months/years go by new information becomes known which provides a clearer picture.

Both are true in this case.

[porieux]

...

[Kerrigan]

[As I get older and more boring I become more conservative] Apparently the two biggest factors in the current price increase are Saudi pumping capabilities and increased Chinese consumption. That Saudi Arabia is having difficulties increasing production and might have actually peaked has nothing to do with America. Chinese consumption of oil is also unrelated to 9/11 and vietna-- er, Iraq. [/conservative]