[macintologist]

I recently got into a tiny accident with a pole.. the pole isn't damaged at all, but it hit my car and I caused minor dent damage on the body next to the front left headlight I will have to get it fixed even though the car is still drivable. Will this go on my driving record, since nobody else was involved and nobody was hurt? Or do insurance companies not care and they just want to know if you damaged a car in the first place?

[Eug]

Any accident or moving violation will go on your record, if the insurance company finds out about it. If it's a moving violation and the police are involved, then your insurance can find out about it since it's on your record. However, if it's an accident and the police aren't involved, one way around it is not to report it to the insurance company, and to get the thing fixed out of your own pocket.

[macintologist]

It happened on private property, does that make a difference?

[Eug]

IANAL, but AFAIK, no it doesn't make a difference. It was still an accident, and you were at fault.

Now, there's no guarantee they'd raise your insurance rates for your first at-fault accident, but if you have another accident or moving violation within 3 years, you will likely see your insurance rates go up.

How do points affect your insurance rates??

[peeb]

I'm confused that you describe this as a moving violation - that's a legal term for a type of citation. Were the police involved? It doesn't sound like they would be interested, since you didn't damage another car and no one was hurt, which is their usual criteria.
I would seriously consider not reporting it to your insurance carrier though.

[climber]

Ask your insurance agent. They will be able to answer the question thoroughly.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by peeb 

It doesn't sound like they would be interested, since you didn't damage another car and no one was hurt, which is their usual criteria.

Not true. For example, a minor moving violation such as speeding just 10 miles over the limit is more than enough to get your insurance company interested.

Originally Posted by climber 

Ask your insurance agent. They will be able to answer the question thoroughly.

If you tell your insurance company, it will be on your record, even if you end up not claiming it.

The only "safe" way to ask the insurance company is anonymously.

[MacosNerd]

If a police report was filed or that some filed a a claim to their insurance company then it will go on your record.

Basically there's only three ways for an insurance company to find out about a moving violation or an accident.
First is the police. Here in Massachusetts the moving violation tickets get reported to a rating bureau which then notifies the insurance company.

The second way is for someone to file a claim, (for an accident)

The final way is for you to file a claim (for an accident).

[Eug]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

If a police report was filed or that some filed a a claim to their insurance company then it will go on your record.

Basically there's only three ways for an insurance company to find out about a moving violation or an accident.
First is the police. Here in Massachusetts the moving violation tickets get reported to a rating bureau which then notifies the insurance company.

The second way is for someone to file a claim, (for an accident)

The final way is for you to file a claim (for an accident).

The police don't have to be involved, and a claim doesn't need to be filed for it to go on your record.

If you call your insurance company and tell them about the accident and don't file a claim, it will likely still go on your record (unless you call them anonymously), but YMMV.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Not true. For example, a minor moving violation such as speeding just 10 miles over the limit is more than enough to get your insurance company interested.

Please read posts before you reply to them.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Please read posts before you reply to them.

I did. Your statement is wrong.

As for accidents, see my previous posts.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

I recently got into a tiny accident with a pole.. the pole isn't damaged at all, but it hit my car and I caused minor dent damage on the body next to the front left headlight I will have to get it fixed even though the car is still drivable. Will this go on my driving record, since nobody else was involved and nobody was hurt? Or do insurance companies not care and they just want to know if you damaged a car in the first place?

If there were no other vehicles involved, and the police weren't there (typically they do not come onto private property unless someone is injured), then the only way for your insurance company to know is if you tell them.

If you fix the damage without filing a claim, then you have nothing to worry about. If you were not issued a violation from a police officer, you have nothing to worry about.

[greenamp]

If a police report was filed it will be on your driving record. Totally depends on your insurance company as to whether or not they will choose to raise your rates in response.

[Eug]

P.S. Do you have any other accidents or moving violations? And how much is the damage?

Cuz if you have ANY other accidents or moving violations in the last several years and the damage isn't too costly, then I'd most definitely not tell the insurance company (assuming you haven't already told the police).

In fact, even if the repairs did end up costing a fair amount and you have no other problems on your record, I'd still strongly consider not telling the insurance company (assuming you haven't already told the police). The reason is that even if your rates don't go up now if you make a claim, they can go up dramatically next year when you get that minor speeding ticket or something. And remember, when they go up, they don't just go up for one year. They go up for several years.

[Atomic Rooster]

ghporter will know. Wait for him to jump in.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I did. Your statement is wrong.

No, you didn't read it. If you had, you wouldn't have gone off half cocked about insurance companies when I was talking about the police. My statement is correct - you'd know that if you'd read the post.

[Randman]

Next time, speed up before you hit the pole. Better chance to take it out.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by Randman 

Next time, speed up before you hit the pole. Better chance to take it out.

Read his post again. He says the post hit him. So I say sue the post for damages.

"the pole isn't damaged at all, but it hit my car"

[Eug]

Originally Posted by peeb 

No, you didn't read it. If you had, you wouldn't have gone off half cocked about insurance companies when I was talking about the police. My statement is correct - you'd know that if you'd read the post.

So, either you're backtracking again, or else you were misleading in your original post... you know, the one where you mentioned insurance companies in a thread about insurance companies.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Had the post been drinking?

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So, either you're backtracking again, or else you were misleading in your original post... you know, the one where you mentioned insurance companies in a thread about insurance companies.

Eug, I'm a big hearted person, so I'll walk you through the play-by-play this once. After that though, you'll have to start reading posts on your own.

Here we go - watch carefully:

Originally Posted by peeb 

I'm confused that you describe this as a moving violation - that's a legal term for a type of citation. Were the police involved? It doesn't sound like they would be interested, since you didn't damage another car and no one was hurt, which is their usual criteria.
I would seriously consider not reporting it to your insurance carrier though.

Notice that the first paragraph is about the POLICE. Replay "Were the police involved? It doesn't sound like they would be interested"

Now, you jump in, without reading it properly:

Originally Posted by Eug 

Not true. For example, a minor moving violation such as speeding just 10 miles over the limit is more than enough to get your insurance company interested.

Now, it's obvious here that you assume I'm talking about insurance companies, because you haven't read the post. You know that they say about the word assume, Eug.

I just don't think it's too much to ask that you read posts before replying to them. If you don't though, don't make it worse by then accusing others to cover up.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

It happened on private property, does that make a difference?

How about you tell us FINALLY if the police was involved or not.

Everyone is going nuts here because THAT piece of information would make all the difference.

-t

[climber]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If you call your insurance company and tell them about the accident and don't file a claim, it will likely still go on your record (unless you call them anonymously), but YMMV.

Not according to my State Farm agent. He said the rates would only be affected if I actually filed a claim. He even gave me the scoop on how much and how long my rates would go up. I was then able to decide how to proceed.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

How about you tell us FINALLY if the police was involved or not.

Everyone is going nuts here because THAT piece of information would make all the difference.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by climber 

Not according to my State Farm agent. He said the rates would only be affected if I actually filed a claim. He even gave me the scoop on how much and how long my rates would go up. I was then able to decide how to proceed.

Yeah, every insurance company is different. For example, I have a policy that states that my rates will not be affected if I have a single at-fault accident claim. However, I only got that policy after many years with a clean record. Others may see rates go up with a single at-fault accident claim.

Furthermore, I do know of others who have had speeding tickets in previous years, and have had their rates go up when they reported an accident even though they didn't actually file a claim.

Originally Posted by peeb 

Now, it's obvious here that you assume I'm talking about insurance companies, because you haven't read the post. You know that they say about the word assume, Eug.

I guess I assumed you were talking about insurance companies because you mentioned insurance companies in your original post, in a thread about insurance companies. Hmmm... Go figure.

[climber]

Perhaps you are having a bad day Eug? I originally wrote "Ask your insurance AGENT".

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by climber 

Not according to my State Farm agent. He said the rates would only be affected if I actually filed a claim. He even gave me the scoop on how much and how long my rates would go up. I was then able to decide how to proceed.

Your State Farm agent seems to be the nicest insurance agent in the world.

I have heard reports before that insurance companies would put incidents on file (and raise rates) even if those incidents did NOT result in a claim.

So a pretty sure way to screw yourself is to let them know.

Edit: Ok, I see what you did there: AGENT vs. insurance REP.

-t

[Eug]

Originally Posted by climber 

Perhaps you are having a bad day Eug? I originally wrote "Ask your insurance AGENT".

And I responded that to be safe, you should only ask your insurance agent anonymously. See turtle's post (and my post above).

EDIT:

What's the difference? By agent do you mean an insurance broker or something? Cuz the only agent I've ever dealt with for car insurance is the person on the phone from the insurance company.

EDIT again:

It looks to be a grey area...

From Wikipedia:

Though not an absolute separation; an agent is an insurance company's representative by way of agent-principal legal custom. The agent's primary alliance is with the insurance carrier, not the insurance buyer. A broker generally has no contractual agreements with insurance carriers and relies on common or direct methods of perfecting business transactions with insurance carriers. This can have a significant beneficial impact on insurance negotiations obtained through a broker.

Biased comment from a broker:

The Agent
An agent represents a company’s interest and is compensated for that interest. If it is like this everywhere, a book of current business is given to the agent and he or she is told to go see them and introduce yourself, then when you are done there go knock on the doors next to them and across the street. “Create the need" or better yet “Scare them into the need" is the catch phrase I believe when it should be “Take care of the need." By that I mean take care of your people and they will take care of you. People do need to be aware of their needs but I have been around to many marketing schemes that were made to scare the client.
Another important point to be made is how many families is that agent feeding? More than likely that agent is not only feeding his or her own family but his sales managers’ and district managers’ and so on and so forth. So the next time you see an agent coming ask him how many families are being fed if you were to buy from him.

The Broker
A broker represents many companies with no centralized interest or compensation. The broker in turn is also compensated for their time and effort by the company that gets the business but that is just it, the company that gets the business. Whether you go to company A or B, you the client have the choice based on recommendations made by he broker.
The broker has the capability of finding the right mix for a client, for example, the client’s needs and budget. One company might come back with a mix of products at “X" amount of money a month. This option may be out of the clients reach due to budget constraints, well now the broker can switch to another company to find the most viable option.

If that's the case, I'd still be hesitant to mention this to the agent, although I can see where you're coming from.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by climber 

Perhaps you are having a bad day Eug? I originally wrote "Ask your insurance AGENT".

He's having a hard time reading posts before replying to them today.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug 

And I responded that to be safe, you should only ask your insurance agent anonymously. See turtle's post (and my post above).

EDIT:

What's the difference? By agent do you mean an insurance broker or something? Cuz the only agent I've ever dealt with for car insurance is the person on the phone from the insurance company.

I think he means the difference between a broker and an agent.

Me personally, I wouldn't call a broker an agent. An agent to me implies that he works FOR the insurance company, and not just based on a sales commission.

In that sense, I would NOT talk to an agent about this.
And honestly, a broker might not know all those details.

-t

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by climber 

Not according to my State Farm agent. He said the rates would only be affected if I actually filed a claim. He even gave me the scoop on how much and how long my rates would go up. I was then able to decide how to proceed.

Winner. insurances will make you pay for claims (or violations reported by the police). Depending on whether you had a claim before (or a violation) and on how much the claim was for, you might want to pay for the repair if this is not much.
I first claim/violation does not affect your rate (in general, providing you did not run over someone or something like that).

[Randman]

Quoting from Wikipedia usually means you're about to lose a fight.

Anyway, if you're a serial pole hitter (or hittee, then you're likely to have higher premiums). If you have a clean record up to the pole and keep one after, then you should be ok.

Besides, till 25 or so, you're facked on imsurance anyways.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Randman 

Quoting from Wikipedia usually means you're about to lose a fight.

Anyway, if you're a serial pole hitter (or hittee, then you're likely to have higher premiums). If you have a clean record up to the pole and keep one after, then you should be ok.

Besides, till 25 or so, you're facked on imsurance anyways.

Age isn't the basis, years of driving experience is (at least in Cal). Nine years is the first big break, which typically happens when someone turns 25 since most get their license at 16.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Age isn't the basis, years of driving experience is (at least in Cal). Nine years is the first big break, which typically happens when someone turns 25 since most get their license at 16.

With rental cars, years of experience doesn't matter.

Under 25, you get high insurance cost (even in CA).

If you're 26, and you just got your license, you'd get the lower cost.

-t

[ghporter]

Atomic Rooster has a lot more faith in my knowledge than is warranted. I had a "moving violation" accident that didn't involve any other vehicles, but DID involve damage to a median barrier. It was more serious than macintologist's accident—my car was totaled, and the median barrier posts were destroyed for about 100 feet. It DID go on my record, and got my license suspended for a month for "speed too fast for conditions." That was when I was 16, and if you don't think I think about it frequently, you're wrong. Important points here: My car was totaled. The median barrier (state property) was destroyed. The state trooper (yes, I did it up right!) cited me for going "too fast for conditions" only because I didn't fess up to going WAY too fast.

I think the final answer here is: "MORE DETAILS, MACINTOLOGIST! If on private property, without a police citation and without an insurance claim, it basically didn't happen. If there's even a warning issued, it DID happen and the insurance company will find out about it. In which case it's better to be up front and not look like you're hiding something.

[Eug]

Here's a quote from the horses mouth:

TD Insurance Meloche Monnex

If you are in an accident and don't make a claim, your insurance premiums won't increase.

Not true. If your insurance company finds out you were in an accident, they can raise your rates accordingly - whether you made a claim or not. You may not have told your insurance provider about the accident, but the other person in the collision may be filing a claim. His/her insurance company may tell your insurance company about the accident and they can raise both your rates.

Originally Posted by Randman 

Quoting from Wikipedia usually means you're about to lose a fight.

Just asking. To me, an agent has always been that guy that works for the insurance company. When I want to deal with a middleman to get the best deal, I deal with a broker not the agent from a specific insurance company.

I've never dealt with a broker for car insurance, but have for life and disability (and my mortgage).

Dunno if it's just semantics or not. Is the State Farm agent an independent from the company? Cuz if he isn't, I wouldn't tell him anything about an unreported accident.

Besides, till 25 or so, you're facked on imsurance anyways.

Depends. My insurance was cheap when I was in my early 20s, cuz I had many years of accident-free and moving violation-free driving under my belt... Or not under my belt as it were... As a teen, I was pulled over once for a non-moving violation because I was not wearing my seat belt.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If your insurance company finds out you were in an accident, they can raise your rates accordingly - whether you made a claim or not. You may not have told your insurance provider about the accident, but the other person in the collision may be filing a claim. His/her insurance company may tell your insurance company about the accident and they can raise both your rates.

The key here is the other party would have damage and contact their insurance carrier to protect their property. In this case no such damage occurred.

I do not see a problem in contacting the company and posing a hypothetical question about making a claim and the consequences on your rates. They do not need to know any details and as such would not have any basis to raise the rates.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Dunno if it's just semantics or not. Is the State Farm agent an independent from the company? Cuz if he isn't, I wouldn't tell him anything about an unreported accident.

The State Farm agent I do business with owns his local office. I think it is pretty much like any other franchise. As far as agency or broker, not much difference. You could be the "agent" of either party. This is done in Real Estate every day. My guess is in this case he is acting as an agent for the larger State Farm Insurance company, but when he stops acting in my best interest, I will find someone else. That would include answers to questions like this. Perhaps you need to find someone better yourself.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by climber 

The key here is the other party would have damage and contact their insurance carrier to protect their property. In this case no such damage occurred.

Actually the key here is just that the insurance company found out about it, not how the company found out about it. This can occur simply by the policy holder calling and asking about the situation, with specifics provided.

I do not see a problem in contacting the company and posing a hypothetical question about making a claim and the consequences on your rates. They do not need to know any details and as such would not have any basis to raise the rates.

I agree. If you are going to call your insurance provider, then don't give any specifics... which is kinda hard if you're asking about a specific situation. That's why I suggested an anonymous call.

The State Farm agent I do business with owns his local office. I think it is pretty much like any other franchise. As far as agency or broker, not much difference. You could be the "agent" of either party. This is done in Real Estate every day. My guess is in this case he is acting as an agent for the larger State Farm Insurance company, but when he stops acting in my best interest, I will find someone else. That would include answers to questions like this. Perhaps you need to find someone better yourself.

Which is why I deal with brokers when I feel the need. I don't like being locked to a single company.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

With rental cars, years of experience doesn't matter.

Under 25, you get high insurance cost (even in CA).

If you're 26, and you just got your license, you'd get the lower cost.

-t

That is rental cars, not your typical auto insurance. Also, if you have a car and your own insurance, you can opt not to purchase the insurance from the rental car company as you are already covered.

Though, I often would tell my clients to pick up the damage waiver. Usually it is inexpensive, and if something happens to the car, even being hit in a parking lot, you do not have to worry about paying your collision deductible.

[macintologist]

No the police never got involved or anything.

[peeb]

So there is no 'moving violation'. The cost of the repair is likely less than what you'll get dinged on by the insurance, so just keep the whole thing to your self and suck up the repair cost. No one has any involvement in it unless you bring them in at this point.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

No the police never got involved or anything.

Then as long as you do not file a claim, you have nothing to worry about.

[Eug]

Yikes! Speaking of young drivers and insurance...

Some 17 year-old guy got caught doing 239 km/h in an 80 zone. The police charged him with street racing and careless driving. If convicted, if/when he gets his licence back, it will cost him $22000/year for insurance. Excellent, and glad nobody was hurt.

P.S. The idiot was surprised when he was pulled over. He thought the police's flashing lights were EMS.

The sad part is that the yahoos on the car and bike forums are complaining about the new street racing laws... because the consequences are more severe now if you do 50 over the speed limit.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yikes! Speaking of young drivers and insurance...

Some 17 year-old guy got caught doing 239 km/h in an 80 zone. The police charged him with street racing and careless driving. If convicted, if/when he gets his licence back, it will cost him $22000/year for insurance. Excellent, and glad nobody was hurt.

Which pretty much guarantees that he will be driving either w/o insurance, or on someone else's insurance.

-t